StannisandDaeny

7. It was good but I took some points away for what they did (or rather, are still doing) to Stannis.

I thought it was really good, 9/10. A few scenes lasted a little too long for my liking (Theon, Shae, Sansa), but this was made up for with the awesomeness of Tywin, Qyburn!, Jaime and Locke, all of which are awesome. When Tywin walked into that hall I was literally cheering him on, been waiting for him to put Joff in his place so long, haha. The scene on the boat with Mel and Gendry was a nice addition too, as well as Osha's scene. Tormund was finally Tormund, that's another plus. Bonus points for the locations and the costumes which were absolutely gorgeous, and the cool bear action at the end.

Gave it a 7. Some solid dialogue, got quite a few laughs, and the first scene with Sam and Gilly was intense, I was just expecting to see an Other jump out at the screen at any moment. Sometimes the show needs to slow down, you know, remember how slow the books sometimes are? That said, it lacked some action. The wall is 700 feet high... yeah, when GRRM himself has said he probably made it too high, perhaps the show should make it a little bit lower too. The Blackfish is too much of an aggressive brute imo. Seriously he's like a thug or a bouncer, like the big guy guarding a mafia boss, not a lord in service. Edmure on the other hand is great, and I'm glad Robb admits it's not fair, because it wasn't. Oh and I wanted a longer dinner scene... Go Roose! The Freys looked sufficiently dumb and stupid. Tyrion / Sansa / Shae and Loras / Sansa were funnily awkward. Charles Dance is still killing it. Good to see Tywin owning that **** (I mean the character!). It's weird that LF is just sitting next to the throne, staring at it, and being so transparent. Seriously if he really did that he'd be dead. And to people who are happy for what happened to Ros: bah. Just bah.

It reminded me mostly of Alien IV...

I'm glad you think so, because Davos was sent there to recover, not to rot! He wouldn't have fallen if not for the incest. The incest was what started the rippling effect. That's easy to see. As easy as it was to see for Cersei and Jaime their relationship could, and would end up having serious implications.

Cersei already had a relationship with Jaime before the marriage which neither of them would have given up, and definitely not Jaime, you know that as well as I do. Cersei could've had just one of his kids, just one, and it would've been enough to stop this trainwreck from happening. Robert seems like the guy who would take Ned's (who would've been alive) advice seriously when it concerns the well-being of the North, he definitely likes going to war, and at any rate, the realm would have been more prepared for the others. Neither Tommen nor Myrcella seem 'fucked up'.

Not just in the show, and not just in this episode my friend ;)

