Lord Varys

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About Lord Varys

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    Most Devious 'Man' In The Seven Kingdoms
  • Birthday 11/25/1982

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  • Gender Male
  • Location Definitely somewhere in King's Landing

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  1. Ser Criston Cole

    @Paxter Redwyne There is no proof that Jacaerys, Lucerys, and Joffrey Velaryon were bastards. Laenor Velaryon acknowledged them as his sons, and both Rhaenyra and Viserys I anointed Jacaerys as second in line to the Iron Throne. There is no question that they were the legal heirs of Rhaenyra. Rumors are not proof, and unlike the situation with Cersei's children - who were also recognized and acknowledged by Robert Baratheon as his sons and heirs - Jace, Luke, and Joff all were the children of their mother, and subsequently could have been legitimized either by her or her father should the circumstances have forced them to do such a thing. Bastards do have claims, too. They have weak claims, that's true, and usually come after trueborn children, but they do have claims. Rhaenyra executed some people but unless we know the context of that we cannot be sure that she acted unwisely or unjust. I find her pretty lenient. By comparison -Stannis would never have spared Cersei's life had he taken KL, and neither would he have allowed her children to live. Rhaenyra spared both Alicent and Helaena. And again: You do not know when exactly the Arryk thing happen. Until you do you are in no position to tell us when it did not happen. It could technically even have happened prior to Luke's death. As far as we know Rhaenyra did not waste money on pointless ceremonies. She planned to formally install Joffrey Velaryon as Prince of Dragonstone in such a ceremony but Gyldayn never tells us that this ceremony ever took place. Even if it did - such a ceremony was actually necessary to show the Realm that Joffrey Velaryon was her trueborn son and heir. She needed to throw a good show to convince doubters like you that he was truly Laenor's son, don't you think? Raising the taxes may be necessary during a war. Do you think Rhaenyra would have been forced to sell her crown had she been able to take much money and many valuables with her when she left the Red Keep? I don't think so. The sad truth might be that she didn't have any choice in the matter. Many powerful houses fought for her cause but she didn't exactly have the most richest houses in the Realm on her side. The reason why Tyland Lannister was tortured so much was most likely not because he did not talk - I'm pretty sure he did - but because Rhaenyra and her people did not like his answers. They wanted him to tell that Viserys' money was hidden somewhere in KL or close by where they could take it, not hear that three quarters were in Oldtown, Casterly Rock, and Braavos.
  2. Small Questions v. 10105

    An earlier version of TWoIaF actually still mentioned that it had been two elephants and I think I pointed out to Ran that they should try to make the sentence fit the picture better. The pictures might not be canon but the reader might feel irritated or cheated if the text does not fit the pictures (or vice versa). Not sure if I was the crucial factor there. Anybody else reading this early version would have realized the discrepancy ;-). And there was a lot of tweaking done with the portraits, too. The crown in the picture of Aegon's coronation was changed from a golden band to the familiar steel-and-ruby crown, and the mistresses of Aegon the Unworthy had to be reworked, too, to better fit George's descriptions.
  3. Ser Criston Cole

