Myrish swan

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About Myrish swan

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  1. Create your Westerosi house

    Name: House Cougar Sigil: The Cougar’s House colors are black and scarlet. For their House sigil, the Cougars adopted a mythical beast with the face of an aging but still comely woman attached to the body of a fearsome shadow cat. House motto: Ours in the kinky Unofficial motto: The Cougar ladies like ‘em young Location: Somewhere south of kings landing, where the weather is hottest very late in the day Originally hailing from Dorne, the Cougars follow the traditional custom of equal primogeniture. Yet they are unique in that over the years, they developed a system of inheritance based on matriarchal principles—the house, lands, and title will be given to the eldest female child; should the Lady produce no female heirs, the family castle, lands, and title will be granted to an aunt or the closest living female relative. The history of the Cougars is eventful and drenched in myth. Word has it that the House founder, a shadowy figure known as Lady Demi, was in fact a witch who employed a number of arcane rituals and spells to maintain her youthful beauty even in advanced age. Whatever the truth of these rumors, Lady Demi’s open contempt for her aging, paunchy, balding husband, not to mention her habit of employing scantily clad young men to act as her cupbearers, stewards, and personal body servants, did much to encourage the rumors that would led to her blackened posthumous reputation. When her aging, corpulent, and increasingly balding husband Lord Samwell Tarley I died in mysterious circumstances during a hunting expedition, it led many to whisper of foul play. Such whispers only increased when Lady Demi took a sudden interest in Devan Kettleblack, a lusty, black haired young man of one and twenty; rumored to be the illegitimate son of a local baker. She proceeded to endow him with lands, gold, and a knighthood, for reasons that to this day remain unclear. However, in doing so, some whisper that Lady Demi started a family tradition. It is customary for the ruling females of the Cougar line to express unguarded interest in numerous young men, a trait which increases dramatically after these women reach the age of forty. The fact that lady’s of the cougar house inevitably marry to produce heirs does not deter them from surrounding themselves with dozens of handsome young men. This custom has led to an unofficial motto of sorts: “the cougar lady’s like ‘em young.”
  2. Hey just wanted to say its nice to see someone else who has the same feelings about Tyrion as I do. I love the guy, but I think a lot of viewers don't realize just how 'truly' flawed he is. Thanks for being a big champion of this POV.

