Lord Varys

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  1. Let's speculate about the future roles of Willas and Garlan

    Even if he interpreted it that way - his answer certainly can't be read as a confirmation that any of the great houses actually will die out. Some certainly could get attainted and/or never be restored (Baratheons, Arryns) but that's another matter. And on the non-noble or bastard level all of the great lines will survive. Well, I really don't care about the author or myself spoiling the ending. I think some of our Stark heroes certainly will end up on top. And I don't think all of them will die (although there is a small chance that, perhaps, that all/many of the great heroes end up dying in the last climatic battle). But this doesn't mean that Bran, Arya, Sansa, Rickon, and Jon are all going to survive. Some of them will. But either Rickon, Arya, or Sansa is certainly in the game to die and stay permanently die if you ask me. The bloodletting is not yet over and the Others certainly have to kill some of our heroes, too, to prove that they mean business. Killing nameless and faceless Tyrells is not going to establish that. The series is about individual characters, not dynasties or houses. We will never meet Dany's, Jon's, Arya's, or Sansa's children (as characters - Dany and/or Jon could have children in the story - Arya and Sansa most likely won't), let alone their grandchildren. The fact that they are likely to end up on top in some fashion in the end doesn't mean their lines will continue for ten thousand years and their great-great-great-grandchildren will exist and/or fuck things up for everybody. And in general, you should keep your expectations how the series will end separate from any discussion of what may happen under certain conditions. Claiming you have special knowledge how the series should or will end has no room in discussion like that. The series has not yet been completed and George can change his mind on the road. He already has, quite a few times. They would not be extinct at the end of the series, of course. Just doomed to die out/unable to continue the line. Just as the withered womb of Lady Dustin is not going to bring forth any Dustins. A Lady Arya, a Lady Sansa, and a Lord Brandon would not be able to continue the line of House Stark (in the male line). That is basically a fact. Ned told us that Bran would never be able to father children. That is all I need to sure of that. That in and of itself makes it clear that Bran is not in the game to return to Winterfell alive. He doesn't have to because he is not even needed to for dynastic purposes. And as for Rickon: If he is lucky they could install him as the new Lord of Winterfell at the end of the entire story. But we won't see a four-year-old leading the fight against the Boltons or the Others. That would just be ridiculous. And the more gruesome and bloody those books get the less room and patience people should have with child pretenders like Rickon, Shireen, Tommen, Bran, Edric Storm, etc. Hard and savage times need hard and savage men like the Starks (and other Northmen) of old. And those were not allowing children to tell them what to do. Or allowed them to serve as their puppets and mouthpieces. I find it more likely that Sansa will end up as the Lady of Winterfell in the end. She is the one who gets proper political training, not to mention that she is likely going rule or at least share in the rule of whatever husband she will finally end up with. Arya is also a possibility, but I really think she deserves better - either a death in battle/war or a life away from the tedious responsibility of rebuilding and ruling. She is not yet twelve and deeply disturbed and traumatized girl. I mean, who believes that an annoying peasant is going to get justice if he presents himself to a, say, 17-year-old Lady Arya when she has had a really bad day? Never thought about Benjen but if he actually is still alive and reasonably well he could actually end up with Winterfell, too, at the very end. If Rickon is dead and Sansa and Arya are doing other stuff and there is no longer a Night's Watch he certainly could return to the place and have a family of his own. That would be reasonably surprising and interesting.
  2. We are not that far apart. But we can be pretty sure, I think, that Tyrion's story will suck as much as @Good Guy Garlan feels it did during ASoS if Tyrion does not become a dragonrider. Because ugly dwarfs without dragons are not going to get a front seat in Daenerys' (war) council. If Tyrion had just his brains to offer to Dany (and not also point to his dragon or address her as 'my sweet (half-)sister') then Dany - and especially Tyrion's rivals for Dany's favor - should be able to sideline him very effectively, especially when it comes to the actual conquest of Essos and Westeros. Tyrion is smart guy but he is neither an accomplished general nor an experienced battle commander. If he doesn't have a dragon he won't lead any of Dany's armies.
  3. Let's speculate about the future roles of Willas and Garlan

