bent branch

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  1. How did Varys convince jon connington that griff was Aegon?

    Aegon would be 6 by then. Who the hell knows how old a fake Aegon would be. The comment you are referring to started out by discussing how a fake boy could be three to four years younger than Aegon and JonCon not know the difference. I have yet to see a convincing argument for Aegon, if he is fake, being three to four years younger than the real Aegon. Addressing the original OP, it is my belief that the person who convinced JonCon was Ashara Dayne, who we have met as Septa Lemore. I believe that Septa Lemore was with Aegon literally since infancy. This would mean that Aegon is really the son of Rhaegar and Elia. Based on what we know from the book, an SSM where GRRM said the KG were following orders, and an SSM where GRRM said Ashara was not nailed down during the war, this is what I think happened: When Aerys ordered Elia and the children to go to Kingslanding, Elia had Ashara take Aegon with her Starfall. Elia did this to protect her child from his crazy grandfather. She couldn't do this with Rhaenys because Aerys had already met Rhaenys and knew her on sight. However, Aerys had never seen Aegon. When Rhaegar returned to KL and the war, he ordered the KG to stay with Lyanna until she delivered. If things went badly they were to take Aegon, Lyanna and Lyanna's child into exile. After the war, Ned arrived to find a dying Lyanna. Lyanna begged Ned to not let her child be taken into exile. She begged Ned to take Jon back to Winterfell and raise him there. After Lyanna's death, when Ned tried to take Jon with him is when the battle at the ToJ took place. After the battle, Ned took Dawn back to Starfall, where Aegon was already. When Ashara realized that no one was coming, she herself took Aegon into exile with the help of Varys and Illyrio. She faked her death so no one would question where she was. JonCon also faked his death, it is a clue folks! Anyway, when the time came Ashara was the one who convinced JonCon of Aegon's legitimacy. Also, JonCon knows about Jon. Ashara knew about Jon and she told JonCon.
  2. How did Varys convince jon connington that griff was Aegon?

    What extreme appeal to emotions? Isn't that your schtick? JonCon is so grief stricken that he would believe anything someone tells him, even people he hates and distrusts. That seems to be what you're trying to sell. If you have seen a three-year-old child take leave of their grandparents with, "So long, assholes!" you would know that small children make really shitty co-conspirators. You can't be sure of what they know and what they will say. The examples you give are where someone took a child and kept them, reinforcing the story for years. In the case of Aegon, they gave him to someone else. Their "training" of Aegon would have had to have been flawless in order for Aegon not to give the game away. I think that is unlikely.
  3. How did Varys convince jon connington that griff was Aegon?

    Sorry, I'm one of eight children, I am a mom, and a grandmother. I have and have had many children in my life and none of them mistake their age. As you say a child can be fooled, but only if you strictly control their environment. This would mean they have no contact with anyone who is telling them any different (and that is assuming that the four-year-old is advanced for their age). The biggest problem with the whole Young Griff is younger than he appears is that some people think children are stupid little animals who don't understand their environment. Nothing can be further from the truth.
  4. How did Varys convince jon connington that griff was Aegon?

    As someone who works with children do you think it is possible to get a child to reliably lie about the age? I don't think either a four-year-old or a six-year-old would be able to lie about their age. Most children know how old they are from 2 onwards. You could probably get at child to lie about their age in occasional meetings. But once you place that child full time in someone's care, they are at some point going to slip up and tell their true age. This is really the biggest reason you need a child the same age if you're going to place them that young.
  5. Could Marwyn the Mage be a dragon?

    It doesn't say how old Marwyn is, but from his description he is at least 60.
  6. Could Marwyn the Mage be a dragon?

    Marwyn is too old to be Gerion Lannister. Gerion is Tywin's youngest brother. Marwyn appears to be even older than Tywin.
  7. Who paid for Gendry's aprentice fee?

    I'll join my voice to those saying Varys. Gendry was not the only one of Robert's bastards that Varys took an interest in. He was also the one responsible for sending Edric gifts "from Robert" on special occasions.
  8. Could Marwyn the Mage be a dragon?

    I do think there is some hint that Marwyn has some Targaryen heritage. But I don't think that because of symbolism. Although this has been partially quoted before, I'll do so again rather than go back through the thread to find it. From 46 of AFFC, we have this from Marwyn: The emphasis on blood is the author's. I believe the author is telling the reader in a more straight forward way, what the author has suggested many times. There is something magical about the Targaryens. This magic is inherent in them and cannot be separated from them. And indeed, we find out in the end that even the gentle and wise Aemon dreamt of dragons, just like every Targaryen. In a world where the Citadel is trying to remove magic, the Targaryens must be removed. GRRM's editor has said he gives about three hints with increasing obviousness be for he reveals his twist. I believe this is the third most obvious hint about the special nature of Targ (dragonlord) blood. So, Marwyn says, that Aemon couldn't be trusted, because his blood was magic and couldn't be separated from Aemon. Then in the next sentence, Marwyn suggests that he too has this "magic" blood, i.e. at least one Targ ancestor. This actually wouldn't be surprising. We know there were plenty of Targ bastards running around and it would be completely reasonable to find that one of these retained some of the magical properties of the Targs. Anyone can go to the Citadel, so Marwyn doesn't have to be connected to any particular family. But if he is, my guess would be Hightower.
  9. Argh, I forgot about those two. They asked for such a huge amount of money that Dany doubted even Xaro could afford them. I think this depends on what Lemore's true identity is. I think it is Ashara Dayne and will be very plot changing.
  10. Are you talking about the Redwyne twins? This is one I really want to know too, but I think it is plot changing.
  11. Who put the poison in Joffrey's wine. I don't think it will have any further significance to the plot, but we will find out like we found out that Lysa was the one who poisoned her husband.
  12. Why were the Freys so looked down upon?

    It kind of just proves that the books and show are really quite different. Even in tone. This is a popular opinion, but the proof is much weaker than its proponents will acknowledge.
  13. Why were the Freys so looked down upon?

    As readers, our opinions are manipulated by the POV we are seeing things through. The first POV we see the Freys through is Catelyn's. Catelyn has a poor view of the Frey's since her father was their liege lord and the Frey's loyalties were known to be shaky. Another point of view we see the Freys through is Jaime's. He seems to have problems with certain members of the family, but not everyone. Remember, Jaime has a Frey uncle and cousins. We are told that Tywin didn't like the match between Genna and Emmon Frey, but that is understandable since Genna's father married her to a man that would live off of the Lannister household rather than taking care of Genna. We also see that Walder Frey was very resentful of the fact that he had a hard time finding matches for all of his children. He behaves like this was intended as an insult to him. However, notice that he himself made some decent matches with his many wives and that Leyton Hightower had a hard time finding spouses for his many (but much less than Walder's) children. Hightower doesn't seem to take offense at how hard it is to find an appropriate spouse for your children when you have a lot of them (he let his youngest marry Jorah). Finally, how much Walder's children are respected seems to me to be heavily influenced by who their mother is.
  14. ASOIAF is massive. But yet, very CONDENSED?

    Well, you do need to put some description into a book or it's going to be very boring. If you want to see someone who writes a lot more description try looking at some Hardy. But examples of how little description GRRM uses can be found in two current threads. In the thread asking if GRRM should have made the Targaryens black, there have been those that argued only the Velaryons and Celtigars have the Valyrian look. However, the Tarths, Hightowers and two other families in Westeros have the Valyrian look. But because GRRM is light on description this can be easily over looked. The second example is a thread where there is discussion of the ages of the sons of Quellon Greyjoy (Balon, Euron, Victarion, and Aeron). Because of scant descriptions some people argue that Aeron maybe the same age as Asha. Because GRRM gives few descriptions it is impossible to prove that Aeron is late twenties at least. However, from the stories Theon tells of Aeron, Aeron must be at least 5 years older than Asha (who is in her early twenties). Another misconception that exists with some people because of light descriptions is that Stannis is older than Robert. I think many of the debates on the forum arise simply because GRRM expects the reader to correctly interpret oblique information as they read, while some readers think that if GRRM doesn't state something directly than any interpretation is acceptable. If GRRM gave that many descriptions than people wouldn't be able to make the silly argument that Aeron and Asha are the same age.
  15. ASOIAF is massive. But yet, very CONDENSED?

    I agree with you. The story is actually written rather tightly. While there has been a vocal minority that thinks the novels are filled will all sorts of stuff that can be cut, GRRM actually has a somewhat spare writing style. It is just that the story is so large, imo.