  3. Stannis is a righteous man according to GRRM

    This is actually the best summation of Stannis I've ever heard. I agree 150 percent... the man's not a hypocrite per say, but he sure is willing to compromise when it benefits him. Yeah... Davos is his good angel, Mel his bad angel. (Though I realize that this is simplifying the matter a whole lot.) The issue I'm curious about is what is going to happen if (or when?) Stan loses both of these advisors. Contrary to the beliefs of many, I think Davos may well be dead. And judging by their interactions in ASOS, who's to say that Mel will not abandon Stannis for a far more likely Azor Azai candidate, Jon. Where will Stan be if or when this happens? I say he may well be a broken man, and one willing to do anything to regain what he feels is his rightful title. Thus, sacrificing a kid with Kings blood to wake the stone dragons may well become his last resort. And it keeps occuring to me that there is one little girl hanging around who, through her father, does indeed have some "kings blood" in her... You must admit, it would be a striking end for ADWD to end with Stan burning his daughter. Or to end with a Shireen POV chapter that ends with daddy throwing her on the fire at mommy's request. After all, i did read in the reviewe that ADWD ends with a "shocking scene." Hmmm. Re: Stannis going to the wall-- this is interesting, because its unclear to me whether he did it out of pure duty or desperation. I mean, at this point, where else does he have to go? He has decisively lost at Blackwater, and soon Dragonstone will fall. So he goes north to gather support. He orignially urges Jon Snow to take over Winterfell, so he can get the northern bannermen to follow him. Was it really riteousness that led Stan to the wall, or simply ambition and pragmatism again
  4. First, I'm sorry you feel I am personally attacking GRRM as a sexist pig. Actually, I never meant to say anything like "sexist pig," ... honestly, I didn't even think it. However, you are right that my comments were too personal. I said that GRRM loathed a certain type of woman, and that was unfair. However, I think it's fair to say (not as a fact, but as an opinion) that GRRM frequently portrays a certain kind of woman negatively. (I'll get to why in a moment. Contrary to your posts, I do have plenty of evidence.) I am speaking generally here, but my post was actually pretty specific. And, contrary to your claims, I actually do have specific examples from the text that made me feel this way. It's honestly not my desire to find double standards and sexist tendencies in these books. (And for the record, I think pointing out double standards and sexist attitudes within a text is clearly different from saying someone acts in a sexist/ misogynistic manner.) I will address a few of your specific points, and try to clarify the main point of my argument below. Yes, but I said a woman going against even moderately decent men. Joffrey is a straight up scumbag. Its not like with Cersei, when a woman is challenging men that the author gives every appearance of relating to. Yes, and this is fine. I have taken pains to separate the sexism of Westeros in general with certain sexist tendencies of the text itself. That is, the way certain characters are written, and certain double standards that crop up throughout the series. I am not trying to “discount” characters such as Asha, Brienne, or Margary. However, I do have reasons for contending that the presentation of these characters actually supports the point I was making. And though the tone of my second post here may have been a bit shrill, I think its unfair of you to more or less disregard the argument I was actually making, and claim that everything I was saying was part of a desire to portray the author of these books as a sexist pig. My specific point was that Cersei was the only married woman to specifically stand up to her husband, challenge the patriarchy in various ways, and struggle to take various “male” privileges herself. IMO, though it is numerous other issues that make her a villain, her overt efforts to take power/ assume male privileges, are portrayed very negatively; either as signs of arrogance, stupidity on her part, or merely evidence that she was “unnatural,” an emasculating bitch. Furthermore, though there are other women to “challenge the patriarchy” take on traditionally male roles, etc., it seemed that none of these women were married, or that their husbands were dead, like dany. Finally, I couldn’t help but notice that all of the “good” unconventionally feminine/ powerful women never, ever resented the patriarchal culture. This is significant, since, imo, Cersei is portrayed fairly negatively for resenting the treatment she has received. IMO, she is portrayed as a. self- deluded (that she was capable to be a lord like Tywin), b. whiny, c. angry/ bitter, d. unnatural (going hand in hand with the awful, and, imo, completely sexist cliché of her actually wanting to have a penis in AFFC), and e. just annoying. It seemed significant that the “good” female characters never really have these same feelings though, in the intensely patriarchal culture they are living in, it would seem as natural as breathing to do so. The exception is two brief “its unfair that girls can’t fight” comments made by Arya in the first book. When compared to Cersei’s constant thoughts that she should have been a man, is being mistreated due to her