    Am I? No, I'm not. I'm ruled by favoritism. The Starks, Targaryens, Arryns, and Baratheons are all threatened by extinction in the main branch because they are down to a handful (or less) people, most of which are either children or youths, prone to make rash and suicidal decisions. I'm inclined that at least one Stark and one Targaryen will survive the series but that's not the same as the line surviving. If Dany turns out to be barren, and Jon becomes king (either as her consort or after her death) and Rickon dies then House Stark will die out in the male line when Bran dies (never mind whether that happens during the series or decades or centuries later). Bran cannot father any children. Sansa and Arya can live but not continue House Stark in the male line. The same would go for Daenerys and House Targaryen if she took a non-Targaryen consort. Her children would then be named after their father as is proper procedure in Westeros. Even Rhaenyra Targaryen's sons by Laenor Velaryon were Velaryons, not Targaryens. If you ask me what I want to happen then I'd answer that I hope the Starks are restored to Winterfell and continue their line. I think you remember that I want Rickon to live and become Lord of Winterfell. I also hope the Targaryens are restored to the Iron Throne in one way or another - either Dany, or Jon Snow, or them both - to continue the royal line. That is necessary for some closure. A child of Jon and Dany's would be nice but it could also work in a more convoluted way - say, by Dany adopting Aegon's son by Arianne, naming him her heir in the wake of her own barrenness (and Jon's possible inability to father children after his, well, death and resurrection). I'm not sure of that, actually. And why Edric and not Gendry or Mya. Mya is an acknowledged noble bastard, too, else she would not be a Stone (her mother is a commoner). Robert just did not acknowledge her when he was king but merely the Lord of Storm's End. Edric Storm is just so insignificant and irrelevant a character that I really don't think he has to come back into the story at all. And if he does he could still live and die a Storm. Storm's End could very well go to some new house. Just as the Eyrie might in the wake of the deaths of Robert Arryn and Harrold Hardyng (who both might not survive the series, either). We are not talking about House Tyrell of Highgarden. The Tyrells certainly could lose Highgarden (although right now I'd call that possibility fantasy or wishful thinking) but that doesn't mean they have to be eradicated as a house. Time matters insofar as the number of Tyrells you seem to want to die have to die on the pages of the books we are talking about. And there are a lot of them left. And just check the family tree again, will you. There are a lot of male branch cousins of Mace left, not just female ones. If Mace, Willas, Garlan, Loras, and Margaery bite the dust there are lots and lots of uncles and cousins through the male line around who would come first. And most of them actually hold positions of power and authority, enabling them to make good of their claims should the need or the opportunity present itself. They are not virtual nobodies like poor Harry Hardyng. But the houses I expect to die out (more or less in the sense that their members are killed and any absent heirs lose everything) are the Freys, the Boltons (who seem to be down to two members of the lordly branch), the Cleganes, the Baelishs (one member who is likely to die), and a few others. Thinking about it, the Tarths are very much threatened (Brienne has a dangerous lifestyle and her lord father isn't the youngest guy under the sun). The idea that George indicating that houses might die out in the series tells us nothing about whether that possibility is realized nor whether any great houses will be affected. Some houses like the Whents, Darrys, and Rosbys already died out in the male line during the books.
  4. Let's speculate about the future roles of Willas and Garlan

    I doubt the Reach will see 'legions of the dead' soon. First they are going to arrive at the Wall, not thousands of leagues farther down south. And even that doesn't seem to be on the table soon. And there are multiple branches of House Tyrell around, both male and female branches, not all of which are actually living at the same place. The idea that they would all die is, well, pretty far-fetched. George is not trying to kill as many Tyrells as possible. In fact, he has not killed a single Tyrell up to this point. The probability that the line of House Tyrell is extinguished is about as high as that the Lannisters of Casterly Rock are eradicated. And that means that it is very low. Other houses are more likely to die out - at least in the lordly branch. The great houses who face the greatest dangers in that regard would be the Arryns, Baratheons, Targaryens, Tullys, Starks, and Martells. The Lannisters, Tyrells, Hightowers, Greyjoys are in a much better position to survive.
  5. Let's speculate about the future roles of Willas and Garlan

