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About Tagganaro

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    I know SUN TZU hrurrr jizz everywhre.

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  1. You do...Everything about this show has become simplified to the extreme over the past few years as the show barrels towards its endgame and doesn't have the complex books to work off of anymore. This isn't even meant to be a big criticism. It's simply impossible and ill-advised for the show to maintain the complexity of the books in adaptation, especially when I'm guessing the show-runners intended to have GRRM's books to work off of for the entire run of the show.
  2. I'd say for simplicity's sake Daario is a maturity test for Dany. In both the show and the books he represents fun, freedom, and not caring about consequences. I think it was relatively well-done on the show to have Dany finally set sale for Westeros at the same time she pushes away Daario and all he represents. The Dany from a couple seasons ago would not have been willing or ready to give up on Daario and keeping him as her consort. Now she's finally ready to rule and sacrifice for that rule.
  3. It seems pretty clear to me that this is exactly what is happening- a disconnect between what the writers/directors intend a scene to convey and how people actually see it. This has been happening a while back, as far back to the Jaime/Cersei rape scene that I can remember. And it's been happening more and more frequently the more they go off-book (like with Arya's whole arc this year). Based on several interviews, it seems clear that what the writers intended to convey is Sansa being jealous of Jon and some sort of sibling rivalry- That's what led Sansa to hold back information of the Vale troops and led to the scene in this episode with Jon saying they need to trust each other. The show has completely failed to convey that effectively, hence why there's so much debate over what Sansa wants and what she is thinking. As I said earlier in the thread, I 100% read Sansa's behavior at the end of the episode as jealousy of Jon stealing her spotlight. Friends disagreed with me on that, as did others on here. It seems clear that in the after the episode thing, that's what D & D thought they were conveying, and that's how Sophie Turner and Liam Cunningham are reading these scenes.
  4. I think this was just a shout-out to the books honestly. It happened again in this episode with the Arya "Frey Pie" scene. They wanted to do a reference to popular and cool book events but the characters and plots surrounding and leading up to those events were changed significantly. So you sort of get this awkward fit that maybe doesn't hold up to a high level of scrutiny.
  5. I definitely think it's a possibility that he's a "double agent" sent by the Night's King to get Bran to go past the Wall and bring it down. That being said, if there's one thing that's applied this season it has been "the simplest explanation is always the right one." There doesn't tend to be much more than what the writers and directors show on the screen. Applying that logic, Benjen is exactly who he says he is and something else will bring the Wall down.
  6. Yes, I 100% got this vibe that Tyrion has fallen in love with Dany based on that comment and the look in Tyrion's eyes. That vibe was only furthered when they had Tyrion stand on the steps and be at kissing-level...I wouldn't have been surprised if Tyrion had tried something. But I also think it could easily be read the other way...Tyrion loves Dany more out of admiration for her and the hope she's given him. It's more admiration and respect than any kind of attraction.
  7. I wonder if on the show Ramsay just took the place of Harry the Heir. Meaning, I don't think HtH will brutalize Sansa, but I could see him being an obstacle for her to overcome and I think he's a bit of a red herring as far as Littlefinger's game goes. In the books LF seems to have much less control over Robin although he commands fear from Robin. It does seem as if LF eventually intends to kill Robin (and presumably HtH after he gets HtH to send the Knights of the Vale to war) and that Sansa has more control over Robin than LF does through his attraction/oedipal issues with her. Has Robin been sort of written off on the show now that we have left the Vale, presumably for good? Will Royce just be a stand-in? We know Royce doesn't like LF and now that he's away from Robin maybe he helps Sansa get rid of him? Yeah, I didn't like how that played out either. To be fair, I've not liked the characterization of the Northmen all series, and Jon/Sansa this season have been particularly undeveloped in terms of their motivations and character. I kept expecting Jon to turn everyone down and say he's no Stark and try to shift his and their support to Sansa as the Queen in the North. Jon's character has not made much sense since his resurrection. He was immediately turned into a sort of "I'm too old for this shit retiring cop" kind of character who just wanted to run away and go south. Then Sansa comes along and Jon gets forced back into things with Rickon/Pink Letter. I assumed Jon wouldn't want the KitN honors/title/responsibility and would pass it off to Sansa. Maybe we'll get more of that next year...but based on D & D's statements, Liam Cunningham's, and the "character development" such as it has been this season, it does seem to me as if the show intends to play out this "rivalry" between Jon and Sansa a little bit longer, with LF as Sansa's "dark side/devil on the shoulder" kind of advocate. Hence we have Jon never really voicing opinions one way or the other or taking a clear stand, and Sansa withholding crucial information that could get Jon and everyone killed and never giving any kind of explanation for it other than "trust" issues which shouldn't exist.
