Masha

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  1. He was not either. He was obviously obsessed with the prophecy, just like Rhaegar, enough to force his children to marry each other when both didn't want to. He was described as a weak sickly man, as proven by his death but other than that there is no real comments about his character other than stubbornness.
  2. Then why the Others didn't attack on such scale for the last 8 thousands years, there had been bad winters before that lasted years. What is different now, from say the bad Winter during Dance of the Dragons War, when thousands of Northmen joined Clegan Stark going South to War because they were expendable? Or the bad Winter during Robert's Rebellion, with the whole "false Spring" storyline meaning that Winter lasted a long time? All this time, all these bad Winters with dragons and without, but the Others stayed relatively hidden and passive. There might have been raids on Wildlings and such, but not to such extend for at least thousand years. Why this Winter, why now? Is this Winter going to be like the Long Night, just because, or perhaps it is going to be this bad because of the magic that the Others are carrying? What changed?
  3. I believe that Illyrio had more than 3 Dragon eggs from whatever cache he had - either remainder from Blackfyres/Brightflames, stolen secretly from Dragonstone or found in Asshai or somewhere else. At the beginning of the books, there had been no dragons in the Planetos for over a hundred years, even the last attempt by actual Targaeryens (Egg) failed miserably. At that point, they are nothing more than super expensive rarity. The reason Illyrio gave those eggs to Dany is because his plan involved her and her husband along with Viserys attacking Westeros and then having fAegon come to the rescue and usurp the throne. To get Drogo's armies into Westeros requires a lot of money and Illyrio fully expected Dany and Drogo to sell those eggs for that purpose. He didn't expect her to get attached to them and hatch them. They were supposed go to Vaes Dothrak, get married (by Dosh khaleen) and return to Pentos and rejoin Viserys. Viserys trip and death was unexpected. So was hatching of the dragons. Jorah's role was to protect Dany and if she and Khal Drogo get too settled, get them riled up at Robert again (aka poisoning plot). Then Jorah fell in love with her, got protective and the rest is history about his behaviour.
  4. Yes, most consider Others to be dormant, passive, not necessarily asleep. By "awakening" I usually mean become aggressive. ITs kind of obvious that the Others didn't fall asleep as there are a LOT of stories about the Others AFTER the War for the Dawn supposedly ended and Brandon the Builder constructed the Wall. Main example is the story of the Night King which took place hundreds if not thousands of years after the end of original War and involves perfectly awake Ice Queen - aka Others Female. Daylight being shorter means nothing, as it usually the case with Winters and there had been hundreds and thousands of Winters and the Others didn't attack like they do now. Well, Good Queen Alyanne visited the Wall and I believe spent some time there visiting most of Night's Watch Castles and she had her Dragon in tow perhaps more than one too. So why didn't actual Dragon antagonize the Others but some old "dragons" whose magic and blood had weakened since the heyday of Valyria did. First time I hear about Whent blood being uniquely resistant to psychic manipulation. Plus BR definitely psychically manipulated Bran, so that theory is off. As for the Others awakening, their first known attack on Nights Watch happened while Ned was at Winterfell for at least last 7 years nonstop. (The last war campaign that took him away was the Greyjoy Rebellion, 7 years past). Furthermore, it was kind of noticeable that it was just a recent escalation of the Others aggression, by the time they attacked young Royce, they already started to terrorize wildlings substantially. Within a year, it escalates. I believe Aegon promised that every king who surrendered voluntarily could keep "keep his sword" aka power. So by peacefully surrendering Torrhen forced Aegon to fulfill his oath. As for letters, it was more like that they were negotiating their duties and obligations as lord and vassal. Like Taxes paid, or when Torrhen is supposed to join Aegon's army when called and when Aegon would be forced to defend North if so called and etc.
