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Lord Varys

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About Lord Varys

  • Birthday 11/25/1982

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  • Most Devious 'Man' In The Seven Kingdoms
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    Definitely somewhere in King's Landing

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  1. From what we know or I think I heard is that neither Daeron nor Nettles have been cast for season 2. But the story doesn't seem to advance very far. The dragonseeds can claim their dragons over a longer period of time in the show, meaning Nettles might come into the fray only in season 3. Even in the book the Sowing likely wasn't over in a fortnight. It might have never actually ended as, say, would-be dragonriders might have continued to search for the Grey Ghost until his death, etc. The text even has them bring up new dragonriders at the first Black Council ... and then they apparently don't do anything in that regard for an entire year. Also, it is a great idea to build up Hugh and Ulf and their eventual betrayal slowly. Hugh, especially, wants to be king eventually, a process that slowly developed over time. Condal has said, I think, they will depict the war as something where many people think they have to choose between Rhaenyra and Aegon ... while others think they might make even better kings. One of those clearly seems to be Aemond, especially during his time as Prince Regent (a position he might actually be determined to never give up again), the others would be Hugh and Ulf, eventually. The show might very well portray one of them as Rhaenys' half-brother (Aemon's bastard) while the other could be Daemon's half-brother. Daeron should definitely be mentioned a lot in season 2 if they don't show him yet. It is odd to postpone his appearance yet again, but it seems they moved the entire Reach fighting plot to season 3, not just Daeron. Season 2 is going to focus on fighting in the Crownlands (Rosby, Stokeworth, Duskendale, Rook's Rest), the Riverlands (Harrenhal, Battle of the Burning Mill, possibly culminating the Battle of the Red Fork), and some additional Vale and North stuff (no fighting there, apparently). But if they moved all the Reach stuff to season 3 they are not likely to rush the Fall of King's Landing, meaning season 3 might feature Reach stuff up until the Battle of the Honeywine before the Battle of the Gullet and/or the Fall of King's Landing. Then they also have to get to the Ironborn stuff which I don't think they want to cut, either. But they might only get involved after Jason Lannister's death leaves the West defenseless.
  2. Again, even if we go with your idea there ... why not just destroy Daemon in the years between his marriage to Rhaenyra and Viserys' death? He is not the heir and he can be ruined, exiled (again) or killed. There are precedents for such murders. This would be infinitely easier than a coup or succession war since the latter will involve much more bloodwork and kinslaying to keep Aegon on the throne. Rhaenyra and her entire bloodline have to go then ... as show Otto correctly points out. The point of making Aegon king is to make Aegon king. That is the agenda, and nothing else. If Alicent were truly afraid for the lives of her children because of Daemon she would have found a way to get rid of him. She effectively runs the government in episode 8 ... and years ago her foot sex buddy killed two crucial men very easily and effectively. The idea that Rhaenyra can only sit safely on her throne when Alicent's sons are dead is not suggested by either book or show. Rhaenyra is the chosen and anointed heir as per royal decree. It doesn't hinge on her not having trueborn (half-)brothers. Alicent's children would be safe unless they plotted treason. If it were different, Viserys I himself would have found ways to neutralize Aegon, Aemond, and Daeron (say, by sending them to the Wall, make one of them a KG, maester, septon, etc.). Vice versa it is not the same as the show itself depicts. Rhaenyra and her bloodline have to go because they are a threat to Aegon since Rhaenyra was the chosen and anointed heir. That is what Otto says. Rhaenyra and Daemon never have such thoughts, nor does Alicent truly believe stuff like that (in episode 6 she tells Aegon shit like that to cut him off from Rhaenyra's sons, but she doesn't really believe that). But to be sure ... the show didn't turn the two women into besties. We only have their honest reconciliation in episode 8 which is then followed by the deathbed word ... which give Alicent final permission to crown Aegon. She now is not an evil bitch turning against her late husband the moment he dies ... she genuinely thinks they were both on the same page in the end. Book Alicent's portrayal is that of a willing seductress (possibly sleeping with Viserys prior to Aemma's death) marrying a man she clearly never loved (we can draw that both from Viserys' rotting in his bedchamber as well as from post-Dance Alicent never taking about her husband). There is little indication in the book that her father pushed her into things against her will. Her reading exploits with King Jaehaerys I show that she had a lot of ambition and agency on her own ... there was nothing the Hightowers or Otto personally could gain from having his daughter care for the senile old man. This is the narrator telling us that Alicent Hightower wanted to be close to royalty. She is conceived as a Targaryen groupie, basically. Later on Alicent and her inability to get along with her stepdaughter is what sows the seeds of the Dance. It is her character flaws that are the problem, her toxic remarks, her unwillingness to accept the decree of her lord husband and king. Otto might play a minor role there in the book, too, but he is gone when things really sour between Rhaenyra and