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Lord Varys

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  1. From what we know or I think I heard is that neither Daeron nor Nettles have been cast for season 2. But the story doesn't seem to advance very far. The dragonseeds can claim their dragons over a longer period of time in the show, meaning Nettles might come into the fray only in season 3. Even in the book the Sowing likely wasn't over in a fortnight. It might have never actually ended as, say, would-be dragonriders might have continued to search for the Grey Ghost until his death, etc. The text even has them bring up new dragonriders at the first Black Council ... and then they apparently don't do anything in that regard for an entire year. Also, it is a great idea to build up Hugh and Ulf and their eventual betrayal slowly. Hugh, especially, wants to be king eventually, a process that slowly developed over time. Condal has said, I think, they will depict the war as something where many people think they have to choose between Rhaenyra and Aegon ... while others think they might make even better kings. One of those clearly seems to be Aemond, especially during his time as Prince Regent (a position he might actually be determined to never give up again), the others would be Hugh and Ulf, eventually. The show might very well portray one of them as Rhaenys' half-brother (Aemon's bastard) while the other could be Daemon's half-brother. Daeron should definitely be mentioned a lot in season 2 if they don't show him yet. It is odd to postpone his appearance yet again, but it seems they moved the entire Reach fighting plot to season 3, not just Daeron. Season 2 is going to focus on fighting in the Crownlands (Rosby, Stokeworth, Duskendale, Rook's Rest), the Riverlands (Harrenhal, Battle of the Burning Mill, possibly culminating the Battle of the Red Fork), and some additional Vale and North stuff (no fighting there, apparently). But if they moved all the Reach stuff to season 3 they are not likely to rush the Fall of King's Landing, meaning season 3 might feature Reach stuff up until the Battle of the Honeywine before the Battle of the Gullet and/or the Fall of King's Landing. Then they also have to get to the Ironborn stuff which I don't think they want to cut, either. But they might only get involved after Jason Lannister's death leaves the West defenseless.
  2. Again, even if we go with your idea there ... why not just destroy Daemon in the years between his marriage to Rhaenyra and Viserys' death? He is not the heir and he can be ruined, exiled (again) or killed. There are precedents for such murders. This would be infinitely easier than a coup or succession war since the latter will involve much more bloodwork and kinslaying to keep Aegon on the throne. Rhaenyra and her entire bloodline have to go then ... as show Otto correctly points out. The point of making Aegon king is to make Aegon king. That is the agenda, and nothing else. If Alicent were truly afraid for the lives of her children because of Daemon she would have found a way to get rid of him. She effectively runs the government in episode 8 ... and years ago her foot sex buddy killed two crucial men very easily and effectively. The idea that Rhaenyra can only sit safely on her throne when Alicent's sons are dead is not suggested by either book or show. Rhaenyra is the chosen and anointed heir as per royal decree. It doesn't hinge on her not having trueborn (half-)brothers. Alicent's children would be safe unless they plotted treason. If it were different, Viserys I himself would have found ways to neutralize Aegon, Aemond, and Daeron (say, by sending them to the Wall, make one of them a KG, maester, septon, etc.). Vice versa it is not the same as the show itself depicts. Rhaenyra and her bloodline have to go because they are a threat to Aegon since Rhaenyra was the chosen and anointed heir. That is what Otto says. Rhaenyra and Daemon never have such thoughts, nor does Alicent truly believe stuff like that (in episode 6 she tells Aegon shit like that to cut him off from Rhaenyra's sons, but she doesn't really believe that). But to be sure ... the show didn't turn the two women into besties. We only have their honest reconciliation in episode 8 which is then followed by the deathbed word ... which give Alicent final permission to crown Aegon. She now is not an evil bitch turning against her late husband the moment he dies ... she genuinely thinks they were both on the same page in the end. Book Alicent's portrayal is that of a willing seductress (possibly sleeping with Viserys prior to Aemma's death) marrying a man she clearly never loved (we can draw that both from Viserys' rotting in his bedchamber as well as from post-Dance Alicent never taking about her husband). There is little indication in the book that her father pushed her into things against her will. Her reading exploits with King Jaehaerys I show that she had a lot of ambition and agency on her own ... there was nothing the Hightowers or Otto personally could gain from having his daughter care for the senile old man. This is the narrator telling us that Alicent Hightower wanted to be close to royalty. She is conceived as a Targaryen groupie, basically. Later on Alicent and her inability to get along with her stepdaughter is what sows the seeds of the Dance. It is her character flaws that are the problem, her toxic remarks, her unwillingness to accept the decree of her lord husband and king. Otto might play a minor role there in the book, too, but he is gone when things really sour between Rhaenyra and Alicent and he also had nothing to do with ensuring the children would not get along with each other. Book Rhaenyra might also share a portion of the blame there, but she is never portrayed as the active party. No records about toxic remarks from her or her side. More glaring are things in the book because of the age gap between the two women - no 7-14-year-old is to be blamed for not getting along with her stepmother if said stepmother is ten years older. There are such things as the accountability of adults as compared to childish behavior of ... children and adolescents. Alicent could have won Rhaenyra's love or at least affection. They could have worked as a family. That they did not is, as per the narrative, Alicent's fault. With the incest thing going on there were quite a few ways to tie the branches of the family together ... but that wasn't what she wanted. Her only goal was to make Aegon king, not to make, say, a son or grandson of Jacaerys and Helaena king. This is why the template of the book Alicent actually seems to be Livia from I, Claudius. Alicent is the evil stepmother who wants to push aside her stepdaughter (and her children) for the benefit of putting her own (favorite?) son on the throne. That is the only agenda, and everything else serves that endgame. Alicent's feigns affection and love to Viserys but only uses him as an instrument to get what she wants, not caring for his wishes. The show made things more interesting by making Rhaenyra and Alicent not die-hard enemies from some years after the birth of Aegon and Aemond but made things more complex. They also retained the complexity George included in the narrative - which most people either ignore or overlook - that Otto Hightower was actually the architect of Queen Rhaenyra. He made her the Heir Apparent. In the show Alicent partially retains that view, a view that was her father's originally. That all said - I also don't like the lack of Alicent's ambition. Her being unhappy with her role as queen is silly. That is what she wanted - or should have wanted in the show, even if she didn't love Viserys - it shouldn't have been something her father pushed on her with her not being able to feel comfortable in that role years after her marriage and some time after the birth of her elder children. But things like the Green Council cutting her out because she was the woman actually do make sense in a scenario where she is not actually an evil scheming bitch feigning affection and love for the king while secretly plotting with her evil cronies all the time. Still, I'd have preferred it if Alicent's role as queen had slowly pushed her into a position where she was ordering around her father and the council rather than being treated as a pawn by them. They could have still made coup plans behind her back ... only for them quickly realizing that this was a grievous mistake when Alicent learned what they were doing.
