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About MtnLion

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    The Mountain that Runs

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  1. R+L=J v.162

    Yes, Tywin places Rhaenys' age when she was killed. Aegon's age is placed in an SSM at about one year. It is nearly certain that Rhaegar did not leave Dragonstone before Aegon was born, based upon what Daenerys sees at the House of the Undying. Further support through the World Book, about Rhaegar's whereabouts not being known during the bitter cold. Brandon travels to Riverrun to answer Littlefinger's challenge, and this must be after the bitterest part of winter has receded. After Brandon defeats Littlefinger he excuses himself from Riverrun for a short errand, and hears news that has him ride for King's Landing when he is returning. Some time passes as Rickard is summoned to King's Landing, and he musters 100 men to accompany him. And, it is after Rickard and Brandon are executed that Jon Arryn receives the message demanding the heads of his wards, that is the beginning of the war. So, lay it out on a timeline for yourself, and work things out on your own. If you have a genuine question, I am sure that you will get a genuine answer, here. I get tired of being challenged at each turning, for no reason at all. To a thinking person, Rhaenys' age should have been the real turning point. Tywin, who was Hand when Rhaenys was born, the manner he uses places her age at death within a week or two either side of her third nameday. Add that she must be born in the 10th or 11th month of the year (not noted for being near the new year for either Rhaegar's wedding, or her birth), and we have a month in 283 for the sack, or official end of the war. At the very least it is in the third quarter of the year.
  2. R+L=J v.162

    Rhaegar and Elia married in 280, so there is nine months of 280 gone. Come on. And you were quoting the World Book earlier. Aegon was born near the new year of 282. (This does agree with my pre-World Book calculations.) Early in 281 the Harrenhal Tourney is held. Winter returns shortly afterwards. Elia was bedridden for half a year after delivering Rhaenys, yet she attends the tourney. It puts a pretty strict window on the time between Harrnehal and the sack of King's Landing. Jaime's age confirms it.
  3. R+L=J v.162

    Here. After the Battle of the Bells, Ned and Jon Arryn married the Tully girls. They spent long enough together for Ned to see Catelyn pregnant before returning to the war. Robb is a newborn when Catelyn leaves Riverrun for Winterfell (after the war). Jon is at Winterfell with his wetnurse when Catelyn arrives. Early in GoT it is implied that Robb is older by about a fortnight than Jon. That agrees with Catelyn's view that Jon was conceived after her wedding Ned, and Ned's admission (lie). Now, look at the ages of the children: Rhaenys is near her third birthday and Aegon was about a year old when slain. (Or, maybe even Jaime being sworn in at Harrenhal at fifteen, and killing Aerys when he was seventeen.) (Mike drops)
  4. R+L=J v.162

    Cripes, how long did the war last? Think about how you are trying to compare apples and oranges, to make your point. I think that you will join the others on my ignore list. I am telling you that a mother of a newborn can tell the difference in ages of newborns that are within weeks of each other, and only a month or two old.
  5. R+L=J v.162

    Oh, are you one of those that will say that Catelyn couldn't tell the ages of newborns? Why would she think that Ned had fathered Jon after her wedding? It seems that Jon's nameday is about a fortnight after Robb's. But, even if you want to protest this, it should be abundantly clear that between the Battle of the Bells and the fall of King's Landing there is at least nine months. The Battle of the Bells was the first battle in the new year of 283. It does matter, based upon what Whent and Dayne do to get back to the tower. There is nothing that tells us for certain that Rhaegar spent more than a few hours at King's Landing before heading off to the Trident. Rhaegar could have been said to have taken command, if he was corresponding with the Kingsguard who were leading the effort. That could have been by raven, while enroute to King's Landing. It would not make sense for Rhaegar to travel through enemy territory unescorted, making it clear the Whent and Dayne likely accompanied him. In my opinion, it took Hightower several months to sleuth out the location of the tower.
  6. R+L=J v.162

