bent branch

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  1. Who was more honorable? Ned Stark or Ser Barristan

    Was Ned acting as the Lord Paramount of the North? If yes, then Aerys was his king. So, yes, you are arguing a technicality. Anyway back to my original point about the bolded. You, and a lot of people, are assuming that Aerys had no reason for what he did. As I said, even crazy people have their reasons. It is just that the winners haven't felt the need to tell the story from Aerys' point of view. When asked if he intends to do a prequel about Robert's Rebellion, GRRM has said there will be no need since everything will be revealed. This makes me entirely confident that we will eventually know exactly what Aerys' motivations were. Until that time, I will reserve judgment.
  2. For what it's worth, I totally agree with you about the Daynes. There is no way the Daynes didn't know precisely what was going on. I've tried to think of a way they couldn't know and it is impossible.
  3. Who was more honorable? Ned Stark or Ser Barristan

    Honorable people don't rely on technicalities.
  4. Who was more honorable? Ned Stark or Ser Barristan

    I do know the story and the only reason ever given for Aerys calling for their heads was that Aerys was crazy. That is not a reason. Them visiting Arryn may or may not have anything to do with Aerys calling for their head. It is hard to say since we don't know why Aerys wanted their heads.
  5. Who was more honorable? Ned Stark or Ser Barristan

    We don't know why Aerys called for their heads. Even crazy people have their reasons. It is in omitting little details like why Aerys asked for their heads in the first place that GRRM places his twists. ETA: Also, need to point out that is why Arryn rose in rebellion, we don't know what Ned and Robert were up to at the point Aerys called for their heads.
  6. Who was more honorable? Ned Stark or Ser Barristan

    Well Ned did rise in rebellion to his lawful king. We don't know why he did that yet, so I'm withholding judgment.
  7. Who else knows about Jon Snow besides Ned and Howland? My list would be: Ashara Dayne/Septa Lemore, Jon Connington, Varys, Illyrio, and Wylla. What I believe happened is that when Aerys demanded Elia and the children come to KL as hostages, Elia gave Aegon to Ashara. Ashara took Aegon to Starfall. When Rhaegar left Lyanna at the ToJ he told Dayne, Hightower and Whent to take Lyanna, her baby and Aegon into exile. Lyanna begged Ned to take Jon back to Winterfell with him. When Ned tried to leave with Jon, the well-known fight occurred. When Ned returned the sword to Ashara, she realized that no one else was coming so she took Aegon into hiding herself, with the help of Varys and Illyrio. When it came time to bring in JonCon, Ashara convinced JonCon of Aegon's legitimacy. She also told him about Jon, since there was no way for Ashara not to know about Jon. The line from JonCon about firstborn son can only be interpreted three ways: 1) Complete mistake by GRRM. I doubt this, but is possible. 2) Just a turn of phrase. The people who argue this point out that in the White Book Barristan is referred to as his father's firstborn son. There is a big difference between Barristan and Aegon's situation in my opinion. The difference is that at the time the entry was made in the White Book, Barristan's father was still alive and could have theoretically had another son. So Barristan was just referred to as his father's firstborn because it wasn't yet set in stone that Barristan's father wouldn't have another. Aegon's father on the other hand was already dead. This is a big difference in my opinion. 3) The phrase is deliberate on the part of GRRM and serves as foreshadowing that JonCon, et al already know about Jon and chose to leave him protected by his relative anonymity as Ned's bastard. This would also serve as a clue that Aegon is indeed Rhaegar and Elia's son. It would show that the people surrounding Aegon know about Jon and don't think of him as a threat to Aegon. This option is the most likely in my opinion.
  8. Illyrio's 3 heads

    I agree with you. I also interpret Illyrio's statement in just that way.
  9. Some thoughts on Aemon's Dragon dream in AFFC.

    I think the shadow of the dragon on the snow is probably pretty straight forward. It is a prophecy that Targaryens will end up in the North. And more than one of them. I don't see anything that suggests conflict between the dragons.
  10. Do u believe Varys' castration story?