    I suggest you reread the Tyrell appendix of ASoS. Even if Luthor and Olenna's entire line were to die the Tyrells would continue without much difficulty. Mace has multiple uncles and a veritable army of cousins.
  6. He actually has. For his own people. For Lannisters, legitimate and illegitimate alike. He raises his late brother Gerion's bastard with commoner, Joy Hill, at Casterly Rock. That's why he didn't kill the ugly dwarf. I mean, regardless who Tyrion's actual sire is, Tywin could always have claimed he knew he wasn't his seed and kill him, or simply have him quietly poisoned. The child was a disgrace in any case, and many people would have understood and accepted it if Tywin had killed him. Just look how many Northmen and others find the idea of putting Bran out of his misery rather compelling. This is not a society which enjoys and easily accepts freaks and cripples. The fact that Tywin allowed Tyrion to live is not a sign that he considered him legitimate (he in fact goes on record that he isn't sure about Tyrion's paternity), it is a sign that he does not kill a member of his own family, regardless whether he is trueborn or a bastard. But note that he is hellbent to ensure that this creature does not succeed him as Lord of Casterly Rock. If he truly believed he was his son then he would certainly have less problems with that idea. Especially since Tyrion would actually be a competent lord. You mean Hizdahr, right? The deciding factor was that Quentyn was basically ugly, came at the wrong time, and had no army. She had no intention to go to Westeros. What if Dany still isn't in Westeros when Tyrion first meets her? Why should she care about his promises that he could be of use to her there? Nobody can confirm his claims that he was a competent Acting Hand and prior to ACoK everybody in Westeros considered Tyrion Lannister to be nothing but a joke. He has admitted he killed Joff to Jaime. And he shows no hint that he is going to recant that throughout ADwD. Tyrion also has no idea about how Westeros is changing right now. He knows nothing about Euron or the new High Septon nor has he much of a picture about Littlefinger in the Vale, Aegon, or the Martells. Once they actually arrive in Westeros any insights he might have on the Lannisters and Tyrells might be useless because the people he knows stuff about might already be dead.
  7. Harry & Sansa (Littlefinger is delusional)

    Olenna and Margaery ask Sansa for her assessment of Joffrey. That basically means people don't exactly talk about the behavior of the king at his own court. Especially not to outsiders. Littlefinger intends to use Sansa only after Cersei (and by extension Tommen) is done. He is very aware of the fact that she is of no political use right now, in the present political climate. For her to be of use things have to change dramatically. Say, Aegon never came and we just had a conflict between the Lannisters, the Tyrells, and the Martells up until Dany arrived. If the Lannisters were the faction (led, say, by Daven or some of the other cousins) joining Daenerys because the Tyrells had become the power dominating the Iron Throne then Daenerys may very well have felt compelled to execute Sansa Stark as a kingslayer in exchange for the support and the allegiance of Casterly Rock. And many of the Westerosi people may support her in this. It is a heinous crime we are talking about. Kingslayers have to die, just as the Freys and Boltons have right now. They are basically hated by everyone. Just as Sansa might be if she showed her face again under the wrong circumstances.
  8. If it was a literal year before Tyrion's birth it would actually be confirmation that Aerys wasn't his father as a pregnancy doesn't last for twelve months. But you know what I meant there. The latter is just what I happen to consider the likeliest possibility. And I'm pretty sure we'll get sufficient textual evidence for that eventually, just as we'll get with Jon Snow. In his case I think the case is already tight enough to not need special additional clues to figure things out. With Tyrion it is not as rock solid. But the reason why I brought this up is that I think only Tyrion the Targaryen bastard and/or Tyrion the dragonrider can provide the necessary setting for Tyrion's return to power and influence. A penniless ugly dwarf who also happens to be a kingslayer and kinslayer as well as the close relation of Daenerys Targaryen's sworn enemies is not going to rise to prominence and her court or be able to retain her favor. Tyrion's very looks make it unlikely that the people around Dany (including herself) are likely to trust him. The impression we get in ASoS and ADwD is that his scar and the loss of his nose in combination with his mismatched eyes and over-sized head make it very difficult for people to actually feel comfortable in his very presence. His knowledge about Westerosi politics could only come in handy when they actually are in Westeros. But they are still in Slaver's Bay. If he does not acquire a dragon he has literally nothing. And even if they are in Westeros - Dany's reputation would certainly suffer because the ugly murderous dwarf is in her retinue. He would be seen as her equivalent of Gregor Clegane and Ramsay Bolton. I'm not sure his advice could make up for that. Dany has to win battles, and Tyrion is not exactly of much use in that department.
  9. Let's speculate about the future roles of Willas and Garlan

