Lord Varys

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About Lord Varys

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    Most Devious 'Man' In The Seven Kingdoms
  • Birthday 11/25/1982

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    Definitely somewhere in King's Landing

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  1. Nobody is ever going to hate Aegon, just as nobody ever hated the Young Dragon. He is going to be a Targaryen king. And nobody hates Targaryen kings unless they are Maegor the Cruel. And even that guy is idolized and worshiped by some people here on the boards although we know he was nothing but a sadistic psychopath (which the people in Westeros actually do understand, making them actually smarter than some readers). Even Aerys II still has his admirers, especially among the common people. Those same people will worship Aegon until they die. They won't blame Rhaegar's son for anything bad happening to them unless they actually see his the bad guy. And they won't see that since most of them are not living at court or in the capital. Aegon will be idealized as a tragic young king who tried to do the best for his people and was murdered by traitors or died a heroic death. Nobody is going to love Dany the way they will love Aegon simply because she is a woman. And Westeros doesn't want to be ruled by a woman. Nor will they love any woman who is going to turn against her own nephew, a man who has restored House Targaryen to the Iron Throne. By the way - pretty much nobody hates Joffrey. They hate Cersei, Tyrion, Tywin, Varys, etc. - the people around the dashing young boy king - but they don't hate him because, you know, he is still a child. As long as Aegon finds enough 'bad counselors' to blame for his mistakes - assuming he is going to make any (which is not that likely considering that he pretty smart) - his public image will remain as white as the freshly fallen snow he'll also have to deal with.
  2. Exactly. And he needs a strong army if he is going to wreak some havoc in Westeros. He is not set up as the danger he clearly is to spent the remainder of the series to sitting on the Arbor or even in Oldtown. He has to control some regions in the mainland, and be able to marshal an army to actually challenge Aegon, Tommen, Daenerys, Stannis, etc. Else there would be little point to his character. Cersei should eventually join Euron, too, but her armies could at best fight in his name eventually, not with him. That might be what a huge chunk of the Reach will be forced to do. The Lannister forces might only be able to marshal a new army sometime down the road. And, of course, the Hightowers will just bide their time and wait for the first opportunity to cast off the Ironborn yoke once again or even backstab Euron during some campaign if the tide turns against him. Smiling eye or not, they are not going to love him.
  3. Daemon was the one who killed Aegon II's son and heir killed, driving his sister-wife mad. Daemon was the one who fucked Alicent and discarded her. Daemon was the one who killed Aemond and Vhagar. Rhaenyra spared the lives of both Alicent and Helaena and executed the grandfather Aegon II already had publicly humiliated. I mean, granted, perhaps Alicent was so obsessed with her stepdaughter and Aegon II so with his half-sister that they hated her the most. But that's the impression we get in the beginning of the Dance. There they despise Rhaenyra ('the whore) but they really hate and fear Daemon. His cruelty and real (or imagined) thirst for revenge is the main reason why they think they cannot give Rhaenyra the throne. Now you are speculating and, in a sense, going against what we know because we do know that Aegon-Jaehaera became joint heirs. That means even Aegon II was forced to make a compromise there. With Aegon II's only remaining heir being a trueborn daughter she would have been his chosen heir under any circumstances. If Aegon II had had a choice he would never have betrothed Jaehaera to Aegon or pardoned the boy. He would have killed him, too, and he sure as hell must have dreamed to deal with Baela and Corlys the same way. And you should keep in mind that Aegon II merely decreed that Rhaenyra never was a queen. He never said that his own daughter could not sit the Iron Throne or that a blood claim cannot pass through a woman to her son. If he did that the Iron Throne must remain empty if House Targaryen died out in the male line. And that would be ridiculous and would never happen. A dynasty has to prepare for that 'worst case scenario' or at least not make it impossible for their own daughters or grandsons through their daughters to take the throne under such circumstances. It is certainly rather likely - and quite ironic, actually - that many of those guys joining the Greens because of 'the male claim' would have preferred Aegon the Younger to Jaehaera because of his gender and the fact that he was descended from the Old King in unbroken male line, also pushing Aegon II to not name his daughter his sole heir as well as pushing him to unite the bloodlines to help end the war. But Aegon II himself most likely couldn't care less about Aegon the Younger's claim, never mind whether it went through Rhaenyra or Daemon or both. His parents were both attainted traitors and from Aegon II's point of view Aegon the Younger was nothing but a traitor's get, not fit to inherit anything, especially not the Iron Throne. The Hightower-Targaryens didn't give shit about 'the male claim'. They wanted Alicent's bloodline on the Iron Throne because they wanted to seize power. Rhaenyra being female gave them a good pretext but as things stand they would have tried to grab power just as well even if she had been male. Some or even many people they recruited to their cause also thought the son should come before the daughter but for the core faction causing the Dance that was just pretext.
