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About MtnLion

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    The Mountain that Runs

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  1. R+L=J v.162

    Offhand that would seem reasonable. Thinking about Aerys' state of mind during a war where he knows that he is losing, does not suggest that he would waste any time before appointing a new Hand. Further, if more than a week passed between the night of the rape, and news of the Trident, Jaime wouldn't remark about being able to see the marks on Rhaella as she departed King's Landing. Now, for myself, having a good grasp of military history; I know that an army travels on its stomach. The lead is never going to be very far ahead of the wheeled kitchen, or grazing cattle. I just don't believe that GRRM took that into account.
  2. R+L=J v.162

    Well, as I have said before, then Daenerys' father cannot be Aerys, if it take Ned more than 2-3 weeks. Dropping back a bit, Jonothor Darry is present for Daenerys' conception (we assume that it is during the rape that Jaime witnesses). Yet, Jonothor travels to the Trident with Rhaegar, and King's Landing is sacked in the space of a fortnight. Ned arrives at King's Landing as it is being sacked. I believe that it is likely that GRRM intends for us to understand that Robert arrived the same day, since the children and Elia are presented in crimson cloaks to hide the blood. The blood must be fresh, not day(s) old. I don't believe that travelling from the Ruby Ford is going to take less time than travelling to Storm's End, for Ned. It shouldn't take any longer than that for him to go directly to the tower, since he seems to have had a guide. (*cough* Ethan) So, in GRRM's words, "Put your stopwatch and ruler away, and enjoy the story."
  3. R+L=J v.162

    Daenerys tells us that her mother's pregnancy lasted nine moons. GRRM has not explained what a moon is, in precise terms. He has not given us exact timing of pregnancies. He doesn't refer to delay in any conceptions. Instead of looking at the three percent, let's concentrate on the 97%. Is it unreasonable that Jon is born three to seven days before Ned arrives? No. Is it unreasonable for Jon to have been born between the sack of King's Landing and two weeks later? No. Is it unreasonable for Ned to arrive at the tower up to 3 weeks after the sack of King's Landing? No. Is it unreasonable for Ned to have had a guide take him directly to the tower of joy? No.
  4. R+L=J v.162

    Okay, so Jon was born within a fortnight of the sack. Lyanna died of puerperal fever after Ned arrived. Ned arrived after the sack, but cannot be any later than 24 days after the sack (otherwise Aerys cannot be Daenerys' father, and a few other oddities). Ergo Jon was born at most ten days before Ned arrives, but based upon GRRM's other examples, more likely 3-5 days before Ned arrives (making the above 24 days more like 17-19 after the sack). Ned and Rhaegar along with their armies can move at warp speeds, I do not doubt.
  5. R+L=J v.162

    Eight or nine months older than Daenerys tells us a great deal. The night that Aerys roasted the Mace and Dagger Hand was when Aerys paid Rhaella a visit. While he was doing so, Jaime and Jonothor Darry were at the door. The following Hand was the Pyromancer, and he had been Hand for a fortnight when Jaime kills him. Also, the marks from the night that Aerys paid a visit to Rhaella were still visible when she leaves King's Landing (after news of the Trident had reached them). Bruises and scratches fade, not being readily apparent in one week, and becoming invisible in two weeks. If it took Ned more than 2 and a half weeks to get from King's Landing to Storm's End, then on to the tower, then we should start looking for some other father for Daenerys. It is no secret that Rhaella and Aerys were not even amiable. Willem Darry is a good candidate . . .
  6. R+L=J v.162

    @Tucu We are given that Daenerys was born nine months after her mother fled King's Landing. We are given that Jon is eight to nine months older than Daenerys. We are given that it was less than a week (marks still visible on Rhaella) after Rhaegar and Jonothor Darry went to the Trident that Rhaella fled King's landing. I would say that Jon's birth is firmly placed near the fall of King's Landing. We are also given that puerperal fever has caused death in three days after birth. Even with modern medicine the mean after onset of puerperal fever fatality is 7-10 days, with onset up to five days post birth.
  7. R+L=J v.162

    That does not explain how Rhaegar can order Jaime . . . The point is that the conversation between Jaime and Rhaegar as Rhaegar is leaving for the Trident shows us that there is no split between Rhaegar and Aerys. To say that Aerys doesn't trust Whent and Dayne, who are his Kingsguard is an exaggeration at the least. Aerys trusted Jaime to abide by his vow and bring his father's head. Things didn't turn out so well for Aerys, but Jaime would be the least trusted of the Kingsguard under those conditions.
  8. Not Confirmed