    Well, it would be justified if Cole had been Rhaenyra's equal and had not sworn a vow of celibacy. But he was neither. He was her servant and retainer, and not allowed to even think about marrying her. He had no right to behave like a jealous lover, just as a whore has no right to complain if a patron no longer visits her. Again, we don't know how much time passed between Luke's death and Blood and Cheese. Daemon had to hear about Luke, he had to write his letters, and Mysaria needed time to find the right people for the job. And then it might have taken some time for them to check out the situation in the castle and make the correct plan. Gyldayn tells us their original goal might have been Aegon II himself - which would mean that Daemon's 'a son for a son' was no referring to a son of Aegon II's but to a son of Alicent's (who might have been considered the true enemy of the Blacks in the entire game) - but that didn't work out because Aegon II was protected by the Kingsguard at all times. Prince Daeron wasn't even at the castle, and Prince Aemond may not have yet returned from Storm's End. When they realized they had access to the Tower of the Hand and that Helaena went there each day with her children the idea to target Aegon II's sons might have evolved. Meanwhile, it is entirely possible that Cole came up with the Arryk idea and got Aegon II's approval for that plan. Arryk could have been on his way to Dragonstone roughly at the same time as Blood and Cheese were recruited or figuring things out in the castle. Alicent wasn't spared because she was Rhaenyra's kin - although as Rhaenyra'sstepmother she certainly was 'family' although no blood relation of hers - but because 'her [Rhaenyra's] father loved Alicent once'. I'm not denying Rhaenyra came to have a cruel streak in the wake of all the tragedies and betrayals that befell her but her wrath and cruelty was never directed against any of her family members. In fact, I was actually very surprised that she did not directly order the execution of any family member, not even those she had in her power (like Helaena and Alicent). We know too little about Prince Maelor's death to say to what degree Rhaenyra is to be blamed for that. She wasn't at Bitterbridge and it is easily imaginable that somebody just recognized Ser Rickard Thorne, realized what was going on there, and then the entire town jumped him in an attempt to capture the child he had with him to hand it over to the queen and win Rhaenyra's favor. That could easily have happened without the people there ever learning that there was a price on Maelor's (and Rickard's) head. As to Rhaenyra's quality as ruler: First, the love of the commoners is a fickle thing. Just compare the situation prior to the uprisings in KL to the situation immediately prior to Rhaenyra's attack on the city. In both cases the people are afraid of the dragons, fear they will be burned alive, and are very pissed that the people in charge are shutting the city gates (a necessary move in the middle of the war because the city has to be defended against an enemy host). Secondly, we know that the Greens split the royal treasury into four parts - one quarter went to Oldtown, one quarter to Casterly Rock, another to the Iron Bank, and only one quarter remained in the capital to be used for bribes and to recruit sellswords to fight for Aegon II. Considering that it took quite some time for Rhaenyra to take the city, and considering that the Greens most likely offered a lot of bribes to a lot of lords whose allegiance they wanted to buy, there is a pretty good chance that Rhaenyra found an empty treasury when she took the city. She lacked the coin to be a generous and openhanded ruler, and one assumes that she had whatever wealth she had use to finance the war. The fighting would have crippled trade in KL (thanks to the previous blockade of Blackwater Bay) and tax revenues would not have come from many regions in the Realm who had declared for Rhaenyra or which were devastated by the fighting (especially the West). There is no reason to assume Rhaenyra mistreated the smallfolk of KL, but she also lacked the time and the opportunity to win their love. Not to mention that everybody in the city would have been very afraid of what would come after the news of Tumbleton reached the city. That was what the people had feared throughout the entire war, presumably. In that sense the uprisings are hardly a surprise, and would have been directed at this point against any monarch in the Red Keep, male or female. Rhaenyra not receiving only little help afterwards does not necessarily have anything to do with fear of Aegon II - that guy was presumed dead at this point - but rather with the simple fact that powerful people are only powerful when they actually have power. Rhaenyra had not many men left, and seemed to be desperate and afraid. You can compare her to Pompey after the Battle of Pharsalus. She was not completely done yet, and actually the only known claimant still alive at this point, but she didn't look all that well, and you better keep your distance. But it is actually pretty clear that she would have won the war had she not returned to Dragonstone (or had Aegon II never taken Dragonstone in her absence) because she had still loyal lords who were determined to fight for her. Had she gone to the Vale or to White Harbor the year 131 AC would have seen her triumphant return to KL, and Rhaenyra I Targaryen may have ruled the Seven Kingdoms for another 2-3 decades. She might even have known some happiness considering that Prince Viserys would have returned from Lys a few years later, and with the help of the Rogares Westeros could have been rebuilt much quicker than it actually was.
  4. Ser Criston Cole