sex, etc, this seems significant. So, no, I am not trying to discount Arya, Brienne and Asha. I actually think that Arya and Brienne are quite well developed, believable characters. (Asha is far, far less so, imo, but I won’t get into that.) I’m not trying to “disqualify” them or anything. However, the fact is that their unmarried status directly supports the point I’m making. My point is that Cersei (imo) is constantly portrayed as stupid, arrogant, and/ or emasculating and annoying for taking on the traditional male role or breaking tradition. Her displaying her signet along with Robert for Joff’s shield is a good example of this, as is her choice to have Joff married with the Lanister cloak. (And I know, people are objecting this in part due to the incest rumors.) Generally, such actions are portrayed negatively, and Cersei is insulted and criticized for them. (From this thread, you’d think she did something seriously wrong by being known as “Cersei Lanister,” or by her choice to use her lion signet. Generally, this is said to be pure arrogance on her part.) And, IMO, it is portrayed that way in the book. All of Cersei’s vaguely feminist rebellions are betrayed as either stupid, arrogant, or, very frequently, as unnatural, and as vaguely (or even overtly) insulting to her husband. The only other married woman we look at in depth is Cat, and she never, ever does such things. She generally submits to her husband in all-important matters, and considers herself a stark, adopting Ned’s name and many of his customs. So, the reason why I’m “discounting” Arya, Brienne, and Asha in this argument is because they are all unmarried. Also, the fact is that Cersei, one of the most hated villains in the series, is frequently portrayed as resenting the gender standards of her culture. Now, I know that a valid explanation for this (I’m guessing that you see things this way, but I can’t say for sure) is that Cersei is both Villain and victim; that she is portrayed as evil, but that she really has fallen victim to the gender inequalities of Westeros. Again, this is a perfectly valid interpretation, but I respectfully disagree (which I think I can do in this case without calling the author a sexist pig.) Cersei’s resentments of the gender roles of Westeros and her thoughts that she is should have been a man/ son are frequently cited with disgust and scorn by posters on this board. (I can recall one poster saying that Cersei deserved more than the slap Robert gave her, and if she would have been born a man as she wanted, she would have been killed by now, that she was a bitch because she thought that “no man in Westeros was man enough for her, and that she wanted to be a guy herself, etc.) She is portrayed as hateful and resentful. And, most of all, the positively portrayed women who subvert gender roles simply do not resent the double standards of their culture, or feel they are being treated unfairly due to their sex. Asha comes from the intensely sexist Iron Islands, yet never resents the mistreatment she encounters as a female. In her POV chapter in AFFC, her uncle basically points out to her that no one will follow her because she’s a woman. Even at this moment, highly significantly, she never, ever thinks “this is unfair, if I were a guy they’d be treating me better.” Despite the fact that in this situation, it would make all the sense in the world to think such a thing. Similarly, Brienne mostly thinks of herself as a freak/ unnatural. The only place where she gets angry is when all of the dudes are trying to seduce/ rape her for money. And even at this point, she does not think “this is all because I’m a girl, if I were a guy they’d treat me better,” Instead, she gets angry that they are not being true knights or whatever. And Arya does have two comments in AGOT how its unfair being a girl, but after that, nothing. Furthermore, her thoughts in that book are mostly about how she can’t live up to Sansa, everyone likes Sansa better, etc. Somewhat different from Cersei’s thoughts that she would be treated better if she were Tywin’s son, etc. Furthermore, in the later books I cannot think of other instances where Arya resents the gender inequalities of her society. Also, though this does not go with my point, I thought I’d mention—though Arya and Brienne do go against the tradition that girls can’t fight, I believe that GRRM portrays women who fight very positively throughout the series. What he often portrays negatively are women who want power for its own sake. Cersei is shown as doing this, and it is shown as unnatural and evil that she is willing to challenge Robert, Ned Stark, and Tyrion in her quest for power. It seems that GRRM always relates far, far more to the men in these little contests of power. (Ned, Robert, and especially Tyrion are portrayed with far more sympathy than Cesei. However, if one looks at the facts, Robert and Tyrion are, prior to AFFC, not much better than Cersei, morally speaking. However, for various reasons—that I could get in to, if you want me to—it seems that Robert, Tyrion, and Ned are portrayed as far more positively than Cersei, and as “the good guys” in their contests of wits.) Honestly, I was not trying to “discount” Margary (or Brienne or Arya, for that matter.) However, I was just saying that she did not refute the point I was making. Though I’m sure Margary can be seen as a good character and a strong woman, she does not overtly challenger the gender inequalities of Westeros or display unconventional pride in her own house/ heritage the way Cersei does. Of course, there are all different ways to be strong, and I can appreciate this. There is nothing wrong with appearing to conform in many ways to the female gender role while trying to get things accomplished in other ways, as Margary does. However, I do not think Margary is a good example to refute my claim that Cersei is portrayed negatively for overtly unconventional, “feminist” actions such as her use of her own last name, signet, or house colors. Margary would have never used the house Tyrell colors at her wedding. And in AFFC, she is portrayed as far more intelligent than Cersei for this fact. Honestly , in AFFC, Margary is very much Cersei’s foil, but I’ll won’t bother getting into that.