    I'd not say she always has her way. But I think she and Mace have the same goal - get House Tyrell to the very top of the food chain and have all of Westeros do homage to the golden rose. Olenna may not have been all that happy with the Renly approach. But then, we know the original plan was to make Margaery Robert's new queen. I'm pretty sure she approved of that. Sure, Margaery marrying into the royal family was important. But Willas' marriage is even more important, and if you compare Willas-Sansa/Cersei to Joffrey/Tommen-Margaery Willas' marriage either to Sansa or Cersei would have allowed the main branch of House Tyrell to control another great house and set themselves as the new ruling house of the united Reach-North or united Reach-West. Especially a son by Willas-Cersei could have permanently united the West and the Reach under his rule. Those are neighboring regions after all. Not to mention the enormous wealth Willas would have been able to control directly as Lord of Highgarden and lord husband of the Lady of Casterly Rock. Sure, but Renly-Loras/Margaery wasn't exactly an easy way to permanently control the Iron Throne. Renly would have to take the throne over the dead bodies of Stannis and Cersei's sons, setting another major precedent that rebellions are a legitimate means to gain power. And with Renly's sexual preferences it would be very easy to declare Margaery's children later on bastards - just as Rhaenyra's sons by Laenor were - resulting in multiple rebellions throughout Renly's reign as well as after his death. Joffrey was a better alternative after Renly's death and it would have worked fine had he not been as fucked-up a brat as he was. That is nonsense. George has made it crystal clear that the Lannisters are as insanely rich as they appear. The mines beneath Casterly Rock (and those in the West in general, aside from those who are mentioned to be exhausted). This is not all that strange, actually. Mace and Garlan also weren't part of Renly's grand progress. Mace and 10,000 Tyrell men including Garlan and Willas stayed behind at Highgarden. For some reason they were not all that keen to participate in the war personally. Only Loras and Margaery were with Renly. Nope, that's a plan to control the North and eventually install a Tyrell as the new Lord of Winterfell. Sansa is just Willas' breeding mare, there, just as she would have been as Tyrion's wife. Just as 'Arya' is for Ramsay now. She is the one behind the Margaery-Tommen marriage. And she is the one who insists that the new married royal couple actually sleeps in one bed together. Cersei shuts that down, of course, but it is crystal clear that she wants Margaery to have her own son as quickly as possible and then Tommen could go, too, if he turned out to be quarrelsome.
  10. Tyrion's plot is somewhat more interesting in ACoK and a lot more is happening in there than is in ASoS. But then, this is true for pretty much any other character. ASoS is a much slower book than ACoK. However, I certainly agree with you that Tyrion's story in ASoS is far from uninteresting. But him being sidelined certainly makes his chapters not as interesting as his chapters in ACoK. It does. There are rumors that Lady Joanna and Prince/King Aerys may have had an affair even before the woman married Ser Tywin. More importantly, Lady Joanna is in KL for the tourney and feast commemorating Aerys II's tenth anniversary on the Iron Throne, and we know Aerys was still very much interested in her. This was in 272 AC, a year before Tyrion's birth 273 AC. If Aerys and Joanna had sex during her stay in KL - either consensual or not - Aerys could very well be Tyrion's father. If Tywin had killed Tyrion he would have still killed Joanna's son. He loved that woman. Would you kill the child of your beloved wife? I wouldn't. I might not be able to love him, just as Tywin was incapable of loving the ugly little shit who might (or was) not his seed and killed his mother during his birth but not loving isn't the same as killing an innocent child. Tyrion would still be a Lannister bastard if he was Aerys' son. Joanna was born a Lannister of Casterly Rock. That is was just an example. Quentyn could also have helped Dany. But she still rejected his offer to marry her. A dwarf who killed his father and own royal nephew is not the kind of person you want on your council. She could just collect Tyrion's knowledge on the lords and nobles of Westeros and then feed her to her dragons or just, well, throw him into some gutter to let him die there. Quentyn's not exactly attractive looks and demeanor played a considerable role in Dany's decision to reject his offer. Tyrion basically has nothing of substance to offer her. Quentyn had Dorne. Tyrion cannot offer her anything. Not Lannister gold nor the loyalty and support of the Westermen. In fact, he would need her help to conquer the West and Casterly Rock.
  11. Harry & Sansa (Littlefinger is delusional)