    Ser Arryk Cargyll had the choice to say 'No, I'll not be part in the murder of Rhaenyra and/or her children. It is my duty to protect and defend the king, and I'll do that, but I'll not murder his sister or his nephews.' That wouldn't be so difficult, or would it? Blood and Cheese was early - but again, we don't know when the Arryk-Erryk thing happened, so you repeating that doesn't lead to anything. Even if it was a response to Blood and Cheese it was still a dick move. Prince Aemond opened the war by murdering Prince Lucerys and his dragon in cold blood. Blood and Cheese was a response to that. Ser Otto Hightower was no member of Rhaenyra's family. He was the father of the second wife of her father, and no kin to her. And even if you'll stretch relations this far he certainly had betrayed her and deserved what was coming for him. He knew what he had done, after all. But Alicent and Helaena were spared. Prince Maelor was no nobody, either. He was Aegon II's only surviving son and heir, and Rhaenyra had every reason to prevent him from reaching an enemy castle and eventually becoming a figurehead/threat to her rule. In fact, considering that she didn't know where Aegon II had gone she might originally have thought that Aegon's children were with him. Her not looking for Aegon and his children would have been completely stupid. A Kingsguard should know better than to fall in love and presume he could fuck a royal prince. He has voluntarily sworn a vow of celibacy, after all. Even if he fell in love against his will - like Barristan Selmy did - he should have shut up and never acted on that because that could only mean trouble. I mean, Cole was extremely lucky that nobody ever caught him trying to make out/fuck the Princess of Dragonstone, or else he would have suffered a worse fate than Lucamore the Lusty (who had been gelded and sent to the Wall by the Old King). In fact, we know that there were people at court who tried to convince Viserys I to execute Prince Daemon multiple times but he had no intention of killing his own brother (one of them being the incident in which Daemon was caught abed with Rhaenyra). But we can be reasonably sure that nothing would have saved Cole in a similar situation. He might have suffered the same fate as Simon Toyne.
  5. Is Drogon really Meant for Daenerys ?

    We'll have to wait and see but you can interpret Drogo's apparent resistance in Dany's last chapter as an illusion if you assume that Dany is herself either unsure about returning to Meereen or subconsciously conflicted about that question. The visions of Viserys and Jorah she later sees are most likely not actual spiritual manifestations (Jorah is still alive, after all) but brought forth by her own mind to help her realize what's going on. The bond between dragon and dragonrider is presented as very deep in the TPatQ TRP. Sunfyre may have felt Aegon II's need, and many dragons seem to mimic the emotions of their riders and direct their love or hate against people/dragons their riders also dislike. In that sense I'm pretty sure Dany is already completely in control of Drogon. She just hasn't realized yet that this is the case. If she does, the dragon will behave accordingly. And he seems to be following her lead in the end of the chapter.
  6. Ser Criston Cole

    Not offense taken. And we should also keep in mind that - if Mushroom's says it - 'as chaste as an old septa' might not mean chaste at all. Because, you know, in Mushroom's mind a lot fucking is most likely going on in septries, motherhouses, and the like. And in general we should assume that a lot juicy stuff was going on at Viserys I's court. He was a peace-and-plenty king who continuously threw balls, tourneys, feasts, etc. throughout his entire reign, and usually interesting stuff happens at such events. We know that both Viserys I and Prince Daemon had affairs, not to mentions the rumors about Alicent having had an affair with Jaehaerys I, Prince Daemon, and Viserys I while his first wife Queen Aemma was still alive.
  7. Ser Criston Cole

    Well, I guess I'm just biased against handsome people... TRP also mentions that handsome Ser Criston was the favorite of all the ladies at court, Princess Rhaenyra foremost among them. That certainly suggests he had every opportunity to have affairs even after living at court and joining the KG. And unless he wasn't sexually or romantically attracted to children there is no way he was actually already in love with Rhaenyra in the early years.
  8. Ser Criston Cole