  8. I really think there's just been such a failure with Sansa's character and portrayal this season...it is just so ambiguous and unclear what she wants and where her character stands. Maybe the showrunners are going for that...maybe Sophie Turner is failing in her acting, I don't know. I will say that I 100% read jealousy from Sansa in that final scene with Jon being declared KitN, but when I relayed that to friends they said "no way...it was more of an F you to Littlefinger and she's siding with Jon all the way." I really just don't know what they were going for with her all season. Also, we still never got an explanation for why she held back that the Knights of the Vale might possibly be coming to help Jon. It was mentioned, but no explanation. I guess she couldn't say "D & D wanted to create extra drama and recreate the scene from Lord of the Rings Two Towers with Gandalf so they had me do this."
  9. Yes. I was really surprised how the King's Landing stuff played out. I thought Margs would be a "bigger player". It turns out she really didn't have too much of a plan for playing the High Sparrow and just wanted better treatment for Loras (which the HS just ignored anyway) and then she died. At least they had her be smart enough to realize Cersei was about to do something insane and try and get out of there. But yeah...she's definitely dead. No ambiguity there.
  10. Yes, definitely seems like Sansa offered herself in marriage to LF to get the Vale troops. I always felt that's what LF ultimately wanted in the books as well...they will just get there differently. LF used his influence over Robin to get the Vale where he wanted it, now he will probably look to get rid of him as seems to be hinted at in the books. Not sure what LF's specific plan with regards to Harry the Heir is though...he definitely seems to be angling for war with Harry the Heir leading the Knights of the Vale as Robin is incapable of that. My guess is the show just substituted Robin/Royce for Harry the Heir to simplify characters like they tend to do a lot.
  11. Yeah, I'm thinking this was a show-created loophole and GRRM will be doing something darker or at least more gray. Also interesting that the show has cut out pretty much everything magical about Jon- there is minimal Ghost appearance, no warging, and the resurrection itself was more of a plot point than anything that the show chose to dwell on in any fashion. Jon hasn't been "changed" by his death at all, which goes directly against what GRRM has said about characters coming back to life. I think the show has simplified things so much with regards to Northern politics that you don't get the same sense from what's in the books- which is essentially that the North hates the Boltons/Freys too much to ever get behind them and that the Boltons need to be deposed and a Stark needs to lead the charge to unite the disparate houses. The show cut out the Grand Northern Conspiracy entirely which was a big driver of events in the books. The show I think was more focused on the fact that Ramsay would never believe in the White Walkers until it was too late...you'd need someone in charge who can prepare everyone and mobilize them and truly lead them, a task Ramsay/Roose doesn't seem like they're up to or concerned with. Even all this is being pretty generous to the Show's portrayal of the Northmen- it's always been extremely simplified and seems more like they are working backwards off a script of events they want to happen and so they will make the show get to that point even if it doesn't make much sense.
  12. It's tough to understand what exactly Littlefinger's plans are at the moment in the books, but it seems like they would revolve around Harry the Heir leading the Knights of the Vale into war (which I believe LF specifically mentions in AFFC when he tells Sansa about having to win over Harry's heart). Take into account that the loyalties of the Lords Declarant/Lords of the Vale seem to be heavily Pro-Jon Arryn/Lysa Arryn (which means Stark/Tully as well, like Bronze Yohn who has visited Winterfell several times and agitated to join the War of the 5 Kings on Robb Stark's side), I don't think it would be an issue for the Knights of the Vale to follow Harry the Heir/Sansa Stark into battle to regain Winterfell (politically speaking at least). I do agree however that logistically/weather-wise it would be difficult/impossible to get the Knights of the Vale to Winterfell, but as you mentioned we ARE in the realms of fantasy lol. If GRRM wants that to happen he will make it happen. Maybe Bran helps Sansa out. I don't even know. What I do know is that so far, my reading of Sansa's arc (particularly through the Snow Castle scene and the prophecy of the Ghost of High Heart) has her looking Northwards and not South.
