Feather Crystal

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Everything posted by Feather Crystal

  1. I would say block, because sever seems permanent and I'm guessing if the sword is removed the spirit can rise.
  2. I know you are already familiar with my inversion theory, so won't go too far into that, but basically what you've noticed is an undoing or reversing of history. Jon doesn't become the Nights King until after he was overthrown and resurrected. That way he can take his "ensorcelled" Nights Watch and attack and win Winterfell and assume the position of King of Winter. The crown is a physical reminder that the Kings of Winter were defeated and warded, the iron swords surrounding bronze means that their magical power is/was suppressed or warded. The Kings of Winter were different than both King in the North and Lord of Winterfell. IMO the Kings of Winter were possibly undead like the Nights King and only ruled during winter. From the wiki - the Seven Kingdoms: Torrhen Stark, King in the North. Ronnel Arryn, King of Mountain and Vale. Harren Hoare, King of the Isles and the Rivers. Loren I Lannister, King of the Rock. Mern IX Gardener, King of the Reach. Argilac Durrandon, the Storm King. Meria Martell, Princess of Dorne.
  3. Bloodraven is a magical being as well. He's married to the trees and I suspect "undead". Recall that in order to remain in your host via a second life you have to be dead first. His body cannot leave the cave, and it's wasting away. The Children said he's nearly gone - he's going into the trees. Soon there will be nothing left but bones and scraps of cloth.
  4. In the north the dead rise soon after death thus the tradition of burning the dead, so what is the explanation for rotted or skeletal wights? Are you asserting their bodies lay rotting somewhere before being resurrected? Or are you thinking the degraded bodies were dug up and then resurrected? IMO the various degrees of decay indicate that they've been wights for an extended period of time, thus Coldhand's preserved appearance suggests that "long ago" wasn't thousands or even hundreds of years ago. The decaying process would be extended due to the cold temperatures, but I wouldn't think that becoming a wight would stop decomposition from happening.
  5. You've lost me here, because I never mentioned any dragons under Winterfell. Not trying to start any trouble, but if we're going to give credit for that theory it should go to Snowfyre's theory Joruman and the Horn of Winter posted two months earlier.
  6. It's an old Heretical theory that there is a tunnel from the Winterfell crypts all the way to the Wall, so theoretically Brandon could have been resurrected and walked there, or someone came and got his corpse, brought him north, and resurrected him there. There is an interesting discussion on that other forum (again) that Bael was actually a singer, as in one of the Children of the Forest - those who sing the songs of earth - otherwise how did Lord Stark know to compel the Nights Watch to "fly down from their castles" to search for his missing daughter north of the Wall if he believed Bael was just a regular ole minstrel singer? If Bael was actually one of the Children, then he used the tunnel via the crypts to spirit the maid of Winterfell away, and used the tunnel again to deposit the plucked "rose" and her child.
  7. When I was thinking about the parallel inversion to waking dragons from stone eggs, I was thinking about the dead Stark corpses in their stone crypts awakening, but I was also thinking about Coldhands. Obviously when Coldhands was resurrected he couldn't have been dead very long or he'd look like Otzi there! Then after his resurrection the cold is what's preserved his appearance, but again you'd expect him to look a lot worse if he was hundreds of years old, which brings me to my second thought, that Coldhands is actually Ned's brother Brandon. Recall that Brandon was strangled while trying to save his father Rickard from roasting in his own armor and Coldhands covers his throat with a scarf. King Aerys had Brandon put in a strangulation device purchased from Tyrosh and had a sword placed just out of reach. Brandon didn't have to strangle himself, but he did, because he saw his father suffering so. The only obstacle to this would be how his whole body was transported back to Winterfell. Who would have done that? If he was placed in the hands of the Silent Sisters, they would have boiled his flesh from his bones like they did Ned, but if he was sent back home "whole", then he could have arisen from the crypts if the traditional sword wasn't placed on his crypt to keep him there. BUT - another "but" - Black Crow reminded me of the white walkers, which should be the parallel inversion to dragons. How do you make a white walker? BC suspects that Craster's sons become white walkers, but what if the babies are only the blood sacrifice, and the spirit of some old dead bones are what gets resurrected into the icy white walkers?
  8. You know I was actually thinking more along the lines of resurrecting the dead to an undead life like Coldhands more so than white walkers, but creating a white walker does seem more like the equivalent of hatching a dragon though.
  9. Was just discussing this topic on another forum in another thread reviewing the Bael story and how "waking the dragon" from "stone eggs" could be a parallel to resurrecting the dead Starks from their "stone eggs" - the crypts. Recall that fire consumes and ice preserves, that the sun and it's light is associated with life, and the moon and moonlight associated with the undead. Assuming there is a dragon, or maybe Targaryen, life inside a dragon egg, the parallel is a preserved soul inside the bones of the dead Starks inside their tombs. The right type of blood sacrifice ritual brings them both to life. If it's possible for Targaryens to be born again as dragons, then the Starks are resurrected to a different sort of life.