    The Kingsguard vows are irrelevant to this question since we from Barristan that it is up to the king to extend KG protection to whoever he wishes (his queen, his children, his widowed mother, his uncles, aunts, and cousins, his other kin, his bastards, etc.). We know that Viserys I had extended KG protection to Princess Rhaenyra and her children because there were two (and eventually three) Kingsguard who were named by Viserys I on Dragonstone with her. Criston Cole knew all that and he didn't care. He wanted to make a man who had sworn to defend the king and his blood into murdering members of the royal family. That is just sick. And those four KG (including Cole) really seemed to betray their own late king. It was Viserys I who gave them their white cloaks and they must have been very aware of the fact whom the king wished to succeed to the throne. While you can make arguments that other people at court might have more freedom of thought in regards to the king's wishes and decrees (although that's actually nonsensical considering that everyone at court - including the Hightowers - would have been expected to honor the succession as it was set by Viserys I) we should all be in agreement that it is not up to the Kingsguard to second-guess, ignore, or act against the express wishes of the king. In that sense Criston Cole and his three brethren are actually among the worst Kingsguard in history regardless whether they later proved to be loyal to Aegon II and his children. That is possible but we don't know that yet. It would have taken time to arrange Blood and Cheese, after all, and perhaps Cole reacted first and tried to remove Rhaenyra and all her children before her cause could gain momentum in the wake of the murder of Prince Lucerys. At that point it would have been clear that war was inevitable, and somehow I think Arryk's infiltration of Dragonstone must have occurred before the Velaryon fleet had begun to blockade KL and Blackwater Bay. The idea that a guy looking like Erryk Cargyll could have sneaked through such a blockade via ship is not very likely. I'm pretty sure Rhaenyra did not put a price on Maelor's head stipulating that she wanted him 'dead or alive'. The mob ripped him to pieces because they were fighting for their price. That is horrible, of course, but it seems nobody actually wanted to kill him. Rhaenyra was especially lenient with her family as her treatment of both Alicent and Helaena confirms. She could have had the heads of both of them, after all. Well, you'd base this assumption on the questionable source of Mushroom. Or do you also believe he had such a big member and played a crucial role in the sex education of Rhaenyra? I don't think so. Cole clearly was in love with Rhaenyra - that much is confirmed by the fact how he treated both Joffrey Lonmouth and Harwin Strong at the wedding tourney. Anyone who was actually 'as chaste as an old septa' would have thanked the Seven that he was finally rid of that wanton slut he had to protect for the last decade or so. He would not have tried to punish her or Laenor by targeting their favorites in the tourney. In addition, Cole wasn't a KG from birth. He only became a member of the KG in 105 AC at the age of twenty-three. Are you really believing that a man with his looks and skills didn't have affairs in his youth just because Mushroom (who would only have met him after he came to court) claims that? @The Weirwoods Eyes I think we should see the anti-Rhaenyra view of contemporary Westeros as a gradual process. The very fact that half of Westeros (or more, actually) supported Rhaenyra's claim at one time or another is a pretty strong testament to the fact that many people in the Realm still stood by and supported their late king's decision to name her the heir - in spite of the power the Hightower-led Greens acquired late in Viserys' reign. In addition there certainly is the fact to consider that Rhaenyra had become very unpopular in the city by the time she had to flee KL didn't help her memory to live on (like the memory of the Young Dragon certainly did). And in general history would of course lay the blame at the feet of the woman trying to change the order of things despite the fact that she had been named and acknowledged as Viserys' successor by the entire Realm. That is misogyny at its finest. But this doesn't mean Aegon II and his ilk were popular. They weren't, in fact. Otto Hightower is counted among the worst Hands in the history of the Seven Kingdoms, Alicent was imprisoned for life after the murder of Aegon II, and the king himself is described as grasping by Grand Maester Kaeth. Not to mention that our own view on Aegon II's reign pretty much shows what kind of man he was, and how he completely sucked at being king during the brief time he actually ruled (which wasn't all that long). The man we see at the end of TPatQ seems to have learned some lessons, but I assume he has actually become more cruel and vengeful instead of having acquired the experience to actually be a wise and good king. And one actually wonders who sat longer on the Iron Throne - Rhaenyra of Aegon II. Aegon II might only have spent a few weeks there after his coronation and his early injuries, and he then only returned to KL in the last month of 130 AC and sat there until he was killed in the third month. And I'm not sure if Cole is really a positive figure in Westerosi history. He was a great knight and all, and is revered for that, but the Kingmaker name actually is an insult, not praise. People knew he betrayed his late king by crowning Aegon II, and that makes him actually the prototypical example for a bad Kingsguard. If you want to be a Kingsguard try not be like Criston Cole. That goes for both having an affair with a royal princess and betraying your own king. @Danelle I've a few problems with your interpretation of the relationship between Rhaenyra and Cole. Keep in mind that the girl seems to have been six when Cole was made her sworn shield (in 103 AC) and eight when he was made a member of the KG (in 105 AC). Cole was twenty-one in 103 AC, and twenty-three in 105 AC. This is a pretty big age gap, and unless we assume Cole was somehow into young girls with silver-gold hair there is little chance he actually was romantically attracted to Rhaenyra until she became a teenager. But he most likely enjoyed the fact that she took a childish fancy to him and eventually began to respond to all that. The fact that Rhaenyra was the greatest price a man could hope for at this time would also have fueled his ambition. Having the favor and ear of the future queen was a means to gain power. If Cole actually ended up suggesting to Rhaenyra to run away with her then there was a side in him that actually loved the girl as a person, not just as a price (Harwin Strong apparently had no problem with the fact that he was just the secret lover). And it must have hurt him very much that she rejected that offer. On the other hand, if Rhaenyra actually had an affair with Daemon earlier on then there is little reason to assume that she didn't also have a secret affair with Criston Cole. It is really difficult to say. His later career suggest that he became a more shadier character later on. His closeness to Alicent could indicate that they had an affair later in life, and/or that he was even complicit in the murder of Viserys I if we assume the man was poisoned. His convenient death at an opportune moment for the Greens is a very lucky coincidence indeed. And Gyldayn having Alicent call upon Ser Criston Cole at once after she learns about Viserys' death strongly suggests that these two were pretty close at that point.
  9. Ser Criston Cole