  5. Yeah, but Tyrion also thinks Cersei is "unnatural" for the way she treats her husband, and he doesn't have any sort of problem with the Lanisters. In fact, I recall Tyrion thinking that, since she appears to want power and independence so much, Cersei must truly want to have a penis. This insult, so commonly thrown at ambitious women, was, I assumed, the product of a guy raised in the sexist environment of Westeros. However, in AFFC, we all learn that Cersei really does want a penis. Cersei is presented as a harpy for not doing so. Or, at least, not pretending to do so, and giving Robert "the benefit of the doubt" or whatever. Her refusal to forgive Robert his slip up on the wedding night is supposed to demonstrate Cersei's irrational, vengeful, and generally "unnatural" character, one that is proud, loveless, and will go to any heights for revenge. Though hard to respect, it is implied (and has been explicitly stated by dozens of posters on this forum) that Cersei shoudl have "made the best" of her marriage to Robert; been kind to him and submit to him in the important things, as Cat did with Ned. Even GRRM said in an interview that Robert is "basically a good guy, in a lot of ways." I guess the hitting and marital rape do not disqualify him from being "basically good." :rolleyes: Margery Tyrell proves my point. She is a. not ambitious for herself. Everything she's done her family has put her up to. b. Never appears to resent or challenge the patriarchal customs of Westeros. In fact, in AFFC, Margary, who flatters and cajoles her new husband, never failing to play the traditional women's role, is portrayed as far, far smarter than CerseI, who tries to "play the man's role herself. Margary looks out for herself and her family, flatters and does favors for her husband in an effort to hold sway over him, however, she does basically care about Tomen, and wants to do what is best for him. It is portrayed that this is exactly what Cersei should have done with Robert, if she had been smart enough to play her cards right. The fact that she didn't is portrayed as yet more proof that Cersei is stupid, stupid, stupid. Being a woman, her strong desire for power for itself makes her unworthy of wield it. (This is never really the case for the men, who are portrayed as brilliant and competent leaders, even when they are as ambitious as Cersei and clearly want power.) Clearly, Margary, if she married Robert as Renly and Loras hoped, would be "a good wife" to Robert. She would play the conventionally feminine, submissive role, and probably love Robert in a way. Or, at least, she would be kind to him, forgiving him his "little"failings (drunkeness, gluttony, obesity, and terminal cheating). She would stay within her conventional female role, but manage to help her family advance by charming Robert the way Tommen did. And, it is implied, the way Cersei was too stupid to do. Cersei's desire to wield power in her own name, and be beholden to no man, her pride, her insistence on using her own signet, and her burning resentment that she is treated differently due to her sex are presented as proof of Cersei's vengefullness, stupidity, nasty, resentful nature, and lack of subtlety and true intelligence.
  6. Once again, Cersei is singular and sort of "feminist." Once again, she is demonized for it. Interesting: Catelyn identifies herself as a Stark. While Dany is married to Drogo, submits to him. (Actually, takes initiative in one area-- the bedroom. "Liberates" herself by learning to please her husband sexually. Woohoo.) Significantly, all of the other "strong" women whom people throw out to prove that accusing these books of some sexism is TOTALLY UNFAIR are unmarried. Thus, they don't have a husband they are "emasculating" or "disrespecting" in the way that Cersei is (it is implied) emasculating and disrespecting Robert. Asha is unmarried, and does not stand up to/ go against her father's wishes in what she does-- as her father says, he's a- okay with her "being married to an ax. People talk about Asha's sexual liberation, how she's proof that GRRM does not look unkindly on ambitious women or women who subvert gender roles-- in order to take power. I say, conveniently, Asha is unmarried, and all the men she's standing up against/ attempting to take power from are idiots. Not coincidentally, she would almost surely step down if there were a halfway decent candidate. And significantly, though portrayed as intelligent, competent, and a good leader, Asha never once thinks "I am being treated unfairly due to my sex. Not once, in all of her POV chapter. Even when the reader points out that they won't follow her