Ygrain

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About Ygrain

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    One who prefers walking around unlabelled

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    Fantasy, history, Tolkien, Dragon Age, Mass Efect, fanfic
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  1. On that we are certainly in agreement. That is true. I wouldn't expect him not to check out (in the absence of other clues, it is better than nothing), but I would´expect him to exercise more caution and think about it in retrospect. The memories of Lyanna ad his friends' deaths keep haunting him for fourteen years, yet the mysterious message that brought it about doesn't get a honorable mention? ? Excuse me, where is this stated? Sorry but this is incredibly naive. He is in a freshly conquered city, the main bastion of his enemies. There is no reason to assume that anyone there would be sympathetic to the Rebel cause or to the Stark family. If someone possesses information that the Rebels would want, the obvious reason for them to share it would be to curry a favour with the new regime. Yet, this person chooses to remain anonymous - why? They could have a good reason to, but not coming in person makes them mightily suspicous. BTW, in retrospect, when almost all of Ned's friends are dead and he was nearly killed himself, he should be even more suspicious if it wasn't meant as a trap. That would largely depend on the content of the hypothetical letter, as well as its timing. If the writer wanted Ned not to tell Robert, they would either have to state a mightily compelling reason (cannot think of a different one than hinting at something Robert had better not known, i.e. the pregnancy), or rely that Ned already knows something about the circumstances of Lyanna's disappearance that Robert shouldn't know, or the message would have to be delivered only after the break up. No matter the scenario, though, the danger remains the same: the person chose to share some knowledge but not reveal their identity, so there is no way of finding out what else they might know. So there is a person who might know about the secret whose motives are completely unknown. That's basically a Damocles sword hanging above Ned's head the whole time: does this person know? and will they keep the secret? For fourteen years, Ned carries his burden alone, doesn't relieve his conscience or Cat's worries, but is perfectly fine with the existence of someone who might destroy everyone he loves? Yet, no such thought, not a single hint at such a worry, ever crosses his mind. I've re-read the chapter, and don't see a thing. Can you show me which part you think points at this? The one mention of Jon along with Benjen doesn't seem like Varys trying to find out anything.
  2. All Ed- names can use Ned as a shortened form, just like all Al-names can be shortened to Al. One thing that can be safely assumed in this particular instance is that House Dayne doesn't hold any grudge against The Ned for killing Arthur (and it also means that he wasn't the one who dishonoured Ashara). Wow, thanks for the compliment. Also, can you explain why, if it's so simple, a vast majority of people never figure it on their own, and how exactly is close-minded if you go from hints to a conclusion, instead of setting up a theory and then go looking for support? Because that's how people, including myself, usually go about it.
  3. No. There is zero reason not to tell N+A itself because on itself, it presents no risk to anyone. It starts to be a problem only when you come up with additional scenarios like a secret marriage or spiriting away Aegon, which, by the way, have zero textual support, and if you don't tell Jon these, he can come to terms with his identity and his mother's death.
  4. Nope - the woods witch's prophecy said that the PTWP would be born from the line of Aerys and Rhaella, which is why the two had to marry. Any child of theirs, or any child of their children, is born from their line.
  5. I don't think this is a plausible scenario. Kevan was lured to meet a person he had no reason to suspect, in the same castle. Lyanna had been missing for months, with no communication with Ned that we know of - and he travels hundreds of miles to check out if this anonymous note is true, with only six people as company? Furthermore, if Ned didn't know where the info came from, we should have been given a hint that something like that happened - I mean, he's in KL, with vipers all around, and he is never reminded of this weird situation? He never thinks, not once, that there is a person who might know about Jon and thus be a danger to him? Finally, while Ned may not know who the info was from, Varys knows. Yet, nowhere in his dealings with Ned does he hint at a thing. Not even in his conversation with Illyrio, where a cryptic hint at bastards who are not what they seem might easily pop up. Nothing.
  6. You're constantly connecting information that have no connection whatsoever. If Ned tells Jon that he married Ashara, it doesn't follow that they were married (not to mention that committing bigamy is totaly out of character for Ned and there is zero hint at anything like that in his POV). If he tells him that she is dead, there is absolutely no reason for Jon to go looking for her. Going out looking for her when Ned doesn't have a clue where she might be gives exactly zero chance of finding her or what she has been up to. Also, not sure why you act as if Ned never lied - he admits himself that he has been living lies for fourteen years, and we see him lie to protect Cat and Sansa. Lying about Ashara would be protecting her and Aegon, which is perfectly in line with Ned putting love and family above his honour.
  7. Only if they have an active result (i.e. I have washed the floor = the floor is still wet/clean). Present perfect + for + a period of time means duration of the given activity for the given length of time, up till the point of speaking. This doesn't adress either of my points, though. If Aegon is the son of Lyanna, then Ned sent him away with the help of people he didn't know and had no reason to trust, and never, ever, thought about him again. And since he is never bothered by not knowing where the boy was or whether he was alright and considered his promises to Lyanna kept, it must have been what he promised Lyanna on her deathbed. - Kinda, doesn't make sense to me, does it to you? Does it seem to you in character with Ned? Also, he thinks that he has been living lies for fourteen years. What lies, if Jon is really his son? Sending Aegon away fourteen years ago and never thinking about him again is not lying. And while you are right that Ashara taking care of Aegon does qualify as a secret not to be told, Ashara being Jon's mother does not. There's absolutely no way that the information "Ashara is Jon's mother" could lead anyone to figure out "Ashara is taking care of Aegon", there is zero connection between those two points. Both Ashara and Aegon are dead to the world, their deaths aren't connected in any way. There is a plausible explanation of Ashara's suicide as grief over her brother's death by her lover's hand, so why the hell not tell Jon (and Cat).