  4. It looks that way but if you are somewhat like me you really like any little tidbit of information. Ran/Linda did a great job summarizing the reign of Viserys I and the Dance (especially since they could focus more on the things that were not touched upon in TPatQ) and it is also true with the reign of Aenys I. But most interesting details are gone from TWoIaF. The Vulture's Hunt is little more than a name in TWoIaF wheres Gyldayn makes it a small story. And with the Dance there should be a lot more detail in FaB, too. I doubt George's accounts of the Erryk-Arryk battle and the death of Prince Maelor is a short and bloodless affair. Much to the contrary, actually. I guess some might have showed their ugly heads throughout the first half of the Targaryen reign. I don't expect much on them, though. I guess a Bolton could have fought in the Dance, either with Lord Roderick's Winter Wolves or with Cregan's later host. Could even be that some second or third son of House Bolton ended up leading a group of Northern outlaws in the Riverlands and Crownlands. We do know that some of Cregan's men turned to banditry. And, of course, a detailed account of the reign of Jaehaerys I could give us also a detailed account of his royal progress up North where the king and the queen might have met some Boltons, too.
  5. LOL, no. Not for a woman with no claim who had blown up St. Peter and murdered the Pope and the entire College of Cardinals in the process. There is no excuse and no means to rationalize or justify this plot development. Even more so in light of the fact that the Lannisters are broke in the show. If they had still the fortune they have in the books they could at least tried to bribe people to look the other way or buy their loyalty but Cersei can't do that in the show. Cersei basically has none of the elements of power Varys is speaking about in his riddle - she has no blood claim (meaning nobody should see her as queen), she has no money (which means she can't buy anyone), and she doesn't have the support of the majority religion (because she killed its leadership and destroyed the Great Sept). She essentially has nothing to stay in power even by the rules established by the show. Never mind the setting in the books.
  6. The other thing is that it seems very likely she had her child at Starfall. That is where Ned found her when he returned Dawn and that's where she (allegedly) killed herself. But Starfall isn't exactly the place where you would be recruited into the Aegon scheme. Connington was an exile when he was recruited and convinced to fake his death. All he could expect of life at this point is continue as a sellsword until he went into an early grave during some pointless battle in the Disputed Lands. But Ashara basically has no reason we know of or could come up with on the basis of the information we have to involve herself in any grand scheme. And considering that she became pregnant after Harrenhal we also have a good reason to assume that Princess Elia or Queen Rhaella decided to send her back to Dorne in disgrace. We do know that the queen did not like it when her ladies became whores, and in the end it would have fallen to Rhaella to enforce the court regulations on this thing if Elia wasn't up to that task. That makes it generally not very likely that Ashara's child could have been swapped with Aegon, or any such story. It is clear that she is going to play some important part in the (back) story but with the amount of information we have as of yet we can't really decide in what direction that goes. However, I daresay that we have little reason to doubt that she had a stillborn daughter. Selmy had the hots for her and we have no reason to believe he did not really get good information on her eventual fate and the fate of her child. Arthur Dayne was Selmy's sworn brother which means the man would have known who to ask to get precise information on what had transpired at Starfall. Unless, of course, we assume the entire House Dayne along with all their servants and men-at-arms are part of some large conspiracy - in addition to the whole other thing to protect Jon Snow's true identity. And that's just not all that likely.