Alicent and he also had nothing to do with ensuring the children would not get along with each other. Book Rhaenyra might also share a portion of the blame there, but she is never portrayed as the active party. No records about toxic remarks from her or her side. More glaring are things in the book because of the age gap between the two women - no 7-14-year-old is to be blamed for not getting along with her stepmother if said stepmother is ten years older. There are such things as the accountability of adults as compared to childish behavior of ... children and adolescents. Alicent could have won Rhaenyra's love or at least affection. They could have worked as a family. That they did not is, as per the narrative, Alicent's fault. With the incest thing going on there were quite a few ways to tie the branches of the family together ... but that wasn't what she wanted. Her only goal was to make Aegon king, not to make, say, a son or grandson of Jacaerys and Helaena king. This is why the template of the book Alicent actually seems to be Livia from I, Claudius. Alicent is the evil stepmother who wants to push aside her stepdaughter (and her children) for the benefit of putting her own (favorite?) son on the throne. That is the only agenda, and everything else serves that endgame. Alicent's feigns affection and love to Viserys but only uses him as an instrument to get what she wants, not caring for his wishes. The show made things more interesting by making Rhaenyra and Alicent not die-hard enemies from some years after the birth of Aegon and Aemond but made things more complex. They also retained the complexity George included in the narrative - which most people either ignore or overlook - that Otto Hightower was actually the architect of Queen Rhaenyra. He made her the Heir Apparent. In the show Alicent partially retains that view, a view that was her father's originally. That all said - I also don't like the lack of Alicent's ambition. Her being unhappy with her role as queen is silly. That is what she wanted - or should have wanted in the show, even if she didn't love Viserys - it shouldn't have been something her father pushed on her with her not being able to feel comfortable in that role years after her marriage and some time after the birth of her elder children. But things like the Green Council cutting her out because she was the woman actually do make sense in a scenario where she is not actually an evil scheming bitch feigning affection and love for the king while secretly plotting with her evil cronies all the time. Still, I'd have preferred it if Alicent's role as queen had slowly pushed her into a position where she was ordering around her father and the council rather than being treated as a pawn by them. They could have still made coup plans behind her back ... only for them quickly realizing that this was a grievous mistake when Alicent learned what they were doing.
  3. By the way, a Black trailer is silly as the show neither named nor established Rhaenyra's faction so far, so only book readers know the name. Why they would call themselves that is, of course, equally unclear as Rhaenyra's dress was dropped completely.
  4. That would be motivation/justification to kill Daemon ... but it doesn't make Aegon a good or even mediocre potential king. It doesn't give good motivation for the coup. The show's narrative of 'Viserys changing his mind on his deathbed' repairs the second major flaw in George's outline - the biggest blunder being Daemon and Rhaenyra not preparing for the succession struggle that's firmly on the table at least since 120 AC, counting on teenagers to forge alliances they should have made personally years ago -, namely, that the Greens don't publicly announce Viserys changed the succession on his deathbed or a some days before, forging his last will and testament. That would have been the obvious way to make Aegon the rightful king in the eyes of the public. Instead we have Eustace portray Aegon as a pious and dutiful son by way of him rejecting the crown that was Rhaenyra's by right ... which makes it clear that Otto and Alicent made no attempt to paint Aegon's coronation as something his father supported in the end, implicitly confirming they are traitors to the late king and his wishes. That is a silly way to stage a coup. The king's word and wishes are the only real law in this land, so not using this authority - real, misunderstood, or forged - is stupid. The show actually made that better. Had George included something like that in FaB his AGoT appendix narrative of Rhaenyra contesting the rise of Aegon II would have actually been accurate again. Who could possibly prove the king didn't have a change of heart on his deathbed? No one. The Blacks could just (want to) believe Rhaenyra was still the rightful heir. Like Stannis believes he is, etc. Alicent acting on behalf of her children, etc. would just reinforce the evil stepmother/slut character she is in the book. We got some nuance there in the show. Alicent is not in the game for herself or her blood, is not the clichéd protector/arbiter of her sons, like book Alicent who is clearly based in some parts on Graves' Livia, but rather somebody who is conflicted because she is part of a larger whole. We also see this with Otto, who isn't just a powerhungry asshole but a guy who is both pushed by his brother as well as deluding himself his/Hightower interests are the interests of the Realm. I think that is actually the best way to show him becoming imperious by way of growing attached to his high office. It is not a two sides narrative ... it is a narrative in which neither side are clean or white heroes since the war as such is wrong, but there is still one side that is clearly worse than the other. And consistently so, especially in the source material. The show added nuance to the Greens, but keeps them as the faction who is 'more evil/corrupt'.