  10. Maggy the Frog saw something, but Cersei tried to manipulate the prophecy by pushing her friend Melaria down a well so that it couldn't be repeated. Repeating it would make it come true like telling your birthday wish after blowing out the candles. The prophecy likely influenced her actions in a self-fulfilling sort of way. Was it Maggy that also warned her about the "valonquar", which has been translated as "younger brother"? Cersei is so convinced that the valonquar is Tyrion that it has influenced the way she views him. She already hated him for their mother's death, but she may not have feared him had she not been warned against a younger brother. Of course Jaime is also her younger brother since Cersei was born first, but she doesn't view him that way, because of their incestuous relationship. IMO speaking the language of tree, rock, and other forms of nature is the talent of the Children and was learned by Brandon the Builder. It's implied that it's a language that the greenseers learn as well. Osha pointed out to Bran that the rustling of the leaves was the old gods talking, so Bran was speaking this language to Ned, but his father didn't understand. Theon is a broken man, which we understand that physical injury seems to help open the third eye. He's more sensitive and may be able to understand the language. I agree that prophecies are used to manipulate the future, and Quaithe is a good example. She keeps whispering to Daenerys, so I think we should assume she has an ulterior motive for doing so.
  11. I would be careful in assuming that the book will have the same explanation for Hodor as the show. And hearing leaves rustle and preventing the death of his father are two completely different things. But Pretty Pig shed some light on a possible explanation for Bran by comparing him to another Marvel character, Kang the Conqueror. Kang is a time traveler and he leaves splinters of himself throughout time. There are many alternate Kangs, so it is possible that there are many alternate Brandons.
  12. This is my inversion theory in a nutshell: that the greenseers know what happened in the past, that there are certain patterns of situations that reoccur on the wheel of time, and that they have manipulated the wheel so that it happens to someone else. How many times have we read that so and so is someone reborn? How many times have we read similar stories that seem like a repeat? I went over some of this stuff in Heresy 192 The Wheel of Time - Eating the Dragon's Tail . The most current turn of the wheel has all the major events happening in reverse and to different families. For example the Greyjoys are experiencing and doing things that previously happened to the Blackfyres and Targaryens. We know the Children have an agenda that they haven't been entirely clear about, but they did mention the deaths of various houses and peoples, even themselves with the wolves last of all. What comes after that? What is the bittersweet ending? Is it a return to nature and Westeros righted again? The seasons rebalanced and magic destroyed?
  13. If Bloodraven speaks truth, then the past truly is the past and cannot be changed, however if you recognize a recycling of situations you could affect the future by changing the players, or rather who it happens to.
  14. I'm sorry that I haven't had the time to keep up, but I'll keep poking away... The blue roses of Winterfell are flowers - so if you pluck one they die. I do appreciate the association you've made with the godhead, because when believers of the old gods die they join the godhead. The white walkers and wights have blue eyes which seems to connect ice magic to their creation, which could be a connection back to the godhead and the act of dying in order to resurrect someone to a different sort of life. I understand the temptation to believe Rhaegar stole Lyanna, but I am not a believer. It is of course the official Westeros story and approved by King Robert Baratheon, but I believe Lyanna's kidnapping replicated an origin story of an earlier Storm Lord, Duran lord of Storm's End who took the maidenhead of a divine being, Elenei, daughter of the god of the sea and goddess of the wind. Elenei chose to give up her maidenhead and marry Duran, and that choice included giving up her divinity and becoming mortal. Thus the act of relinquishing her maidenhead, her "blue rose" led to her mortality. The story does not mention a child. I think we're so focused on the child that Bael left that we overlook the rest of the story. Recall that Littlefinger blames the "singer" in Lyssa's death, but we know it wasn't his fault, which makes me wonder if the Bael story isn't a coverup for incest? Could it be then that the blue rose is more closely associated with sacrificing "something" in order to achieve a different sort of life? "Death" has to be included in order to achieve this different sort of life. Elenei gave up her magical divinity and became a mortal human. She's a parallel inversion to the Other that the 13th Lord Commander saw from atop the Wall. And Duran built walls that could withstand angry gods. Later on we learn the Nights King's followers are sacrificing to the Others. What were they sacrificing? I think we can confidently conclude they were sacrificing human lives, and maybe even children if we're to recall Craster's "I'm a godly man" belief that causes him to sacrifice his sons. It's the Stark blood that is special for ice magic, and I do acknowledge that it could be meaningful for Rhaegar to want a child with skinchanging ability, but my biggest obstacle with this is the fairy tale trope this route would take and I don't believe GRRM would take the standard trope route! I think he wants us to believe it, but that he wants to surprise us with a twist.
