• Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

About tze

  • Rank
    A Thousand Eyes And Two

Profile Information

  • Gender Female

Recent Profile Visitors

30,297 profile views

tze's Activity

  1. tze added a post in a topic [TWoIaF spoilers] The Curious Tale of Hyrkoon the Hero   

    I thought it was interesting that none of the non-Westerosi stories of the Long Night seemed to associate it with Westeros, let alone seemed to believe it, or anything that came with/during it, had in any way originated with Westeros. (Admittedly, Yandel's writings here are necessarily truncated.) People have been wondering for a while why the Red Priests never seem to associate "Azor Ahai reborn" with Westeros/the Wall, and this could be the answer: their legends might not even mention the idea of the Long Night originating in Westeros, let alone contemplate some sort of Westerosi-centric battle.

    I see people pointing out the possibility that Azor Ahai (at the very least, the person or people that were the source for that particular hero) really did have nothing to do with defeating the Others/the Long Night in Westeros, but was responsible for fighting some conflict in the eastern region(s) that actually mention him. I think that makes a lot of sense, not just logistically, but also thematically: ASOIAF is written as generally Westerosi-centric, but GRRM has also gone to pains to highlight how events outside of Westeros are ignored at one's peril. The point might be that the Long Night is coming to all of Planetos, and while the series will primarily focus on the Westerosi "theater", that doesn't mean that success in Westeros will necessarily save the rest of the world, as threats will be arriving on multiple fronts.

    If Azor Ahai really was based in the general Asshai-esque region, then if the Red Priests are correct that Azor Ahai will be reborn (admittedly, they may not be---it's interesting how TWOIAF attributes the legend of a hero with a sword to Asshai, but seems to attribute the naming of that hero and the idea of him being reborn to the Red Priests, themselves of uncertain origin), then the point might be that "Azor Ahai reborn" is supposed to fight on a front in the east, not in Westeros. (That would cast Quaithe's apparent attempt to get Dany to head for Asshai in an interesting light.) And if there's a prophecy that a hero associated with a particular Eastern region is needed to reappear, then by implication, something terrible is probably about to hit in the East around Asshai.

    The legendary backstory of Yi Ti mentions its origin as a Golden Empire ruled by demigods who literally descended from an "entity" (the Lion of Night) threatening the Golden Empire during the Long Night. It also specifies that this empire included "the holy isle of Leng". Given what supposedly dwells beneath Leng, what does it mean that people in Yi Ti considered Leng "holy"?? What, exactly, was being worshiped in Yi Ti prior to (and maybe during?) the Long Night? Was the Lion of Night just one half of an "ordinary" dualistic light/dark religion, or might he perhaps have been more in line with the Old Ones/Deep Ones/General Lovecraftian Horrors category of gods? (And what might that mean for the Maiden-Made-of-Light? Or even R'hllor, given the possible similarities between these two dualistic light/dark religions?) Supposedly the Bloodstone Emperor "practiced dark arts, torture, and necromancy" and "cast down the true gods to worship a black stone that had fallen from the sky", with obvious Lovecraftian implications. But it might fit with the underlying Lovecraftian theme that seems to permeate the history of Planetos if perhaps the "true gods" being cast down in Yi Ti weren't of a particularly different . . . nature . . . from that newly arrived "black stone". As in, maybe it wasn't evil fighting good, or even weird fighting ordinary. Maybe it was "Lovecraftian horror" fighting "different Lovecraftian horror" with humans caught in the middle? (Or themselves embodying those "Lovecraftian" horrors?)

    Supposedly the Hyrkoon "were sacrificing tens of thousands of the zorse-riders to their dark and hungry gods", and while we don't know what the connection is between the legendary "Hyrkoon" and the Patrimony of Hyrkoon, that "dark and hungry gods" part is rather sinister. And given the extremely sinister nature of Asshai, what does it mean if the Asshai'i consider someone a hero? (And why would the Asshai'i in particular (Mel's delusions notwithstanding) venerate someone who fought against darkness, given that Asshai is supposedly a place steeped in darkness?) I keep coming back to this, because if the stories of the actual entity that the prophecy refers to originated in Asshai (nightmare central), with a possible counterpart in a Yi Ti that considered an island home to Lovecraftian horrors as "holy", and possibly with a connection to Hyrkoon ("dark and hungry gods"), I'm left with the question of whether we can assume the force fighting "the darkness" in this region was by implication any less terrifying than the thing "causing" or "arriving in" that darkness.

    The Rhoynar aren't mentioned having stories of a hero that saved the day; they have stories of a bunch of lesser river gods "join[ing] together to sing a secret song that brought back the day". That could be a reference to the COTF, as they're associated with singing. It's not clear if the woods walkers are literal COTF or a cousin species, but nothing in their description seemed really different than what we've seen with the Westerosi COTF. There's quite a distance between the Kingdoms of the Ifeqrevon and the Rhoyne, but if woods walkers once lived in the Forest of Qohor, the logistics might work out. (I was going to postulate some water-based cousins to the COTF---"the ones that sing the songs of water?"---but . . . maybe the Deep Ones, or some river-dwelling equivalent, are water-based cousins to the COTF. Which goes back to the point about what "sides" actually existed during the Long Night, and whether it was necessarily all of the humans vs. all of the nonhumans.)

