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About PatrickStormborn

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    Slayer of Dany Haters

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    Warning: I stan for Daenerys Targaryen, the First of Her Name.

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  1. Clarification on Mirri Maz Durr

      We are also in Dany's head when she asks herself whether she knew what the price was. So we know that she at least considered Mirri's accusation.   Here's the discussion about the sacrifice:     She's deliberately not thinking about the consequences. The fact that she is willing to sacrifice her own life - which would include Rhaego - is proof enough that she accidentally sacrifices Rhaego.
  2. Clarification on Mirri Maz Durr

      I think the reason (1) and (3) seem contradictory is a problem with the wording. What I'm trying to say in (1) is that Rhaego's death is not a certainty, and MMD would have been foolish to treat it as such. It would be like someone assuming that they don't need to worry about Daenerys (and Viserys) once Aerys died.   But whether Dany would give birth in the tent is a bit more of a gamble. I would argue that MMD was just taking each step as it comes, basically. For all she knew, Dany could have been killed by Drogo's bloodriders before actually giving birth. So it doesn't really make sense to assume she had any kind of "master plan" for killing Rhaego.   Once Dany left the tent and had her labour induced, there was absolutely no chance of Rhaego surviving.
  3. Clarification on Mirri Maz Durr

      Yeah, the description of her labour is clearly not normal:     She falls to her knees, but that cannot possibly account for how suddenly she goes into labour and the clear suffering she experiences.     It quite clearly contradicts YOUR point that the horse was the price. Mirri Maz Duur quite openly states that the horse was NOT the price and was never going to be the price - it was a lie Dany told herself. She argues that Dany knew what the price was. Dany then asks herself is she did know the price. The suggestion is that Dany let herself believe the horse was the only price because that's what she wanted to believe.   It proves my point because it proves that the horse was not the price of the blood magic - in which case the sacrifice had to be Rhaego. If Rhaego only died because he was brought into the tent, why were Daenerys and Jorah not killed too?
  4. Clarification on Mirri Maz Durr

      Dany turned to the godswife. “You warned me that only death could pay for life. I thought you meant the horse.” “No,” Mirri Maz Duur said. “That was a lie you told yourself. You knew the price.”
  5. Clarification on Mirri Maz Durr

      Exactly. She tells Dany that the horse was never the sacrifice ("that was a lie you told yourself"), quite clearly indicating that it was her intention to sacrifice Rhaego from the beginning. But only Dany could make the sacrifice - it only worked because she told Mirri Maz Duur "do it", regardless of the price.
  6. Is Young Griff really Aegon?

      Yes ... but what do mummers use? Props and actors.
  7. Clarification on Mirri Maz Durr

      Mirri Maz Duur would surely have suspected that the Dothraki would turn their backs on Dany once Drogo fell, no? The Dothraki are notoriously superstitious and fear sorcery ... which MMD would know, considering that she was literally living amongst the Dothraki and was treated badly for being a maegi.   But my overall point is that MMD was gambling. She used Rhaego as the sacrifice to keep Drogo alive, but that was dependent on Jorah bringing Dany into the tent - and it only worked because Dany was willing to make whatever sacrifice she had to.     Well I'm making the argument that MMD deliberately sacrificed Rhaego because I believe that's clearly what we're shown in the text. If Rhaego had not died, what would have been the result of her magic on Drogo? Clearly Rhaego was a key factor as a sacrifice - after all, MMD states that "only death can pay for life", and then states that the horse was not enough. When she argues that Dany knew the price all along, we can infer that Mirri herself obviously knew what the price was.   My take on it is that MMD genuinely tried to help Drogo but he didn't take her advice; when she saw that he was dying and Dany was willing to make any sacrifice(*), she saw an opportunity to prevent the birth of the prophesised Dothraki saviour - and she took that opportunity, knowing that her fate was tied to Drogo's anyway.   (*) I think the most telling part of the chapter - for me, anyway - is when Dany asks if her life is needed to save Drogo, and Mirri tells her that it isn't. Not only does this quite obviously suggest that Rhaego is the sacrifice, it also ties neatly into how sacrifice is explored throughout the series.
  8. Clarification on Mirri Maz Durr