I gave it a 9. Hardly anything to dislike, just all-round excellent. In general, I liked how things slowed down a little to get some character development done. The duel between the Hound and Beric Dondarrion. Show that scene to the guy who directed the Jaime / Brienne fight. That's how you do a swordfight. Beric looked awesome, elegant and badass like I imagined him, the fire was a constant factor, even Maisie was present throughout it, they were really evenly-matched, it was easy to feel for the Hound because he got burned yet again... Best fight in the show so far. Beric: "(He will die.) But not today." -> this is the kind of cleverness from the books I also want to see in the show, loved it. "The Lord of Light isn't done with him yet" -> this is nice foreshadowing to the role we expect Sandor Clegane to take, as a warrior of the Faith against his undead brother. Jon again had that wimpy look on his face that just makes me angry. It got better, though his aggression is kind of out of character because it was blatantly obvious he was lying to them and still loyal to the NW. Tormund sucks. I'm sorry, he just does. How many cheesy lines can this sad brute produce? Ygritte steals Jon's sword like it's nothing, come on guys! At the moment Jon and Ygritte engage in sexy times, I believe their relationship hasn't been developed well enough to really consider it something to be happy about. The dialogue following it and the way the scene was handled fixed this for me though. They actually looked like a loving pair, and they know what's outside the cave will tear them apart, which makes a very, very nice metaphor for wanting to stay, the innocence of a loving couple against the cruel reality of the world... Roose's psychological torture of Jaime was so in-character and downright awesome, the guy who is playing him is too. Locke has something bad coming for him... I'm a huge fan of Qyburn (the character) so I had my *squee* moment when he appeared too, more, more! I'm happy with the way Qyburn is portrayed - it's like you can't decide whether he's fatherly or creepy. It would've been nice if they could've dropped a line about how he became Roose's maester after they'd rescued him to avoid the bloodied up guy somehow being a medic without too much explanation (it makes him look like a plot device) but then again the foreshadowing of his creepy experiments and the crazy look in his eyes as he's cutting into Jaime's flesh was a nice touch. Did I mention Jaime's wrist looked absolutely disgusting, even by GoT standards? I don't mind Loras looking like an idiot. He killed 2-3 men, fellow brothers in arms, because he was angry Renly got killed, and never once showed remorse for them. He is pretty much an idiot. If anything it makes Petyr (who is far more important than Loras) look smarter, which was kind of necessary. The Queen of Thorns discussing provisions was enjoyable. This is, after all, an important factor to the story and GRRM himself has said he thinks the logistics are all too often forgotten in fantasy. Maisie's goodbye scene with Gendry was a real tearjerker. Props to Joe Dempsie for making him into such a cool character. He already kinda was, but this Gendry has a little more depth and actual thoughts about what's happening to him and where he's going. One thing I'll remark is that Karstark being caught immediately kinda takes away the tension and the shock the murdering of the Lannister boys (which really brutal very well portrayed) ought to have on someone - you immediately see Karstark is caught and justice will be done. I don't think the Blackfish would punch a helpless man... but it's only a detail. Still, this coupled with his reaction to Edmure makes him look more like a thug in service to Robb than anything else. 'Those boys did?' Robb had a nice analogy here with the line Talisa gave him when they first met. It's really well done because showing the effect she has on him symbolizes the larger effect his marriage with her has to his men. 'Let him watch' was also a great inclusion from the book. Karstark was awesome as always, applause for Jon Stahl. Robb's descent into not villainy, but emotional instability reminds me a little of Arthas, the way it's portrayed. Which is oddly appropriate. Arthas, too, brought about the ruin of everything he loved by trying to protect it... I still think Beric is awesome. They had to establish why the rest of the men weren't surprised he came back to life, so the scene suits me just fine. 'Every time I come back to life, I lose something...' -> this is an important line, because it shows some of GRRM's psychology, too (he said that when characters return from the dead, they're often somewhat weaker characters than before). I've given my thoughts on Stannis' scenes in another topic, suffice it to say I enjoyed the scenes, but I fear they won't do much for other people's opinions on him. Not that it matters. The relationship with his family is definitely expanded upon and more interesting, though. Oh and I can't stress enough that 'Davos is not rotting!' NCW gets a 10/10 for performance on this episode, I could feel his pain, and I don't really tend to empathize with Jaime all that much. How he was holding his arm up was strangely funny to me, I imagined all he was needed was a hook and a hat and he could've gone 'yarr!' and started talking like a pirate. Good to see Davos again. Liam Cunningham is my favourite guy on the show, he's just such a good and funny Irish guy, and a fan, no less. Going from Aegon the Conqueror to Daenerys was a smart cut. I could listen to Ser Jorah and Barristan talking all day long. The mixture of respect, tension and apprehension is great. I thought it was kind of weird that Karstark would have half the army. That would make him more powerful than the Starks and the Riverlords combined. Yeah I get that the situation has to seem very dire to Robb, but come on, who's going to buy that? Another clever thing was how you could see the silhouettes of the guards in the Cersei - Littlefinger scene. About Littlefinger though, he has a weird and forced way of speaking, but it never really bothered me until his scene with Sansa where he just sounded many higher degrees of weird. Come on man, you can do better than that! And of course, we get Charles Dance at the end. As he did in Season 2, he appears for a few minutes at the end of the episode and simply owns everything. He almost makes you wanna wish Tywin would stick around a while longer. All in all, I enjoyed the slower pace and time for exposition and character development in this episode.

