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  1. Right. @Noble Lothar Frey ... As to what the "primitive wildlings" (Har!) might have thought about the claims in the pink letter, I think we can probably judge by Tormund's response.. "Might be all a skin o' lies." To elaborate a bit on the point I was making upthread - the free folk saw Mance burn, and saw Jon's arrows spare him the worst of that death. Of course @kissdbyfire is right - it was Mel and Stannis who spared Mance's life originally... but if Mance and any of the spearwives survive Winterfell, it will become obvious that Jon spared Mance again. In the interim, the wildlings have accepted Jon's rescue, hospitality and in the shieldhall, his position as battle leader. If Mance survives, they will see him as subordinate to Jon (as Tormund, Styr, Harma, etc. were to Mance).
  2. wow.... @snow is the man , I think most that get close enough to know Jon do like him, but they all must at least feel grateful to him and that's a good start. I think general liking will follow. However, we know that they don't have to like a man in order to accept him as leader. Some didn't like Mance, but followed him all the same. They will now see Jon as their leader even if Mance survives. Jon spared Mance twice and Mance has been sent on a mission by Jon, as other leaders had been sent on missions by Mance when he led. Jon saved them when Mance could not. As a skinchanger, Borroq acknowledges a certain fellowship with Jon ("Brother.") and I suspect will become a friend and ally in the next book.
  3. Even "born and raised in a brothel" could be a cover story ... I'm not sure he's LF's agent, but I feel pretty sure he's a noble bastard.
  4. If I'm not mistaken he said some time ago that when the announcement does come, it will appear on his blog first... ??
  5. @Lost Melnibonean Filled with Lemony goodness!
  6. Oh, I think Roose is aware. Here's Theon, from Reek III ... "As you wish." Bolton's pale eyes looked empty in the moonlight, as if there were no one behind them at all. "I mean you no harm, you know. I owe you much and more." "You do?" Some part of him was screaming, This is a trap, he is playing with you, the son is just the shadow of the father. Lord Ramsay played with his hopes all the time. ... and of course, a real person is more substantial than his shadow. Unless we're in Peter Pan territory, when has a person's shadow done anything the person didn't expect ? It's just the result of light cast on the person's actions. I think the way Roose raised Ramsay guaranteed Ramsay would become the person he is. Roose must know the full story of how Ramsay took WF from Theon, so he would suspect Ramsay of the killings before yellow Dick.. YD was probably tasked with trying to get Rams. to cool it.. Barbrey tells Theon, in regard to "Arya" crying.. "Roose is not pleased. Tell your bastard that." Theon is far too afraid of Rams. to attempt such a thing, but YD as Roose's man, and Ramsay's favourite, would pass on a message from Roose .. he doesn't have Theon's reasons to be afraid. I think Theon is psychic,to a degree ... certainly by the end of ADWD, or rather, psychically receptive. That's why he senses the ghosts, hears Bran, sees Bran's face. I agree that the torture has broken down what natural resistance he had... But I still reject Theon Durden. Where I think this will become more evident is if when he's taken before the tree in TWOW. In our world, when people become psychic channels, it's often as a result of a near death experience, or something else psychologically traumatic. Theon may have shown the first signs of receptiveness in ACOK, Theon V, when he had his true dream of the dead. The Ironborn may not be blocked, they just don't try to speak to their god any other way.