  5. Having both sides use Viserys last words/wishes as their justification is actually a nice way to make them less disgusting powergrabbers. George's Greens let the old man rot in his bed. And making Alicent ambitious for her own brood isn't really agency in modern sense, especially since Aegon is so manifestly unsuited for the job. If we had the book scenario they would have to actually explain how Rhaenyra & Daemon neither saw the coup coming nor prepared for a struggle or war. Dalton Greyjoy is more prepared than they ever were... Yes, there are multiple shots of him but who is the pale white one? Is it Baela on Moondancer doing that fast plunge down or was that a fast cut from her to Aegon? If it is Baela then the chances that she will be at Rook's Rest are pretty good. Would be a nice way to spice things up.
  6. In Braavos there are indeed bravos who duel regularly ... but there are rules for that kind of thing. Sam's black clothes are viewed as a provocation, but even he doesn't really get into trouble. You are like a guy saying because alcohol or weed can be bought in a specific country all people must do it. Only certain people do, just as in Martinworld and similar societies which center around 'honor' only a certain small class of people do have 'honor' to defend or care about. The overwhelming majority of the people don't do duels. It is something for the higher/ruling classes. And in Braavos it is restricted to the bravos. No, slavery is but one part of the problem. Killing people for fun/sport is inherently wrong, too. No reference to 'culture' or 'religion' can justify stuff like that.
  7. Duels over honor issues are not rampant in Westeros nor Essos as far as we know, and they are not something you have to enter into, either. The Dothraki might be a tidbit different ... but that is all a moot point as the pit fighting is deadly blood sport profit, and not something people who are concerned about their 'honor' enter into of their own free will. It works very fine, that is the reason why quite a few cultures and religions are gone these days, and also why people do away with silly practices, like, say, bullfighting. And, of course, the Ghiscari culture as connected to slavery and slavery practices suck hard. It has to go. The rich people have to find some other ways to generate revenue than watching people kill each other.
  8. Not anything, just some things which have clear foreshadowing. The dragon stuff foremost among them. But there is also a chance that he might yet become a king, as the whole thing about his shadow indicated. As tall as a king could very well mean he is going to be a king one day. Not checking your numbers, but the Westerlands are far from spent. There were some losses in both Jaime's and Tywin's armies, but dispersed men can go back home (and likely did do just that). Ditto with the Lannisport army. The military potential of House Lannister is about 65,000 men, according to some sources, and Tywin and Jaime together only marshaled 35,000 men. You also have to consider how fucking rich Cersei Lannister is. If push comes to shove she can buy tens of thousands of sellswords, both in and outside of Westeros. And if she has to flee KL she might actually send representatives to the Disputed Lands to hire men with Lannister gold. Her personal conflict can revolve around other things. That she is, in the end, the true savior and not one of the fake ones like Stannis and Aegon, is actually quite clear by the plot. The entire ironical point of her plot is the fact that she prepares for an invasion/conquest that is, most likely, not going to happen. At least not as an invasion to conquer, but as an invasion to save or to help save people. If she were to come to Westeros as another pretender fighting for her own petty gains/ambitions they are not likely to defeat the Others. Dany is certainly not Henry Tudor, but Aegon is pretty much Perkin Warbeck (coming at a time when no Henry Tudor sits more or less securely on the throne). Aegon is going to be good guy who might try his best ... but who will fail as a king. I've no clue if he is going to be a tyrant or a weakling or both ... but he will fail for this or that reason. Not necessarily to the point that he will be completely done by the time Dany shows up - depending on the kind of story George wants to tell - but a failure nonetheless. Varys has set him up as the perfect prince and savior ... and he just isn't that, as he is not the hero of this story. Ah, no. He has to conclusively prove to the world and the people that he is actually Rhaegar's son ... the world and Dany don't have to disprove that claim. He claims to be a person that is officially dead for seventeen years while not even looking like a properly 18-year-old (rather like 15-16-year-old according to Tyrion). Aegon's situation is Cersei's children reversed. Stannis and his buddies have to prove that the children Robert Baratheon raised as his own are not, in fact, his biological