He is an awesome character and I like reading about him, I'll give him that, but yeah, he's still an ass. If he had found Arya after Nymeria had bitten Joffrey, he probably would've killed her, too. He's still fighting for the wrong side and still breaking his vows, the way I see it, he's changed how he feels about what he's doing rather than actually changed what he's doing (I'll fling this child from a trebuchet!) because he can't let go of how others see (and fear) him despite the fact he's changed inside (which is another interesting aspect of his character, btw). He's trying, but if he really wants to redeem himself he should step up and admit his incestuous relationship with his sister, that would do it. LOL!

It was, but even without the finish (if that were even possible) it would've still been a solid 9 in my book because it kept me entertained long before we reached that point, and you can't discard parts of the episode, or you'd have to do that here, too. People wouldn't be speaking praise about the entire episode or give a 10 just for 'Dracarys.' Let's make this easy though: they were both terrific.

Maybe some of them are, but the guy we saw up close was a guy in a suit with some CGI added to make him look more real. Either way, they're probably not cheap. One more thing I wanted to say was that I like how the episode's title was made in honour of Jeor Mormont while it could've been called 'Dracarys' or so many other things. He was one of my favourite characters on book as well as show. I also forgot to mention Iwan Rheon is great as Ramsay - the madness in his face when he reveals he's betrayed Theon was spot on. I don't entirely get how Theon didn't see they were travelling in the wrong direction, but oh well. But please, no more torture scenes! Oh well, who am I talking to, Theon still has to get castrated... oh boy :/ The only nitpick I have is Brienne's 'You sound like a bloody woman!' It would be okay for anyone but her to say this, she, who respected Catelyn's strength and is possibly the walking embodiment of feminism on the show... at least, she should be.

I'm strangely enticed by the idea of watching Sam slash through a horde of them with nothing but a small dragonglass knife, screaming like a madman and covered in blood, rather than just killing one... How they will do it, well my guess would be that he kills the Other and then finds himself surrounded by wights just after he killed it to ruin the moment, and then Coldhands shows up and still manages to save the day. Eh, he might get some help from Ed and Grenn too because they have to live but I didn't see them coming with him just yet.

Not when they have a boss like Littlefinger, who will give them to crazy men who want to mutilate them if they "don't make him money." Plus, he was a virgin for christ's sake... It was stupid. But it wasn't enough to take anything away from this episode because here it did give a lead-in towards Varys remarking Ros' talents as a spy (the repeat of his 'prodigies' quote).

I had to give it a 10, there's nothing really substantial for me to complain about. It's the best episode we've had in a while, perhaps the best episode so far? Together with the launch of Season 2 of Continuum, this makes me a happy man (I know this makes me sound like a TV junkie, these are the only shows I watch though :P). No pointless brothel scenes, no "here's Tyrion and Bronnmance just because we want to show him", no moping Jon Snow, great action, drama, and I still got a fair share of laughs. This episode delivered the kind of dark and sarcastic humour (Eddisson Tollet!) you expect from the show rather than the forced teenage boy humour from last episode. The scheming was there, and I think it was done in a way people could figure out what's going on. It really helps the episode to allow their best actors to shine. Charles Dance was amazing ("You're not as smart as you think you are!"), Jack Gleeson is just hilariously good at depicting Joffrey as the little shit he is ("here's some tales about death and destruction, love me! Let's be a beautiful sociopathic couple!" and of course his waving like a douche), Dianna Rigg had some great lines about how ridiculous the Tyrell sigil and words is, something I've been saying for years!, Rory McCann as the flawless Hound who is still able to intimidate everyone even when he's in ropes, and Conlyth deserves awards, too... Whoever played the guy who killed Craster did a great job, as well as Rast. These are small roles, but oh so important, and for young actors they did really well holding their own among legends like James Cosmo and Robert Pugh. Sansa had a very nice scene. Sophie Turner really captured the mixture of happiness and despair Sansa also felt in the books when the offer was made to go to Highgarden and Nathalie Dormer stills plays Margaery as just fake and clever enough for me to still see through her as I did in the books. A hint that Varys can actually be a cruel man too is a nice touch. And it makes sense he'd get his revenge given the power he has. A lot of the details were also right. The second of bromance between Ser Jorah and Ser Barristan, while perhaps out of place, was a nice touch which in one shot reminds us of their earlier discussions and how Daenerys has found a solution for both. The Unsullied are awesome. The beating of the spears seemed like a nod towards the Uruk Hai in the Two Towers, I'm probably not the only one who was reminded of that. Here's to hoping every episode from now on can hold up this standard. Finally, I don't get how people can still be criticizing Emilia Clarke. That girl is badass, her acting during that ending scene gave me goosebumps. PS RIP Jeor Mormont, James Cosmo, it was good to have you on the show, you will be missed :( I would've preferred him to snap Rast's neck and go out like a badass, alas, it was not to be.