    We know that Ser Arryk was sent to kill either Rhaenyra or her children. And we don't really know when this took place, either. Could have been a reaction to Blood and Cheese, but it could actually have preceded it. I grant you that this isn't such a worse crime in comparison to many of the others but I was referring to the fact that a Lord Commander of the Kingsguard was sending another Kingsguard with murdering either his rightful Queen (at least in the eyes of his late king) or her children. And that is really disgusting if you think about what the Kingsguard is supposed to stand for. There is no hint that Rhaenyra had any direct influence on the manner Prince Maelor died. That was a mad mob and she wasn't there. But she most certainly would have set a decent price on his head.
  10. Small Questions v. 10105

    I've just gone back on that. Gyldayn tells the story in a different order than Yandel. It is actually not clear when Quicksilver is given to Aenys but it is clear that he is given to him as a hatchling not in egg form, and neither does Aenys claim him all by himself like Maegor,Aemond and others later would have claimed riderless adult dragons. There is however another tidbit I just recovered stating that Quicksilver was 'born that same year' on Dragonstone. In context this seems to refer to the year 7 AC, Aenys' year of birth, because prior to that we only get a lengthy description of young Aenys - watery eyes, spindly legs, unwilling to take milk from any wetnurses, and him crying for a fortnight when he was weaned (which might have actually been in the year of his birth considering that this was in the middle of the First Dornish War and Queen Rhaenys was most likely expected to accompany her royal siblings during dragon attacks on the Dornish castles). The account on Rhaenys' death follows immediately thereafter, stating that Aenys was three when his mother died in Dorne - and he then refused to eat and began to crawl again as he had when he was one. Aegon supposedly despaired of the boy then.But that wasn't the only reason for people thinking Aegon should/would remarry - Visenya was childless and perhapsbarren. A lot of lords and knights showed up at court bringing their maiden daughters with them but Aegon's own thoughts on the matter are unknown. All speculation died when Visenya 'suddenly announced that she was carrying the king's child' confidently proclaiming that it would be a boy. This is pretty interesting because Gyldayn's choice of words only tells us what Visenya said Maegor was, not that he actually was Aegon's seed. But I digress. What we can say confidently on the basis of 'The Sons of the Dragon' reading is that Aenys might actually have been given the hatchling Quicksilver in his year of birth, or perhaps only as late as 8 AC, but that's it. My earlier speculation about infants not getting dragon hatchlings is clearly wrong.
  11. Small Questions v. 10105

