Melifeather

This is what this forum is for...to present a theory and see if it can hold up to scrutiny. An OP's biggest hope is that their theory generates allot of discussion as this one has. My congratulations to @Frey family reunion for his success! We're not trying to tear FFR down, but to engage in a fruitful debate which hopefully leads to additional insight and understanding.

This. Exactly this. With Tyrion dead Sansa is not going anywhere. Period. She'd still be a useful commodity to hold onto until another advantageous match was brokered. And Sansa would still have to put up with Joffrey's tortures.

I mixed it with my hands because that’s how I usually make biscuits. It’s the best way to avoid over-mixing. I think this recipe is shortbread and would be good with a layer of finely chopped almonds and drizzled with chocolate.

I noticed there is no leavening. Did you add baking soda or baking powder?

That makes sense, but where did you read that little tidbit? Winds, by all accounts, is massive in size and probably enough words for two books, but the words "a dream of spring" could just as easily be part of the final sentence if all of the major mysteries have been revealed in Winds.

What kind of hint are you understanding here? Dontos said the hairnet represented justice and vengeance for her father. Joffrey beheaded her father not Tyrion. If you were Sansa and you understood that you had the power to take the life of Joffrey, who tortured you and beheaded your father, or Tyrion simply because he's ugly and you were forced to marry him? I can't believe anyone would seriously consider Tyrion over Joffrey! What do you think Sansa understood when Ser Dontos told her the hairnet represented "home"? Where did she think Dontos was taking her when she slipped away from the wedding feast? Doesn't it make sense that she assumed he would help her get home to Winterfell? Sansa repeats the note as if a mantra, "come to the godswood if you want to go home". At that time she believed Arya was safe back at Winterfell, dancing and sewing, and playing with Bran and Rickon. I think it's quite clear that Sansa wished to go home to Winterfell and that King Joffrey had the power to keep her in Kings Landing. In Storm she tells Ser Dontos that he needn't help her escape any longer, because she's going to marry Willas Tyrell. Sansa was willing to accept a marriage to Willas rather than go home to Winterfell, because he offered her a life miles away from JOFFREY! Dontos tells her to beware of the Tyrells as they only want power over Winterfell through her. Dontos informs Littlefinger of the Tyrell plot and Littlefinger makes sure Tywin hears of it and that is when the plan to marry her to Tyrion is formed. Even after Sansa is married to Tyrion, Joffrey tells her that she will be his mistress: Until that moment, Sansa believed Tyrion would protect her from Joffrey. She was already married to Tyrion at that point, but this dance with Joffrey shook her. Now she understood that being married to Tyrion kept her too close to Joffrey. Sansa was terrified of Joffrey. She wasn't afraid of Tyrion. Killing Tyrion would end her marriage, but it wouldn't keep her safe from Joffrey.

@Frey family reunion will you address "when" Sansa got the idea to use the hairnet on Tyrion? All she knew prior to the wedding feast was that Ser Dontos was bringing her a magic hairnet that would take her home. You have to remember that Ser Dontos is the only person she talked to beforehand and didn't know he was connected to Littlefinger at all. I think you've got a logistical problem with this theory. She also could not have known Olenna would come to her and adjust the hairnet or that her actions meant anything at all. Yes, she thinks Lady Olenna is being friendly to her, but it's another thing all together to assert that Sansa knows that Olenna knows that the hairnet has poisonous gems on it. This would take prior planning and a conversation - even if it's only a highly suggestive conversation.

Oh for sure! That sounds like the best part!

They do sound like cookies but they’re a sweetened biscuit. I’m going to try them too with some good Irish butter.

Yeah, I doubt very much that Olenna knew Littlefinger would help Sansa escape. Perhaps Lady Olenna‘s offer was a kindness since surely she realized Sansa was at great risk, but was also beneficial to the Tyrells? It also may be just words uttered without any true intentions. Many times people throw out invitations, because of etiquette with no expectations to actually follow through with it.