  15. The Heresy Project: Tywin + Lyanna = Dead Girl Overture The instrumental opening of an opera is comprised of dialogue between characters which introduce the overarching theme of the story depicted. May I direct your attention to our conductor, the maestro of A Song of Ice and Fire, Tywin Lannister. A shrewd and talented military man who we later learn plotted the Red Wedding to eliminate King Robb Stark, and drew houses Frey, Bolton, and Karstark into his plans, followed by the rest of the North. It was a shocking betrayal of guest right accomplished with the mere stroke of Tywin’s baton, er…I mean, pen. Robert Baratheon was the biggest promoter that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna and raped her. Honorable Ned didn’t seem like a man that would dishonor his new bride Catelyn with an affair that produced Jon, so the reader is easily led to believe that Lyanna is Jon’s mother, therefore Rhaegar must be his father. Ta-da! Case closed. (insert scratched record noise here, followed by the “tap-tap-tap” of a conductor’s baton) It’s quite fitting to refer to Tywin Lannister as a maestro when there are other musical references throughout the books. We have Arya and Sansa who’s very names are musical terms. Sansa is a thumb piano, while Arya (Aria) is a song for solo voice. We have wolves raising their voice in song, and swords that sing. Lastly, there’s Rhaegar, who said to Elia regarding Aegon during Daenerys visit to HOTU: “He has a song,” the man replied. “He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire.” Mad King Aerys was becoming increasingly unstable, Tywin disgusted, leaves his position as Hand and returns to Casterly Rock. Varys whispers to Aerys that Rhaegar was planning to meet with the great Houses of Westeros under the guise of a tourney at Harrenhal in order to force him from the throne. Aerys was not initially expected to attend, but his distrust of Rhaegar drove him to be there, leaving his wife and son behind. There were several great lords that were quite familiar with each other, because they fought the War of the Ninepenny Kings just a few years prior. Jon Arryn, Steffon Baratheon, Rickard Stark, Hoster Tully and Tywin Lannister were all war buddies and on friendly terms as evidenced by the way they sent each other wards and planned marriage alliances, something Lady Barbery referred to as “southron amitions”. This was highly unusual, because under normal circumstances the great houses didn’t inter-marry. Traditionally, they married into their own bannermen in order to gain or retain influence with their own vassals. Here were the “southron” pairings: Brandon Stark - Catelyn Tully Robert Baratheon - Lyanna Stark Jaime Lannister - Lysa Tully There was no peace to seal, and friendships shouldn’t have dictated marriages. Binding five great houses through marriage would have created a powerful alliance that could have peacefully forced Aerys off the throne, and a case could be made that this was the plan discussed between Rhaegar and Tywin. Prior to the Tourney of Harrenal and the Rebellion we have the genesis of a great, five-house political alliance. No doubt Aerys viewed the alliance with suspicious eyes as evidenced by his actions that followed. His first notable step was thwarting the Jaime Lannister - Lysa Tully marriage plans. Cersei worked behind her father’s back and somehow got Aerys to appoint Jaime to the Kingsguard. Later, Aerys makes a point of rubbing Jaime’s appointment in Tywin’s face at the Tourney of Harrenhal. King Aerys made a great show of Jaime’s investiture. He said his vows before the king’s pavilion, kneeling on the green grass in white armor while half the realm looked on. When Ser Gerold Hightower raised him up and put the white cloak about his shoulders, a roar went up that Jaime still remembered, all these years later. But that very night Aerys had turned sour, declaring that he had no need of seven Kingsguard here at Harrenhal. Jaime was commanded to return to King’s Landing to guard the queen and little Prince Viserys, who’d remained behind. Even when the White Bull offered to take that duty himself, so Jaime might compete in Lord Whent’s tourney, Aerys had refused. “He’ll win no glory here,” the king had said. “He’s mine now, not Tywin’s. He’ll serve as I see fit. I am the king. I rule, and he’ll obey.” That was the first time that Jaime understood. It was not his skill with sword and lance that had won him his white cloak, nor any feats of valor he’d performed against the Kingswood Brotherhood. Aerys had chosen him to spite his father, to rob Lord Tywin of his heir. Jaime’s appointment was done out of spite and meant to put Tywin in his place. Tywin loses, not only his heir, but his inclusion in the great riverlord alliance. Or did he? Act I - The Lion Tywin Lannister is playing a game with the Iron Throne as the goal. While Jaime is important as his heir to Casterly Rock, Cersei is Tywin’s key playing piece. Could Tywin simply take the throne by conquest? Maybe. But the belle of the ball at that moment in time was Rhaegar Targaryen. The people lurv Rhaegar! He’s the golden boy with the silver hair and indigo eyes, the Arthur of Camelot, and so dreamy! Tywin tried to make a match between Cersei and Rhaegar, but Aerys would have none of it. He insulted Tywin with these words: "You are my most able servant, Tywin, but a man does not marry his heir to his servant's daughter." Tywin’s pride was injured that day, although “injured” is too mild a word. Consider what Tywin has done in the past to people that “injure” his pride. He attacks like a ferocious lion! The Tarbecks and the Reynes were two houses completely anhilated by Tywin for “injuring” his pride. Both houses owed his father unpaid debts. Tytos was a weak man, and his bannermen took advantage of their leige lord of Lannister. Both houses ignored Tywin’s demands for repayment. Roger Reyne even reportedly laughed when he read Tywin’s edicts, and councilled his friends and vassals to do nothing, thus the beginning of the Reyne-Tarbeck rebellion. The Tarbecks Tywin marched on Tarbeck Hall with three thousand men-at-arms, crossbowmen, and five hundred knights while Lord Walderan Tarbeck responded with only his household knights. The Tarbecks were butchered with Walderan and his heirs beheaded. Lady Tarbeck was holed up in the castle and sent ravens to Castamere appealing for aid from her brothers, Lord Roger and Reynard Reyne. Tywin, however had siege engines prepared in less than a day. The boulders sent over the walls brought the castle down upon Lady Ellyn and her son. All resistance ended and the gates were opened. Tywin commanded everything be put to the torch. He then forced Ellyn’s daughters, Rohanne and Cyrelle to join the silent sisters, while Rohanne’s three year old son was thrown down a well. The Reynes Named after a nearby pool of water, Castamere began as a mine like Casterley Rock. Nine-tenths of the castle was subterranean. The Reynes took refuge underground, abandoning the surface fortifications once their soldiers were in the tunnels. Reynard Reynes sent terms stating that the Reynes would be loyal vassals again if Tywin would send his brothers to them as hostages. Tywin had the entrances buried beneath stone, and then dammed the pool’s stream and diverted it into a mine entrance, flooding the underground chambers. None of the three hundred men, woman, and children emerged, and Lannister men stationed at even the most distant entrances claimed they could hear faint screaming and shouting, but by daybreak there was nothing but silence. Does this sound like a man that would let Aerys words go unpunished? Act II - The Conspirators Tywin was a master at strategic planning, but every strategist has their conspirators. It was Tywin’s plan all along to anhilate all Targaryens, even Rhaegar. Oh, there was some inkling that he favored Rhaegar with that whole Duskendale business, but having a puppet on the throne could never satiate this lion’s appetite for power. Tywin viewed his lioness cub, Cersei as his most prized playing piece that was going to eliminate the dragon from the Cyvasse board. No woman has ever ruled the Seven Kingdoms so his queen would need a king, and even better if that king had some Targaryen blood. Robert Baratheon gets his Targaryen blood from his grandma Rhaelle Targaryen, who was Steffon’s mother. Robert was a classic charasmatic egotist, charming everyone with his smiling exterior, but underneath harbored a storm of entitlement. His appearance epitomized the Storm Lord mimicking Thor, god of thunder, lightning, and storms, and was known to favor a warhammer in battle, and like Thor he was a great warrior. Is it really any surprise that Tywin would use him like a tool? There are thirty chapters spread out between A Feast for Crows and A Dance With Dragons that have title names versus POV names that I believe tell two stories. There’s the straightforward one, and a second inverted one. The Soiled Knight describes Arys Oakheart’s seduction by Arianne Martell. She wants Arys to help her crown Myrcella, which she believes will help her raise support to take over rule of Dorne from her father. The inverted story is Cersei’s seduction of Robert Baratheon. If Robert is Tywin’s choice for king, the only way Cersei can be queen is if they get rid of Lyanna Stark, who is currently engaged in a marriage contract with Robert. The “official story” of Robert and Cersei’s marriage alliance is that it happened after Robert was already upon the throne. Poor sad Robert was still mourning Lyanna’s loss, and honorable father-figure Jon Arryn had to convince him that it was to his advantage to marry Cersei. Did you really believe that crap? If my inversion theory proves true, then Cersei and Robert were secret lovers prior to Lyanna’s abduction. If you are wary to believe the inversion story exists, lets run through this theory like a criminal case. Did Tywin, Cersei, and Robert have motive? Absolutely! I know most people think Robert rose in rebellion over Lyanna’s kidnapping, but this view is through honorable Ned’s eyes. Robert kept his true self from Ned. Ned did witness flashes of the egotist below the surface when he served as Hand and Robert called for the deaths of Viserys and Daenerys. Ned couldn’t believe his childhood friend would kill innocent children, but Robert called them dragon’s spawn! Ned was shocked by Robert’s calm acceptance of the dead bodies of Rhaenys and Aegon, but refused to believe that a man that was practically is brother could be so cold. Have we as readers been similarily blind to Robert’s ruthless ambition? Act III - The Participants Back when Tywin was collecting debts owed their father, Kevan was kidnapping nobles and holding them for ransom. He even married one such hostage, Dorna Swift, daughter of Ser Harys Swift who was either unable or unwilling to repay. The Westeros histories also say Kevan was charged with ridding the westerlands of robber knights and bandit outlaws, but I think Kevan’s men were raiders in disguise under the psuedonym of the Kingswood Brotherhood. Tywin has been known to send out raiders in disguise as evidenced early on in the story when Catelyn kidnapped Tyrion. Tywin called his banners and sent out Ser Gregor Clegane to raid the riverlands, but curiously he and his men rode under cover of night, without banners: Thank the gods for old Lord Hoster, then. Tywin Lannister was as much fox as lion. If indeed he’d sent Ser Gregor to burn and pillage— and Ned did not doubt that he had— he’d taken care to see that he rode under cover of night, without banners, in the guise of a common brigand. Should Riverrun strike back, Cersei and her father would insist that it had been the Tullys who broke the king’s peace, not the Lannisters. The gods only knew what Robert would believe. I believe that this event mirrors what happened with the Kingswood Brotherhood; an assumed identity for uncommon brigands. So who were these robber knights and bandit outlaws? The known members of the Kingswood Brotherhood: Simon Toyne - was the leader Smiling Knight - Jaime said he was “the Mountain of my boyhood. Half as big, twice as mad.” Wenda the White Fawn Oswyn Longneck - the Thrice-Hanged Big Belly Ben - nearly killed Lord Crakehall, but was deterred by Jaime. Ben escaped capture. Fletcher Dick - unknown fate Ulmer - captured and sent to the Wall A google search reveals that “Simon Toyne” is a British author whose best selling trio of books are titled: Sanctus, The Key, and The Tower. A short summary from the back cover of Sanctus: In the oldest inhabited place on earth, atop a mountain known as the Citadel, a Vatican-like city-state towers above the city of Ruin in modern-day Turkey. The eyes of the world are on a group that has prized its secrets above all things. For the Sancti - the monks living inside the Citadel - this could mean the end of everything they have built and protected for millennia…and they will stop at nothing to keep what is theirs. Seriously? I should also point out that in other book summaries they talk about a man jumping from a tower and how it was a symbolic message to the world. Substitute a woman jumping from a tower and it sounds eerily like ASOIAF. I also found this in the wiki under the Tourney of Storm’s End: Contradictions Lord Steffon Baratheon was sent on a mission to Essos in 278 AC, but he died during the return voyage. The tourney he hosted thus must have occurred by 278 AC at the latest. Barristan states that Rhaegar defeated Simon Toyne during the tourney, but Barristan's White Book entry lists the tourney as occurring after the defeat of the Kingswood Brotherhood (during which Barristan killed Simon) and before the Battle of the Trident. In the White Book entry, written by Ser Gerold Hightower (as he was the Lord Commander), the tourney is called "Lord Steffon's Tourney". The chronology of the entry would place the tourney years after Steffon's death, which is suggested as well by naming Robert Baratheon by the title of "Lord", as Robert became the Lord of Storm's End after Steffon's death, and possibly the fact that Jon Connington was described as "Lord" as well, while it is known that Connington, exiled during the Rebellion, ruled Griffin’s Roost as Lord only for a few short years. When the discrepancy was brought to his attention, George R.R. Martin stated that Barristan's recollection of Simon's participation is incorrect and that the aged knight is confusing multiple historical tourneys. It seems therefore likely that Barristan mixed up multiple tourney's at Storm's End in his mind, one hosted by Lord Steffon before his death, and one hosted by Robert after Steffon's death. The contradictions regarding the Tourney of Storm’s End seems to imply that our dear Lord Selmy may not be as honorable as we have been led to believe. His “contradictions” may be attempts by Barristan to conceal his part in the kidnapping plot by creating a false backstory for Simon Toyne, who I believe is actually Maester Walys. We know he’s lying since he places the Tourney of Storm’s End after the defeat of the Kingswood Brotherhood where he also credits himself as killing Simon Toyne. How could Rhaegar have defeated a dead man? It’s a pretty convenient tale since Rhaegar isn’t alive to discredit the claim. How did Ser Barristan get so cozy with Robert Baratheon and have the balls to lie so convincingly to Dany about how loyal he was to her brother? Somehow there is a connection to the Citadel which Sam will likely reveal since our author is telling us that the Sanctus is the Key to the Tower. To expand on my suspicions regarding Maester Walys, lets examine how he may have been a participant in Tywin’s plot. Maester Walys is Walys Flowers and bastard son of a Hightower girl and an Archmaester of the Citadel. Lady Barbery Ryswell implies that he instigated Lord Rickard’s “southron ambitions”. Being that Walys is the bastard son of an Archmaester, I think we can confirm a connection to the Citadel by the author’s choice of naming the leader of the Kingswood Brotherhood “Simon Toyne”. Act IV - The Plan Basically the plan is to remove Lyanna from the marriage equation to Robert, but they cannot simply break the engagement otherwise Tywin risks losing the Starks as an ally. What better way to cement their alliance by turning them against Rhaegar with the death of their beloved Lyanna? Lets break this down into bullet points to make sense of Tywin’s plans. 