  7. If George wanted to make Lemore being Ashara a notable and working twist that could explain why he refused to describe her eyes in ADwD. That would have given the game away. But that still doesn't fit well with the fact that Tyrion apparently overlooked or failed to mention those eyes. We also have no reason to believe that the gang lived on that pole boat for over a decade - I mean, what would the point of that? And it is not that Connington looks as if he has aged prematurely. And he may be somewhat older than Ashara Dayne. She should still be visibly recognizable as a former stunning beauty even if she no longer looks that part. But Lemore isn't described in that fashion. And again - chances are not that good that Ashara Dayne would trouble herself with involving herself in some stupid Aegon scheme. We don't even know whether she was particularly loyal to the Targaryens or even Elia.
  8. Sure, I do. I just don't think that Aegon and Aemon rhyme all that well if you take my meaning. I mean, genetically it is completely irrelevant from which son of Viserys II Daeron II and his successors are descended from, right? And claim-wise the Blackfyres are dead. They are extinct in the male line, making the Mopatis line about as impressive as the Targaryen-Tarths, the Targaryen-Plumms, or the Targaryen-Penroses. And nobody is going to ask these people to sit the throne. The Targaryen-Blackfyre conflict is a thing of the past. The Blackfyres are as relevant today as the Jacobites are in our world. Aegon might be a distant Blackfyre echo, but the deciding question for him will be whether Westeros accepts him as a Targaryen or not. If they don't it won't matter whether he is a whore's son or some Blackfyre descendant or both. People will care that he tried to deceive them, that he is an impostor and a liar, not that he happened to have some royal blood after all.
  9. I honestly don't know. But then, it is quite clear that the show cut all the important dragonrider scenes we are going to get in the books during/after the battle of Meereen. I mean, Dragonbinder is there, right? If Tyrion doesn't have Targaryen blood then Victarion and/or Brown Ben Plumm will claim a dragon. The books have Tyrion, Victarion, and Brown Ben set up as potential dragonriders. Unlike the show unclaimed dragons that are growing ever larger have to be claimed to accompany anyone to Westeros. They are not going to follow Dany or anyone just out of the goodness of their animal hearts. The best explanation I have for this is that - the writers don't give a shit about the intricacies of the dragonbonding/dragonriding plot as it is build up in the books. - the writers don't particularly care for Tyrion's Targaryen ancestry. Perhaps they will include that detail, perhaps they won't. If you check the way they adapted Dany-Drogon it is also quite clear that this had nothing to do with the way the scene was written in the books. In the show you had a submissive Drogon essentially present himself to Dany to jump upon. There was no fight for control there, no danger, no anything. Which was a huge waste of screen time. Thank you not for reminding me that I had to watch stuff like that. Cutting Aegon might have been wise if they had not replaced him with Cersei. Cersei as Queen Regnant is sort of the nail in the coffin of a believable and captivating storyline because it makes no sense that she can seize power and it creates no tension that she is Dany's main enemy now. I mean, does anybody believe she will prevail in the end? No. With Aegon it would have been completely different. They could come around doing that in the end. But then it wouldn't have anything to do with the dragons. Which would sort of cheapen the storyline. Again - the book Tyrion needs some way to really win the trust and support of Dany's people and eventually herself. Else he would just end up as her court jester, or the buy they ask stuff when they want to know things about the dragons and some of the Westerosi players. They would not grant him a voice on any council nor give him any power in the political or military field. For one, at the point where the show runners As I've said, it is quite clear that Dany's dragons will all get riders before Dany's people get to Westeros. Else they wouldn't go with them (unless we imagine you can imprison them in a ship - which they simply can't anymore). But we never got that plot in the show because the writers didn't care about that. Instead of making scenes about Tyrion the dragonrider - which they could have done with or without making Tyrion a Targaryen descendant - they gave us stupid drinking games. In the show anyone can take the Iron Throne since nobody cares all that much about legal claims or anything, really. In the books it should be a lot harder. The Lords of Westeros wouldn't want a dwarf king, especially not one who murdered his own father. A Targaryen bastard and dragonrider who rose high in the service of Queen Daenerys could pull it off. Just as Bloodraven could have become king if some freak accident had killed all of Daeron II's sons and grandsons. But just some Lannister dwarf - that's simply not likely in the books. It would be far too controversial not to mention mostly against the premise of the entire series. I mean, we are likely to see one of the children growing up taking the throne, not some older guy. Exactly. That wouldn't really work in the books. It wouldn't be a plot George is going to tell because it is full of holes. Again, that could be part of them actually adapting the source material somewhat adequately without getting/understanding every ounce of foreshadowing they are putting into the story there. I mean, those guys don't really get all the subtleties of the story, right? Nor do they care about those. And they had their talk with George about the endings only somewhat later. I doubt George told them about that when they were writing season 1. You see how George sort of had them to retcon Selyse and Shireen into the story after he told them what Shireen's ultimate fate would be. That's why they put her in there, that's clear from the start since they are building up to that for a really long time.