children, but the children don't have to prove that their legal father is their father. Because that is the status quo. The status quo regarding Aegon is that he is dead and gone. He has to make people believe that his silly fairy-tale story of benevolent eunuchs and cheesemongers and pisswater princes is true. The only way he can hope to do that is by having success in the field. But any sign of weakness can easily reverse things. That is why Aegon was supposed to marry Daenerys and was earlier supposed to ally with Viserys III and his Dothraki. If all he has is just the word of the likes of Varys and Connington he has pretty much nothing. And that will be his undoing, sooner or later. The idea that some guy can just claim he is a long dead prince and thus seriously harm or damage the claim of the last genuine Targaryen who is also a kind of miracle person bringing back the extinct dragons is a pretty big stretch. Even if Aegon were genuine, there are a number of precedents where the elder line was passed over for scion of the younger, if the eldest son died. Aerys II himself named Viserys III his heir rather than Aegon, and Viserys III, in turn, named his sister Daenerys. People who care about legal prattle in Westeros would know this ... but the dragons are a much better argument. As is the high likelihood that Aegon is a fake. Well, yes, of course, right now no king can be 'good' in the sense that they can't make the Realm prosper. Which is pretty much the issue we talk about here. Aegon certainly might be able to win the allegiance of a considerable number of lords and knights - for the time being, at least - but that will just further the division in the Realm and prevent the existing factions from working together. He doesn't have to be 'evil' to be forced to act as a tyrant, just as Dany doesn't have to be. And my point never is that she will be some kind of super gentle queen or anything ... I say her personal and military power will cow people into submission and/or motivate them to join her because it is better to be in the winning team than in the loser's team. The notion that the Westerosi give a shit about butchered Ghiscari or even Essosi from the Free Cities is very low. They do not permit slavery, either, and view the merchant lords and magisters of the Free Cities with contempt, anyway. Beric and Cat returning didn't involve blood magic. It just happened, and, in the belief of Thoros and his followers, because the god R'hllor himself made it happen. We have no even remotely similar miracle from any of the other deities. Yes, but that is not mirrored by, say, a good or at least decent group of ice priests or ice sorcerers. Sure enough, there was monstrous fire magic going on in the past in Old Valyria. But that is over for centuries. The dragons are basically just animals whose existence is no threat to anyone ... while the fire magic of the red priests is, overall, a good thing, although used in questionable manners sometimes (Melisandre's shadowbinding isn't fire magic, that is shadowbinding). The only ice magic the books have to offer so far are the magic of the Others, and they are clearly evil ice demons who want to destroy all of humanity, perhaps all life on the planet. The Valyrian mages never wanted to that, as far as we know. In that sense, the fire mages we see in the series are champions of life. They fight the ultimate enemy. If there is an apocalypse it will be one of ice and winter and darkness, not one of fire and summer and light.# Ice is not totally bad in principle in the books, of course. But as a faction in the symbolic 'Song of Ice and Fire' it is clearly standing for the villains, the Others, not the good guys. I'm just saying that Aegon is a fake savior - regardless whether he is Rhaegar's son or not -, I'm not saying Dany is the only savior. The dragon has three heads. There are three people at the core of this prophecy, and Aegon is not not one of them. But, of course, as this is a really big ensemble show there will be other crucial heroes in addition to the three dragon heads as well. And perhaps Aegon might even play a small part there. I'm not running around saying he must die early. The Westerlands are not spent, Aegon has a lousy power base even with Dorne, and Euron is the most dangerous - and likely most powerful - player in the entire book series. If you don't see that, I can't help you. We are entering the magical volumes of this fantasy series now. What Mel did for Stannis in ACoK will pale compared to what spells Euron (and others) will work now that magic is growing stronger by the day. Do you really think people will even learn or care to learn what happens there? Slaver's Bay is at the far end of the world. Mace Tyrell received a report about things there, and perhaps a handful of other lords ... but who will care about such stories now that winter has set in and pretty much anybody will be starving? Do you care about reports from the far end of the world?