  3. By the way, a Black trailer is silly as the show neither named nor established Rhaenyra's faction so far, so only book readers know the name. Why they would call themselves that is, of course, equally unclear as Rhaenyra's dress was dropped completely.
  4. That would be motivation/justification to kill Daemon ... but it doesn't make Aegon a good or even mediocre potential king. It doesn't give good motivation for the coup. The show's narrative of 'Viserys changing his mind on his deathbed' repairs the second major flaw in George's outline - the biggest blunder being Daemon and Rhaenyra not preparing for the succession struggle that's firmly on the table at least since 120 AC, counting on teenagers to forge alliances they should have made personally years ago -, namely, that the Greens don't publicly announce Viserys changed the succession on his deathbed or a some days before, forging his last will and testament. That would have been the obvious way to make Aegon the rightful king in the eyes of the public. Instead we have Eustace portray Aegon as a pious and dutiful son by way of him rejecting the crown that was Rhaenyra's by right ... which makes it clear that Otto and Alicent made no attempt to paint Aegon's coronation as something his father supported in the end, implicitly confirming they are traitors to the late king and his wishes. That is a silly way to stage a coup. The king's word and wishes are the only real law in this land, so not using this authority - real, misunderstood, or forged - is stupid. The show actually made that better. Had George included something like that in FaB his AGoT appendix narrative of Rhaenyra contesting the rise of Aegon II would have actually been accurate again. Who could possibly prove the king didn't have a change of heart on his deathbed? No one. The Blacks could just (want to) believe Rhaenyra was still the rightful heir. Like Stannis believes he is, etc. Alicent acting on behalf of her children, etc. would just reinforce the evil stepmother/slut character she is in the book. We got some nuance there in the show. Alicent is not in the game for herself or her blood, is not the clichéd protector/arbiter of her sons, like book Alicent who is clearly based in some parts on Graves' Livia, but rather somebody who is conflicted because she is part of a larger whole. We also see this with Otto, who isn't just a powerhungry asshole but a guy who is both pushed by his brother as well as deluding himself his/Hightower interests are the interests of the Realm. I think that is actually the best way to show him becoming imperious by way of growing attached to his high office. It is not a two sides narrative ... it is a narrative in which neither side are clean or white heroes since the war as such is wrong, but there is still one side that is clearly worse than the other. And consistently so, especially in the source material. The show added nuance to the Greens, but keeps them as the faction who is 'more evil/corrupt'.
  5. Having both sides use Viserys last words/wishes as their justification is actually a nice way to make them less disgusting powergrabbers. George's Greens let the old man rot in his bed. And making Alicent ambitious for her own brood isn't really agency in modern sense, especially since Aegon is so manifestly unsuited for the job. If we had the book scenario they would have to actually explain how Rhaenyra & Daemon neither saw the coup coming nor prepared for a struggle or war. Dalton Greyjoy is more prepared than they ever were... Yes, there are multiple shots of him but who is the pale white one? Is it Baela on Moondancer doing that fast plunge down or was that a fast cut from her to Aegon? If it is Baela then the chances that she will be at Rook's Rest are pretty good. Would be a nice way to spice things up.
  6. In Braavos there are indeed bravos who duel regularly ... but there are rules for that kind of thing. Sam's black clothes are viewed as a provocation, but even he doesn't really get into trouble. You are like a guy saying because alcohol or weed can be bought in a specific country all people must do it. Only certain people do, just as in Martinworld and similar societies which center around 'honor' only a certain small class of people do have 'honor' to defend or care about. The overwhelming majority of the people don't do duels. It is something for the higher/ruling classes. And in Braavos it is restricted to the bravos. No, slavery is but one part of the problem. Killing people for fun/sport is inherently wrong, too. No reference to 'culture' or 'religion' can justify stuff like that.
  7. Duels over honor issues are not rampant in Westeros nor Essos as far as we know, and they are not something you have to enter into, either. The Dothraki might be a tidbit different ... but that is all a moot point as the pit fighting is deadly blood sport profit, and not something people who are concerned about their 'honor' enter into of their own free will. It works very fine, that is the reason why quite a few cultures and religions are gone these days, and also why people do away with silly practices, like, say, bullfighting. And, of course, the Ghiscari culture as connected to slavery and slavery practices suck hard. It has to go. The rich people have to find some other ways to generate revenue than watching people kill each other.