    We have two examples as to when exactly it was thought proper for a young Targaryen to bond with a dragon. Prince Aenys received Quicksilver at the age of three, and Rhaenyra mounted Syrax at the age of seven. From the example of Aegon the Younger we know that you can hang out with your dragon for some time before you actually mount it and fly, so one assumes that young Rhaenyra had Syrax as a hatchling for a few years before the they flew together for the first time. The Aenys example is especially interesting because he had reverted to a crawling stage in that year when he lost his mother, and was very sick. Yet nobody thought it dangerous to give a dragon hatchling to the boy. That could indeed mean that the dragon eggs given to the royal children were supposed to hatch at one point in their childhood - however it might have been the rule that they hatched while they were still infants. Thinking about the whole thing again: The freshness of eggs might indeed have been an important factor and explain why there was eventually a problem to hatch the remaining eggs - there weren't exactly all that fresh. I guess the likelihood of an egg dropped with the amount of time that had passed since it was laid but Daenerys' success seems to prove that dragon eggs never truly die - the spell only reawakened life that lay dormant, it did not create dragons out of thin air (if that works, then Dany wouldn't have needed any dragon eggs at all). This could also help explain why hatching the eggs during the reign of Aegon III became problematic. The eggs were no longer fresh, and while we know that the last dragon left a clutch of five eggs we don't know how many fresh eggs the Targaryens had left after the Dance and Regency. Morning is the last dragon we know by name and I guess it must have produced other viable eggs or else the hatching of the last dragons in the 150s wouldn't have happened. This would make it likely that another dragon hatched early on in the reign of Aegon III or Morning and Silverwing somehow had some private moments later in life. I guess if there hatchedanother healthy dragon after Morning then Baela is the most likely to have claimed it. Aegon III was too afraid, and Prince Viserys may have returned too late.
  12. Ser Criston Cole