  8. He says, "She’s served us for years and years." As in, "has served" - i.e., still serves. She could have left Starfall or Dayne service entirely after he left, of course, but as far as he knows, she is still in their service, meaning still at Starfall. The usual problem - Ned then promised Lyanna to send her child away and never think about him again, and he never told Jon who his mother was for no good reason.
  9. On the subject of Ashara's involvement: We've long operated under the assumption that, as per GRRM, Ashara was not in KL during the Sack. However, Ran has no knowledge of such a statement and so far, no-one I asked was able to provide a link. So, if she was in KL at least for the end of the Rebellion, she indeed could have been Ned's source of information about ToJ, and a source of information about the Trident and the Sack for the KG and Lyanna because she would have travelled faster than Ned and his army who had to make a stop at SE. Her involvement would thus lead directly to her brother's death (and Barristan would have no idea about this, so he attributes her suicide to grieving for her stillborn baby). Also, if Ashara left Elia's service to deliver her baby at Starfall, she could have acted as Rhaegar's messenger when Elia was summoned to KL, as simply reassuming her position (if possible for a "fallen" woman), or paying a visit.
  10. This has been duly noted :-) This is an incorrect assumption - you can say, for example, "When I entered the room, I found my son shredding the new book". When babies are asleep, they demand precious little care :-) Unsupported by the text, I'm afraid. Possible, but never mentioned. Again, possible but with zero textual support. ...Ditto. Plus, since Ashara is said to have jumped from the tower, she must have returned to Starfall first. The bolded is incorrect - Ned Dayne sas that she has been working for the Daynes for years but doesn't specify when she started, i.e. if it was prior Jon's birth or after. Furthermore, if Wylla was to sell the story of being Jon's mother at Starfall, she either must have hailed from elsewhere, or been absent for +9 months, because otherwise there would be no sufficient timeframe for her to meet and be impregnated by Eddard Stark. That said, it is possible that Ashara was at TOJ as a companion to Lyanna, because she "wasn't nailed to the floor of Starfall", or that she even played some role in revealing the location to Ned.
  11. Not really sure what you mean here. ToJ itself was not a secret location, the secret was that Lyanna was there, so without being told where Lyanna was, Ned would have had no reason to go that way or approach the tower. A watchtower needs to overlook the countryside, so it needs to be at a vantage point ("ridge") while the roads usually follow a more levelled route. ??? Wylla is at Starfall, as per Ned Dayne. Do you mean the Winterfell nurse here? And which hint do you have in mind?
  12. Try to search the forums for some older threads on this - it's not a 100% conclusive but it could be correct. There is quite some infodump on the Blackfyres in the text, the very specific mention of them being extinct in male line... the theory does have some substance and as an explanation of Varys' motivation it is plausible.
  13. I recall this one only vaguely, don't you happen to have a link? Agreed. That's why fooling JonCon is crucial for Varys' plan. Unless Pycelle sniffed something out from his tampering with correspondence, he wouldn't have known. I think Ned's knowledge must have come from another source - Lyanna herself might have initiated some communication after Rhaegar's death, which made her position very precarious. The mysterious Ashara Dayne may have played a role. Ethan Glover, who somehow survived Aerys' killing spree and accompanied Ned to ToJ for some reason, may have been used as Rhaegar's contingency plan to help Lyanna. Or yet someone/ something else. Thinking about Varys: aside from there being no indication of such an action on his part, there are a couple more problems. If Varys wants to protect the Targaryens, why tell Ned at all? Can he be sure that Ned will play along? Wouldn't it be better to arrange the safety of Lyanna's child with the known Targ loyalists? And if Varys doesn't care about the Targs, then why tell Ned and not Robert? It is the new king that Varys needs to curry favour with, not a lord who has just had a huge falling out with the said king. (yet, no such thing is ever mentioned, because Robert would have mentioned how he should have gone with Ned to see Lyanna one last time). And finally, what has already been mentioned upthread: if Varys does have the knowledge, then he shows remarkably little action, or even interest, in this department. What does he do when he needs to coerce Ned into cooperation? Threatens him with Sansa's execution (which others PoVs never show as a plan), instead of bringing up that one big secret which would have broken Ned's neck. That, IMHO, shows that Varys has absolutely no idea, or else he would have played this ace.
  14. Thing is, did this particular piece of news travel South? Cersei probably did hear (her comment about raping a Dornish woman while her home was burning), but did Varys? Also: the honorable Ned Stark slipping once sounds way more probable than the paragon of honour lying to his BF and king.
  15. Ned very apparently not only where to go but also what to expect there, or else he wouldn't need to travel only with closest friends. That, however, doesn't mean that his source of information was Varys. To my best knowledge, there has been zero indication whatsoever that Varys might know or suspect a thing. He knows a lot but unless he is a god, he cannot be omniscient, and having the character considered too stupid to play the game pull the wool over his eyes would be pure gold.