Black Crow

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About Black Crow

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    Heretic
  • Birthday 04/15/1954

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    Scotland/North England
  1. Heresy 197 the wit and wisdom of Old Nan

    The World Book certainly speaks of large numbers being sacrificed to bring about the Hammer of the Waters. Lesser magic presumably also demands its proportionate sacrifice. As to the bones that might not be significant in itself but rather the opposite. If X has moved on to become part of the godhead, what are the bones but a discarded coat?
  2. Heresy 197 the wit and wisdom of Old Nan

    I read "brothers" in the sense that the [hairy] giants are, like the children and the direwolves, one of the old races. The "bane" simply means that they weren't playing happy families
  3. Heresy 197 the wit and wisdom of Old Nan

    Ah, well that's where I reckon that a blood price was paid for the peace; the Nights King "sacrificing to the Others" was the ongoing payment of that price, and the Umbers were freed from bondage when the Nights King was overthrown
  4. Heresy 197 the wit and wisdom of Old Nan

    There's a possible reversion of legend here- [not to confuse things with Feather's inversion theory: Folklore tells of Stonehenge and Hadrian's Wall [to name but two massive structures] being built by gods, giants, or magic but we in our wisdom know they were built by men. Perhaps the Wall reverses this, because we have hints enough that it was built by magic and by blood magic at that, just as wholesale sacrifices were required to bring down the hammer of the waters and perhaps thereby trigger the dodgy seasons
  5. Heresy 197 the wit and wisdom of Old Nan

    Rather depends on how tall the giants in question are. In very simple terms if the average height of a normal mediaeval peasant in a shade under 5 foot 6, then a 7 foot man will unquestionably be a giant
  6. Heresy 197 the wit and wisdom of Old Nan

    With the proviso that they are freakishly tall and deserving of the epithet of giants and as such are more likely to be the origin of Old Nan's tales about giants than those creatures found north of the Wall,
  7. Heresy 197 the wit and wisdom of Old Nan

    We have a number of human giants turning up in this tale of happy country-folk. There is the lost civilisation connected with Lorath, albeit only in the World Book There are the Umbers, and explicitly the Drunken Giant - although I believe to judge from his descendants and kinfolk, that he was renowned for his drinking rather than his height, which may have been unremarkable for Umbers There is Ser Duncan the Tall And then there are Hodor and Brienne, both of whom are hinted to be descended from Ser Duncan. And not forgetting the Mountain that Rides All of them are human and while "freakishly big" enough to attract the epithet of giants they are clearly not connected with Mag's people.
  8. Heresy 197 the wit and wisdom of Old Nan

    Not necessarily on the hybridisation;we have all that stuff in the World Book about a lost civilisation of very tall people so I'm still not inclined to look for a link between the Umbers and Mag the Mighty's people. Nevertheless the sigil does clearly point to the Umbers having at some point been freed from bondage and the story of the Nights King has that connection. Ok Old Nan speaks of the Watch being freed from bondage but they are unlikely to have been the only people ruled by the King.
  9. Heresy 197 the wit and wisdom of Old Nan

    Not seen that Wiki version before and I note that its based on an article in the Citadel, so dubious as to canon. I have a clear recollection of an earlier version, here or elsewhere, depicting a "normal" looking giant in 7 league boots. I certainly agree that Jon on meeting those north of the Wall does not recognise any resemblance to the Umber sigil. As to the Umbers themselves on the other hand we have the famous Harmond Umber "the drunken giant" - my emphasis, and, again whatever the true story behind it that sigil is a proud reference to the Umbers not some inhuman other giants beyond the Wall.
  10. Heresy 197 the wit and wisdom of Old Nan

    The sigil does seem significant, and I'd be inclined as I've said to question whether Mag the Mighty and his people are the giants of Old Nan's stories. If the sigil is an unchained Umber it begs the question as to who held them - the Nights King?
  11. Heresy 197 the wit and wisdom of Old Nan

    I rather suppose it depends how you define giants; the ones we have encountered don't accord with Old Nan's stories as told to Jon.
  12. Heresy 197 the wit and wisdom of Old Nan

    If she's the Queen of Winter and dressed in white, she has to be cold, its in the rules of storytelling Welcome back. You've been missed
  13. Heresy 197 the wit and wisdom of Old Nan

    Welcome to Heresy. Do post again
  14. Heresy 197 the wit and wisdom of Old Nan

    Different factions of CotF fighting, or at least in conflict, with each other is a popular theory, but thus far we really haven't seen any evidence of it and on the contrary the hive mind of the old gods would tend to rule against it. On the other hand I do agree that reading them as innocent victims is far too simplistic. Blood and sacrificial offerings doesn't appear to be an abstract concept.
  15. Heresy 197 the wit and wisdom of Old Nan

    Ah well that's always been one of the big questions asked in Heresy; what was demanded by the three-fingered tree-huggers in return for "helping" the Last Hero?