  5. The book starts with what is described as one of the longest summers on record comes to an end. That doesn't really correspond to the "summers getting shorter" part of the quote First of all, I believe that the Others have always been sort of awake and just passive and content to stand away. But recently something had changed. From what I understand, the Long Night happened first, after it ended, Brandon the Builder built the Wall to separate the Others from other lands, and on the Wall itself Night Watch been established. Afterwards, we still get reports of incidents of Others happening again and again, especially in Nights Watch songs of Night King and his Queen, who almost certainly was the Other female. But nothing on the current scale that happening now. Furthermore, at this time Valyria does not exist but Dragons do, although untamed by Humans. Furthermore, the Wildlings continue to multiply and are definately far more numerous that they are now. Still Others do not react too much. But they are there and some Wildings sacrifice to them - ala Crestor. Then the Valyria falls, Dragons die, Kings of Winter become Kings of the North and then Wardens of the North. The Others do not react. The way it is described, it took the Others just couple of years to completely conquer the land beyond the Wall, why would they wait for 200 years or so before attacking? Not rebirth of dragons because the Others started before Dany's dragons hatched, perhaps their resurgence awakened them too? I see two people here - Bloodraven and Mance. Whatever Mance says, I believe that the Others were already attacking before he starting digging up graves and trying to find the Horn of Jaramun. Possibly because he already was desperate. Now, Bloodraven, its a different story. He had enough magic and know-how to disturb whatever balance of power lay beyond the Wall. Perhaps he experimented with something he shouldn't have and provoked the Others attack on mankind. And he is not really a sort-of-good guy, Based on Euron's ravings, Bloodraven had some initial contact with him like he did with Bran, and Euron turned out for the worse Then the thing about Bloodraven and him going the Children of the Forest and linking to weirwood tree sounds as much as sacrifice and payment for his sins to them as much as the move to gain knowledge/power and extend his life.
  6. I am talking based off the books and not in the show. In the books, Ned and others remember Lyanna dying in a "bed of blood", "smell of roses and blood". Furthermore, books 100% associate the expression "bed of blood" to women dying in childbirth from uncontrolled bleeding. So if Lyanna in the books died in the "bed of blood" and the books associate it only with women dying in childbirth, Lyanna died from complications in childbirth = uncontrolled bleeding. In real life and throughout history, women who died from uncontrolled bleeding in childbirth died within hours at most couple of days after actual childbirth. There is no way, in the books (according to GRRM approved maps of Westeros), Rhaegar managed to be in TOJ during Childbirth, then travel to KL then to Trident, then Ned travel from Trident to KL then to TOJ in space of couple of days or even under 12 days which your example associates to (Jane Seymour who died of birth complications, but of postpartum fever not uncontrolled bleeding and fever takes longer for women to die, obviously). Thats why I am saying that for your claim to be correct, and Rhaegar to be there at birth of his child, Lyanna just couldn't die from childbirth complications
  7. I am almost 100% sure there is no chance of Rhaegar being there for the birth. Timeline and nature of Lyanna's death does not allow for that at all. She died within hours or at most couple of days after Jon's death unless your theory claims she didn't die of post-birth complications but of sword/knife wound - she did die of bleeding. Rhaegar has left her weeks if not months before. Furthermore, Rhaegar had to leave Lyanna because he had no choice, his father pretty much lost the Rebellion and the future of Targs was at stake, his father sent Gerald Hightower with urgent order to get Rhaegar home and at that time Rhaegar had to obey regardless of his wishes
  8. It is not possible for a theory to have Rhaegar to be present at the birth of Lyanna's baby and have Lyanna be alive till Ned gets to TOJ and then die from birthing/after-birth complications. Its been clearly said that Lyanna died in a bed of blood - by Ned and other characters in GOT. In ASOAIF the phrase "the bed of blood" refers exclusively to women dying in childbirth because of uncontrolled bleeding. During such bleeding, woman dies within HOURS of giving birth not days and certainly not weeks. Unless you claim that its possible that Lyanna died of a deadly wound... but that will not be referred to in the books as "bed of blood" which there only refers to women dying in childbirth. Jane Seymour took 2 weeks to die because she died of post-birth fever, not uncontrolled bleeding. So her example is irrelevant As for your questions about Rhaegar's reasoning. All these will be clear if one question is answered, why did Lyanna and Rhaegar told NO ONE that they run off together and she did so on her own free will and he planned to marry her? Because everything that happened would be avoided if HER family knew that she run off on her own free will and not been stolen against her will. Because then it becomes embarrassment and political problem for Starks/Targaeryens, not rage inducing kidnapping/rape scenario that happened.