specifically on account of he sex, she does not resent this, or think the gender roles of Westeros are unfair. No other "good" female character ever thinks "I'm being treated unfairly due to my sex," or stands up to their husband. (Or desires power for its own sake.) Arya- unmarried, Brienne -unmarried. So, the only woman who ostentatiously stands up to her husband and challenges the gender roles of Westeros specifically is demonized. Furthermore, she is made to looks stupid/ like a whiner, for resenting the very real inequalities in her society. The only other woman who objected to these gender roles was Arya, when she says that girls are just as important to boys in AGoT. (Interestingly, the subject is Joff's choice to display both the Lanister Lion and the Baratheon stag on his shield. Jon says it is yet more proof of the Queen's shocking arrogance and general ridiculousness that she would have the signal of her own house along with that of the royal house. (Most people here seem to agree, and add only that Cersei is also a moron, for good measure.) Arya rather feebly disagrees; however, we soon learn her main issue is not women being represented equally to men, but her desire to wield a sword. Not nearly so threatening, ahem, I mean, arrogant, as insisting that a woman's original house should be represented equally to the man she marries.) At any rate, after Arya's initial few objections to girls having it different from boys (I think there are like, literally, 2-3 occasions), she never brings this up again. Arya's primary issue throughout the next several books is a search for identity, love, and belonging. The only person who resents the Westeros gender roles is the evil, unfailingly demonized, Cersei. And though I know everyone is going to jump to mention Brienne, she fits in none of these categories. She "challenges the gender roles of Westeros" by fighting like a man/ carrying Weapons, etc. GRRM appears to love it when women fight like men/ are interested in traditionally male activities (or, at least, he portrays such women very sympathetically. In fact, he seems to have less sympathy for conventionally feminine characters, such as Sansa and Cat.)No, what he portreays negatively(or at least what he portrays as horrible and "unnatural") is when women a. lust for power for its own sake (he does not demonize this quality in men NEARLY so much), b. Refuse to submit to their husband in important matters, when their husband is even a mildly good guy, and c. overtly resents the patriarchal customs of Westeros. Cersei does this, and she is made to look stupid, ridiculous, self-deluded, a whiner, etc. In the world GRRM portrays, women who do not fit into the Westeros mold of "conventional woman" do not complain a bit about unfair treatment. They simply somehow buck all tradition without complaint, and become female warrior, in a way that is as inexplicable as it is unrealistic. Brienne never hates the customs of her culture, and rarely blames the men around her for overt sexism. Instead, she fights like a man and blames the fact that she does not fit in on herself, seeing herself as "a freak." The only time she gets angry/ upset with the men around her is when a bunch of soldiers are planning to rape her to show her up. And even then she doesn't think "This is all because i'm a girl, and they are discounting and abusing me on account of my gender." No, instead she thinks, "I can't believe they did this! They are knights. They should be honorable, etc."
  7. Oh, sweet Jesus. Yet another comparison of Cersei with Hilary Clinton. I already got to read a series of delightful little comments on GRRM's blog (posted by readers during the 2008 election time) about how Hilary was the "non hot" version of Cersei. (WTF?! Do people actually blame Hilary for not being sexually attractive at this point? She's 63 years old, for crying out loud.) Needless to say, I got to read some delightful speculation on whether Cersei attempted to burn some areas of the Whitehouse; who Chelsea's true father was; etc. I think its funny that Cersei is presented in such a way that pretty much any ostentatiously ambitious, assertive (maybe aggressive), and proud female can be easily insulted and degraded by calling her a "Cersei." Oh, I know, it’s all a joke and I'm taking it too seriously, blah blah blah. However, its funny how inseparable Cersei's evilness is from the fact that she's an ambitious female who tries to have the power in her marriage and is power hungry in general. Though Hilary has plenty of flaws, I don't see them as all that different from those of many male politicians. However, by comparing her to Cersei, its pretty much implied that she uses sex to get ahead, is a raving sociopath, totally incompetent, stupid, etc. Regarding Cersei Lanister, I'm not sure. But I honestly don't see how it’s THAT huge of an insult to house Baratheon. However, like her desire for power in and of itself, and her refusal to submit to her husband, Cersei's pride in her own house symbol, and refusal to abandon it, is presented as ridiculous, insulting, and somehow "unnatural." Also funny: not a single one of the "ambitious" "powerful" women in these books whom people constantly bring forth when I argue that there is a shade of sexism in how Cersei is portrayed is married.
  8. I'm brand new to the forums and have yet to post anything, but I just wanted to tell you that I'm really enjoying your thoughts on Cersei in AFFC.