  8. Not anything, just some things which have clear foreshadowing. The dragon stuff foremost among them. But there is also a chance that he might yet become a king, as the whole thing about his shadow indicated. As tall as a king could very well mean he is going to be a king one day. Not checking your numbers, but the Westerlands are far from spent. There were some losses in both Jaime's and Tywin's armies, but dispersed men can go back home (and likely did do just that). Ditto with the Lannisport army. The military potential of House Lannister is about 65,000 men, according to some sources, and Tywin and Jaime together only marshaled 35,000 men. You also have to consider how fucking rich Cersei Lannister is. If push comes to shove she can buy tens of thousands of sellswords, both in and outside of Westeros. And if she has to flee KL she might actually send representatives to the Disputed Lands to hire men with Lannister gold. Her personal conflict can revolve around other things. That she is, in the end, the true savior and not one of the fake ones like Stannis and Aegon, is actually quite clear by the plot. The entire ironical point of her plot is the fact that she prepares for an invasion/conquest that is, most likely, not going to happen. At least not as an invasion to conquer, but as an invasion to save or to help save people. If she were to come to Westeros as another pretender fighting for her own petty gains/ambitions they are not likely to defeat the Others. Dany is certainly not Henry Tudor, but Aegon is pretty much Perkin Warbeck (coming at a time when no Henry Tudor sits more or less securely on the throne). Aegon is going to be good guy who might try his best ... but who will fail as a king. I've no clue if he is going to be a tyrant or a weakling or both ... but he will fail for this or that reason. Not necessarily to the point that he will be completely done by the time Dany shows up - depending on the kind of story George wants to tell - but a failure nonetheless. Varys has set him up as the perfect prince and savior ... and he just isn't that, as he is not the hero of this story. Ah, no. He has to conclusively prove to the world and the people that he is actually Rhaegar's son ... the world and Dany don't have to disprove that claim. He claims to be a person that is officially dead for seventeen years while not even looking like a properly 18-year-old (rather like 15-16-year-old according to Tyrion). Aegon's situation is Cersei's children reversed. Stannis and his buddies have to prove that the children Robert Baratheon raised as his own are not, in fact, his biological children, but the children don't have to prove that their legal father is their father. Because that is the status quo. The status quo regarding Aegon is that he is dead and gone. He has to make people believe that his silly fairy-tale story of benevolent eunuchs and cheesemongers and pisswater princes is true. The only way he can hope to do that is by having success in the field. But any sign of weakness can easily reverse things. That is why Aegon was supposed to marry Daenerys and was earlier supposed to ally with Viserys III and his Dothraki. If all he has is just the word of the likes of Varys and Connington he has pretty much nothing. And that will be his undoing, sooner or later. The idea that some guy can just claim he is a long dead prince and thus seriously harm or damage the claim of the last genuine Targaryen who is also a kind of miracle person bringing back the extinct dragons is a pretty big stretch. Even if Aegon were genuine, there are a number of precedents where the elder line was passed over for scion of the younger, if the eldest son died. Aerys II himself named Viserys III his heir rather than Aegon, and Viserys III, in turn, named his sister Daenerys. People who care about legal prattle in Westeros would know this ... but the dragons are a much better argument. As is the high likelihood that Aegon is a fake. Well, yes, of course, right now no king can be 'good' in the sense that they can't make the Realm prosper. Which is pretty much the issue we talk about here. Aegon certainly might be able to win the allegiance of a considerable number of lords and knights - for the time being, at least - but that will just further the division in the Realm and prevent the existing factions from working together. He doesn't have to be 'evil' to be forced to act as a tyrant, just as Dany doesn't have to be. And my point never is that she will be some kind of super gentle queen or anything ... I say her personal and military power will cow people into submission and/or motivate them to join her because it is better to be in the winning team than in the loser's team. The notion that the Westerosi give a shit about butchered Ghiscari or even Essosi from the Free Cities is very low. They do not permit slavery, either, and view the merchant lords and magisters of the Free Cities with contempt, anyway. Beric and Cat returning didn't involve blood magic. It just happened, and, in the belief of Thoros and his followers, because the god R'hllor himself made it happen. We have no even remotely similar miracle from any of the other deities. Yes, but that is not mirrored by, say, a good or at least decent group of ice priests or ice sorcerers. Sure enough, there was monstrous fire magic going on in the past in Old Valyria. But that is over for centuries. The dragons are basically just animals whose existence is no threat to anyone ... while the fire magic of the red priests is, overall, a good thing, although used in questionable manners sometimes (Melisandre's shadowbinding isn't fire magic, that is shadowbinding). The only ice magic the books have to offer so far are the magic of the Others, and they are clearly evil ice demons who want to destroy all of humanity, perhaps all life on the planet. The Valyrian mages never wanted to that, as far as we know. In that sense, the fire mages we see in the series are champions of life. They fight the ultimate enemy. If there is an apocalypse it will be one of ice and winter and darkness, not one of fire and summer and light.# Ice is not totally bad in principle in the books, of course. But as a faction in the symbolic 'Song of Ice and Fire' it is clearly standing for the villains, the Others, not the good guys. I'm just saying that Aegon is a fake savior - regardless whether he is Rhaegar's son or not -, I'm not saying Dany is the only savior. The dragon has three heads. There are three people at the core of this prophecy, and Aegon is not not one of them. But, of course, as this is a really big ensemble show there will be other crucial heroes in addition to the three dragon heads as well. And perhaps Aegon might even play a small part there. I'm not running around saying he must die early. The Westerlands are not spent, Aegon has a lousy power base even with Dorne, and Euron is the most dangerous - and likely most powerful - player in the entire book series. If you don't see that, I can't help you. We are entering the magical volumes of this fantasy series now. What Mel did for Stannis in ACoK will pale compared to what spells Euron (and others) will work now that magic is growing stronger by the day. Do you really think people will even learn or care to learn what happens there? Slaver's Bay is at the far end of the world. Mace Tyrell received a report about things there, and perhaps a handful of other lords ... but who will care about such stories now that winter has set in and pretty much anybody will be starving? Do you care about reports from the far end of the world?