    It is very unlikely that Criston Cole did murder Lyman Beesbury on the command of Prince Aegon. He most likely did it either on his own initiative to make a point that the debate was over and the Small Council would now do whatever Ser Otto Hightower commanded or suffer theconsequences or because he was ordered to do so by Alicent and/or Otto. Perhaps there had even been a previous understanding how to deal with Small Council members staying true to the will of the late king and the vow they once swore to Rhaenyra. I also don't think he was the very soul of knighthood and chivalry. I see Cole as the knightly version of Littlefinger. He is a man of very humble origins (the son of the steward of Blackhaven) and he uses his skills, his good looks, and his charm to rise to the very top of the food chain. As high as a knight can rise in his society. I don't buy it for a moment that such a man would be 'as chaste as an old septa'. I'm pretty sure a man as handsome as he was had quite a lot of girls and women both before he joined the KG as well as thereafter. When he became Rhaenyra's sworn shield she was still a little girl, after all. Perhaps he never intended to fall in love with Rhaenyra but he did, and then he presumed too much like Littlefinger did when he tried to marry Catelyn. When Rhaenyra's marriage to Laenor Velaryon was announced Cole went to her and offered her to run away with him so they could be together as husband and wife in exile - and offer Rhaenyra dismissed at once because she wanted the Iron Throne and had no intention to disappoint the expectations and trust her father had put in her. Instead she probably offered him to become her unofficial lover and the father of her children - like Harwin Strong later did become - but this was something Cole could not stomach for some reason. I guess we have to keep in mind how, well, humiliating/unnatural it must have felt/looked for Cole to see Rhaenyra being married to a homosexual man as effeminate as Laenor Velaryon. He most likely couldn't stand the prospect of not being her husband and seeing that this guy was - who most likely did neither desire nor would ever share his bed with her. I think this hatred of Laenor (and Rhaenyra, who is actually willing to go along with this charade) is made evident by Cole's behavior during the wedding tourney. He targets and kills Joffrey Lonmouth, Laenor's favorite, and also beats up Harwin Strong. If didn't have any strong feelings for Rhaenyra he would have done neither because he certainly wouldn't have cared about Lonmouth nor would he have had any reason to hate Harwin. He would just have been glad that he no longer had to protect the slutty princess who always tried to seduce him. Whether Cole and Rhaenyra ever had an actual affair prior to their breakup is unknown but I guess they did. They had every opportunity and the idea that anyone would dare reject the Realm's Delight is pretty unlikely. The whole ridiculous Mushroom story about Rhaenyra taking sex lessons from Daemon to try to seduce Criston Cole isn't very plausible. Daemon wanted to deflower Rhaenyra to be able to marry her as soiled goods if Viserys would annul his marriage to Rhea Royce - he had no good motivation to only help Rhaenyra to seduce Criston Cole. In addition Rhaenyra actually appears less 'slut-like' in Mushroom's story because she doesn't have any intercourse at all (neither with Daemon -who only teaches her ways to seduce a man - nor with Cole, who rejects her). Cole's motivations in the Dance are both selfish and low, as most of them are. He is not as worse as the Hightowers and is sort of redeemed by the fact that he is one of the few competent Greens. His military tactics are sound, and he seems to be a capable general. But then, he sucks as a Lord Commander of the Kingsguard when he actually risks the life of his own king to slay an enemy dragonrider, not to mention that the whole plot of dispatching Arryk Cargyll to murder either Rhaenyra or her children is possibly one of the lowest points the Kingsguard ever reached. That was just disgusting to read. How much he was manipulated by Alicent in all that is also unclear as of yet. One really wonders whether the man was on board with any Hightower schemes from the start or whether Alicent had to carefully manipulate him before she could completely recruit him to her cause. It might have been a work in process considering that we have actually no idea when exactly the Greens decided they would usurp the throne upon the death of Viserys I. There might have been times when they would not have dared such a move, or there might have been times in which Alicent and Otto both thought there could be a peaceful solution to all of that (although I really doubt they were all that eager to look for such).
  13. A+J=T v.9

    Well, we'll have to wait and see whether Tyrion ever makes the Aerys connection. I mean, this also will greatly depend on how and when he becomes a dragonrider. If Tyrion for some reason becomes a dragonrider effectively by accident - say, he comes a across Viserion in the middle of the battle and has to choose between letting Penny die/certain death and an attempt to jump on the dragon's back -then he might be willing to consider he has a dragonlord ancestor. But even that doesn't mean he'll jump to Aerys II and Joanna. He could also, for instance, assume that Lady Rohanne Webber wasn't all that faithful to Gerold Lannister. She may yet have an affair with Dunk and there is the story about her sudden disappearance. Tyrion might assume that instead of having an affair with Dunk she may have an affair with Prince Aerion or the later Aegon V. if he becomes a dragonrider with the help of Dragonbinder a Targaryen ancestry might not come up at all. And if Barristan Selmy ends up forcing Tyrion to try to claim a dragonrider with the rationale that he is Aerys' bastard 'because he knows Joanna and Aerys had sex in 272 AC' then Tyrion might not be willing to believe that at all and fail to become a dragonrider because he won't be able to overcome his fear in the face of the dragon he is supposed to mount (not to mention that this revelation will cause a lot of confusion and uncertainty in his mind - he may not want it to be try and thus, at heart, not want to become a dragonrider).
  14. A+J=T v.9