  9. Your theory doesn't work because of the timing. If there is a pregnancy/after-pregnancy complication and woman dies, its usually 1) during birth 2) within several days after birth or 3) at most 10 or so days after birth (like your example Jane Seymore who died in less than 12 days after birth). Your timeline lasts for at least a month. Rhaegar needed to come back from Dorne and take control of the armies, arrive at Trident, die at Trident, Robert/Ned needed to arrive at KL and sack KL then get into fight and Ned needed to leave and arrive at TOJ while Lyanna was still alive so she could die in his arms.
  10. I like this idea. And here is a bit of a fact towards inbreeding problem. Technically, till Egg's generation we didn't have insane Targs. We had evil Targs, bad rulers Targs but not schizophrenic/paranoia insane with which Aerys II and Viserys seemed to be plagued with. They had deformed babies - direct result of inbreeding, but not madness/insanity thing. So we have a pure Targ Daeron II (pretty nice guy as we all agree), he married a 100% unrelated bride - Dornish Princess of Rhaenar bloodline. He had 4 children - all sane ones. One was into mystical and another was weak-willed, but not mad and insane. Then we have Maekar marrying a Dayne (First Man bloodline) and suddenly we have our first verifiable insane Targ - Aerion who drunk Wildfyre. (And his son Daeron had a feeble witted daughter) Then we have Egg who marries a Blackwood (First Man's bloodline again) and has 5 pretty nice kids all normal. And only when we have 2 of his grandkids marrying each other we get a certifiably paranoid - Aerys II and double that - Viserys (who it was mentioned was kind of mentally unstable as a kid too). Its like when Targs started to try to marry outside, their insanity became far more pronounced. I'd say magically (or luck of magic) might be an issue here
  11. Actually I'd like to bring in the Russian fairy tales in (there is a variation in Grimm fairy tales too). The most common fairy tail there is about 2-3 brother/princes being ordered by their father to claim a certain princess and they will inherit the kingdom. older brothers camp out and get drunk, while younger brother does a favor to some fairy creature who promises to help him out. When he goes for the princess, her father orders him to complete certain tasks which he completes with that indebted fairy creature's help. He gets the princess and the items he got as her dowry. As he goes back home he stops for a night, when his brother(s) fall on him, kill him and take the princess and her dowry and claim the rewards and the throne for their own. FAiry creature revives younger brother who comes back to claim his bride and throne. Older brother(s)s are punished by death. Isn't it the same with Aegon being the usurper who steals hero's reward?
  12. I think even though Maqorro refers to them as multiple "dragons" I think he describes one category= one unique person Old Dragons - Master Aemon Young Dragons - Jon Snow True Dragons - Dany False Dragons - Aegon Bright Dragons - Brightflame Dark Dragons - either Blackfyre or Bloodraven
  13. For me it was AFFC never ending super boring Brianne chapters, I found myself attempting to skip them because I got so bored.