  7. Yes, and Theon always knows that he's someone other than Reek, even when we meet Reek in his worst condition in his first chapter. When the Walders ask who he is ,he's terrified of giving the wrong answer. "You have to remember your name" shows he knows "Reek" is a pretense that must be kept up for fear of horrific consequences. Was he molested by Euron? I don't know .. maybe just tormented (bad enough) like Egg was by Aerion.. ".. And Aerion . . . I remember, when I was little, he used to come into my bedchamber at night and put his knife between my legs. He had too many brothers, he'd say, maybe one night he'd make me his sister, then he could marry me. He threw my cat in the well too. He says he didn't, but he always lies." ... Egg to Dunk in The Hedge Knight As to the Walders.. Big yes,to this.. But that doesn't rule Big Walder out.. he was just kept indoors until it was time to make the grand entrance. He was either complicit with Roose or complicit with Ramsay.. (If Roose, removing the only one of "the Bastard's Boys" who wasn't Roose's man.. If Ramsay because maybe Roose had got to Little Walder, too) That prospect did not appear to please Lord Ramsay. "I laid waste to Winterfell, or had you forgotten?" "No, but it appears you have … the ironmen laid waste to Winterfell, and butchered all its people. Theon Turncloak."...Reek III Ramsay is ferocious, I will grant you, but he swings that sword like a butcher hacking meat." ...Reek III "My brother Merrett's son." Hosteen Frey lowered the body to the floor before the dais. "Butchered like a hog and shoved beneath a snowbank. A boy." ... Theon I We're often in agreement, but not in this. I think Theon was right when he thought, about the murders ... It all seemed so familiar, like a mummer show that he had seen before. Only the mummers had changed. Roose Bolton was playing the part that Theon had played the last time round, and the dead men were playing the parts of Aggar, Gynir Rednose, and Gelmarr the Grim. Reek was there too, he remembered, but he was a different Reek, a Reek with bloody hands and lies dripping from his lips, sweet as honey. Reek, Reek, it rhymes with sneak. ... A Ghost in Winterfell In other words, Ramsay is the killer. Yellow Dick's end was particularly vicious because Ramsay has cottoned to the fact that his men are Roose's.(See the arguement on the dais.) The spearwives are willing to let Theon suspect them, if it helps to get them what they want, but being suspected of killing a child is a step too far. I hope this wasn't too big a derailment.
  8. ... I guess that would be Efficiency Expert Daario... or Political Strategist Daario?
  9. I don't think we can agree on this point ... Daario is quick, by his own claim and Barristan's thoughts (Yes, that was by comparison to himself, but then, he was pretty quick in the basilisk episode.)..Daario will later recommend a surprise attack to Dany.. Why would he take on the two of them together, if he didn't have to? Unless they were inseparable in the interim, they could have been dealt with singly. We don't even know how they were killed, for that matter. We only know their heads were taken to Dany to prove they were dead. ..He could have snuck up behind them and snapped their necks, commando-style .. or any number of other ways. (Hell, maybe botanist Daario could have poisoned them..) Dany actually says nothing about being dirty ... something can be clean and still have sweat stains. I don't think he changed his clothes..I think that's something she would have remarked. Either way, why should he have salt stained boots? I think (in light of the other Oberyn clues) that they refer to the salty Dornish and ancestral ties to Nymeria. (Just a personal experience note: I had a friend who dealt in vintage fabrics and clothing. Some items could look pristine from 10,or even 5 ft. away, but up close, you could see the wear and tear along the seams and finished edges, and some sweat stains would not come out, no matter how often they'd been cleaned.)
  10. Right, second meeting, but she's only just met him was my meaning... and it's only 2 hours later. At their first meeting she had the three captains to pay attention to and Daario wasn't doing the talking. I take away that she now has a chance to get a closer look, and the shabbiness becomes evident. For me, " hard wear" is something that happens over time, not just in a recent scuffle.(No rips or tears, or blood)...and his clothes "had seen hard wear" says it was in the past so I don't know if a 2 hr. difference does it. The chipped enamel could definitely have happened in a scuffle, and maybe the sweat stained lace, although the lace was the colour of butter, so it could take repeatedly getting sweaty for noticeable stains to develop. As I said upthread, I'm doubtful that there was much of a scuffle, or Daario would have expected the Yunkai'i sentries to be more troublesome on his return. I think he probably simply surprised them and not necessarily together. But anyway, symbolism doesn't have to reflect what's going on in the present. Hey, we could both be right. That's part of why I like it..