How can you be certain Qyburn's plan and Jon's stabbing are not connected? Those chapters would have been closer together had the two books not split in two. I've been trying to find any text that includes the hundred men sent by Qyburn. Was there a black brother that shepherded them to the Wall? Ser Alliser had been in Kings Landing at one time when he brought the wight hand in a jar in Clash and back at the Wall and friends with Janos Slynt in Storm. No mention of him at all in Feast. Cersei told Kettleblack that he'd have a hundred men to kill Jon. There were three Kettleblacks: Osney, Osfryd, and Osmund. Osney becomes a prisoner of the High Septon, and Osfryd and Osmund were arrested by Kevan Lannister who plans to send them to the Wall if they confess. So we just don't know if or when the hundred men left or who led them. But do we have proof that they never left?

If the hairnet strands are very thin the stones would be tiny. Tiny black or purple stones shouldn't cry out "poison!" IMO, lol. And Sansa has already established a precedent wearing hairnets at court since Joffrey gave her the moonstone hairnet back in Clash. That one too must have looked slightly purple, because she wore it with a purple gown. Perhaps the strangler hairnet was made to mimic the moonstone one so no one would think it was new?

The thing about Feast and Dance are they were actually written as one big book that got split - and not neatly down the middle. You almost need to shuffle the chapters together like a deck of cards. I believe someone put together a timeline of chapters so that you can read them in order of events.

Ninja’s by LongRider!

A Feast for Crows - Cersei IV Cersei gave him a sharp look. "What are you saying?" "This," Qyburn said. "For years now, the Night's Watch has begged for men. Lord Stannis has answered their plea. Can King Tommen do less? His Grace should send the Wall a hundred men. To take the black, ostensibly, but in truth . . ." ". . . to remove Jon Snow from the command," Cersei finished, delighted. I knew I was right to want him on my council. "That is just what we shall do." She laughed. If this bastard boy is truly his father's son, he will not suspect a thing. Perhaps he will even thank me, before the blade slides between his ribs. "It will need to be done carefully, to be sure. Leave the rest to me, my lords." This was how an enemy should be dealt with: with a dagger, not a declaration. "We have done good work today, my lords. I thank you. Is there aught else?"

Two problems with this. The first I've already mentioned: Sansa doesn't recall any of this or rather her thoughts are one of shock and fear at discovering that a stone is missing. The second problem is locating the correct stone in a hairnet of several stones. You can google "mesh wire hairnet with stones" and many pictures will pop up to get an idea. The book describes the hairnet: In other words, very delicate spidery web-like strands of wire. The stones must have been very numerous and tiny to be attached wherever two strands crossed. Lady Olenna had to fiddle around quite a bit in order to detach (or as you suggest, replace) a single stone. How would Sansa be able to find that exact stone again? And why wouldn't it just fall out of the setting?

Speaking of Frey family reunion, he started a thread that has some legs if you are so inclined to join the discussion.

But there was chaos and it created a domino effect that ended up with Cersei demoted and Kevan's death. It starts with Cersei as Queen Regent being disgusted by her youngest son's meek and tractable nature. Kevan Lannister refuses to be Tommen's Hand if Cersei doesn't release her regency. Harys Swift becomes Hand instead. Mace Tyrell insists that Tommen marry Margaery. Arianne Martell plots to crown Myrcella Lannister. Doran Martell plots to ally Dorne with Daenerys and Young Griff. Cersei secretly tasks men with assassinating Lord Commander Jon Snow. Margaery wins Tommen's affections with kittens and sweet words, putting a wedge between him and his mother. Cersei tasks Ser Osney Kettleblack to seduce Margaery. Cersei allows the Faith Militant to reform, engineers Margaret's arrest, but that backfires when they arrest her too for treason and adultery and make her walk naked to shame her. Before she's arrested she makes Tommen watch as she has his whipping boy Pate be beaten until he bleeds, all because he had the audacity to side with Margaery. While she's held prisoner Tommen is under the control of the Small Council. Kevan Lannister comes back as Hand now that Cersei has lost most of her support. Oh yeah, and Cersei refuses to repay the crown's debt which leads the Bank of Braavos to lend support to Stannis. I'd say the apple cart is more than upset. Tywin's murder was an important event, but lets not forget who helped Tyrion escape - of course it was Varys and not Littlefinger, but I don't think either "spider" minded his murder one little bit.