  9. I think I specifically referenced the fighting pit thing regarding her being naive. She gives in to demands of the pit fighters who were formally enslaved who Hizdahr propped up to support his arguments. She doesn't know how to counter a former slave's demand to continue in his/her monstrous profession, even more so in light of the crucial role the pit fighters played in the fall of Meereen. Ditto with her inability to counter Xaro's story about the formerly rich guy who wants to be his slave now. She shies away from paternalism there, but people living in a fucked up society that is changing need to be told that they can't do depraved things in the new society, even if they want to or are fine with the consequences. One of the best examples would be a ten-year-old child laborer whose income helps to feed and clothe his ailing mother. We can't allow him to work for a living at that age, and we do have to change the circumstances that force him to work. The correct reply to the pit fighters would have been 'Do something else! Join my freedmen companies, become sellswords, do learn another trade. The blood sport times are over.' And to Xaro: 'You will release that man at once, and you will also free all the slaves you brought with you to Meereen. If you want to help your old friend then give him an annual allowance or buy him back his old house or hire him as a clerk or official, but I won't have your filthy slavery shit in my city!' Dany is not naive about her marriage to Hizdahr, of course. But she is also naive in her belief that she can trust Galazza Galare or any of the Meereenese elite to the point that she does. She actually think they might accept her eventually, and she also thinks they have a real interest in peace and co-existence ... when they simply don't. The only shared interest they have is to prevent a sacking of the city by the Yunkish allies ... because that might result in further loss of wealth and perhaps also in the establishment of direct Yunkish rule in Meereen. And that is then why the Green Grace makes the Hizdahr match and has him broker a peace with Yunkai and the others so they can prevent a direct conflict, undermine Daenerys from within, and eventually kill her off so that the Meereenese figurehead king at her side can take over. This only fails because the leader of the Yunkai'i, Yurkhaz zo Yunzak, who was in favor of peace, is trampled to death in Daznak's Pit and the second most influential Yunkish leader, Yezzan zo Qogaz, who has similar inclinations, mounts the Pale Mare. Then the hawks among the Yunkai'i gain traction, backed and urged on by the sellsword commander Bloodbeard who wants spoils. And all the Yunkish allies also know that the Volantenes are on the way, having declared war on Dany independently of their own coalition (but urged on by their envoy). The peace they created is not likely to survive the arrival of the Volantenes, anyway, so if there are spoils to be had, they better sack the city now, or else they would have to share. Nah, that is a monstrous practice, no matter the reasons or justification or history of the practice. That people raised/living in that culture/society defend or like it, doesn't change that simple fact. The pit fighters speak up not only for themselves but as pawns in Hizdahr's new enterprise. He, a former slaver who would like to restore slavery and seize power in Meereen by way of marrying Daenerys Targaryen, bought up all the fighting pits and would fill his pockets from the profit the fighting generates ... while the actual pit fighters would get a small salary (and perhaps some price money if they 'win') and risk their very lives in each fight. There is no defense or justification for that. And the ironic part of that is that some of the very pit fighters who served as Hizdahr's pawns earlier - I do remember Barsena, specifically - end up being brutally butchered in Daznak's Pit.
  10. Sorry, but the pit fighters were slaves, originally. They weren't put out of work, they were freed. Hizdahr then comes in as a rich capitalist who basically offers the now 'unemployed' pit fighters to hire them as 'workers' to continue their 'trade'. But their trade is monstrous savagery that has to be abolished along with slavery. It is like hiring a freed sex slave back as a paid prostitute. The trade is bad in general, not only if it involves slavery. Dany is too naive/stupid to see that, just as she has no good refutation ready to deal with Xaro's cunning defense/justification of slavery.
  11. Didn't mean you there, as I dimly recall that the essays in questions also draw such parallels. A real parallel to US history, as @SeanF and I did lay out in earlier discussions, can be the Civil War and Abe Lincoln to a point. Dany is a self-taught prodigy, too, married to a slaver (descendant), etc. who is radicalized over time. Not to mention that George himself echoes the pre-war abolitionist sentiments that America has to do away with slavery with 'fire and blood' in his own slaver states novel 'Fevre Dream'. And historically it is quite clear that the war wasn't enough. The American slavery elite lost their slaves but not their power and wealth, allowing the country to continue in racialized apartheid and racism for decades and, to a point, into the present. In ADwD, Dany is acting like a post-Lincoln president, trying to heal wounds and bridge gaps ... when the work is not completely done. But the silly interpretation of quite a few American readers is to take the viewpoint of the degenerate slavers in a kind of unconscious defence of their own slaver ancestors or slaver founding fathers. Daenerys is faulted for invading a 'foreign culture' when in fact the only issue they differ about is slavery. And the fucking slavers are put down by freed slaves. When the Unsullied butcher the Astapori the idea isn't that they do this as they would do any other thing. It is something they would have wanted to do for a very long time. Dany is just a catalyst there. We also see that in detail with the rekindled hope for freedom in the Volantene slaves. Dany fails when she compromises and listens to degenerates like Xaro, Galazza, and Hizdahr. They and their ways have to go. If they are spared or not otherwise neutralized effectively, you get the plot of ADwD. Changing a system in a rather small city state is not hard. Kill the crucial members of the elite, dispossess and exile the rest. Do away with slavery, and redistribute the obscene wealth of the slavers. It is not going to be paradise tomorrow, but it would be a decent start. Bigger states would be harder to change, of course. Dany and her regime are about to lose the freedmen when she disappears. The Unsullied refuse to fight for and defend Meereen under King Hizdahr. A tidbit of more slaver accommodating could have very well lead to serious friction in Dany's camp.