    @Panther2000 There will always be doubters, even when we see the actual details happening onscreen. "Maybe that wasn't really Rhaegar, but Mance Rayder with a glamor." "The joke's on him, though, that was Lollys Stokeworth with a glamor."
  9. R+L=J v.162

    If there was a split between Aerys and Rhaegar, why was Rhaegar still commanding the White Knights?
  10. Small Questions v. 10105

    We could bring screenplay Barristan and Grey Worm into the discussion. It seems clear that there is level of fighter that is far above the ordinary skilled fighter. GRRM did write that Jaime killed a dozen good men, and Barristan killed a dozen good men. Even half that number skews the odds severely against Ned's party. Ned's party consists of five maybe good men (no mention of health from earlier battles), a crannogman and a boy squire, all having been travelling in haste for near a fortnight (by my calendar). @Rob StormThe great standoff between Ned and Jaime is because Ned wanted Robert to send Jaime to the Wall, at a minimum, for breaking his oath. Instead Robert forgave him. Ned regards Jaime as an oath breaker. Jaime resents that his finest deed is viewed so dimly by The Ned. There is nothing in the White Book that we know of regarding those three dying, except in the screenplay. Only Jaime and Barristan would write to the White Book, or read from it. I wonder who the screenplay will make Lord Commander, now. (Let's hope not Ser Robert.)
  11. Small Questions v. 10105

    Willem Darry fled the king, when he left with Viserys and Rhaella. The three at the tower are comparing that to going to Dragonstone, now, to be with Rhaella and Viserys. I am not too sure that GRRM could have been any clearer, without a plain statement. Looking at past accomplishments of Kingsguard on the field of battle is illuminating. Jaime killed a dozen at the Whispering Woods. Barristan killed a dozen at the Trident. Arthur Dayne with Dawn is better than Barristan, and without Dawn is equal to Barristan. How on earth did 5 middling fighters, a carrnogman, and a squire fresh from a year in the Black Cells manage to defeat Arthur Dayne, let alone Whent and Hightower? GRRM owes us an in depth explanation.
  12. R+L=J... But not only ??

    There is a drawback to that, we know that Aegon was killed when he was a bout a year old by the Mountain. Why would Rhaegar name two of his sons Aegon? It would not make sense, even in a vision for Daenerys.
  13. R+L=J v.162

    You make some good points, but it seems that you are missing some keys in GRRM's answer; if it is truly an answer. I believe that it is likely that the three Kingsguard were far away when Jaime stabbed Aerys. In fact so far away that it was a week or two before they knew about it. I believe that it is entirely possible that Whent and Dayne returned to the tower only when Jon's birth was nigh, and that could have been after the fact of Aerys' death. If Rhaegar intended to ensure that Hightower remained at the tower until after Jon's birth, it makes sense to order Whent and Dayne to time their arrival with the appropriate day. Furthermore, there would be no reason for Hightower to depart in haste, until word of the fall of House Targaryen arrived, possibly news of the Trident and the Sack arriving from the same source; at the same time. So, looking back at GRRM's answer (if it really is an answer, unlike his many other misdirections, or red herrings if you prefer); it is true that they had to follow Rhaegar's orders, as long as they did not conflict with their primary duty. What is their primary duty? GRRM says, right there in you quote, "They protect the king. They serve the king." It should be quite clear, especially given that the screenplay has revealed the oath, through Brienne, that Ned would only hold these knights in high esteem if they went down, true to their words. ". . . to die for you, if need be." As for your argument about superiors, I don't find it compelling. There are no superiors to the White Knights, unless the king grants them. That is one of the reasons that I cannot see a split between Rhaegar an Aerys as viable. If there had been a split, Aerys was sure to revoke Rhaegar's powers of command over the White Knights. So, there was never a split between Rhaegar and Aerys. However, the three at the tower included the Lord Commander, and it is clear in the conversation that they know that Viserys does not have Kingsguard protection, and that there are no other living male Targaryens as far as Ned knows. Logic tells us that the Kingsguard know of another living male Targaryen, and that they give their lives defending him. QED
  14. R+L=J v.162

    No, he says, "certain orders". Now, a good question might be what certain orders could Prince Rhaegar give? Perhaps like the one that he gave Jaime, as he left for the Trident.
  15. R+L=J v.162

    Perhaps what is more telling is Ned's view of those who stood and fought him to their deaths at the tower of joy. We know how reviled Jaime is for breaking his vow. Ned revered, honored and respected these three Kingsguard. He did not erect a communal grave for them, but built each one their own cairn. He says to Bran that once the Kingsguard had been a shining example to the world, and that the greatest knight among them was Arthur Dayne. So, what did they do that gathered Ned's respect and admiration? It seems the most likely explanation is that they held true to their vow and died defending their king.