  10. If Aegon tries to deal with Euron the man will kill him. He'll kill them all - Illyrio, Varys, Connington, the Martells. The man is a sorcerer. And he is a charismatic psychopath with connections to the Faceless Men who plays his cards very well. His enemies have nothing to challenge him. Nothing at all. And even if he wasn't a sorcerer he has ships - Aegon hasn't any, nor has he any experienced admirals amongst his supporters. Paxter is a dead man rowing. The Hightowers can't hope to gain anything from opposing Euron after he crushes the Redwyne fleet. He'll control the seas around Oldtown for years to come and they can do nothing about that. They will ally with Euron to keep their city, their wealth, and their lives. They will not declare for some beardless fake Targaryen - and that's how they will see Aegon. The boy can conquer Westeros all day long - unless he conjures up some war galleys along with competent crews he has literally nothing to offer to the Hightowers. And to the southern Reach in general. They are at the mercy of King Euron now. If they don't bend the knee he'll ruin them all. And unlike Aegon or Tommen or Stannis he actually can do that. Or does anybody think the Free Cities, the Summer Isles, the Ghiscari, the Ibbenese, the Qartheen, etc. will continue to do business with Oldtown and the adjacent lands if that means they have to risk losing their ships, cargo, and live to the hundreds or thousands of Ironborn long ships controlling the southern coasts and waters of Westeros? No? I thought so.
  11. I don't get your meaning there. Why should anybody care from which Targaryen dude some characters in the books are descended? That is not important at all. Neither in-universe nor for the readers. Especially since there will never be a clear answer to any of this. It is the same with the parentage of Aenys I. We'll never learn whether the Conqueror was truly his biological father or not - I doubt that, but there is no way to find out. And we have just Aegon's word that Daemon is his son. He could have lied there. I would have in his position. Daemon was a promising youth of royal blood, a perfect pawn to prop up against Prince Daeron. If all we have to confirm Daemon's parentage is Aegon's word - and as of yet that's all we got - then I don't trust that word all that much. It is very odd that the man did not acknowledge that particular bastard shortly after he took the Iron Throne. It makes sense that he did not while his cousin and father still ruled, but as king he could have taken Daemon into his household from the start.
  12. Because the king said so. This is all slander by Aegon the Unworthy. He disliked his sister-wife, his noble Kingsguard brother, and his son and heir. His daughter Daenerys was most likely nothing to him, not to mention that she was still a young girl by the time the king died. In addition, it is quite clear that Queen Naerys had not intention to have further children and was constantly raped by her brother-husband throughout their marriage, resulting in a lot of unwanted pregnancies many of which led to stillbirths. The king apparently never indicated that any of those children were not his seed. We also know that Aemon and Naerys were physically close around the time of Aegon's wedding as well as - presumably - the time after. But we don't know where the Dragonknight was in 171-72 when Daenerys was conceived and born. He could have been there. But he could have just as well been on some errand.
  13. Lemore could very well be Aegon's mother. That would explain why she cares and why she is with him. Her being Ashara makes considerably less if you look at her. She isn't described as a great (former) beauty. Ashara was about Cersei's age or slightly older, and Cersei is still a stunning beauty in 300 AC. Lemore also doesn't have dark hair but merely brown hair. And she doesn't have haunting (violet) eyes. One can argue that it is intriguing that we didn't get her eye color - which is odd and noteworthy - but this doesn't mean she has violet eyes. She could have, but I'd not bet a lot of money on that. And considering that Tyrion notices Aegon's blue-purple eyes it would be somewhat odd for him to ignore/miss Lemore's eyes of a similar color. After all, he noted the stretch marks on her body, a detail that might be supposed to point the reader to her as Aegon's potential mother. One could argue that Lemore might also use a dye to color hair brown but why wouldn't she use the same blue dye Jon and Aegon are using? And if he hair was dyed why isn't the dye washed out during her constant swims in the Rhoyne? All that doesn't make it very likely that Lemore is Ashara Dayne. Not impossible, but not very likely. Not to mention that Ashara involving herself in the Aegon scheme needs a lot of additional assumptions we have no reason to make as of yet.