    When there is a slough of misinformation, I suspect all of the information unless it is verified from an alternate source. I believe that is a reasonable approach. After the Battle of the Bells Aerys sent the Kingsguard (except Jaime and Hightower) to gather the scattered forces. At some point Aerys asked for and received a pledge for Dorne spears to add to the mustered forces. Likely, although not specified, additional levies were brought in and trained. The Kingsguard (Lewyn, Barristan, Jonothor) assigned to those forces were fully capable of commanding and training those forces. Hightower was assigned to find Rhaegar and return him to King's Landing. We have no timeline for Hightower's search, Rhaegar's return, or when Rhaegar assumed command of the armies, except that it was before the Trident. Let me open your eyes, fully, then. Jon is younger than Robb. Robb was born a little over nine months after the Battle of the Bells. Robb was a babe when Catelyn took him to Winterfell, after the war, after Jon and his wetnurse were installed at Winterfell. Just because not a lot happened that was noted in the story does not indicate that Ned and Robert were on vacation for those nine months. There were scattered remnants of the crown's army to have encounters with, scattered all over the kingdom. ETA: I don't want to mislead you. I do believe that Rhaegar was present for Chelsted's roasting, leading to his dialog with Jaime. We just don't have a firm timeline that would tell us when Hightower found Rhaegar, when Rhaegar arrived at King's Landing, and when he could have sent Whent and Dayne back to the tower. It is important to note why Chelsted was roasted. He protested Rossart's preparations with the wildfire, finally resigning. Aerys didn't take that kindly, and roasted him for his efforts on behalf of the residents of King's Landing. Being paranoid, and considering that Rossart was the cause for Aerys to be Hand-less, it makes sense for Aerys to have raised him to Hand immediately. It does not make sense for Aerys to delay appointing a new Hand, because he is taking applications and conducting interviews . . . Aerys wants one thing, to win, either on the field (Rhaegar) or in the city (Rossart).
  7. R+L=J... But not only ??

    Not everything was a prophecy in the House of the Undead. Some scenes were from the past, some from the present, and some from a possible future. Or, maybe you know what prophecy the white haired, bronze skinned rider is about?
  8. R+L=J v.162

    If I were GRRM I would not worry about consistency issues, and I would bravely march on with the story. (I am hoping that he has not lost interest because he knows where it is going, now.) I question the fact that the story has placed the armies moving to the Trident and back to King's Landing in the space of a fortnight. He could splash unreliable narrator all over the various accounts, but that is going to cause some serious harm to the story. He could change the sequence, but that is going to cause grief with other story lines. (It would call into question Daenerys' paternity, for one.) Best bet is a deus exmachina worm hole spell for Rhaegar that Ned accidentally used.
  9. R+L=J v.162

    I do, but I will keep it to myself for the time being. Yandel may not be outright lying, but misinformed. It certainly seems that there is much more than one question mark hanging over his recent history accounts. Do you have a citation for this assertion? As far as I recall, we do not know when Rhaegar assumed command of the forces, except that it was before the Trident. In fact Jonothor Darry was included in those forces, and Chelsted had been roasted when Jaime and he were standing guard at the queen's chambers. But, I will not say the Hand was or was not needed without some indication either way. Interestingly, Rossart was a member of the Small Council when Chelsted was roasted. I don't see any issue with Aerys making him Hand the same day that Chelsted roasted. There is a war going on. Again, Aerys is paranoid. That to me indicates that Aerys is not likely to delay appointing a new Hand, especially when he hated sitting the Iron Throne. He was always getting cut when he did sit on it.
  10. R+L=J v.162

    But, you see that there is no point in Aerys delaying two weeks or more in appointing a new Hand after roasting Chelsted. Or, perhaps you have something that supports the flawed Yandel account? As I pointed out, it is an open secret that Tywin had Elia and her children killed so that he could present them to Robert to prove his allegiance. Yandel does not even offer a hint to this. Robert knows, so who is Yandel trying to fool?
  11. R+L=J v.162

