Black Crow

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About Black Crow

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    Heretic
  • Birthday 04/15/1954

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    Male
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    Scotland/North England
  1. Heresy 195 and the Mists of Time

    I don't think that the detail will matter one way or the other if they're all dead and gone. I think that what matters is that structures like Moat Caillin don't fit into the timeline we've been told and instead point to a lost pre-Winter civilisation. Where it may matter is in the realisation that if it was indeed destroyed in or rather by the Long Night, then the same is going to happen again as Winter closes in, unless it can somehow be averted.
  2. Heresy 195 and the Mists of Time

    Getting back to serious stuff. There is a serious problem with the black basalt stuff which may actually offer a solution to some of the timeline contradictions. Lets keep it simple by focusing on Moat Caillin. As described it is a massive structure, but a ruin. Unlike everywhere else in Westeros we have no back-story. We don't know who built it and we don't know who destroyed it, yet it occupies a singularly important position. This is underlined by Catelyn Stark's POV when we have a reference to an original wooden keep, rotted away 1,000 years before. That falls within what passes for recorded in Westeros, yet once again we have nothing. There is no reason not to suppose that when the Andal armies broke themselves against Moat Caillin, the castle was already a ruin. This doesn't fit into the orderly progression from hairy men in furs to the High Middle Ages of the present. So step back at this point. Here on Heresy we have tried to make sense of the relationship between the First Men and the Children of the Forest by discussing the possibility that the Long Night, far from being a random event, was brought down the the Three-Fingered Tree-Huggers and was what forced men to agree the Pact. But lets put that idea aside and go back to the original timeline, but latterly foreshortened to place the coming of the Andals at no more than 2,000 years ago and as little as 1,000 years ago. Now let's retain the same headway for the Long Night. Ignoring the individual dates, Maester Luwin's history allows a gap of 4,000 years between the Long Night and the coming of the Andals. This appears to be confirmed by GRRM in his later writing. If the Andals tooled up 2,000 years ago then 4,000 years back would take us to 6,000 years ago; the dating we're now being given in the World Book for the Long Night. Apply that same gap to the Andals not coming over until 1,000 years ago and the Long Night correspondingly shuffles forward to just 5,000 years ago. Meanwhile, back at the ranch. In her tale of the Long Night, Old Nan describes an apocalyptic near-extinction event during which kings froze in their castles. Were those "castles" technically unsophisticated ringworks like the one on the Fist, or did they include Moat Caillin?
  3. Heresy 195 and the Mists of Time

    but true...
  4. Heresy 195 and the Mists of Time

    No, that's where I disagree. For Tolkein everything had its place, its purpose and its history. Not only was his world like a glacier but the story moved like one too. GRRM's world-building is altogether of a different order. Oh, and he did mention that he put lots of legends into the books such as Bran the Builder. Bran the builder is supposed to have built the Wall, Winterfell, and Storms End. GRRM mentioned that he has become a legend so that people will look at a structure and say "wow, it must have been built by Bran the Builder" when it actually was not. This is GRRM's attempt on creating a world with myths and legends so if at some point you see, "They say it was built by Bran the Builder or Lann the Clever" realize that its part of the mythos.
  5. Heresy 195 and the Mists of Time

    Up to a point. I think the difference between them is that GRRM is indeed a gardener or sorts. While Tolkein's world is carefully constructed, GRRM's garden is full of weeds which serve to thicken the borders and shrubbery but otherwise have no place in the grand design and are of no significance in themselves. In the case of the black stones, they might be likened to a rockery, hinting at romantic ruins but serving no practical purpose.
  6. Heresy 195 and the Mists of Time

    I don't think we're given enough to make anything of them in themselves. Its clearly part of GRRM's world building though and ultimately, although I think we'll never learn anything of those who worked the black stones, the point of them is that the known timeline is screwed in that the First Men were nothing of the sort; there were older civilisations which preceded them.
  7. Heresy 195 and the Mists of Time

    An interesting one. I'm not sure how far to take the moon by itself, given that there's an SSM out there in which GRRM denied that there's any significance to the Moonsingers. What does occur to me, however, on reading your essay is that Artys Arryn might well have been a skinchanger [if not a warg] and flew to do battle on the Giant's Lance not by riding on the back of an improbably large falcon, but by riding within it.
  8. Heresy 195 and the Mists of Time

    I swear it by the Old Gods and the New
  9. Heresy 195 and the Mists of Time

    I like that one, because we've speculated before that Bloodraven's vagueness as to whether he is the three-eyed-crow may spring from his being unaware of his own avatar.
  10. Heresy 195 and the Mists of Time

    Save it for Heresy 196 when we start i on The Wall
  11. Heresy 195 and the Mists of Time

    Its possible, but we're still left with the question of the identity of the sacrifice who has been changed into the door.
  12. Heresy 195 and the Mists of Time

    But again that comes back to who locked it and why?
  13. Heresy 195 and the Mists of Time

    A popular suggestion, but it depend on who placed that lock on the gate. Sam, obviously, took his vows in front of a tree and can open it, but if whoever locked it did so to block it to the allies of the Old Gods, then being a follower is unlikely to be a precondition of access.
  14. Heresy 195 and the Mists of Time

    But yet GRRM, [the only true god in this story], is keen to tell we miserable readers that things aint what they seem in the timelines. As to the purpose of the list or rather multiple lists of Lord Commanders, they do have a very important "public" function. To quote Sam "We say you're the 998th Lord Commander". [for the list referred to to be the oldest one there must by definition be others of more recent date] Men such as Bowen Marsh and everyone else in the Watch who expresses an opinion, believes that the Watch has guarded the Wall for 8,000 years and those lists provide the legitimacy for that belief - and as he no doubt suspects are a Manx cat job compiled precisely for that reason.
  15. Heresy 195 and the Mists of Time

    Depends. Just because there was a portal - a gateway between the realms - there needn't originally have been a magical door. What's important about this one is that it requires a living brother of the Nights Watch to open it. Coldhands was a brother and knows the words but can't pass. We can therefore safely ascribe the locking of the gate to the Watch and while Bran at first sight assumes the door to be white weirwood, it actually turns out to be something quite different and so not attributable to the three-fingered tree huggers. A reasonable interpretation therefore would be that the tree huggers created the gateway and the Night's King guarded it, but when he was overthrown the new Watch sealed it up with their own magic door. I did long ago suggest that the door itself might be the Nights King