Another reason I only gave it a 7 was the Talisa (kill her with fire!) scene where she's making sexual innuendos you'd expect from a 7 year old.

7. Would've been more if not for the pointless brothel scene(s) 'cos I did like a fair bit of scenes. The flow was also kind of all over the place.

Would have given a 6, but the scene with Olenna Tyrell bumps it up to a 7. We didn't see Danaerys, Littlefinger, Tywin or Davos, so I'm bound to be rather partial. + * Olenna Tyrell was marvelous. See what happens when you keep many lines from the book? * Karstark - Robb was fun. * Joffrey - Margaery was good. * Arya scenes were nice enough. * It was good to see Rast again. * Mance was good. * Some hilarious things like Olenna Tyrell's lines, Dolorous Edd's dourness or Jaime's remark about Renly. * I like the emphasis on the fact Renly is a traitor and was unfit to rule in both the Olenna and Joffrey - Margaery scene. (* Generally good explanation of Warging and Green Dreams, at least, I think) - * I really don't like Talisa. No idea what that scene with Cat was all about, either. * Tyrion - Shae really bothers me, as it has for a long time. Shae is just a stupid whore, why do people insist on making her so important? * The fight between Brienne and Jaime was kinda lackluster. * The scene with the Night's Watch doesn't capture any of the horror of the book scene, it's just a bunch of guys casually walking through the snow. Some frozen bodies littering the road would have been nice. * Torture scenes with Theon are unnecessary imo. They're horrible to watch and add only that: he's being tortured. Then there's the difficulty you're in danger of revealing the Boltons as scumbags too early. * The Reeds' introduction was just silly. In short I'd summarize this episode as 'some character introductions and lots of people talking for no reason and the writers getting lost in their own plot arcs.'

Infidels! Give them to the Drowned God!