  9. How do you want Cersei to die?

    Okay, but you like Littlefinger who: 1. Uses sex to get ahead (screws Lysa when he doesn't give 2 craps about her.) Yet few people say he's "a whore" and complain that he lacks honor, "will screw his way to the top" as they do with Cersei. 2. He had Ser Dontos killed when he really didn't have to. 3. Screwed over Ned. 4. Clearly believes he's the second coming of Christ (or simply "a great man," as he tells Sansa.) 5. Lysa helps promote him, loves him for years, and marries him; in return he murders her. Though he did have his reasons, he did it in the cruelest possible way. 6. Makes 13 year old Sansa believe SHE was responsible for Lysa's murder 7. Attempts to seduce Sansa when she is his ward and totally in his power. 8. Starts hitting on Sansa when she is 11 years old. Hmmm... interesting.
  10. How do you want Cersei to die?

    Oh, perfect. But you forgot the ending where Arya kneels by the corpse of Cersei, then pulls off another mask to discover that she has killed not the queen... but yet another faceless man! Then Cersei herself comes out from offstage, smiling cheerfully and leading Nymeria from a leash, and tells Arya that she was in on it all too. Her entire "evil woman" act, beginning with the direwolves and preceding on through the next three books, has all been an act. She wanted to teach Arya yet another Very Special Lesson that sometimes, it is possible to be too ladylike. Then Catelyn/ Lady Stoneheart enters. She tells Arya that she was also in on it, because she had felt the need to teach Arya the fine line between vengence and justice. And also, to kill all those Freys, because they really did suck big time.
  11. Hi! Thanks for friending me. I really enjoy your posts; always witty, informed and opinionated (in a good way!)

  12. You nade me laugh too much with that Varys-Jory comment :D

  13. How do you want Cersei to die?

    First, re Cersei and Danerys beauty: I've always assumed these two were the most beautiful women presented in the series. This is for several reasons. Proof of Cersei's good looks: First, she is constantly (each and every time we see her) described as beautiful. However, what makes this so notable in Cersei's case is that fact that she is frequently described as beautiful by people who dispise her. For instance, while complaining about Cersei to Ned, Robert notes she is "lovely to look upon," though he clearly loathes her. Tyrion loathes and resents Cersei just as much as Robert, but thinks that she is beautiful on several occasions. And Ned Stark dislikes Cersei from the beginning, but even he cannot help but think how beautiful she is during their meeting in the kingswood. Some other Cersei haters who admit she is gorgeous: Oberyn Martell, Jon Snow, and Stannis Baratheon. Danerys: Well, I've actually just always assumed she was gorgeous, since she's a Targ and the Targ's are described as "inhumanly beautiful." However, I think near the end of the series (probably starting in A Dance With Dragons) Cersei is going to lose her looks. (Remember in A Feast for Crows when Littlefinger notes, "Of all the things Cersei has, only her beauty is her own. And that will not last forever-- it will soon be gone. I will truly pity her when that happens.") I imagine that Cersei will gain weight, and succumb to the ravages of aging brought on prematurely by extreme stress and her newly self indulgent lifestyle (in AFFC, it's mentioned that Cersei's taken to drinking and feasting, like good old King Bob used to.) Furthermore, there is also the tight dresses at the end of AFFC. I think that that may be a sign that she is gaining a bit of weight already. So if Cersei does get fat and lose her looks, it will not be so hard for Danerys to be "the more beautiful queen" of the prophecy.
  14. How do you want Cersei to die?

    Of old age. Warm and safe in her bed, surrounded by her children and grandchildren, all powerful, and in the arms of a much younger man who looks like Jaime but even hotter. What? Everyones always complaining about predictability... and you've got to admit that this particular ending is not what ANYONE is expecting.