  14. Somewhere in the books it is mentioned that Aerys found out about Rhaegar sponsoring the tournament at Harrenhal and made him suspicious about his plans there. I don't see anyone else ferreting this supposedly close held plan between Rhaegar and his friends but Varys. In fact, Varys might be mentioned so in the text. But Varys could only do so much, many times he had to change plans because real people do unexpected things. He couldn't predict actions of Rhaegar in kidnapping Lyanna, he couldn't predict brash Brandon riding to KL and inciting Aerys to homicidal insanity, just as he couldn't stop Joffrey from executing Ned Stark and throwing Westeros into chaos YEARS before his plans were ready. Once Aerys executed Starks, nothing Varys did could have stopped rebellious lords and in his tenure before, he managed to alienate Aerys from all of his good councilors/generals who could have defeated it. While Illyrio and Varys pretend and lie a lot, I do believe his story about Serra was genuine. After all, all in Pentos knew that he basically got into blacklist with nobles there over his actions with Serra. Other than genuine feelings why divorse/refuse to marry a noble wife of one of leaders of Pentos for a whore? Plus, being Rhaegar's "son" doesn't stop Illyrio adopting the boy and gifting him all his wealth. Many nobles don't need to have acknowledge heir of their blood to give the inheritance to someone else or to a cause. I am also sincerely doubt that Illyrio or Varys will EVER tell anyone that Aegon might be Illyrio's son. Including him (unless he already knows). That a stupendous risk to take. To acknowledge that Aegon is absolute nobody... especially if Bloodfyre/Brightflame conspiracy is not involved...What makes you think that Arianne and any of the nobles in Westeros would accept that, especially if Danaerys is breathing down their necks with her dragons in row? And what would stop JonCon going into absolute fury by realizing that he threw his life away and in fact betrayed Rhaegar and all he stood for, for a fake? About elephants - why not? Cold? I like elephants vs dragons parties! LOL Varys did suck during Rebellion, and he couldn't manipulate enough Cersei/Joffrey and failed on Dany/Viserys/Drogo plan, He is not omniscient. My theory, is that Varys wanted to come in with "beloved" and "Good king" rule popularity. During Targaeryen reign he could have pointed to disastrous and crazy Aerys and Viserys and blamed their blood (as Blackfyres do). After all in first Blackfyre rebellion, half of nobles sides with them. Now, after getting EVERYONE upset at Targaryens, Blackfyres would have far more supporters including High Lords Now, during Lannister reign, everyone is talking about "good old times" during Targaeryens and everyone (other than Robert) remembers with misty eye - "silver prince" Rhaegar. Hence that song that Cersei listed to from the streets - about Lions eating Stags and defeating wolves, getting above themselves and then Dragons finishing them off. Now Targaeryens are popular and nobody even cares about Blackfyres. Jon mentions Elia because Aegon is always on his mind. Lyanna is not, perhaps he will talk about her in the next book. But his Elia's opinion not so good either. In his first POV, he talks about her nicely (but then he is speaking aloud to Golden Company and his companions) In second POV, he thinks about her being sickly and doctor telling Rhaegar that he won't have any more children by her. It kind feels so in the text that he knows that Rhaegar wanted - needed- more children and he blamed Elia for being too weak or at least looked down on her for failing Rhaegar
  15. It worked, thank you! I don't say he had a hand in Rebellion, Rebellion ruined his plans. He expected to have bad Targeryen rule and popular discontent for at least another 5-10 years. Thats why I say Rhaegar surprised everyone with his crazy move - kidnapping of Lyanna. Once Rebellion started, Varys had to help keep Aerys/Targs on the throne. Thats why he actually had some bad advice after Rebellion started. Before Rebellion there - he gave some bad advice and provided some provocative info to get Aerys more suspicious of his lords, his son and his hand. By making Aerys suspicisou of Southron Strategy of Rickard Stark, by finding out Rhaegar's plan to save the kingdom by forcing him to abdicate (thats why his unexpected appearance at Harrenhal, which was where Rhaegar planned to start making his moves), and his plans to change inheritance to move it from beloved prince, Rhaegar, to unstable Viserys, and finalizing Aerys break with Tywin, by preventing him to joining in to Southron Strategy (when Tywin planned to wed his son to Tully's daughter) I think I remember Varys mentioning he had a sister, he never said he lost sight of her. And as for multiple Lysene whores, Illyrio loved Serra enough to break off his marriage to Pentos lord's daughter and loose a lot of money and respect and good will there. Thats a lot of sacrifice for a woman, whose child he could have just bought off from her whore house. Daemon's and Blackfyres whole claim is that Daeron is not the son of Aegon IV therefore him and ALL his descendants are illegitimate. As son of the King and previous King's daughter and sister, they claim is that Daemon and his line is only True Targ line. So the plan, when Targaeryen would have sat on the throne (Aerys/Viserys) would be Aegon Blackfyre, only rightful heir to Aegon IV and True line of Targaeryen would ride in to save the kingdom from obvious mad and illegitimate bloodline. When Robert assumed the throne, they changed it to Aegon son of Rhaegar story I mean, Aegon has his elephants for his army, she has real dragons, so elephants vs dragons Did Jon actually expressed hatred for Lyanna? I don't remember him resenting her at all. He only mentioned that Elia was too weak to bear Rhaegar any more children. He would more resent Elia for being weak and forcing Rhaegar to look to another woman.