  9. I think I specifically referenced the fighting pit thing regarding her being naive. She gives in to demands of the pit fighters who were formally enslaved who Hizdahr propped up to support his arguments. She doesn't know how to counter a former slave's demand to continue in his/her monstrous profession, even more so in light of the crucial role the pit fighters played in the fall of Meereen. Ditto with her inability to counter Xaro's story about the formerly rich guy who wants to be his slave now. She shies away from paternalism there, but people living in a fucked up society that is changing need to be told that they can't do depraved things in the new society, even if they want to or are fine with the consequences. One of the best examples would be a ten-year-old child laborer whose income helps to feed and clothe his ailing mother. We can't allow him to work for a living at that age, and we do have to change the circumstances that force him to work. The correct reply to the pit fighters would have been 'Do something else! Join my freedmen companies, become sellswords, do learn another trade. The blood sport times are over.' And to Xaro: 'You will release that man at once, and you will also free all the slaves you brought with you to Meereen. If you want to help your old friend then give him an annual allowance or buy him back his old house or hire him as a clerk or official, but I won't have your filthy slavery shit in my city!' Dany is not naive about her marriage to Hizdahr, of course. But she is also naive in her belief that she can trust Galazza Galare or any of the Meereenese elite to the point that she does. She actually think they might accept her eventually, and she also thinks they have a real interest in peace and co-existence ... when they simply don't. The only shared interest they have is to prevent a sacking of the city by the Yunkish allies ... because that might result in further loss of wealth and perhaps also in the establishment of direct Yunkish rule in Meereen. And that is then why the Green Grace makes the Hizdahr match and has him broker a peace with Yunkai and the others so they can prevent a direct conflict, undermine Daenerys from within, and eventually kill her off so that the Meereenese figurehead king at her side can take over. This only fails because the leader of the Yunkai'i, Yurkhaz zo Yunzak, who was in favor of peace, is trampled to death in Daznak's Pit and the second most influential Yunkish leader, Yezzan zo Qogaz, who has similar inclinations, mounts the Pale Mare. Then the hawks among the Yunkai'i gain traction, backed and urged on by the sellsword commander Bloodbeard who wants spoils. And all the Yunkish allies also know that the Volantenes are on the way, having declared war on Dany independently of their own coalition (but urged on by their envoy). The peace they created is not likely to survive the arrival of the Volantenes, anyway, so if there are spoils to be had, they better sack the city now, or else they would have to share. Nah, that is a monstrous practice, no matter the reasons or justification or history of the practice. That people raised/living in that culture/society defend or like it, doesn't change that simple fact. The pit fighters speak up not only for themselves but as pawns in Hizdahr's new enterprise. He, a former slaver who would like to restore slavery and seize power in Meereen by way of marrying Daenerys Targaryen, bought up all the fighting pits and would fill his pockets from the profit the fighting generates ... while the actual pit fighters would get a small salary (and perhaps some price money if they 'win') and risk their very lives in each fight. There is no defense or justification for that. And the ironic part of that is that some of the very pit fighters who served as Hizdahr's pawns earlier - I do remember Barsena, specifically - end up being brutally butchered in Daznak's Pit.
  10. Sorry, but the pit fighters were slaves, originally. They weren't put out of work, they were freed. Hizdahr then comes in as a rich capitalist who basically offers the now 'unemployed' pit fighters to hire them as 'workers' to continue their 'trade'. But their trade is monstrous savagery that has to be abolished along with slavery. It is like hiring a freed sex slave back as a paid prostitute. The trade is bad in general, not only if it involves slavery. Dany is too naive/stupid to see that, just as she has no good refutation ready to deal with Xaro's cunning defense/justification of slavery.
  11. Didn't mean you there, as I dimly recall that the essays in questions also draw such parallels. A real parallel to US history, as @SeanF and I did lay out in earlier discussions, can be the Civil War and Abe Lincoln to a point. Dany is a self-taught prodigy, too, married to a slaver (descendant), etc. who is radicalized over time. Not to mention that George himself echoes the pre-war abolitionist sentiments that America has to do away with slavery with 'fire and blood' in his own slaver states novel 'Fevre Dream'. And historically it is quite clear that the war wasn't enough. The American slavery elite lost their slaves but not their power and wealth, allowing the country to continue in racialized apartheid and racism for decades and, to a point, into the present. In ADwD, Dany is acting like a post-Lincoln president, trying to heal wounds and bridge gaps ... when the work is not completely done. But the silly interpretation of quite a few American readers is to take the viewpoint of the degenerate slavers in a kind of unconscious defence of their own slaver ancestors or slaver founding fathers. Daenerys is faulted for invading a 'foreign culture' when in fact the only issue they differ about is slavery. And the fucking slavers are put down by freed slaves. When the Unsullied butcher the Astapori the idea isn't that they do this as they would do any other thing. It is something they would have wanted to do for a very long time. Dany is just a catalyst there. We also see that in detail with the rekindled hope for freedom in the Volantene slaves. Dany fails when she compromises and listens to degenerates like Xaro, Galazza, and Hizdahr. They and their ways have to go. If they are spared or not otherwise neutralized effectively, you get the plot of ADwD. Changing a system in a rather small city state is not hard. Kill the crucial members of the elite, dispossess and exile the rest. Do away with slavery, and redistribute the obscene wealth of the slavers. It is not going to be paradise tomorrow, but it would be a decent start. Bigger states would be harder to change, of course. Dany and her regime are about to lose the freedmen when she disappears. The Unsullied refuse to fight for and defend Meereen under King Hizdahr. A tidbit of more slaver accommodating could have very well lead to serious friction in Dany's camp.