  14. Well, I watched that only once and I'm not going to revisit it. But if you take the chapter is it is based upon and the season as sort of an adaptation of TWoW (I know how ridiculous that sounds) then the space this small element from the Mercy chapter got in relation to the entire Arya plot in the next book this doesn't reflect well on the intention of the writers to actually properly adapt her storyline. They were basically milking the theater plot completely dry and then some. That doesn't mean that this wasn't the better part of the Braavos scenes - it sure as hell was as far as I can recall. And this whole thing thankfully gets more and more blurred in my mind. I'm not so sure. If gist of the political plot for Tyrion in the show is to have him end up as Hand of the Queen then he doesn't have to be Dany's half-brother for that. The point of that plot in the books is most likely not so narrow since it would also involve Tyrion becoming a dragonrider and most likely him being one of the three dragon heads. But there is no sign that the dragon has three heads in the show, nor is there any sign that there will be three fixed dragonriders in the show. And the writers certainly could decide that they don't like the idea of another secret Targaryen. The cut Aegon and they could sure as hell also cut Tyrion's true heritage. He could still end up at exactly the same point in the show as he is in the books, just with less of a journey and (much) less of a back story. We have seen to what level of ridiculousness they can sink with 'High Septon Maynard' and the diary entry about the annulment. That is not going to be George's way to introduce the back story of Rhaegar and Lyanna and Jon's true parentage. And thus the show is telling us a completely different story there. Well, if Tyrion ended up as king the show could get him on the Iron Throne easily enough. They don't have to make him a Targaryen for that. Just remember that Cersei rules the Seven Kingdoms as Queen Regnant right now, something that literally cannot happen in the books. In the books Tyrion could - as a (legitimized) Targaryen bastard and dragonrider - also end up on the Iron Throne but not as a Lannister. But the show sure as hell could make that happen. They can and do whatever the hell they want. Things don't have to make sense there. The show isn't exactly a coherent or consistent universe, nor does anyone give the pretense that it is supposed to be.
  15. Well, there is really no reason to believe a child of Ashara's would have looked like Elia's Aegon. She may have had purple eyes but she did have dark hair. And if Rhaegar was the father of such a child (which could have given him the Valyrian looks) why on earth should he want Lyanna if he could have Ashara? If we assume such things which are not really hinted at in the text we could just as well assume that all the three Tully children are Walder Frey's love children with Minisa Whent. It is possible that they had an affair, right? Or take any other main character. Any husband could have been cuckolded by his wife while the author and the characters weren't looking. But we usually get hints when this is the case. In Rhaegar's case we have every reason to believe that Aegon is his son as well as every reason to believe that the fact Elia could either no longer have children or no longer risk becoming pregnant after Aegon's birth is what caused Rhaegar to look for another woman to father a son on, or even to marry. If Rhaegar had had any reason to believe his children by Elia were not his we would know about that as of yet, too. Or would at least have some hint in that direction. We have gotten a couple of Martell POVs so far, not to mention Jon Connington. Some of these people would have known something. Rhaegar was a Targaryen, and they have tendency to do mad thing. They don't have to go clinically insane to follow their passions (even Robb did that). It is not just Prince Daemon throwing his place at Rhaenyra's side away for fourteen-year-old peasant girl (and then committing a suicide attack atop the Gods Eye) but also Egg and his sons who followed where their hearts led them. That is not uncommon, even if there are no prophecies in the mix. Which clearly were there in Rhaegar's case. How he thought he could get away with taking Lyanna and making her his second wife is unclear. But it seems clear that he did. But Prince Duncan also didn't really care about the consequences when he married his Jenny, so this is not exactly something that's unheard of at all. And in the end all of Egg's sons - including Rhaegar's own grandfather and grandmother - got away with their marriage choices. What should actually have dissuaded and discouraged Rhaegar may actually have encouraged him. There were wars and rebellions fought over this, but the Targaryens won in the end. Rhaegar clearly was fool enough to assume prophecy and destiny would guide and protect him ... but they did not.