1) He wants Cersei to be queen 2) He needs to marry her to a king 3) He wants revenge on the Targaryens, which means total anhilation 4) Robert has Targaryen blood, thus legitimate claim 5) Lyanna is engaged to Robert - she has to go 6) He needs the Starks and Arryns as allies 7) He needs the Starks and Arryns to turn on Rhaegar Are you with me now? How does Tywin accomplish his plan and keep his allies? No one must know that he got rid of Lyanna. Robert was the key and Tywin needed to poison the marriage alliance, and he chose Cersei to carry out the seduction. Everyone thinks Cersei went behind her father’s back like Sansa, but the inversion to Sansa would be for Cersei to be a willing participant in her father’s plans. Jaime was just their willing pawn. HE may have thought he was conspiring with only Cersei, and I think this is the fact that will spur him into killing her when he finds out. The plan included having someone dress in Rhaegar’s armor leading a raiding party under Targaryen banners and kidnap Lyanna. Some of the members in the fake raiding party have participated in the Lannister “nobles for gold” debt collection schemes. It is my opinion that the Kingswood Brotherhood is their assumed disguise, so lets go over the members again and see if any of their descriptions can be matched up with who I think was involved. 1) Simon Toyne “the leader” becomes Maester Walys (since I suspect a Citadel conspiracy) 2) The Smiling Knight is Robert Baratheon, the Mountain of Jaime’s youth 3) Wenda the White Fawn is Lyanna 4) Oswyn Longneck is Sumner Crakehall, whom Jaime squired for 5) Big Belly Ben is Jaime Lannister, since he’s credited with “saving” Sumner, and got away. 6) Fletch Dick is Merrett Frey 7) Ulmer is Barristan Selmy, although an “Ulmer” was sent to the Wall. Somebody had to be “evidence” that this group existed, so I am assuming this old man is just a patsy. Aerys II had sent a detachment of men to deal with the Kingswood Brotherhood. Here are the members of the detachment: Ser Arthur Dayne - who led in Ser Hightower’s place, who was injured. Ser Barristan Selmy Lord Sumner Crakehall Squire Merrett Frey Squire Jaime Lannister Here is how the plan was carried out. Robert goes to Winterfell to collect Lyanna after Rickard and Brandon left for Riverrun for the marriage to Catelyn Tully. He doesn’t raise any suspicions as he’s a known friend of the Starks, and he’s got Maester Walys’s help on the inside. Lyanna was sick with red spots at the time, so she was isolated from the rest of the household and under Walys’s care. (This mirrors how Arianne and Arys got Myrcella out of Sunspear.) She would have been weak from her illness and unaware that it was Robert under Rhaegar’s armor. They ride towards Aerys’s detachment. Maester Walys has Lyanna sedated so she really isn’t in any state to resist nor realize what is happening. The detachment was camped out for the night when Robert dressed as Rhaegar shows up with Maester Walys and Lyanna in tow. Ever the gallant knight, Ser Arthur rescues Lyanna, but he dare not kill his friend and prince, but where does he go? Where should he take her? Act V - tl:dr Lyanna and Arthur’s flight mirrored Arya and Sandor’s with Arthur trying to get Lyanna home or at least to her next of kin. This essay’s purpose was to tell a truer story than the fairy tale most have chosen to believe. I am leaving the ending open as my goal has been achieved: to show you how Tywin is to blame for Lyanna’s kidnapping. Twyin demands respect. Even kings should fear his wrath as Robb Stark, Aerys and Rhaegar Targaryen are no longer with us, as well as the Tarbecks and Reynes. He achieved his goals by placing the Lannisters on the Iron Throne.
  16. Maybe not reborn as in the recreation sense where the same spirits find new lives by inhabiting newborn babes, but there is evidence that the same situations come back around as if on a wheel of time, and people are finding themselves, albeit unconsciously, in similar circumstances as many of the famous heroes from the past. I will point to the Greyjoy family who seem to be reliving the lives of the Targaryens and Blackfyre Pretenders. They are poised to take and bind dragons, and use them to conquer Westeros like Aegon the Great. The Iron Captain of the Ironborn using iron swords flying on dragons to take the Iron Throne. Will they succeed like Targaryens or fail like Blackfyre Pretenders?
  17. My thoughts about the wheel of time are still evolving, so don't go back and reread my old posts, because I really should update them. I think I have been inserting updates as comments. Funny you mentioned "hollow earth", because @WeaselPie has a hollow earth theory, and the opening sequence of the mummer's version does seem to visually show a hollow or concave world. The astrolabe that flies all over the screen as they show the different houses also seems to imply that the sun is in the center with the houses ingraved on the "straps" (for lack of a better description) encircle it. Or maybe it's an eye in the center? It would be cool if the astrolabe had an eye in the center like Bran's third eye. I agree that the sequence doesn't necessarily have to be exactly in reverse, because we seem to have a cluster-fuck with Jon representing not only the Nights King, but he may end up being the King in the North that would not kneel. If you've read Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series, his fantasy world is said to be broken. Most of the main characters have special powers of some type and can travel to other ages, have been reincarnated, and can meet and travel in dreams. You mentioned House Toland's sigil being a circle representing the wheel of time, but Master Flagons brought to my attention that there is a Lord Trebor Jordayne of House Jordayne of the Tor which is a clear reference to Robert Jordan, the author of the Wheel of Time series…Trebor is Robert in reverse. House Jordayne of the Tor is one of the principal noble houses of Dorne. The Tor (which is also the name of Jordan's publisher) is placed on the southern coast of the Sea of Dorne. Their blazon is a golden quill on checkered dark and light green. Their words do not appear in the books, but in a semi-canon source they are stated to be "Let it be Written".