  11. A while ago, I said.. (Edit:adding tag for @Lady Blizzardborn) With this in mind, on the Martell side, Daario's bloodline would trace all the way back to Nymeria, and a union with Dany would also bring together bloodlines of both sides of the Rhoynish / Valerian conflict. I hadn't tried to make much of the shabbiness of Daario's clothes when Dany first meets him , simply because nothing came to mind - beyond the fact that Daario was as unafraid of getting dirty, as of getting bloody. But the description can also be symbolic after all... His garb, rich as it was, had seen hard wear; salt stains patterned his boots, the enamel of his nails was chipped, his lace was soiled by sweat, and she could see where the end of his cloak was fraying. ... ASoS Dany IV Rich garb stands for nobility .. but it had seen hard wear. (think of the hardships of Nymeria's voyage) Lace soiled by sweat- the sojourns in hot climates... salt stained boots- the sea voyage again.. There is another reading (leading to the same conclusion) to be made up to this point... When Tyrion meets Oberyn he thinks .. Only a few streaks of silver marred the lustrous black hair that receded from his brow in a widow's peak as sharply pointed as his nose. A salty Dornishman for certain .. ASoS, Tyrion V And from the WoIaF... the salty Dornishmen of the coasts, dark-haired and lithe and oliveskinned, have the queerest customs and the most Rhoynish blood. (When Princess Nymeria came ashore in Dorne, most of her Rhoynar preferred to remain close to the sea that had been their home for so long, even after Nymeria burned their ships.) Thus the salt stained boots.. lace - hot climate - Dorne (as well as present surroundings)..hard wear- life as a sellsword ain't easy ... That leaves us with the chipped nail enamel and the frayed edge of his cloak.. which in all cases could say that his disguise is getting harder to maintain,or could predict that it will be chipped away at, begin to unravel. On a side note , this brings up the harmonies with Garin again, Garin of the orphans of the Greenblood, named for Garin the Great, he's loose-limbed ... Salty Dornishmen are lithe ... Daario is lithe. ..And there's another almost similarity shared by Oberyn, Daario and Garin. Though described differently, they all have distinctive noses.. Oberyn - sharply pointed, Daario - great curving nose, Garin - long-nosed .
  12. ..Of course, since I've been looking at Daario from the paternal angle (Oberyn), I think Naharis is his Blackfyre mother's surname.. I'm totally sold on his Blackfyre maternal line. But about the worn clothes.. I agree with the bold, above, and secondarily, had toyed with the idea that he's been cut off from his source of wealth, but discarded that, because, well, he can always plunder.. Because of talking about bloodlines on my thread ... I suddenly see another secondary interpretation for that description, which I'll post over there,and share here only if you don't think it would be a distraction.
  13. @St Daga I gave you a wink and a grin because I've done the same myself ,now and then... GRRRRR! When I first wondered about the Stormcrows, I came away feeling there wasn't enough there to make a really firm connection .. a possibility, but nothing solid. So, I went back to obsessing about the Starks and the north. Some time later on a re-read (thinking I really should pay more attention to Dany's storyline), I became more convinced. I realised that Daario's fury wasn't making sense to me..Why should he be more upset over Quentyn than over Hizdahr, and why should he still want to go after the other prisoners, after the marriage? (More or less the same questions @Lady Blizzardborn raised upthread). When I read ... "Martell was dancing in a viper's nest and he did not even see the snakes." and realised that GRRM made an equation in Barristan's conversation with Quentyn & co, that is: Quentyn = Oberyn and Quentyn = Daario (therefore, Daario = Oberyn) ..and that the equation, or a similar one, was repeated in his confrontation with Hizdahr : Quentyn = Daario and Quentyn = all Dornish (= poisoners), therefore Daario = Dornish (Barristan erases poisoner from the equation) ... and (cherry on top) Hizzy claims, the Dornish worship snakes - Wrong.. but the Dornish worship the Red Viper (a snake who was a poisoner) ... I just laughed out loud. That made me curious as to symbolism might be present, and whether Oberyn was ever referred to as "the snake" .. and I found the steady drip, drip, drip of .. "a snake", "the snake", .. mostly coming from Tyrion (who is no doubt about to meet Daario).. and "all Dornish are snakes" coming from Cersei, which resonates with Hizzy's.. "..They're all poisoners, these Dornish. Reznak says they worship snakes." Going back to Daario's unabated