  12. It is kind of funny how American readers of ASoIaF actually parallel Dany's story in Slaver's Bay with the recent American wars. Those are non-parallels. Daenerys is no super power dominating the world, she is a young girl living in fantasy world. She speaks the same language as the Ghiscari and while there are some religious and cultural differences, they share a similar background (Dothraki culture is really different from Ghiscari and Valyrian culture). The one, the only issue of contention between them is slavery and the slave trade, especially as practiced by the degenerate Ghiscari.
  13. It isn't all that big a thing, just something that feels disjointed to me. There is serious lack of worldbuilding/backstory, which is strange since that's an adaptation spanning over 5 hours combined. From what I remember from the novel and the appendix it is that Duke Leto was both very popular in the Landsraad as well as kind of (unintentionally) mimicking the Sardaukar thing with the Atreides troops. Shaddam faces a serious succession problem due to the fact that his wife, unlike Jessica, gave him only daughters. There is certainly motivation for Shaddam to dislike or fear Leto as a rival ... but doing what he did there is clearly over the top since there were other, obvious alternatives (binding the Atreides to House Corrino via marriages - he could have even thrown two daughters on them, one for Leto, one for Paul), even more so as the movie turns Mohiam into the architect of the Harkonnen plan. Which is a clear diversion from the novel and also causes problem in the movie continuity as Mohiam did test Paul only after she decided to destroy House Atreides completely. What was the point of that when Paul was already a dead man/animal walking/crawling? In the book it is clear that she extends some help to Jessica and Paul via Margot precisely because she does not want the Atreides bloodline to die out. Not exactly, but the Harkonnen thing certainly makes him feel tainted for a while. Ditto with Alia. I think he gave him a cheap cop-out with the 'the great houses don't accept your ascension to the throne' - which was a ridiculous line, what do they want to do, risk the destruction of the spice or that the Fremen cut them off for good? - as it gives him and the Fremen a pretext for their 'holy war'. In the book there is literally none. Those madmen just run amok and he can do nothing to stop them. And the point of the crusade is to force the universe to worship the living god of the Fremen, not to seize or consolidate power. They also set up the corrupt clergy we see in DM.
  14. Sure, but it is random that he 1) does it the south, 2) does it exactly where Jessicalia sets up things for him. The groundwork scene kind of needs a 'do it there' scene, or else the groundwork scene feels as disjointed as it is now. At this point he doesn't see the future in great detail. Earlier scenes establish Paul's fear of becoming the tool/figurehead of the Fremen fanatics in the south, but not that he fears the water of life ceremony for similar reasons. It might kill him, sure, but knowing stuff doesn't turn him into a religious icon. Revealing what he knows and acting like an omniscient savior does. The sequence there is strangely reminiscent of the Lynch version where things are equally disjointed. The average viewer doesn't understand why this whole thing is necessary nor what it means. I mean, there are many Paul-Chani scenes, but they should have talked more about Kwisatz Haderach stuff. What does it mean for Paul to drink the stuff? We don't know, just as we don't know what it meant for Jessicalia. Some old woman says 'abomination' once, but what does that mean? Jessicalia becomes a kind of weirdo freak after the ceremony, but we don't really know why. Also, of course, playing up the Harkonnens as this big threat to the Fremen undermines their agency. They have been always in control of their planet, they are the best fighters in the known universe. Nobody ever colonized that planet nor did the Harkonnens ever gain the upper hand over the Fremen via 'superior technology'. The analogous book sequence to the destruction of Sietch Tabr is the much later Sardaukar raid of the place which leads to the death of Paul's first son by Chani and the capture of Alia. That works because there are only women and children there are the Sardaukar outnumber them.
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