  13. haha yes. I just want the freaking book to come out. I feel bad for GRRM that he's sort of lost authority over the telling of his story, but damn I'm also angry and just want him to freaking finish these books. It's been taking far too long. And agreed, I really can't tell what is going to happen with the WW/North. I've always felt as if the saying that a "Stark must always be in Winterfell" will have vital importance when the WW invasion starts...and I've just been waiting for so damn long for Ramsay/the Boltons/the Freys to get their comeuppance. And it just seems as if Sansa's story is leading her North/towards Jon from my reading (but again could be completely wrong in my part, as it's all speculation). I was in 100% agreement with most of this pre-Season 5 I was really stunned by what happened with Stannis last year in the show as I was convinced he was winning the Battle of Ice. The show killing him off so easily has made me revisit my assumption from before that he would win. D & D have made wholesale major changes to GRRM's books, but I figured they had some kind of outline from him here that they were following. You could be right. It's entirely possible D & D made up this "Battle of the Bastards" because they thought it'd be better than Stannis v. Ramsay. All of this could be a result from their decision last year to ditch Sansa's arc in the Vale and send her to Winterfell (something I honestly sympathized with and understood at first as I don't think Sansa alone in the Vale would have held viewers' interest). I don't know. Over time, I have come to appreciate that Ramsay has been built up as such a despicable villain, that I want a Stark to personally take him down for what he's done to Winterfell. It just feels "wrong" to me that Stannis, an outsider who has nothing to do with Winterfell or the North would take him out with little Stark involvement (outside of Jon's helping hand from afar). In short, as I said above, I feel as if a Stark needs to be in Winterfell for the WW invasion and I don't like the idea of Stannis running Winterfell. I can appreciate your position on the the Knights of the Vale coming North being irrational, as I've discussed, but again, I feel there are textual clues outside of what's been happening on the show to suggest that may happen.
  14. I don't recall who runs Moat Cailin at this point in the books- In name it is the Boltons after kicking the Ironborn out through Reek/Ramsay, but in practicality it might be the Crannogmen/House Reed who I seem to recall have always exercised a certain amount of control over Moat Cailin and who were inflicting casualties on the Ironborn and perhaps the Boltons. In any case, I can't imagine anything more than a token force being garrisoned there. You're entirely right the Vale could go somewhere else, but I think the evidence so far points to them going North. First, I don't think the prophecy of the Ghost of High Heart referred to such a mundane matter as Sansa ripping apart Sweet Robin's doll in her snow castle. I think Sansa will eventually be killing LF or being responsible for LF's death in Winterfell per the prophecy. Second, Sansa is specifically made aware of Jon Snow being named LC of the Night's Watch by Myranda Royce- a fact that I think could become important. Third, we know Ned fostered there and was like a son to Jon Arryn. Fourth, we know many, if not a majority of the Lords of the Vale, wanted to support Robb Stark's rebellion. Bronze Yohn Royce in particular seems to have closer ties with the Starks and the North and has visited Winterfell a few times. We know he was agitating to support Robb's rebellion. Fifth, I think Littlefinger still wants Winterfell as a personal thing, to further stick it to Ned Stark's memory. These things lead me to believe the Vale will be riding North. But yes, it's entirely possible they do not go North. It's all speculation here.
  15. Before this season of GOT I felt like Stannis was definitely winning the Battle of Ice. But now I find myself questioning that assumption. Like I said above, I'd just find it to be kind of anti-climactic, especially if Jon isn't there to help him. I feel like the Starks need to be more involved with winning back Winterfell. It is possible for Stannis to beat Ramsay though and then for Stannis to turn into a bit more of a villain and have the Starks/Vale beat him to take back Winterfell...but I still feel like it would be a better story to have the Starks vs Boltons/Battle of the Bastards kind of thing the show had (and which the book got me HYPED for before Jon got stabbed). And yes, again I can't see why people would think the Vale army isn't getting involved in a BIG way with the North. Sansa needs to return to Winterfell, and I believe the Vale army will be key to that. Yeah...I mean it's all speculation at this point. I don't think we can dismiss this episode as "not being a book event" though entirely. I think a lot of elements of it will likely appear in the books in some way, but you're welcome to disagree obviously . Yes, I think generally Jon will want revenge on the Bolton family. Specifically he will want revenge on both Roose (for the Red Wedding) and Ramsay for being a "monster" (I believe that's what Jon calls him in response to the letter). I think the buildup is what we saw over the course of ADWD- Jon wants to help his family and be reunited with them. He feels constrained by the NW and the oaths and consistently can't help himself from "getting involved in Northern affairs", whether it be assisting Stannis or protecting Alys Karstark or sending Mance to save "Arya". All I'm saying is that I could see 100 different scenarios in which Jon gets resurrected, decides "his Watch has ended", and goes South with wildlings to help the Stark cause and unite the North against the impending battle with the Others.