fury, I'm even now realising that when Arch and Gerris tell Barristan about the Tattered Prince's agreement with Quentyn in The Queen's Hand, and Barristan can easily guess the price ... "Pentos," said Ser Barristan. "He promised him Pentos. Say it. No words of yours can help or harm Prince Quentyn now." "Aye," said Ser Archibald unhappily. "It was Pentos. They made marks on a paper, the two of them." ... there's a very good chance that Daario could have figured it out, too. Why would Tatters invest so many of his own men in Quentyn's cause? .. Tatters' story is widely known. Of course he wants Pentos. .. For Daario, paying this price would be yet another delay, another distraction from his purpose and Dany's ultimate goal. More frustration for Daario.. If he truly wants to kill the prisoners, it could be to prevent Tatters' offer from reaching Dany. I think he figures he can pry Dany away from Hizzy, eventually..and Quentyn ? If I'm right, they're cousins, and their fathers were very close .. if Doran's purpose is to wed Dany to Dorne, Daario, as Oberyn's son, could still stand in for Quentyn. After all, as Barristan points out in The Discarded Knight.. Like all good queens she put her people first—else she would never have wed Hizdahr zo Loraq—but the girl in her still yearned for poetry, passion, and laughter. She wants fire, and Dorne sent her mud. .. Well, but if the fire is equal to the mud (still binding her to House Martell), why not let her have the fire? Doran has already shown that he's willing to make substitute arrangements. Why should Daario alienate Doran by killing Quentyn? I don't think we know about marriages that I can recall, and my World book is still not unpacked after my move, but because we see a Qorgyle with Oberyn, it's more likely Arianne is correct (generally speaking).. Anyway, here's my Mance/Qorgyle thoughts, if you like..
  14. I won't say that this is impossible ... Of course, the main point of the saddles, it seems to me, is to prevent falling off.. though protection from heat would be a nice side benefit. I guess one is always influenced by where one starts from and for me that was considering the motivations of the GG and Hizdahr. Dany thinks she needs the marriage for peace and tells Hizzy.. "To be my king and consort, you need only bring me peace. .." and assumes that is their main concern as well. She doesn't believe she can have children but doesn't mention it. Hizzy and the GG bring children into it from the get go.. Dany: ... I need a man with ships and swords. You offer me ancestors." "We are an old people. Ancestors are important to us. Wed Hizdahr zo Loraq and make a son with him, a son whose father is the harpy, whose mother is the dragon. In him the prophecies shall be fulfilled, and your enemies will melt away like snow." ..<snip>.. Dany knew how it went with prophecies. They were made of words, and words were wind. There would be no son for Loraq, no heir to unite dragon and harpy. When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, when the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. Only then would her womb quicken once again … ... Dany IV I have gold and friends and influence, and the blood of Old Ghis flows in my veins. Though I have never wed, I have two natural children, a boy and a girl, so I can give you heirs. I can reconcile the city to your rule and put an end to this nightly slaughter in the streets."...Dany IV "The pearls symbolize fertility. The more pearls Your Worship wears, the more healthy children she will bear." "Why would I want a hundred children?" Dany turned to the Green Grace. "If we should wed by Westerosi rites …" "The gods of Ghis would deem it no true union." Galazza Galare's face was hidden behind a veil of green silk. Only her eyes showed, green and wise and sad. "In the eyes of the city you would be the noble Hizdahr's concubine, not his lawful wedded wife. Your children would be bastards. ... Dany VI They have a use for Dany until they have an heir or two or three, then they'd be perfectly happy (if not eager) to dispense with her.. I think the subject of Hizzy's tapestries shed a little light.. On the walls were priceless tapestries, ancient and much faded, depicting the glory of the Old Empire of Ghis. The largest of them showed the last survivors of a defeated Valyrian army passing beneath the yoke and being chained. ...The Kingbreaker Since I think they were responsible for the poison, then it can't have been intended to kill (Btw..I utterly reject Skahaz).. if she died now Hizdahr's elevation to King might not last, as other Great Master families consider themselves equally worthy. Tenuous, but very interesting ... Mance was supposed to have been found with a group of raiders, so he wasn't a babe in arms when the NW took him in ...