    I absolutely believe Varys' story. However, before I explain why I need to address a few mistakes in your understanding. 1) Varys was not castrated during Robert's era. Varys was castrated as a pre-pubescent boy. That means around age 10. If we assume that Varys was about 25 when he came to KL, then at the start of the story he would have been about 40 years old. More realistically, given that Varys had a highly successful criminal enterprise before coming to KL, Varys was more likely about 35 years old at the time he came to KL. Therefore, Varys at the start of the story is about 40 to 50 years old. This would make his castration 30 to 40 years in the past, or between 258 to 268. This could be in the reign of Aegon V, Jaehaerys II, or Aerys II. This was long before any of the events leading up to RR (Robert was only 6 at the latest possible date). 2) The second misunderstanding is that no magic was going on during this period. While magic was weak, there was magic being done even in Westeros. We know during this time period there was prophets (Daeron and GoHH), wizards (Bloodraven) and alchemists (the pyromancers) in Westeros. The difference in this era and the era after the birth of the dragons is how easy magic was. During the time that Varys was castrated magic was very difficult and the cost was high (like burning the genitals of a pre-pubescent boy). Now, on to why I believe Varys' story about being castrated. I am going to answer the question very narrowly, without trying to put any interpretation of what Varys' story being true would mean. From one of the best known scenes in the book we have Varys saying this: "A shadow on the wall," Varys murmured, "yet shadows can kill." - Chapter 8 ACOK Melisandre tells Davos this in Chapter 42-ACOK, "You are more ignorant than a child, ser knight. There are no shadows in the dark. Shadows are the servants of light, the children of fire. The brightest flame casts the darkest shadows." In Chapter 5-ADWD Illyrio tells us this about Varys, "By day he slept in the sewers..." And Tyrion makes this observation about Varys' quarters in Chapter 12-ASOS: How I put these pieces of information together is that (1) Varys knows about how shadows can be used to kill people. (2) Varys knows there can be no shadows in complete darkness. (3) Varys takes care to sleep where there can be no shadows (sewers and windowless rooms). I think this shows that Varys has experienced magic in an extremely frightening way and his castration story would fit that situation.
  11. Literary criticism is indeed a matter of opinion. If there was a bright clear line of what was good or excellent in literature, then the literary critics wouldn't have anything to do. Also, if there was a definite standard by which to judge literature, the work of art that completely met all requirements would probably be a piece of shit. There is no more a "correct" way of writing or understanding a piece of literature than there is a "correct" way to paint a picture, compose a song, sculpt a block of marble or brew a beer. As you say this is digressing from the original question so I'll let it go here.
  12. Nope. Just your opinion. All of the other reasons people give for liking this or that book are just as valid as your reasons. For instance, AFFC changes so much of the story. Often times people will say, "I think blah, blah, blah will happen". I will respond, "No, because blah, blah, blah happened." They will say, "When did that happen?" I will answer, "In AFFC." So, you see, in my opinion AFFC has the richer more, complex narrative.
  13. AFFC because that book has the most foreshadowing of all of them.
  14. The Targareyns and the others + ptwp

    Actually, yes. Not only is there what the GoHH said (which restricted the PTWP to Aerys and Rhaella's line), but also Melisandre and Aemon discuss the issue and both agree that the PTWP must come from the Targaryens. This is pretty much a settled issue in story, although people do like to debate it. The only real question left is whether all three heads of the dragon must also come from Aerys and Rhaella's line. If so, those three heads must be Dany, Jon and Aegon (not fake), as those are the only three people who meet that criteria. If all three heads of the dragon don't have to be of Aerys and Rhaella's line then other configurations are possible.
  15. How did Varys convince jon connington that griff was Aegon?

    Aegon would be 6 by then. Who the hell knows how old a fake Aegon would be. The comment you are referring to started out by discussing how a fake boy could be three to four years younger than Aegon and JonCon not know the difference. I have yet to see a convincing argument for Aegon, if he is fake, being three to four years younger than the real Aegon. Addressing the original OP, it is my belief that the person who convinced JonCon was Ashara Dayne, who we have met as Septa Lemore. I believe that Septa Lemore was with Aegon literally since infancy. This would mean that Aegon is really the son of Rhaegar and Elia. Based on what we know from the book, an SSM where GRRM said the KG were following orders, and an SSM where GRRM said Ashara was not nailed down during the war, this is what I think happened: When Aerys ordered Elia and the children to go to Kingslanding, Elia had Ashara take Aegon with her Starfall. Elia did this to protect her child from his crazy grandfather. She couldn't do this with Rhaenys because Aerys had already met Rhaenys and knew her on sight. However, Aerys had never seen Aegon. When Rhaegar returned to KL and the war, he ordered the KG to stay with Lyanna until she delivered. If things went badly they were to take Aegon, Lyanna and Lyanna's child into exile. After the war, Ned arrived to find a dying Lyanna. Lyanna begged Ned to not let her child be taken into exile. She begged Ned to take Jon back to Winterfell and raise him there. After Lyanna's death, when Ned tried to take Jon with him is when the battle at the ToJ took place. After the battle, Ned took Dawn back to Starfall, where Aegon was already. When Ashara realized that no one was coming, she herself took Aegon into exile with the help of Varys and Illyrio. She faked her death so no one would question where she was. JonCon also faked his death, it is a clue folks! Anyway, when the time came Ashara was the one who convinced JonCon of Aegon's legitimacy. Also, JonCon knows about Jon. Ashara knew about Jon and she told JonCon.