Mayhaps a thorough examination of Petyr's motives would be helpful. I think Petyr wants power, but he understands that his birth status is too low to garner enough support to place himself on the throne so his motive is to develop a pawn, namely Sansa. She's beautiful - she looks like her mother who Petyr loved in his youth. She's highborn and can garner support of the Northern and Riverland houses. She's young which he believes makes her naive and easily manipulated. But he also thinks she'll be his willing pupil if he gives her "enough". Keeping all of the above in mind, let's return to your posit that Petyr shouldn't have had a motive or benefit for killing Joffrey. I think that assumption is incorrect. Killing Joffrey causes a power struggle. It creates chaos and alliances are disrupted. It creates opportunities for new deals to be struck with new allies.

The text supports that Lady Olenna procured the hairnet to kill Joffrey. The interview she had with Sansa to get the scoop on the real Joffrey and the motivation to protect her granddaughter are pretty straightforward. She also has the money to buy such a hairnet. Her tugging and fiddling is our clue that she was struggling to remove one of the stones. I think every stone on the hairnet was a purple Strangler stone. It's also quite clear that Littlefinger arranged for the purchase, because Sansa received it from Ser Dontos who was hired by Littlefinger to be the go between. I think Sansa had more reasons to want to kill Joffrey than Tyrion. Joffrey tormented her and had her father beheaded. What did Tyrion ever do to Sansa other than be physically ugly to warrant a desire to murder him? I do acknowledge that the cloud castles that Sansa saw are a projection of her internal feelings. I don't think Sansa even knew the hairnet had poisonous Strangler stones. Here are her thoughts: Sansa thinks the stones are black amethysts from Asshai, that Dontos told her the hair net was magic, and she worried that Dontos had lied to her. That doesn't sound like someone that knew what the hairnet's purpose truly was.

An interesting proposition to explore indeed! I guess I assumed it was all planned by Lady Olenna to protect her dear Margaery, and I don't think she minded one bit that she was risking Sansa's life to do it. I really appreciated you pointing out the symbolic nature of the cloud castles and I agree with your interpretation whole heartedly! I look forward to reading part 2!

On GRRMs not-a-blog he mentioned spending 2 1/2 weeks in London. While there he saw his publisher for ASOIAF to talk about The Winds of Winter. He doesn't specifically describe what was discussed. He does mention that he was still working on the novel after his visit stating he has "so much work to be done". Do we dare hope that he's now in the editing stage of the book?

At least you've made me feel better about not paying for the MGM+ streaming service just to finish it! I think whomever wrote the script was confused about who the main character was. Bernard Cornwell's main character is usually on every page, because he writes his stories in the first person, and Derfel Cadarn is the narrator of the Winter King trilogy. I'm sure the show is struggling with that concept and wants to place Arthur front and center and that confusion is what is mucking it up.

The 3-book series for this (The Warlord Chronicles) is much, much better than the show. I would encourage you to check them out of your local library. I love historical fiction and the Winter King story takes place prior to 500 AD, a couple hundred years after the Romans were in Britain, and hundreds of years before the 13-book series, The Last Kingdom which takes place sometime during the 900s AD. In a nutshell, the Arthur series covers how the Saxons displaced the Britons, while The Last Kingdom covers how the Vikings displaced the Saxons, but later how Alfred the Great of Wessex began taking back Viking held territories which in turn led to the formation of England. I've just finished the first of another 3-book series by Bernard Cornwell called Grail Quest which jumps ahead in history to the early 1300's. The first book, Harlequin (The Archer's Tale in the U.S.) details King Edward's campaign into France in an attempt to take the crown which he believes is also his. It accounts two real life battles in Brittany and afterwards the battle of Crecy in Picardy where the English defeated the French against all odds. The French outnumbered the English 2-1, but they had no discipline and they didn't have archers. The second book, Vagabond will detail the Scottish invasion of 1347. I'd like to get into Vagabond, but I have a big, fat Ken Follett book to get to next titled The Armor of Light. I was on a waiting list with 5 people in front of me, but they all must have declined to check the book out as soon as they saw the massive 737 page tome because I got it less than a week after I made my request!

Just finished watching the last episode of season 2 of Wheel. It was so good!!!