  18. TIME LOOPS! Amen, brother! ba-de-ba-de-ba-de-ba-da, that's all folks!
  19. These are the first five uses of peel in the series. Ned beheads the deserter Gared. Theon wants to kill Jaime after being captured. Drogo dies due to the corruption in his wound. Mormont speaks of Ned's death and lastly Cressen chokes to death as Patchface's cowbells peel in his ears. As you continue to go down the list the hits become less clear. Only about a third of uses relate to death. In the other uses is ‘death’ implied, is Martin using other overlapping symbolism to confuse the reader or does he simply drop the connection altogether so as to obfuscate or throw off the readership? Personally I lean toward the first and second possibilities but I cannot answer this question with comfortable certitude. Despite my uncertainty on an emphatic answer, this type of symbolic intent is readily consistent throughout word choice usage. What I find truly fascinating though is when several of these specific word choices’ symbolic import overlap to create one of these clusters. Let’s view one of these clusters piecemeal then view a quote that slams them all together. The accepted interpretation of this line regards the blue flower representing a rose. This would be representative of Jon Snow, as Lyanna’s son, who is heavily associated with the blue rose of the North. I want to focus on “sweetness” here in this context. When we see a sweet smell the reader can determine it can hide a foul smell underneath. Sweet is often used along with poison to give this a more sinister edge. Going back to the blue rose with this idea of sweetness serving to hide poison this blue rose becomes much less appealing as a positive symbol for Jon. As Ned reaches for the sweet smelling rosy crown, he gets pricked. The rose and its thorn serve as a parallel to sweet poison. I chose the two quote where sweet poison occurs with honey as well. When settling the Bracken-Blackwood dispute Jaime states it is a “sweet that will make him fat and rot his teeth” (rot is sometimes a substitute for corruption which appears shortly). This ties into the Bear and the Maiden Fair hypothesis SSR set forth, that the bear goes for the maiden’s honey and is killed for it, just as Ned is stabbed by the thorn when reaching for the sweet rose. Returning to blue flowers, from Wikipedia: Blue roses are artificial, represent reaching for the impossible and denote royalty. The nature of attaining the impossible would be like entering into one of these greenseer godheads. With that in mind, let’s look at one of the few godheads we have seen firsthand, at the House of the Undying. Blue is often associated with Jon Snow (as the Ice Warrior, hence why I can understand why a good section of fans believe Jon is not a Targ but all North by blood) along with the shadows I have already mentioned. Jon is described as hiding his true face but Drogo hides his face behind a 'copper mask' to Dany. The copper is his skin, so think of the Faceless Men using another’s face to hide their own. Since we have witnessed the undertow of the deathly peel, the sweet smell covering foul ones and the blue corruption of the godhead’s fiery heart, let's see the full quote of Drogo's dying, as it is loaded with these hidden meanings. There is the mud, which I pointed out at the end of Part I, is associated with life in opposition to the destructive nature of fire but since it is cracked and dried it is no longer life-giving. The leaves connect to the Old Gods of the North and the godhead Bran ultimately taps into with Bloodraven. The "sweet smell rose" implies that fragrant blue rose which attempts to choke her, as Will does to Waymar in the AGOT Prologue. Sansa is also believed to be the "maid at a feast with purple serpents in her hair, venom dripping from their fangs," as she supplies the poison (venom) necklace that chokes the life from Joffrey and is herself referred to as "soft-spoken, sweet-smelling Sansa," by Tyrion earlier in ASOS. Now that I’ve shown a passage with several hidden meanings that tie into other passages, let’s go real wide with it. So wide in fact we are going to leave the series behind for a moment. In The Captain of Guards - AFFC chapter 2, the over-ripe blood oranges that are dropping/plopping around Doran Martel symbolize that he's waited too long to act on his deceitful plans. I say "deceitful", because he had a secret pact to marry his children to Targaryen heirs which would have been viewed as treason by the Lannister's. (Just a quick aside...this pact seems contrary for a House that should have been angry with House Targaryen IF Rhaegar had set Elia aside. But this is neither here nor there with regards to the current discussion of orange symbolism!) In the afor named chapter the over-ripe bursting oranges are also symbolic of the Tarbecks. And here may be how you made the association with "life", because the Tarbecks were annihilated by Tywin before he drowned out the Reynes of Castamere. Tywin laid siege to the Tarbecks and killed them by using catapults until their castle collapsed on top them. Another use of oranges as symbolism comes in The Queenmaker - AFFC chapter 21 where Myrcella split an orange with Spotted Sylva, while Garin ate olives and spit the stones at Drey. What an odd sentence you might say. You may be familiar with another assertion of mine that "spots" are associated with betrayal, usually followed by death, then the association of betrayal and death after the word "orange" might have caught your attention. Then the act of eating olives and spitting the "stones" at someone might be interpreted as "eating or taking life" followed by the word "stone" which has been associated with reproduction. Think "stone apple". Circle back to "split an orange" and visualize what it might look like when you split an orange. You peel it first, and then when you start to separate the flesh it sort of looks like the female genitalia. Put it all together and it very much sounds like (in this order) sex, betrayal, death or deadly injury, and lastly birth of a child. Moving on to the "blue flower" symbolism, recall that Bael plucked the blue rose. When a young woman flowers or gets her first menstrual cycle you could say that "plucking" is just another word for saying Bael took her virginity. The blue flower is not the baby. The baby is what was left as payment for plucking the flower. Some women die in or shortly after childbirth thus the "blue" symbolism of the flower. The color blue in this story is symbolic for death. Therefore the blue flower is the plucked woman that lost her maidenhead and died as a result of childbirth. So how do we interpret the blue flower in the chink in the wall of ice in Dany's vision? How would the death of a woman fill the air with sweetness? Would thinking about the word "chink" bring any insight? A chink is a narrow opening, but it can also mean the opposite. You can add a chink to fill a narrow opening like when you put a folded napkin under a shorter table leg. I don't have a good explanation for Dany's vision, but I think GRRM wants us to think the blue flower is Jon. It's an easy and sweet jump to make, but I'm not so sure it's the correct conclusion.