9/10, this episode made me happy. I had a lot of fear for it and was very much relieved. The first episode is always a challenge, but they've managed to squeeze a lot in there that had to be done that looked really great. I don't mind them leaving out the Wight attack on the Fist (for those complaining, it was only a flashback in the books, too). I've seen enough zombie films. As with the Aliens films, 1 Alien is scarier than a whole lot of Aliens, and in the same way 1 Wight is scarier than an army of Wights. James Cosmo was impressive as the Old Bear as always. I must've missed something but I was confused by Ghost's arrival at the Night's Watch. Since it looked like Sam had only just come running back from the initial attack Jeor's question on whether he sent the ravens didn't make much sense to me though, I feel like maybe there's a catch I missed. The Giant looked grand and realistic. Mance was excellently cast (I love that guy, he's both sympathetic and tough at the same time which is what you want in Mace), Tormund not really, he looks, sounds and appears terrible and stereotypical, acting more like Styr than book-Tormund. We finally saw the real Jon snow as he's supposed to be for a couple of seconds when he manages to convince Mance, I hope Jon carries this through and becomes the badass he's meant to be. While I liked her better initially Ygritte is now starting to irritate me in the show just as she did in the books... For once, a nude chick (the one with Bronn) is actually sexy. The sex / nude scenes in both books and show so far have never done much for me, I always found them rather cringe-worthy and gratuitous. We're getting into Bronn's sellsword philosophy more clearly and that's interesting. I can't for the life of me remember what Tyrion and Cersei talked about in their scene though. There were a few cheesy lines, Ser Meryn's 'loses the hand' line was pretty much copied from Craster, and kind of already used by Daeny once. Come on people, be more creative. Ros warning Shae about Littlefinger is kinda interesting, Sansa trying to play a game with Shae is funny and reminds me of the first season with Tyrion, it's also a nice metaphor for Sansa having more hope. Joffrey is clearly still a little shit, I hope they don't make the Tyrells too sympathetic... Everyone including the audience forgets that it's their army that was starving the city first. Stannis looks really handsome with his beard :cool4: It was good to see Salladhor Saan again, the portrayal makes me wish he was a more recurring character. I literally went 'OMG IT's QYBURN. *SQUEE*'. Really looking forward to seeing this guy's progression with the crowd from 'oh that poor man' to 'what'...?' The dragons are impressive. Tywin is an ass. While I liked the show's take on Tywin (it made him more interesting) I'm glad they finally showed what an ass he is and of course Charles Dance pulls it off brilliantly. I don't really like Tyrion (I have sympathy for him but I believe people forget his flaws too often) but I really felt for him the way Peter Dinklage played him, you could clearly see the sadness and how difficult it was for Tyrion to keep up his usual swagger. The Unsullied look great and the slaver was excellent. I remember loving his interaction with Missandei and how she translated the foul things he spewed at Dany, it's one of my favourite parts in the books, and they did get that across slightly. I'm also really glad to see Barristan again. He was my favourite 'second tier' character in Season 1 and one of the best-cast people looks-wise. Ian McElhinney brings this classy feel to the show, you can tell he's an actor of a past generation, but he adapts while still bringing his classy qualities to the show in a really great way.

Seems like an excellent choice looks-wise, can't say anything about the rest (I remember I've seen her somewhere, but not how good she was).

Catelyn isn't that weak imo, anyone paying attention will have noticed that every time Robb ignored her advice (and he did so every time) it turned for the worse, lol. I also think her opposing the King rather than being a bitch and saying Eddard should do as his King commands (defying the King's authority is more dangerous) like she did in the books was a twist that made her stronger. And then her scene where she stands up to Karstark, gotta love that, harharhar. Robb is probably being made an asshole of to goad people into a soft landing when he dies. After all to most viewers it will seem he did nothing with his army either after his victory over Stefford Lannister.

He's not worthy of the Other's attention, if he's going to sit there the dead will eventually devour him. What bothers me most (apart from the Frosty Uruk-Hai appearance and Nazgul-scream they gave him) is that Sam is actually going to get out of a situation even Bronn wouldn't survive, what with the tons of dead people and mounted Others and all.

He'll be there... But alive and as another person than Drogo, or as Drogo in the afterlife?

That's exactly my point. That's the question an attentive viewer would be asking. Now the characters just assume they'll have to go to the Wall as Luwin suggests instead of wondering why he says they're still in danger and can't for instance go to one of their closer allies.

It's not really my theory, but a well-fleshed out theory from someone else on this board which I've read. Melisandre's speech about Stannis betraying anyone at all was so out of character for him that I wrote it off as nonsense at first but when you put the pieces together... what else could she mean? As long as he's human Stannis is in no real position to betray anyone because he needs all the support he can get. He'll probably either fall in battle against the Others or someone else, be resurrected as a more powerful sort of Wight through the power of his blood (he is after all the King and blood magic is the most powerful magic there is, especially when using King's blood...) or get wounded, go insane because of the wound and run over to the Others somehow as a last resort of some kind. *sigh* Personally I'd be gutted over this (Stannis deserves a genuinely good ending if only for all the stuff poor ol' Davos has been through for his sake to start with) but I see no real other way out, especially because Daeny dying behind the Wall (presumably fighting Stannis, ack, they should join forces instead!) has also been implied in this episode, and who would she be fighting beyond the Wall... you guessed it. Then there's George saying the ending will be 'bittersweet' and 'victory will come at a price'... well... Can't get much clearer than that.