  12. It is kind of funny how American readers of ASoIaF actually parallel Dany's story in Slaver's Bay with the recent American wars. Those are non-parallels. Daenerys is no super power dominating the world, she is a young girl living in fantasy world. She speaks the same language as the Ghiscari and while there are some religious and cultural differences, they share a similar background (Dothraki culture is really different from Ghiscari and Valyrian culture). The one, the only issue of contention between them is slavery and the slave trade, especially as practiced by the degenerate Ghiscari.
  13. It isn't all that big a thing, just something that feels disjointed to me. There is serious lack of worldbuilding/backstory, which is strange since that's an adaptation spanning over 5 hours combined. From what I remember from the novel and the appendix it is that Duke Leto was both very popular in the Landsraad as well as kind of (unintentionally) mimicking the Sardaukar thing with the Atreides troops. Shaddam faces a serious succession problem due to the fact that his wife, unlike Jessica, gave him only daughters. There is certainly motivation for Shaddam to dislike or fear Leto as a rival ... but doing what he did there is clearly over the top since there were other, obvious alternatives (binding the Atreides to House Corrino via marriages - he could have even thrown two daughters on them, one for Leto, one for Paul), even more so as the movie turns Mohiam into the architect of the Harkonnen plan. Which is a clear diversion from the novel and also causes problem in the movie continuity as Mohiam did test Paul only after she decided to destroy House Atreides completely. What was the point of that when Paul was already a dead man/animal walking/crawling? In the book it is clear that she extends some help to Jessica and Paul via Margot precisely because she does not want the Atreides bloodline to die out. Not exactly, but the Harkonnen thing certainly makes him feel tainted for a while. Ditto with Alia. I think he gave him a cheap cop-out with the 'the great houses don't accept your ascension to the throne' - which was a ridiculous line, what do they want to do, risk the destruction of the spice or that the Fremen cut them off for good? - as it gives him and the Fremen a pretext for their 'holy war'. In the book there is literally none. Those madmen just run amok and he can do nothing to stop them. And the point of the crusade is to force the universe to worship the living god of the Fremen, not to seize or consolidate power. They also set up the corrupt clergy we see in DM.
  14. Sure, but it is random that he 1) does it the south, 2) does it exactly where Jessicalia sets up things for him. The groundwork scene kind of needs a 'do it there' scene, or else the groundwork scene feels as disjointed as it is now. At this point he doesn't see the future in great detail. Earlier scenes establish Paul's fear of becoming the tool/figurehead of the Fremen fanatics in the south, but not that he fears the water of life ceremony for similar reasons. It might kill him, sure, but knowing stuff doesn't turn him into a religious icon. Revealing what he knows and acting like an omniscient savior does. The sequence there is strangely reminiscent of the Lynch version where things are equally disjointed. The average viewer doesn't understand why this whole thing is necessary nor what it means. I mean, there are many Paul-Chani scenes, but they should have talked more about Kwisatz Haderach stuff. What does it mean for Paul to drink the stuff? We don't know, just as we don't know what it meant for Jessicalia. Some old woman says 'abomination' once, but what does that mean? Jessicalia becomes a kind of weirdo freak after the ceremony, but we don't really know why. Also, of course, playing up the Harkonnens as this big threat to the Fremen undermines their agency. They have been always in control of their planet, they are the best fighters in the known universe. Nobody ever colonized that planet nor did the Harkonnens ever gain the upper hand over the Fremen via 'superior technology'. The analogous book sequence to the destruction of Sietch Tabr is the much later Sardaukar raid of the place which leads to the death of Paul's first son by Chani and the capture of Alia. That works because there are only women and children there are the Sardaukar outnumber them.
  15. The CGI was pretty cringe though, no? Appa looked very strange at times, ditto the direct interaction with Momo, etc.
  16. Dragonrider and politician are not mutually exclusive. But the notion that this hideous kinslayer monstrosity ends up being allowed into the inner circles of the absent queen Daenerys - or into her own after her eventual return - is just a huge stretch. He has nothing to offer but the worst reputation imaginable, a hideous face, and neither gold nor swords. Even right now the notion that he can actually direct the Second Sons is barely believable. He bribed Ben with empty promises ... something that only worked because Ben and his buddies aren't exactly keen to die for the Yunkai'i. Cersei is the Lady of Casterly Rock. If she lives and can leave KL to return to CR she will be a very powerful force again. Even more so if she ends up allying with and marrying Euron. And the Lords of the Vale, the Riverlords and common Riverlanders hellbent on payback, partially directed by an undead monstrosity, literally tens of thousands of Reach men, etc. They all have choices to make and a lot to offer. She certainly wants to rule ... but she already has a people. Peoples, plural, in fact. Westeros is but a name to her right now, a name and a place she doesn't care much about. Technically she should decide to stay in Essos as the actual roots of Valyrian dragonlords are in Essos. She is now in the unique position to try to build a new Valyria in the old Valyrian colonies. Why not take over Volantis and unify all the other Free Cities under her rule, creating a new Valyrian empire? And it is pretty obvious that what's going to convince her to move west when she does isn'+ütt going to be talk about Aegon, but information about the Others and the prophecy given to her by Archmaester Marwyn. The Aegon thing might play a minor role, but it isn't the core of that plot. Nobody said anything about Aegon being killed. He could easily enough be just deposed. That Aegon is not going to be a good or successful king or a hero is unfortunately foreshadowed. That is not something that is up for debate. Even without prophecy stuff pointing in that direction it is quite clear the lad has no chance against Euron-Cersei-Stannis-Littlefinger, etc. He can become a warlord and pretender to the Iron Throne (while sitting it) but he won't unify the Seven Kingdoms again nor control more than a tiny fraction of it. I don't think the plot indicates that we are going to waste hundreds of pages with another Targaryen conquest campaign. Aegon will get