    We know the Five Forts sit to the northeast of Yi Ti's borders, which makes no sense if they were raised to combat a threat initially coming from anywhere to the west. And the Five Forts were also, according to some stories,

  2. tze added a post in a topic [TWOIAF Spoilers] Discussions of TWOIAF   

    The fact that Daemon once gave Rhaenyra

  3. tze added a post in a topic Historic foreshadowing / history repeating itself   

    The story about the Long Night coming to Yi Ti after a succession battle between a sister and brother over the throne seems like a hint about what's coming vis a vis the Long Night and the upcoming Dance.
  4. tze added a post in a topic Dany's Diahhrehea?   

    It's a subtle callback to a point Theon made in ACOK:

  5. tze added a post in a topic New TWoIaF excerpt from the App [spoiler]   

    I think this is the first instance in which we've seen the specific term "High King" used in ASOIAF. When Aegon landed he didn't declare himself High King, he declared himself King and demoted the other Kings to lords. The Stark material doesn't mention the Starks historically using a High King title. I don't recall any mention of a High King from the Westerlands material (though obviously that was an oral report, and parts were necessarily left out). I'll be curious to see if the specific title of "High King" was ever used elsewhere in Westerosi history.

    Also interesting is that "King of the True Men" title used by Osgood Shett that Yandel finds "vainglorious". What specific honor was Shett claiming, and why did Yandel seem to find the title so pompous? Supposedly the title goes back 10,000 years to the Dawn Age---is "King of the True Men" just another name for King of the First Men, and Yandel finds Shett's claiming of that title presumptuous? (If so, Yandel's phrasing here is odd. According to the table of contents, the Vale section comes after the Dawn Age/Coming of the First Men material, and also after the Northern material that we know mentions the idea of some First King, yet it treats the "King of the True Men" title here as something not yet mentioned.) Or does "King of the True Men" refer to something else? To be King of the True Men might imply the existence of false men, and what historical group might be considered false men? The Others? The Children? Some ancient mythical group that hasn't yet been mentioned? Or might it be a relic of some as-yet-unmentioned schism among the First Men, with one group denoting themselves "true men"?

  6. tze added a post in a topic So how many people think Dany is the younger more beautiful queen?   

    I'm not quite sure how anyone could possibly say Dany is a choice for this prophecy. This prophecy does not say "Queen you shall be, until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down, except not really, because you'll have already been cast down long beforehand, and for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with this person, and take all that you hold dear, except not really, because you'll have already lost everything you hold dear by the time this person show up, and for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with this person, so this person won't actually be able to take anything from you."

    I think people are getting way too caught up in certain details of this prophecy, and haven't been connecting them to the actual central question of this prophecy. Guys, the key questions here aren't "who is younger and more beautiful than Cersei?" or "who could be a queen figure?" There are multiple characters who can fulfill those criteria, (noting of course that the "queen" critierium isn't actually specified in the prophecy), characters who can fulfill those criteria without having anything whatsoever to do with Cersei. The key question is, "Who among those younger and more beautiful people is responsible for casting Cersei down and taking all that she holds dear?" Dany makes about as much sense there as Val, which is to say, none at all. It doesn't matter, per se, if someone is younger and more beautiful than Cersei. It also doesn't matter if someone intends on being a Queen of Westeros. (Noting, of course, that the prophecy does not specify a queen.) What matters---the key criteria that people seem to be forgetting---is this person's role in Cersei's downfall.

    As of ADWD, Cersei's already lost her power, her position, her dignity, her reputation, her beauty, and her pride. And all for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with Dany. She's lost the protection and support of her family, for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with Dany. One of her children is dead, for reasons that had nothing to do with Dany. Her other children are now in danger from Aegon/Connington, not Dany. Thanks to her misrule in King's Landing and the Walk of Shame, she has zero chance of ever retaking her position in King's Landing, let alone actually being able to rule the Westerlands as Lady of Casterly Rock---and again, for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with Dany. By the time Dany finally lands, what is Cersei even going to have left for Dany to take? (Will Cersei even still be alive by the time Dany finally lands in Westeros??)

    Cersei is living her downfall right now. We are seeing her be cast down, and we are seeing her lose all that she holds dear, right now. This is not a question of "Who will cast Cersei down in the future?", because Cersei's downfall is not coming in the future. We're seeing it happen right now. Dany cannot be the person to cast Cersei down and take all that she holds dear, because Dany is not the person doing any of those things. (Speculating about who will cause Cersei's downfall would be like arguing about who we think will end up stabbing Jon at Castle Black.)

  7. tze added a post in a topic Wow, I never noticed that v. 7   

    The first person who steps forward to fight against Tyrion in his first trial by combat bears the sigil of a green viper. The first person who steps forward to fight for Tyrion in his second trial by combat is, of course, the Red Viper.

    A fun little tidbit that I overlooked far too many times: in AFFC, Cersei---who had, earlier in the book, made it clear that she had no idea who the members of House Greyjoy were outside of Balon---is told which Greyjoy now leads the Ironborn:

  8. tze added a post in a topic Why Would Rhaegar Not Marry a Targaryen?   

    ETA: Double post.
  9. tze added a post in a topic The Secert ingredient to hatching dragons   

    Gyldayn says something rather interesting in TPATQ:

  10. tze added a post in a topic Why is Jaquen in Oldtown?   

  11. tze added a post in a topic Wow, I never noticed that v. 6   

    A fun analogy from Aeron in ACOK: