bgona

Members
  • Content count

    575
  • Joined

  • Last visited

About bgona

  • Rank
    Noble

Profile Information

  • Gender Female
  1. The Bear & the Maiden fair

    Jaime is not a maid, the maiden is Brienne, Jaime and Brienne "dance" (fight) against a bear. Jaime is one hand, carries a beard, he seems to be turning into a beast. But again it is as if something is missing. Anyway, I really believe that GRRM played with this song and idea with all the possible couples. Anyway at the only one that is sung completely it is at a Sansa POV. I had read a romance book (yes, sometimes also I read this kind of books jajaja). Well this novel it was at Scotland and the main male character was one tall (6 feet and 6) with black hair and gruffy. It is being compared with a bear a lot of times, as it was a normal comparison. The North seems me to Scotland and Sandor is that tall with black hair and gruffy. So I believe that is not the first time that a man with that physical appearance is compare with a bear. Anyway, I am not Scottish neither English so I can be at a big mistake.
  2. The Bear & the Maiden fair

    I don´t recall that quote correctly. I must do another reread!! Thanks for your help.
  3. The Bear & the Maiden fair

    I love that it was honey Sansa was feeding Lady under the table ;)
  4. The Bear & the Maiden fair

    When whole song is related to one chapter as the one of Sansa, and it is song so many times, even at the Red Wedding. And it is the only whole song that we have at the books, then I believe that is something more than just a cunnilingus song (as pleasant as it could be :devil: ).
  5. The Bear & the Maiden fair

    Yes, but neither Daenerys or Jorah are a maiden. Amd while Brienne and Jaime fought against a bear, neither of them are a bear, even reminding that Jaime has a beard. In addition, Sansa has been described as "sweet as honey" by The Tickle at the Inn.
  6. The Bear & the Maiden fair

    I believe it is more about Sansa, ending with the Hound. They are multiple pairs associated with bears (even Jon and Ygritte, she has red hair, he has the bear sword, but he was the Maiden). I have already wrote this in another thread here and at tumblr, anyway I will post it. It is from a Sansa view cause the song is only song completely at a Sansa POV. Even it is suposed to be an old song (yes, it has been song at Dunk & Egg), GRRM wrote it full it at Sansa POV having a meaning. First, if somebody wants to listen it: This song has been played three times in the books so far. One of them by Tom Sevenstreams with Hot Pie at the Inn of the Kneeling Man. Another by Greatjon Umber at the Red Wedding. And the one that I am going to comment here is played by Butterbumps during the dinner Sansa was invited by Margaery Tyrell and The Queen of Thorns, Olenna Redwyne. “As my lady commands.” Butterbumps bowed low, let loose of an enormous belch, then straightened, threw out his belly, and bel owed. “A bear there was, a bear, a BEAR! All black and brown, and covered with hair. .” Lady Olenna squirmed forward. “Even when I was a girl younger than you, it was wel known that in the Red Keep the very wal s have ears. Well, they will be the better for a song, and meanwhile we girls shal speak freely.” “But,” Sansa said, “Varys… he knows, he always… “Sing louder!” the Queen of Thorns shouted at Butterbumps. “These old ears are almost deaf, you know. Are you whispering at me, you fat fool? I don’t pay you for whispers. Sing!” “… THE BEAR!” thundered Butterbumps, his great deep voice echoing off the rafters. “OH, COME, THEY SAID, OH COME TO THE FAIR! THE FAIR? SAID HE, BUT I’M A BEAR! ALL BLACK AND BROWN, AND COVERED WITH HAIR!” The wrinkled old lady smiled. “At Highgarden we have many spiders amongst the flowers. So long as they keep to themselves we let them spin their little webs, but if they get underfoot we step on them.” She patted Sansa on the back of the hand. “Now, child, the truth. What sort of man is this Joffrey, who calls himself Baratheon but looks so very Lannister?” Two facts are stablished: - Butterbumps sings really loud to let Sansa express what the Tyrells are so anxious to hear. In this scene, it is shown how the Tyrells coax and coerce Sansa to express her own opinion. - The song speaks about a hairy bear that goes to the fair. It is to obvious that we will think of Daenerys and Jorah, to start with.Jorah is referred many times as a bear due to his sigil, in addition he is big and tall. But Daenerys isn´t a maiden anymore. Also, we can think on Brienne and Jaime. Brienne is a maiden “fair”, but also a knight. And Jaime is a golden lion, more than a bear. He fights against a bear at Harrenhal, and he grows a beard but I still see him as a lion. Finally, we have Sansa and Sandor. Sansa is a flowered maiden and Sandor is The Hound. When I think of a hound, I always imagine him with a lot of hair. And also Sandor is also described as tall and strong, an image that matches well the idea of a bear. If we establish that the bear is Sandor we can think that the fair can be King´s Landing (with a lot of life, and bright, smelly and as full of people as a fair). “AND DOWN THE ROAD FROM HERE TO THERE. FROM HERE! TO THERE! THREE BOYS, A GOAT, AND A DANCING BEAR!” Sansa felt as though her heart had lodged in her throat. The Queen of Thorns was so close she could smell the old woman’s sour breath. Her gaunt thin fingers were pinching her wrist. To her other side, Margaery was listening as well. A shiver went through her. “A monster,” she whispered, so tremulously she could scarcely hear her own voice. “Joffrey is a monster. He lied about the butcher’s boy and made Father kil my wolf. When I displease him, he has the Kingsguard beat me. He’s evil and cruel, my lady, it’s so. And the queen as wel .” Lady Olenna Tyrel and her granddaughter exchanged a look. “Ah” said the old woman, “that’s a pity.” Oh, gods, thought Sansa, horrified. If Margaery won’t marry him, Joff will know that I’m to blame. “Please,” she blurted, “don’t stop the wedding…” “Have no fear, Lord Puff Fish is determined that Margaery shall be queen. And the word of a Tyrell is worth more than all the gold in Casterly Rock. At least it was in my day. Even so, we thank you for the truth, child.” “… DANCED AND SPUN, ALL THE WAY TO THE FAIR! THE FAIR! THE FAIR!” Butterbumps hopped and roared and stomped his feet. The 3 kids can be represented in two different ways: 1.- Cersei´s three children (Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen), or 2.- Sansa´s three suitors (Joffrey, Tyrion and Harry The Heir). Sansa is betrothed to Joffrey, married to Tyrion and as Alayne is betrothed to Harry The Heir (if Harry accepts her). Here I don´t count Willas cause Sansa was never truly proposed by a Tyrell man. The goat: is Petyr Baelish, as he has a lot of goats in the Fingers. Also he is small as a goat. In addition, he reminds me to a satyr half-man, half-goat. And again the bear: Sandor Clegane, The Hound. “Sansa, would you like to visit Highgarden?” When Margaery Tyrell smiled, she looked very like her brother Loras. “All the autumn flowers are in bloom just now, and there are groves and fountains, shady courtyards, marble colonnades. My lord father always keeps singers at court, sweeter ones than Butters here, and pipers and fiddlers and harpers as wel . We have the best horses, and pleasure boats to sail along the Mander. Do you hawk, Sansa?” “A little,” she admitted. “OH, SWEET SHE WAS, AND PURE, AND FAIR! THE MAID WITH HONEY IN HER HAIR!” “You will love Highgarden as I do, I know it.” Margaery brushed back a loose strand of Sansa’s hair. “Once you see it, you’ll never want to leave. And perhaps you won’t have to.” “HER HAIR! HER HAIR! THE MAID WITH HONEY IN HER HAIR!” “Shush, child,” the Queen of Thorns said sharply. “Sansa hasn’t even told us that she would like to come for a visit.” Here the Tyrells are trying to coax her to visit Highgarden. The hair with honey can be also the auburn colour of Sansa´s hair. It is relevant that when the song tells us about the fair maiden´s hair, Margaery Tyrell touches Sansa´s hair. The second time that a Tyrell touches her hair (Lady Olenna) is to pull off an Asshai Amatyst from her hairnet at the Purple Wedding. This hair touching can be seen as a symbol of treachery. “Oh, but I would,” Sansa said. Highgarden sounded like the place she had always dreamed of, like the beautiful magical court she had once hoped to find at King’s Landing. “. . SMELLED THE SCENT ON THE SUMMER AIR. THE BEAR! THE BEAR! ALL BLACK AND BROWN AND COVERED WITH HAIR.” “But the queen,” Sansa went on, “she won’t let me go.. ” “She will. Without Highgarden, the Lannisters have no hope of keeping Joffrey on his throne. If my son the lord oaf asks, she will have no choice but to grant his request.” “Will he?” asked Sansa. “Will he ask?” Lady Olenna frowned. “I see no need to give him a choice. Of course, he has no hint of our true purpose.” “HE SMELLED THE SCENT ON THE SUMMER AIR!” Sansa wrinkled her brow. “Our true purpose, my lady?” “HE SNIFFED AND ROARED AND SMELLED IT THERE! HONEY ON THE SUMMER AIR!” “To see you safely wed, child,” the old woman said, as Butterbumps bellowed out the old, old song, “to my grandson.” The bear is sniffing while the Tyrells are telling lies to Sansa (Cersei will never let Sansa go, she is her war prisoner, the key to keep Jaime alive). And the bear is smelling it there. This reminds me of Lady and The Hound, they both could smell lies. There is a reference to Summer cause Sansa is, in a way, still a Summer Child.This reminds me of the white cloak in the cedar chest, with summer silks. The honey on the summer air can also be refer to the lies that the Tyrells say. They are sweet, like honey. Wed to Ser Loras, oh… Sansa’s breath caught in her throat. She remembered Ser Loras in his sparkling sapphire armor, tossing her a rose. Ser Loras in white silk, so pure, innocent, beautiful. The dimples at the comer of his mouth when he smiled. The sweetness of his laugh, the warmth of his hand. She could only imagine what it would be like to pull up his tunic and caress the smooth skin underneath, to stand on her toes and kiss him, to run her fingers through those thick brown curls and drown in his deep brown eyes. A flush crept up her neck. “OH, IMA MAID, AND I’M PURE AND FAIR! I’LL NEVER DANCE WITH A HAIRY BEAR! A BEAR! A BEAR! I’LL NEVER DANCE WITH A HAIRY BEAR!” Sansa is thinking of marrying a White Cloak. She doesn´t realise that there is an impediment but they can´t really get married. Ser Loras can´t marry anybody. He has taken a celibate vow. However, Sandor hasn´t take any vows. It is also surprising that Loras will end with terrible burns, like Sandor. It is funny to read about a pure and fair maid, while Sansa is having those smutty thoughts about Loras. Meanwhile, the song is saying that she will never dance with a hairy bear, and this makes me believe that this is also expressed in a sarcastic way. “Would you like that, Sansa?” asked Margaery. “I’ve never had a sister, only brothers. Oh, please say yes, please say that you wil consent to marry my brother.” The words came tumbling out of her. “Yes. I will. I would like that more than anything. To wed Ser Loras, to love him. .” “Loras?” Lady Olenna sounded annoyed. “Don’t be foolish, child. Kingsguard never wed. Didn’t they teach you anything in Winterfell? We were speaking of my grandson Willas. He is a bit old for you, to be sure, but a dear boy for al that. Not the least bit oafish, and heir to Highgarden besides.” Sansa felt dizzy; one instant her head was full of dreams of Loras, and the next they had all been snatched away. Willas? Willas? “I,” she said stupidly. Courtesy is a lady’s armor. You must not offend them, be careful what you say. “I do not know Ser Willas. I have never had the pleasure, my lady. Is he… is he as great a knight as his brothers?” “. . LIFTED HER HIGH INTO THE AIR! THE BEAR! THE BEAR!” Lady Olenna is also surprised that Sansa thinks about Loras. Instead she is trying to carry Sansa to a marriage with Willas (a political marriage, cause all the Tyrell´s movements have a political reason, like the red rose that Loras gives to Sansa at the Hand´s Tourney, when he gives her the rose, he still has to fight to more times, one against Gregor and after defeating him, against the Hound. Then, he would give a rose to Myrcella and another one to Cersei). “No,” Margaery said. “He has never taken vows.” Her grandmother frowned. “Tell the girl the truth. The poor lad is crippled, and that’s the way of it.” “He was hurt as a squire, riding in his first tourney,” Margaery confided. “His horse fell and crushed his leg.” “That snake of a Dornishman was to blame, that Oberyn Martel . And his maester as well.” “I CALLED FOR A KNIGHT, BUT YOU’RE A BEAR! A BEAR! A BEAR! ALL BLACK AND BROWN AND COVERED WITH HAIR!” “Willas has a bad leg but a good heart,” said Margaery. “He used to read to me when I was a little girl, and draw me pictures of the stars. You will love him as much as we do, Sansa.” Willas isn´t a knight and has a crippled leg. This can be seen as a reference to Sandor, who is not a knight and he will end up with a lame leg. Willas has a good heart, according to Margaery; we truly don´t know that (we haven´t even met Willas yet) but we know that Sandor has a good heart. This is shown in his actions with Arya and with Sansa. In addition, in the song, the maiden is saying that she called for a knight but that he is a bear covered with hair. Sandor isn´t a knight but it is a hound covered with scars. This also reminds me of Sansa at the Godswood praying for a knight, a true friend. Then, she met Ser Dontos first, and after that, at the serpentine, she met The Hound. “SHE KICKED AND WAILED, THE MAID SO FAIR, BUT HE LICKED THE HONEY FROM HER HAIR. HER HAIR! HER HAIR! HE LICKED THE HONEY FROM HER HAIR!” “When might I meet him?” asked Sansa, hesitantly. “Soon,” promised Margaery. “When you come to Highgarden, after Joffrey and I are wed. My grandmother will take you.” “I will,” said the old woman, patting Sansa’s hand and smiling a soft wrinkly smile. “I will indeed.” “THEN SHE SIGHED AND SQUEALED AND KICKED THE AIR! MY BEAR! SHE SANG. MYBEAR SO FAIR! AND OFF THEY WENT, FROM HERE TO THERE, THE BEAR, THE BEAR, AND THE MAIDEN FAIR.” Here comes the smut: this is the discription of a cunnilingus. Where we realize that the hair that he licks is not at her hair, and the honey is something more precious. And in addition she gets the sexual climax. And then she accepts to leave with him. Not before. I know that is a sex reference, but with a maiden sex is made with love. So this can turn a love reference. We can realise also that the first time she says that she will not go with the bear. It reminds me of the Blackwater battle scene in Sansa´s bedroom, when she doesn´t leave with Sandor. This could mean that they will meet again and they will have another scene together before Sansa agrees to stay with Sandor. This song can refer to them, and if it does, I will love to read that scene!!!
  7. Rickon, the Black Wolf.

    I believe more as he is showed to us as a danger (more or less The Hound persona is the danger). But finally it was Sansa the danger to The Hound. Certainly Sandor wearing a green cloak during the second day of the tourney I really believe as a way of showing us the knight that it is inside him. He pick the color of his lady (not as a favour) and he carries it at the tourney. Also he is wearing a green outfit when he arrives with Arya at the Red Wedding. Another wearing green outfit is Cersei at AFFC when she is plotting with Falise to kill Bronn. Before that same scene she has left Jaime while they have discussed. It can mean a change in their relationship, cause she is thinking the whole time what things he used to tell her before. The Lannister have green eyes and Petyr Baelish also has green eyes. I also see at them as changing characters. For that I see important the green eyes of Shaggydog.
  8. Rickon, the Black Wolf.

    I want to do it more properly but I am right now with somethings. I can be wrong as all the theories that we have here, but I really believe that they means something. The first thing that I notice was the Ice and Fire of the title (white and red). After the "tokkens" (just to give a name) of the Starks (as I have related before: ghost to Jon, the weirwood to Bran, the hair of Jaqen J´ghar to Arya and Sandor cloak to Sansa). Also I have notice the great amount of red hair people (38 at least and 2 more doubtful) but also they are somes really important with white hair. Also the amount of people with the alias The Red (the Red Viper, Ser Dontos the Red, the Red priest). Even places or things as the Red Keep, the Red Desert, or even the Red Comet or the Red Wedding, and of course The Red Good. (All with the Red aka tells me about danger) I have even notice when people wears red clothes (you know that at the middle age red clothes were the most expensive because they weren´t easy to find the red dye). But here it is not about how expensive they are, but the moment when they wear it. An example: the night of the Hand Tourney The Hound is wearing a red cloth with a leather silhouete of the head of a dog. Sandor Clegane has a good amount of red in his face already (due to his scars are red) but the author makes him wear that outfit to symbolizes the danger that Sansa can feel from The Hound. Sansa that whole day is wearing a green dress. After that night and after their speach, at the next day, Sandor is wearing a green cloak. Anyway Sandor himself with his face and the white armour can be also a Sansa tokken. All this makes me feel danger when I reat at ASOIAF the mention of red or red variation. After I have look to the white. It is less notice but you can see the White Walkers, Ser Barristan with his white hair, the Targaryan with also white hair, the snow that preceds before the White Walkers kill. Sorry, I have to go. But I will be pleased to discuss about this. ;D
  9. Rickon, the Black Wolf.

    If you want at Spanish and mostly Sansa POV, I will be doing it. Anyway it is one of my ideas.
  10. Rickon, the Black Wolf.

    Antonius in fact green is in important color that shows the begin of changing at Sandor. White means death, red danger. And these are meanings at the book. Black, I am sure, means something but I haven't get it yet.
  11. Rickon, the Black Wolf.

    Ok: Ghost is an albino (white fur, red eyes) and Jon is inside him. Bran tokken is the weirwood: white trunk red leaves. Bran watches thru the trees. Jaqen J'ghar has red and white hair. And Arya is learning to be a FM. Sansa has Sandor's Kings Guarding white cloak stained with blood. Marriage is something always discussed regarding Sansa. Sure they are more: as Griff which shield is a red griff under a white field oppositing a white griff under a red field. He is turning to stone, and normally Griffs are stone statues.
  12. Rickon, the Black Wolf.

    Thanks Queen Sansa!! I didn't know that meaning about Shaggydog. The farest I could get was as a reference at Scooby Doo. But I truly believe that it will happens something as you have say. Wouldn't it be funny that after he will turn to be a peaceful king? I most say that colors also are relevant. And Shaggydog is black with green eyes, IIRC. Green means change. Black meaning I havrn't realise yet.
  13. Best and Worst POV

    To me (this best and worst is so personal! Each one will have their own favorites and each one differents). Best: Sansa (included Alayne) and after Reek, Jon, Arya, Tyrion and Bran (I difference Theon than Reek) Worst: Daenerys (it´s really important but I can´t keep myself of passing the pages wishing the end of that POV).