      Just because it's logical to assume that Rhaego would die after Drogo - and I agree, it was a logical conclusion - does not mean that Mirri Maz Duur thought Rhaego's death was a certainty. After all, he was the prophesised leader of the Dothraki. In that case, why not make it certain that he died? (Ironic, considering that she actually just made sure Daenerys would be the stallion that mounts the world.)   The discussion between MMD and Daenerys makes it clear that MMD knew that Rhaego was the sacrifice for Drogo's life, and she believes that Dany knew it too.     The sacrifice to keep Drogo alive was not Drogo's horse; nor was the sacrifice Dany or Jorah (if that was the case, they would have perished too). The price was clear, and the price was Rhaego.   Had Jorah not brought her into the tent, would Rhaego have lived? Possibly. But MMD surely knew that Daenerys would be brought into the tent, given that the Dothraki are completely superstitious. All Jorah did was deliver the sacrifice. Had he not brought Daenerys into the tent, the spell would not have been completed because the necessary sacrifice would not have been present.   Just to explain that with another example - imagine if Melisandre had tried to wake the stone dragon in ASoS and her spell required Edric. She starts the spell and then Edric is saved by Davos during the ceremony. He would still have been the intended sacrifice, but Melisandre would be unable to complete her spell without him.   For what it's worth, I tend to think Mirri Maz Duur initially tried to help Drogo. But once she knew he was dying and the chance presented itself, she made the decision to prevent Rhaego's birth.   And that's the whole point of ASOIAF, isn't it? Characters make choices. MMD chose to sacrifice Rhaego, Dany chose to risk using blood magic, and Jorah chose to bring Dany into the tent. If none of the characters are responsible, it would not be interesting or compelling as drama.
  9. Is at the moment Drogon big enough?

    Drogon's wingspan was 20 feet in Daznak's Pit, and he has grown even larger by the end of ADwD. By the time Daenerys reaches Westeros (which will take months), he will be larger still.   Will any of the dragons reach the size of Balerion the Black Dread? Of course not. But they will be large enough - and powerful enough - to cause some serious damage, otherwise why even introduce them into the series? Plus Dany will not just be invading with Drogon - she will have other forces, which Aegon lacked.     Presumably they will be smaller but will more or less do the same things they would have done had they been five years older. The same is true of the Stark children, I would imagine.  
  10. Angry Got Fan AMA with GRRM.

      Tyrion is quite obviously one of the heroes of the series, even if he has been a monster at some points (which is not subtle at all lol, but nice try).
  11. The Complete Winds of Winter Resource v. 2

    In all fairness, the Arianne chapter at least informed us that Storm's End had fallen to Aegon. I would have voted for the Arianne chapter too. It's only with hindsight (and the release of Arianne I as a gift chapter) that makes me wish Aeron's chapter had been read. But even then, I'm not sure how much it would/could have advanced the plot anyway.
  12. [Book Spoilers] EP510 Discussion

    He deliberately keeps the events of ADwD and TWoW ambiguous, though, as demonstrated when he doesn't reveal who Jon's parents are.
  13. [Book Spoilers] EP510 Discussion

    Ah ok, sorry. I definitely disagree with that assessment, though. Varys and Illyrio seem like they were created because of Aegon rather than the other way around.
  14. [Book Spoilers] EP510 Discussion

    Here's an article on the story. The relevant source is in the first paragraph on the second page of the letter. Exactly. I generally like how Martin handles character deaths - with realism, but without gratuitously killing protagonists. That is not suggested in the slightest... I don't know where you got that from. His legitimacy is not called into question and he is still killed by Khal Drogo. Aegon has been in play since he wrote A Clash of Kings, according to Elio (Ran). But there is plenty of foreshadowing even in AGoT. His role has always been extremely different from that of Viserys, in that he is supposed to complicate Dany's invasion.
  15. [Book Spoilers] EP510 Discussion

    I can't speak for whatever this show has become, but ASOIAF is certainly a character-driven story, even if the story is an epic tale. When GRRM originally pitched the series he even specified that five characters would not die - Jon Snow, Daenerys Targaryen, Tyrion Lannister, Bran Stark, and Arya Stark (presumably he meant that they will all survive until the endgame, not "they will all live until the series is complete"; and I would also assume that Sansa got promoted to this level at some point). That may very well have changed, but the structure of the series suggests that the survival of those characters is important. And I have to admit, I really, really, really despise this trend of worshipping TV shows that kill characters seemingly at random. It's not "OMG BRAVE" - it's usually a sign of poor storytelling, bad characterisation and moronic writing. I understand that it's a big reason so many people watch The Walking Dead, for example, but for me it was the reason I eventually quit the show. Particularly because not any character could actually die in TWD (Rick and Carl are pretty much safe for most of the show, for example, unless there are contractual disputes somewhere down the road). The same is true of GoT. Daenerys and Tyrion need to be kept alive until they at least reach Westeros, and then they presumably need to do something in Westeros to justify their journeys. Similarly, Jon Snow needs to remain in the story, otherwise the mystery of his parentage was unneccessary and poor storytelling. The only "perfect" character in this show is Saint Tyrion, who can do nothing wrong apparently.