    @A spoon of knife and fork Oh, I know how human procreation works ;-). I did not mean to say that Tywin had to have had sex directly before or after Aerys and Joanna had sex. I just wanted to indicate that Tywin and Joanna would have had to have sex while she was in KL because we have no reason to believe that Tywin spent any time at Casterly Rock with her prior or after the anniversary tourney. This in itself is enough evidence for me to assume that Tyrion was most likely conceived during the tourney - regardless who he his father was. I wasn't specifically talking about dwarfism. Tyrion might have had other deformities similar to those of (historical) Targaryen monstrosities. For instance, the tales Oberyn heard suggested Tyrion was born with a tail. The fact that there was no tail when Oberyn and Elia saw Tyrion doesn't prove anything because the maester of Casterly Rock could have removed it. And we know that there is a precedent for heterochromia in Targaryen bastards. @Suzanna Stormborn I'd not say that dragons or direwolves are good paternity tests. A boy skinchanger with a direwolf doesn't have to be Rickon Stark, after all. It could be a different boy skinchanger. But it would be pretty convincing, that's clear. Vice versa, bonding with a dragon should only prove you have some Targaryen (or dragonlord) ancestor, not that you are the descendant of a specific Targaryen prince, king, queen, or princess. In fact, Addam of Hull claimed Laenor Velaryon's dragon Seasmoke but does this prove he was the son of Laenor Velaryon? I don't think so. Another example would be Prince Aenys bonding with Quicksilver - people saw this as 'proof' that the prince was the seed of the Conqueror but all it really did was proving that the child had Targaryen blood (which was never in question considering that Queen Rhaenys was his mother).
  15. Melissandre spoilers included

    Well, what Melisandre tells Davos doesn't necessarily point to an existential worldly threat. It could also be an existential metaphysical threat the savior has to deal with. Sure, ice demons could be meant by it, too, but I actually see no reason why Mel couldn't also fill the empty rhetoric she used in ASoS when talking to Davos in the dungeons with 'heresy/heretics', 'false religion(s)', or 'evil people following the Great Other consciously or unconsciously'. If Mel actually expected some sort of existential real world threat one really wonders why she h Any religious zealot can tell you he or she has not come to seat another king on the throne but is fighting the just war against evil. That doesn't mean it is true, though. I'm not sure it makes much sense to assume that Mel is aware the threat the reborn Azor Ahai will have to deal with is worldly and then help him to weaken the land/people he is going to defend even further. I mean, if the Great Other is going to marshal some real world army then Stannis should actually be looking for real world allies in addition to converting to R'hllor. But she is not supporting him in that at all. In fact, Mel and Selyse really try to sell Stannis the idea that all he needs is R'hllor after he has just suffered a crushing defeat on the Blackwater. That is not going to help As long as Mel does not specifically say what she meant by that it remains vague and can also be interpreted in the way I see it - Mel believes she is on a mission but it may not have been the right mission. In fact, she still might not be on the right mission because her narrow religious view might be the wrong way to understand and deal with the Others situation. In my opinion, we can see Melisandre as a example how vague religious prophecies and expectations can be (re-)interpreted to fit pretty much anything. That's what's people have done with holy books for thousands of years, after all. Anyone can be a champion/soldier of the Great Other in Melisandre's mind - and it will most likely be people who she either does not understand or considers a threat to whatever she wants. But even if you were completely right there would still be no evidence that Asshai has anything to do with Melisandre's views. It could be that whoever taught her at her Red Temple had a much more rigid view than Benerro. And who knows, perhaps said temple actually was at Asshai. There could be red priests there, too, and even if Melisandre was not originally sold to a Red Temple in Asshai she might have lived with fellow red priests at Asshai and may have become more fanatical there. We just don't know yet.