  20. Hi Cowboy Dan. Just stopping by to let you know that I have been reading and following along. I really enjoyed the red/black and white parallels between Jaime and Jon. The Lannisters versus the Starks are GRRM's version of the two rival branches of the real world House of Plantagenent with the Lannister's being the red-rosed House of Lancaster, and the Starks being the white-rosed House of York. Their conflicts are inspired of the War of the Roses. In the real War of the Roses the final victors were House of Lancaster, but I think most readers are hoping that GRRM has a victory for House of York - aka House Stark in our fantasy story. GRRM has been stressing this red and white theme of opposing forces over and over and over and I am surprised by anyone that doesn't understand that the parallel inversions are more than just a literary construct. We were being trained and prepared to decipher the titled chapters. These titled chapters are meant to be interpreted like Melisandre reads her flames. Read what he's saying, but also think about what he might be saying if everything were a mirrored inversion. I'm not quite caught up on the thread. I haven't quite gotten to Sierpinsky Gasket yet, but I'll try to contribute when I have something constructive to say. Keep your chin up!
  21. Just stopping by to say that I have been reading and following along, but lately I just haven't had the time to go in depth with my explanations. Hopefully I'll be able to circle back to provide supporting evidence for my theories, but right now I have to say I really like the parallels between Jaime and Daemon. I remain a Jon Targaryen disbeliever though, as I believe since he's supposed to have "more of the north in him" that he may be a child of incest himself as a product of Brandon and Lyanna. This would explain more than a few things including Brandon's actions when learning of her abduction, Ned's guilty conscience...withholding Jon's birthright from him, which at the same time protected him somewhat from Catelyn since he would displace her children as heirs to Winterfell, and kept the abomination of incest secret. It also may have helped him "see" Cersei and Jaime's incestuous relationship too. I think there are hints that Jaime and Cersei are Targaryens, but it would be contradictory to my inversion theory, because I believe the wheel of time is running in reverse including the sequence of human invaders. Before it was First Men, Andals, Rhoynar/Dornish, then Targaryen. The reverse then is Targaryen, Dornish/Rhoynar, Andals, First Men. Robert Baratheon displaced Aerys Targaryen, then Cersei's children. I guess Cersei could be included as a Targaryen? Arianne represents the Dornish. Jon Con's Aegon is the Rhoynar, If Cersei is Targaryen then the Faith will represent Andal rule, and it'll end with First Men rule before returning to just the land. Someone will rebuild or maybe no one. This reversal of time occurred during the Year of the False Spring and the Tourney at Harrenhal. This is when time flips. But...this is not the thread to delve further into this! I look forward to the discussion your topic is sure to spark!
  22. The Green Men are supposed to be guarding the trees on the Isle of Faces. Why would there be one north of the Wall? This is a good point. If the wights bring the cold why didn't they all feel it? When Jon awoke he noticed the cold though, so it was the cold that animated them.
  23. Nissa is also a girl's name of Hebrew origin and means "to test". There is a variation, or maybe it is the origin, of Nissa. "Nissan" which in the Hebrew is the name of the first month of their calendar. The Hebrew Passover, and the day the Israelites left their Egyptian bondage, and the day Jesus was crucified are all said to have happened on the 14th day of Nissan. All three were tests of faith. Since Nissan is a month and each month has a moon, Nissa could be referring to a "moon", therefore Nissa Nissa means "moon moon". IMO Planetos and the moon in their sky are sister celestial bodies. Very interesting observation! Jon dreamed himself a wolf howling for his siblings when he saw Bran sprout in front of himself as a weirwood sapling. That wasn't when he was in Ghost, because after Bran touched Jon's forehead he found himself in Ghost looking over a cliff at the wildlings. So I think this is just a dream Bran is having where Bran is the wolf.
  24. True, but I was just pointing out that magic had returned to the realm, and different reports of magical happenings were reported to Dany. In order for someone to rise from the dead in Essos, we'd have to have other fire priests like Thoros going around and performing this death ritual. We have no evidence that anyone did or didn't do this, so the lack of a mention doesn't mean that it did or didn't happen. I took the blue lips of the Undying as coming from the inversion to the weirwood trees which have red leaves and red sap. Whatever tree is the opposite of weirwood trees (Ironwood perhaps?) would logically have the opposite color. Red sap, red leaves for ice magic. Blue "fruit" to make whatever the Undying are drinking that make their lips blue for fire magic. The comet is the herald that a new cycle of the wheel has begun...at least if you're a theorizer/believer of the wheel of time.