Black Crow

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  • Birthday 04/15/1954

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  1. Ultimately the point is that this is the Song of Ice and Fire and a resolution won't be achieved by Azor Ahai malleting the icy horror from the north - or melting them with dragonfire. The point about the Reeds' oath is that the land is one and victory by either side will be a disaster. [remember “Benerro has sent forth word from Volantis. Her coming is the fulfilment of an ancient prophecy. From smoke and salt was she born to make the world anew. She is Azor Ahai returned… and her triumph over the darkness will bring a summer that will never end… death itself will bend its knee, and all those who die fighting in her cause shall be reborn…” and Mel's dismissal of the Wildlings as a doomed people] Therefore, whether Craster's boys have a leader, or they are taking orders from a tree doesn't really constitute a Dark Lord scenario because because it isn't a single threat which is being faced, but an imbalance between two forces.
  2. Exactly so, I'm tempted to say these are not the enemies you are looking for. For an ancient enemy that hates all living things they're not being too hateful. Everything we've seen them do so far has been in the nature of harrying and hustling rather than outright massacre. Yes they ganged up on Ser Waymar, but leaving aside speculation as to a possible connection with the she-wolf that was a pretty classic intimidation tactic. When your patrols keep disappearing without a trace there's eventually a reluctance to go patrolling. The fight on the Fist was a battle, but what did it really achieve? It stopped Mormont from intercepting Mance's trek. What was the effect of picking off stragglers from the trek? It kept them closed up and moving, and so on... And of course there's Craster and whatever the truth of what was going on there Craster and his kin conspicuously weren't dead.
  3. I think it rather depends on how you define a Dark Lord. On the evidence thus far, whatever their true origin I currently see the Walkers as a form of Nazgul; there's a gang of them not an army. Do they have a leader? We've seen no evidence of one and even if there was, what of it? Turn to Bloodraven; its popularly believed that he's manipulating everything in sight, but is he? Bloodraven the man is dead and his consciousness is fading fast. What then of the trees he's fading into, and the tree-huggers who almost certainly aint the kindly elves of Old Nan's stories. Now yes, that's a good possibility for what's going on, but they have a motive for fighting; they are facing extinction and so are the other Old Races. That might make them an enemy but its very different from a dark lord scenario where an individual is out to dominate everything through sheer megalomania. There are all manner of bad guys in the story, some of them downright evil, and they do nasty things, sometimes unspeakable things but that don't make them dark lords As GRRM said [sorry, no link]: ... at the L.A. Worldcon in 2006, George was on a panel and he was talking a bit dismissively about the cookie-cutter fantasies with a Dark Lord that's the ultimate evil, wants to destroy the world, etc. and he said, you know, nothing is ever that black and white in reality, history's greatest villains and monsters were, from their own perspective, heroic, etc. And he basically said he didn't want to write about a Dark Lord sort of situation.
  4. The Others are clearly mad, bad and dangerous to know, but that's not the same as being evil. Craster provides the best possible clue to their true nature and origin. In physical terms they may, as GRRM put it, a different form of life, but they have their origin in men; hard flawed men, Craster's sons and sons of Winterfell. They can't be dismissed as something alien but rather confronted as the side of the family nobody talks about. Its precisely because Jon is a Son of Winterfell, not a political animal, that he needs to tackle this, especially if his stabbing and probable death brings about physical changes and clads him in ice. The magic is low key in so far as we don't see much in the way of low level stuff beyond Mel's tricks, and the dragons and the walkers, but its there and always has been and ultimately this isn't a disaster movie with the survivors washing up in Essos; it is the song of Ice and Fire and the deep magic must be confronted.
  5. Oh indeed, as I've said before any revelation that R+L=J was a red herring is likely to have GRRM entering some form of witness protection programme
  6. It all depends who Jon and "his people" are. This is the Song of Ice and Fire. As a very old heretic joke goes it may not be a case of the Dragons saving Westeros from the Others, but of the Others saving Westeros from the Dragons. That's not to say though that Jon [and Bran] and Danaerys are to become the embodiment of evil in a struggle for mastery over Westeros, but rather that they will also have to fight against expectations in order to swear it by Ice and Fire. Traditionally there has been an easy assumption by too many readers that this will all get sorted by Jon being revealed as Azor Ahai and riding a dragon to victory over the Others on the Trident. [whoops sorry, that was Danaerys' dream] Moving that fantasy option to Essos won't achieve anything; descending into the Winterfell crypts and bringing down the Wall will be a very different matter
  7. And that's exactly why I don't see any point in shifting away from Westeros and the Song of Ice and Fire to fight some pointless battle in Essos
  8. Ah, there's a difference here between character arcs and mysteries. Yes, its possible in theory that this might all end with Danerys muttering "next year in Westeros" and then getting distracted again by tax policy, although I really don't see it happening. As its been pointed out above the whole business of tarrying in the desert sands, otherwise known as the Meereenese Knot, had nothing to do with plot development and everything to do with stretching the story by five years so that all of the children could grow up a bit. The central mysteries of the story will not be answered in Essos but in Westeros. Who were Jon Snow's parents and why does it matter? Where is Bran really headed under the ground and in the darkness? Where do the Green Men really fit in? What's in the Winterfell crypts and most important of all, what's the Stark connection to Winter and who are the Others and what do they really want? These questions must be answered and must be answered in the North of Westeros, at Winterfell and on the Wall. And when they have been, moving the endgame to Essos is pointless.
  9. Apologies for the dodgy formatting Mr Martin, why does Westeros seem the only place effected by the Others and the long winters? The other parts of the world seem not to care. GRRM Westeros is not the only place affected, but it's affected most strongly, because it's the only landmass that extends that far north. The other continent is bounded to the north by an icy polar sea.
  10. Depends how you define his story. He has said that certain major themes will be resolved and answers revealed [including Jon's parentage] but I'd be very disappointed if all the questions were answered and all of the many plot lines resolved. Part of this gardening business is to let some things grow whose real purpose is to entertain and fascinate and interact but ultimately to conceal and divert our attention from what's truly important. In the 1993 synopsis for example Jon's parentage appears no big deal beyond getting him inside Arya's knickers. Since publication however R+L=J has become one of the most dominant themes of discussion. Is it actually a far bigger deal than in the synopsis or is GRRM happy to nurture the theory and so divert attention from more important things?
  11. In story-telling terms there are far too many things which need to be resolved in Westeros and nowhere else
  12. This has been around on the dark side of the web for a while: Continuing the most imaginative and ambitious epic fantasy since The Lord of the Rings Winter has come at last and no man can say whether it will ever go again. The Wall is broken, the cold dead legions are coming south, and the people of the Seven Kingdoms turn to their queen to protect them. But Daenerys Targaryen is learning what Robert Baratheon learned before her; that it is one thing to win a throne and quite another to sit on one. Before she can hope to defeat the Others, Dany knows she must unite the broken realm behind her. Wolf and lion must hunt together, maester and greenseer work as one, all the blood feuds must be put aside, the bitter rivals and sworn enemies join hands. The Winds of Winter tells the story of Dany’s fight to save her new-won kingdom, of two desperate journeys beyond the known world in to the very hearts of ice and fire, and of the final climactic battle at Winterfell, with life itself in the balance.
  13. Aint gonna happen. Fire may be based out east, but this is about Westeros, the Wall, Winterfell and about the Starks [and their Icy little secret]
  14. I'm not sure that Jon was a factor. I think that Rhaegar was trying to neutralise the Starks and Jon was an unintended consequence whether Rhaegar or Rumpelstiltskin was the father.
  15. Ah, those were the days. Read and enjoy, all of you and then carry on the discussion here