that now, but Daenerys won't get that after him. That would be pointless. There might be a smaller scale conflict, but against the backdrop of the war against the Others. There is no need for a moral dilemma regarding her right to rule. She her brother's heir, period. Playing that up would be as silly as demanding a struggle between the surviving Starks who should retake the North and Winterfell. We would have that in a mundane historical book series about a mundane succession war, but not in this setting. Dany will have to deal with the legacy of her mad father, wondering whether her dynasty was actually justly deposed and now has to regain the right to rule again. But that's a dilemma all Targaryen descendants face. You see how it goes. People *know* or rather *believe* that Cersei's children are impostors ... yet they back(ed) them while they and their family are strong. Aegon's case will be similar, but worse because he claims to be a dead guy. People will only believe he is 'a prince' while he has success. When he shows weakness, makes mistakes, etc. people will abandon him in droves. He is the Perkin Warbeck of Westeros, not the Henry Tudor. For Dany the actual identity of Aegon shouldn't matter all that much. She could marry her real nephew just as well as a guy who claims to be her nephew if it lends strength to House Targaryen. But she would not want to believe he is fake, nor think it her duty to rush to Westeros and stop him if she somehow knew for a fact he was fake. I mean, she married fucking Hizdahr for peace's sake ... why not also do it with her (fake) nephew? I'm not writing the story, but I point out tendencies and problems with certain ideas. A struggle between Dany and Aegon works if certain events happen - Aegon has to be successful, has to survive until she shows up, has to be unwilling to marry her, etc. - but those events are not guaranteed as of yet. He can't possibly be a good king as a good king would have to restore peace to Westeros in winter and while the Others are making their move. That is impossible. That is you ignoring very crucial writing at the wall. Come on, it will be months and perhaps more than a year until Dany's armies can set foot on Westerosi shores. The Others won't sit on their hands that long ... nor will people keep quiet this long. Rumors and stories will spread. These people cannot dismiss all new from the Wall when literally everybody up north is going to say the same thing. You are right that we don't know, but it is also rather obvious that two Targaryen invasions/conquests in close succession would make for poor storytelling. Even more so as there are many other plots and characters to fit together in all that. Just take Jon - he will learn who he is eventually, so he would have to make a choice there if there was all the time in the world for some Dance shenanigans while the Others sit on their hands. That's not likely to happen. You should read George's remark about the converts in the Riverlands. Thoros' god is real to his followers, and he does answer prayers and works miracle, unlike the other deities so far. That's why he has success. And fire mages and priests will have even more success when winter has come. I mean, seriously, Melisandre is literally hot! That might be eerie and weird and scary in normal times, but if I was stuck in a most shitty Westerosi winter I would do everything to be get close to her skirts. And not because of her gorgeous skin, but simply because it would decrease the risk of freezing to death at night. Fire can kill, too, but it also symbolizes passion and life and love, something ice doesn't do. It preserves things, especially the millennia-old revenge plans of some extinct elves, but there are no pleasant qualities to ice. I guess those people will then also sit on their hands for months while a feigned boy magically wins the allegiance of everybody... She will stronger, she will look as if she can deal with the real crisis, something the little false plague king won't be able to do.
  17. Hihi, I do understand. It is really a pity the guy was missing yet again (the TV show version was a joke), especially since they really elaborated on the Kwisatz Haderach contingency bloodlines with Feyd-Rautha. Was surprised how close to the source material the Giedi Prime Feyd-Rautha scenes were, right down to the actually superfluous inclusion of the saving of the Harkonnen bloodline (in FH's books that plot is only kind of referenced when we get to Hwi Noree's ancestry centuries later), and Lady Margot was great ... so why not have the guy there as Shaddam's seemingly awkward errand boy who then shows Feyd-Rautha he isn't the deadliest guy in town? And then later give him his empathetic moment with Paul. The character isn't exactly crucial, but conceptually he adds another layer to the whole breeding program plot. Thinking about it - the Fenrings could also have kind of featured in the first movie since Margot gives Jessica the warning there. It is also sad that Thufir Hawat completely disappeared (yet again), that they failed to include some foreshadowing for Duncan Idaho's return (which must happen in the next movie if it is going to be a remotely faithful adaptation of DM), and that the Liet-Chani connection was completely ignored. It was clear in part one that they wanted to reveal Liet-Kynes role with the Fremen since there are, 2-3 scenes, I think, where her special role is hinted at. And her being Chani's mother would have greatly helped to establish her skepticism about savior stuff, etc. as Liet was promising a slow but certain transformation of Arrakis through science. I do expect that some such scenes were scripted/shot but cut for not exactly great reasons. The pacing of part two isn't all that good, focusing too much on Paul/Chani without giving other characters time to develop. Best example for that is the scene where Jessica lays the groundwork for Paul's water of life trial, the southern journey montage, and then Paul's completely random decision to go to that temple and ask for the water. Scenes between him and Jessicalia were missing there, I think, or should have been written. He was afraid of trying that, and there was little to no talk between him and Jessicalia since shortly after her trial. The weird take on Alia also feels strange. They could easily have had a small time jump between the movies (say, by way of finishing part one with Jessica becoming a Reverend Mother) or also by way of a time jump within the movies by way of concentrating a bit more on Kaitain/Giedi Prime or longer campaigns on Arrakis. Alia's confrontation with the Baron is one of the most crucial and also most iconic scenes of the novel (and in all the adaptations so far), not to mention that it is also the groundwork for her later plot on CoD. I know that Villeneuve doesn't want to adapt CoD, but if somebody else continues the series I think a crucial tidbit of backstory is missing there.