    One assumes that it is known at court. The rumors about Sansa being jealous of Margaery and murdering Joffrey because he spurned her could certainly include that whole thing. For all the Stark-Tully people knew Sansa Stark was an honored hostage at KL. I'm with you that these people do not necessarily believe she wanted to be Joff's wife but Robb still effectively disowned her when she became a Lannister by marriage. Her own allegiance and feelings in the matter are irrelevant. And we can safely say that this should also be true for the non-Stark supporters in the Realm. The Stormlanders, Reach men, Dornishmen, Westermen, Crownlanders, and even some of the Riverlanders, Northmen, and Vale men would not see her as the innocent victim of a evil plot but as a scheming twisted woman who stands accused of regicide. Keep in mind that the Faith arrested two queens with impunity already.
  12. Let's speculate about the future roles of Willas and Garlan

    Well, I guess you then also take Littlefinger and Varys during a council session at face value, right? Olenna's actions reveal the lies in her words. She is in the game for power. But she can still consider the Renly thing a bad idea in the aftermath. However, one has to wonder - if she has was able to cancel the Willas-Cersei match (which very well could have led to a son of Willas becoming Lord of Casterly Rock in the future!) shouldn't she not also have been able to put an end to the Renly? Either by talking to Mace behind closed doors or by, you know, poisoning the man on his wedding feast? The Willas-Cersei is a much more important match for House Tyrell than Joffrey/Tommen-Margaery because it involves the heir of Highgarden. Margaery's children will be of a female cadet branch which means they are pretty irrelevant in the long run but Willas' children will inherit Highgarden.
  13. Tyrion isn't a Lannister. He is Aerys' bastard by Joanna, and thus Dany's half-brother. He will become a dragonrider. However, I don't think he will play a great role in battle, etc. Dany's dragons are still far too small for that. It will be necessary to establish him as a powerful player again. A dragonrider is something special. Tyrion isn't. Dany can make him her castrated fool and still get all the advice she needs from him. He has nothing to offer that would justify any decision on her side to make him a powerful advisor. I still think Tyrion as a dragonrider will become an important player at Dany's court but I really can't see her teaming up with scum like he obviously is - ugly, and a convicted kinslayer and kingslayer. Yes, he killed Dany's enemies but who wants a man in her inner circles that has murdered his king, a boy of thirteen, and then also his father. The answer just is: literally no one.
  14. The plot demanded that. ASoS is actually just wrapping up ACoK and ASoS. The Starks are getting fucked in those books, and ASoS just finish the deal. The book just covers a few months never mind the fact that it has a thousand pages. Without daddy's gold or sister's husband Tyrion is just an ugly dwarf. He is basically nothing in this world if he cannot play the aristocracy card (or the monarchy card). When Tywin treats him as the dwarf he is - and that thing continues, in part, during ADwD, involving other people - he becomes basically an impotent and powerless character. If Tyrion does not become a dragonrider in the series he will remain this pitiful irrelevant character he is right now because it makes little to no sense that any sellsword or man with a sword in this (sort of) realistic series should ever follow an ugly penniless dwarf who murdered both his father and (allegedly) his nephew. The kinslayer Tyrion has no claim to Casterly Rock and he certainly could advise Daenerys just as well as her court jester as he could as her Hand. Only if Tyrion regains a position of some power and prominence with Dany's people can he ever end up in position similar to the one he has in ACoK. Viserys III looked like a proper Targaryen and he was mocked as the Beggar King behind his back. Tyrion has given Brown Ben and the Second Son some empty promises. Those won't get him to Westeros or a position of power. He is a joke, and as soon as the Second Sons can no longer laugh the joke will be on him.
  15. Let's speculate about the future roles of Willas and Garlan

    Garlan doesn't even hold Brightwater right now, so this is a very unlikely scenario. The castle is still in possession of the Florents, namely Ser Colin Florent, another younger brother of the late Lord Alester Florent. Garlan's wife Lady Leonette Fossoway Tyrell has not yet given birth to any children and is most likely at Highgarden right now, just as Olenna and Alerie are.