    No, I am not creating my own timeline. Others try to, from time to time. What we know, from the story, as vetted as it can be (I argued against this point myself, but have to concede that it is the best information that we have) Jaime and Jonothor Darry guard the queen's chambers while Aerys pays one of his rare visits. Aerys and Rhaella were not friendly, you see. That is the night that Chelsted had been roasted. Jonothor Darry dies at the Trident, and Rhaella leaves King's Landing when news of the Trident reaches them. Jaime sees the marks are still visible when Rhaella leaves, meaning that they are a week or less old. Rossart was Hand for a fortnight, which is not an approximation. A fortnight, from this Tuesday, is the Tuesday following the following Tuesday, it is precisely fourteen days. (Where the word is commonly used, and influences GRRM to a great extent, it is a precise amount of time. If it were said as "About a fortnight" it might be a day or two off. But, that is not how it is used, in this case.) What makes anyone think that mad, paranoid Aerys is going to delay appointing a Hand during a war, that he has become increasingly concerned about? He didn't delay appointing Hands earlier, why would he, now? That is where I distrust that sentence, and look for a way that it may be a misstatement in the World Book. Someone sitting over a map with a stopwatch and a ruler to refute any of the narrative is silly. The armies will move as quickly as GRRM says that they do, if he has to put wormholes in the woods, he will do so. GRRM does not make travel times conform to reality, he has acknowledged that.
  12. R+L=J v.162

    @Tucu I will say this about the world book: Who killed Elia and her children according to the writer? Nothing is vetted by the world book. And, certainly Rhaella's wounds would not be visible if two weeks had passed between the rape and her departure for Dragonstone. It's possible that Jaime was confused, but we don't get anything along those lines in his POVs. He seems to be one of the more trustworthy POVs. Not at all like Sansa, or some people's favorite author of the world book. Again, if it is quite open knowledge that Elia and her children were killed by the Mountain and Amory, why no mention in the world book? Was the intention to fool Robert? He had the family presented to him, he isn't going to be fooled, he knows Tywin was responsible. Further, if Rhaella conceived Daenerys much before leaving for Dragonstone, that is going to alter the time of Daenerys' birth. Or, maybe, Daenerys' father is not Aerys after all?
  13. R+L=J v.162

    My apologies, I believed that everything I had cited was easily retrievable from the books. What are you having a difficult time tracing down? The whispers point to an event, and that certainly seems to be the one that Jaime witnessed (not a new one), from Jaime's point of view. Some suggest that Robert was too wounded to travel, but that is not the case. It was Barristan that was severely wounded, and Robert sent his own Maester to tend to him. That tells us that Robert is not severely wounded. Robert traveled, he just did not LEAD the army, that he left to Ned. So, as the army gets to King's Landing, Robert is trailing, rather than leading, and arrives at the same time, for all intents and purposes.
  14. R+L=J v.162

    Offhand that would seem reasonable. Thinking about Aerys' state of mind during a war where he knows that he is losing, does not suggest that he would waste any time before appointing a new Hand. Further, if more than a week passed between the night of the rape, and news of the Trident, Jaime wouldn't remark about being able to see the marks on Rhaella as she departed King's Landing. Now, for myself, having a good grasp of military history; I know that an army travels on its stomach. The lead is never going to be very far ahead of the wheeled kitchen, or grazing cattle. I just don't believe that GRRM took that into account.
  15. R+L=J v.162

    Well, as I have said before, then Daenerys' father cannot be Aerys, if it take Ned more than 2-3 weeks. Dropping back a bit, Jonothor Darry is present for Daenerys' conception (we assume that it is during the rape that Jaime witnesses). Yet, Jonothor travels to the Trident with Rhaegar, and King's Landing is sacked in the space of a fortnight. Ned arrives at King's Landing as it is being sacked. I believe that it is likely that GRRM intends for us to understand that Robert arrived the same day, since the children and Elia are presented in crimson cloaks to hide the blood. The blood must be fresh, not day(s) old. I don't believe that travelling from the Ruby Ford is going to take less time than travelling to Storm's End, for Ned. It shouldn't take any longer than that for him to go directly to the tower, since he seems to have had a guide. (*cough* Ethan) So, in GRRM's words, "Put your stopwatch and ruler away, and enjoy the story."