  18. The movie gets Paul's journey very well, but not much else. Don't like fanatical godmother Jessica dancing on unborn Alia's strings. Neither the somewhat warped introduction of skeptical Fremen - Chani excluded to a point, as she knows Paul as a human being. That was a way to undermine a 'white savior' interpretation of the film, but the story, especially with 'Dune Messiah' in mind, makes it clear that the Fremen run the show and always did so. They were fed religious propaganda in the past, but they develop it themselves. Just as they turned themselves into the greatest warriors of all time. They are far better and cooler Sardaukar, and while the first movie went into Sardaukar backstory, presumably to prepare for the Fremen parallels ... the second movie did not elaborate on that. The biggest letdown at the end is that Paul gets a real pretext/excuse for the djihad. In the book the blackmail thing works. The throne is his. He has won. But his fanatical followers torch the known universe anyway, because they must teach the heretics and heathens out there to properly respect and worship the living god. The djihad has nothing to do with seizing power or establishing Paul as emperor, it is a religious thing of the Fremen. And, of course, the Fremen can only leave Arrakis in droves because the Guild lets them ... which they do because the Fremen can end Spice production for good. But the same thing would also force the other houses to submit. The only point of the war is religious fanaticism, there is literally no other point to it. Also, of course, every Dune adaptation missing Hasimir Fenring sucks on principle. Not sure about Shaddam's portrayal. His grief for Leto is nice, but why exclude that he and Leto were cousins, too, and Leto didn't marry because he aimed for an Imperial bride? And thinking about that ... Herbert himself fails to explain why sonless Shaddam didn't marry Irulan or another daughter to either Leto or Paul to diffuse the tension and set up the successor he needed. The whole Harkonnen plot only makes sense in a context where the Atreides have formed an alternative power center House Corrino cannot possibly integrate into their system. But that isn't the case. Mohiam wanting to discard an entire bloodline in that silly fashion sounds like utter stupidity. Speaking of her, while her being Jessica's mother comes up only later in the books, it could have been interesting to show that here. And Vladimir's plan to perhaps oust Shaddam by way of revealing the truth about the Atreides plan sounds like utter nonsense as this would likely also include the destruction of House Harkonnen by the great houses. It would have made more sense if they had planned to have Feyd-Rautha marry Irulan.
  19. Only through four episodes so far and not much of a fan. Many actors don't seem to feel the role - Aang is good, but I don't feel Katara and Sokka and Azula at all. Mai and Ty Lee also are anything but impressive. Also think the costumes don't translate well into a real world setting, at least those of the Water Tribe. Especially Sokka pretty much sucks with the removal of the sexism and his actual issues. The entire story with Suki made little sense that way. Not to mention that it was pretty silly to remove Aang trying to run away from his Avatar destiny. With him being frozen effectively completely accidentally the entire guilt part of his character development has little to no foundation. Didn't like how they portrayed Zosin and Ozai so far. They retained the fire wall, but effectively ignored it at the same time. The original show made a huge point in not showing Ozai's face too early as well as using the Fire Lord behind the fire curtain to emphasize how powerful and detached he is from mundane things. Now both effectively do their own dirty work. That is a letdown. The changes to Zhao are a mildly interesting, but Zuko comes across as 'too good too early' (the original version is more frustrated and more caught up in his own struggles) whilst Iroh is a bit too dark. Yes, the guy once was a mighty impressive general and the original show failed to explore his relationship with Ozai. But even before the death of his son he was quite different from his father and Ozai and 'Fire Nation supremacy' as his affiliation with the White Lotus and his lie about slaying the a dragon showed. Also have trouble with talks about various types of bending being at the core of 'the culture' of various peoples, especially with the Southern Water Tribe. Yes, it is part of their culture, but not necessarily the defining trait as, for instance, the fact that the Earth Kingdom royal dynasty apparently never produced any benders. There is more to those cultures than just the bending thing. Did like the addition of Suki's mother and the focus on Kyoshi, but not the changes to Bumi. Also, of course, moving around Jet and the trip through the cave - which was a very nice romantic episode in the original - just undermines things rather than making them better or more interesting. Also, why not have the gang decide on their own to go to the Northern Water Tribe for training rather than doing it by way of a cryptic Avatar warning? Not sure about Azula being driven by ambition, either. She craves the love her father and while Zuko might be the elder sibling, he is pretty much always a disappointment to his father, being less of a bender than Azula is. And as Ozai himself usurped the place of his elder brother, Azula pushing aside Zuko is something she could easily do. She never actually feared him or his claim.
  20. It makes sense, because Tyrion is 'dragon guy' since AGoT. The only dragonlore expert we have, and the only guy who actually dreams of dragons in the story aside from Teora Toland and Daenerys. Tyrion is the character most associated with dragons aside from Dany. I mean, it is kind of silly to assume that any of Dany's dragons are destined from the start of the story for the likes of Brown Ben or Victarion, right? If he dies early then his would be a completely different role. Which would be fine, too. Euron could easily enough take care of him and he and Cersei would be much better and more dangerous 'mundane opponents' for Daenerys, anyway. What would be the point of such a plot? She only does what she does because she feels it is her duty as the last member of her family. If there was another she could retire or follow her own dreams. But even if such a plot would come it would be better if a real pretender were to challenge her, not a fake one. And Aegon is a fake. And like Stannis is a fake savior many people know or suspect on the basis of his silly fake sword, Aegon's true identity might be out in the open undermining his claim long before Dany even shows up. Just as people already know who Tommen and Myrcella actually are. Dany wants family, you say. And you are right there. But these people do incest and they did polygamy in the past. Even if both were married and in love by the time they meet, they could marry each other. Dany has no intrinsic motivation to kill her nephew, but he already abandoned her. It is clear who will make this not work. I made it clear that the (placeholder) dragonriders should win her trust and might betray her. Those are a lot of bumps and problems, they just don't involve Aegon. Aegon might be successful as a conqueror in the beginning, but he won't be a successful king. He isn't the hero, he is the Mummer's Dragon, literally a prop in a play for the real hero (Dany) to fight. He is a fake king and a fake savior. Like Stannis, he will help to push Westeros further into darkness and despair. That is obvious, as he is propped up by a magic-hating eunuch at a time when magic is the one thing that could, perhaps, save Westeros. Aegon is a secular savior at at time when this world is in desperate need of a magical savior. And we already have a big hint how his reign is going to turn into a catastrophe - his Hand is not only a dead man walking risking a lot because he has no time for caution ... he also is the carrier of a deadly disease which can and did turn into a monstrous pandemic in the past. George didn't waste entire paragraphs on the three strains of greyscale/the grey plague to convince us that Jon Connington's infection is only endangering Jon Connington. Ditto with Shireen's seemingly dormant greyscale in the North. You don't see a core theme of the story - the magical dimension. Yes, Dany might launch an invasion with many foreigners the Westerosi people would loathe if they came in a normal season. But they won't. They will come in the new Long Night, when the dead rise from their graves and ice demons stalk the roads. They will need dragons, they will need fire mages, and they will need the promised prince. Aegon won't be able to give them any of that. In fact, if he is going to team up with the Faith as he might he might even fight against the converts to R'hllor in the Riverlands and other genuine magical traditions, people Westeros desperately needs to survive. And with Euron and Stannis and Cersei and Littlefinger and Jon Snow and whoever else might form their own faction still out there, chances are very low indeed that Aegon could ever form a united front against Daenerys. And all people who might end up declaring for Aegon will be Targaryen loyalists enough to switch to another Targaryen pretender if she looks better/stronger (which she will, as a dragonrider and the person who brought the dragons back). Also, of course, all factions still opposing Aegon by the time Dany arrives are her natural allies, a fact that could create strange bedfellows indeed.
  21. The bigger local problem would be New Ghis, actually, not Mantarys and Tolos, but yeah. Volantis will see a revolution now, thanks to the Old Blood insisting on a war against Daenerys ... but exporting her revolution from Meereen would have been hard.
  22. Theme-wise, the essays certainly focused on a part of ADwD many other readers - and many of them even on this board - never got or ignored. Namely, Dany's real struggle to create a lasting peace and be the just queen of both (former) slavers and slaves, and how that involves compromises and mistakes. But the actual analysis and prognosis of future plots is severe lacking. Crushing the slaver culture completely is not bad. Fire and blood is no bad approach there, it is the only thing facilitating lasting change. In ASoS she started as the Conqueror, turned herself into Aenys in ADwD, barely avoiding the poison ... and to finish this thing she needs one or two pages out of Maegor's book. If the plot had her settle in Slaver's Bay for good she would have to become Jaehaerys eventually ... but that isn't the plot.
  23. Rhaegar isn't the only source for this, nor did he decide to put three dragons in the story. Tyrion is the most obvious, and the best candidate to be a dragonrider. He was so since AGoT. It works best with the Targaryen backstory but just as well without that since we also have Dragonbinder. Aegon is not there for Daenerys, just as Stannis isn't. Both feature as fake saviors in one of her prophecies, but this doesn't mean she, personally, has to unmask, fight, and defeat them. She might, but chances that she will ever meet Stannis are pretty low ... and Aegon might bite the dust, too, long before she moves her lazy ass west. Aegon is not a variation of the Jon Snow theme. Jon (and Tyrion, in my idea) are people whose mothers died birthing them and asked their male loved ones to raise their child as their own. Aegon is more like Cersei's children, being deceived about who he truly is by his parents/guardians. Aegon is an alleged prince in exile, not a hidden prince in the sense that he himself (and the reader) don't know who he is. Aegon's big plot twist might be the same as Tommen's or Myrcella's ... learning that they are not who they think they are, and losing their entire identity in the process of that revelation. And insofar as a potential conflict goes ... Aegon and his people will start it, not Dany. Because she would add her strength to his and make an alliance. That will only not happen if he rejects her from the start because he feels he no longer needs her. Which he already did to a point by invading on his own and not reaching out to her. Whoever ends up claiming Viserion and Rhaegal in Meereen will be Dany's family for the time being, proven by them having the blood of the dragon or at least the semblance of it, not some guy pretending to be her nephew. Dany believes the other two dragon heads will claim the other two dragons. So whoever does that will be very important to her. Although it might eventually be revealed that one or even two of those might turn out to be traitors or simply not the final dragonriders, those who end up doing prophecy stuff with her. And of course Aegon is a fake savior and false king set up by Varys calculating that the Westerosi people long for a return of the golden Targaryen era. That is why he uses an alleged son of beloved Rhaegar. If he has any success at all then only because people want to believe this clichéd story. And George will have fun depicting how Aegon fucks it up. Because Aegon isn't the hero.
  24. The essays are quite weird indeed, I only read them once a many years ago. They do miss/ignore crucial tidbits a close reading of the text would reveal what is actually going on, for instance, Hizdahr actually liking spicy food ... which betrays his lie when Barristan accuses him of being complicit in the poisoning. Or the Green Grace's cousin's dismissed claim to profit from the weaver business leading to the Sons of the Harpy killing the weavers ... which indicates that Galazza Galare herself is coordinating the attacks of the Sons. With such clues you can't build theories which have Hizdahr or Galazza as honest peace brokers ... and of course all the Yunkai'i want is bathe in Dany's blood (but under Yurkhaz and while Yezzan was still alive they were willing to just demand Dany's head and leave Meereen unsacked and Hizdahr in charge). Not to mention that Skahaz has no reason to not be totally in team Dany. The only time when the Meereenese elite were still cautious was while the dragons were still a real factor and Dany had not yet shown her willingness to compromise everything in exchange for the promise of peace. Then they smelled weakness and blood in the water and decided to destroy her one cut a time.
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