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About Jayce

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    Hedge Knight
  • Birthday 07/08/1978

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  1. The more I have read across these boards regarding this topic the more I am convinced that Mance has had a hand (direct or indirect) in bringing the north together (specifically regarding the Flints and Norreys, those clans) since before we knew of him in the books. I predict this 'Northern Conspiracy' goes back further then we know albeit it likely started for a different purpose and has changed as time, who is in charge, and events went on. I am really looking forward to reading how this part of the story will conclude.
  2. Hello and welcome. Have you considered that the Wall may yet be destroyed and therefore the fight may need to fall back to Winterfell (or further) before anything can be won, therefore Jon is likely going south in which ever role befalls him?
  3. @kissdbyfire + bemused - Go back to post #168 of this thread. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/59217-the-northmen-inside-and-outside-winterfell-conspiration/page__st__160
  4. I have been going through the chapter where Wyman gets cut and Roose talks to him afterwards as if he is still capable of riding out, so I don't think he is hurt very badly. On the next page and a bit there is this which I found quite interesting; According to the wiki Rowan is a wildling spearwife, one of the 6 that accompany Abel to Winterfell. Does anyone else find that above quote a little to ... much/strong/loyal coming from a Wildling about Eddard?
  5. Ah yes Robett Glover, this may be the elusive link I mentioned between Manderly and the others. If we assume that Lady Maege has been in contact with her kin why not Galbart with his, who is conveniently with Manderly?
  6. :idea: I think you're right that there is likely more then 1 conspiracy going on here, though through the various links they could be coming together. Conspiracy 1 - Manderly and Umber, retaking the North. I think this is to do with their dislike of Bolton (maybe they know about his involvement, maybe not) and their hatred for the Freys, coupled with a desire for vengeance. We have seen how vehemently Manderly hate the whole RW thing and how his Houses' promise to the Starks is still very, very strong. I group Manderly with Umber because they were working together at Robb's request to build a fleet. Meaning this split "thing" with the Umber armies, Manderly likely knows about and it is a part of their plans. Manderly is willing to ally with Stannis but only behind closed doors for the moment and might be pulling a fast one with his wording (see above). One Umber army is with the Boltons but one is with Stannis. Conspiracy 2 - Mormont and Glover, upholding the Will. Mormont and Glover are somewhere, maybe at Greywater watch, maybe elsewhere. They must of heard about the RW by now and they must know of Bolton being the new Warden (yet have not come forward to acknowledge him). Bear Island has a change of leadership with Alysane leaving, presumably on orders. Alysane has allied with Stannis even though her younger sister replied to Stannis saying Bear Island only follows a Stark king, possibly sending a message that there is a Stark king still (see above)? There might be ties to the Cerwyns and Tallharts here too, as they were also at Deepwood Motte when Alysane and Stannis were. Alysane now has access to the Mountain Clans. Conspiracy 3 - Mountain Clans and the Wildlings, moving the Wildlings south. There is a lot of hints that the Wildlings, through Mance, have had lots of contact with the Mountain Clans prior to them trying to come south. There are hints that the 2 clan chiefs at the wall are not there for the reasons they say and are in fact meeting with the Wildlings, via Toregg and possibly Val. The clansmen have backed Stannis and are in a position to speak with the Northerns currently with Stannis, again hints that they are spending time with Alysane. Its possible that the Old Bear knew of these goings on, or not. Its possible that Tormund has been bringing Jon up to speed (they do seem to have a lot of trust for each other, where did this come from?). There are implied links between Tormund and Bear Island, possibly Tormund is Lady Maege's or Alysane's husband, or lover? Tying it all together. 1. Manderly with Bolton, Umber with Bolton and with Stannis. 2. Mormont, Glover, Cerwyn, Tallhart with Stannis, possibly the Mountain Clans with Stannis, possibly Tormund with Jon. 3. Mance, Tormund, Val, Old Flint, The Norrey with Jon (though Mance is currently in Winterfell), possibly Mormont with Stannis. The only link I can see with regards to what Manderly and the Umbers are up to is that one of the Umber armies is with Stannis, giving the Umbers the opportunity to speak with the Mountain Clans and with Alysane Mormont. It seems there is someone from each possible "conspiracy" with Stannis while only those from conspriacy 1 are with Bolton and some from 2 and 3 with Jon at the Wall. What don't we know yet? If there are indeed 3 separate plans coming together or if there is just one spreading around or anything in between How have they all been communicating? What does each group actually know, about the RW, about each other, about the Will, etc? Will they involve Stannis or betray him? (As others have said betraying Stannis doesn't really sit well, but it really depends on what these Northern lords want to achieve) Who is named in that damn Will! Edit: To clarify: The Mormont and Glovers that are with Stannis is Alysane and the men from Deepwood Motte, we still do not know where Lady Maege and Galbart Glover are.
  7. Manderly knows that Bran and Rickon are alive, but only knows where Rickon is. If he knows Bran is alive then he knows Bran is his liege lord, not Rickon. So you may have a very good point here.
  8. As for Wyman using his words carefully; So not White Harbor's king, not the North's king, just Wyman Manderly's king?
  9. So it seems White Habor is pro-Stark no matter what. There is a plot going on to rid themselves of Bolton, there has to be!
  10. Exactly, so under Stannis they would go back to how things were, i.e. Warden of the North not King in the North. So one would assume that if they are aiming for a King rather then a Warden that they would turn against Stannis at some point.
  11. You might be right but a couple of thoughts jumped to mind; Does it have to be nasty? Depends on what they have planned already. Also like someone else said the North have invested a lot in to being independent and having their own King again, one would hope they don't go back to what they had before - which is what would happen under Stannis, wouldn't it?
  12. Wonderful. I think you are on to something and I think there may be ties between it all. Wildlings and the Hill Clans There are references that someone else noted in another post about how Mance says some refer to him as The Mance (The Ned, The Norrey, a hill clan way of addressing certain people) and how he fights with a Two handed sword, just like the hill clan champions do. There is further talk about how Mance claims to have been over the wall many times, but why, and speculation that the why was to meet with various Hill Clan Chiefs (personal face-to-face meetings, as well as fighting/defeating their champions, respect of strength etc). So basically there is the possibility that Mance has already been meeting with the Hill Clans, why? Could it be that he was already negotiating that which Jon is now talking about, settling the Wildlings south of the wall. Could Mance have been planning this the entire time, its just he had the obstacle of the Wall and as we know how the Crows feel about Wildlings felt he had to fight his way past? Or did he have a plan with the Old Bear, which was ruined when Mormont was killed? (Old Flint, Old Bear, hmm another Hill Clan name?) Could Old Flint and The Norrey be bringing Mance, and the Wildlings in on other plans? (and Toregg thus Tormund and possibly Jon) The Hill Clans and Alysane Mormont I've already speculated that Lady Maege has been in contact with Bear Island, that Alysane left on her orders (leaving the littlest in charge). I think that Lady Maege and Galbart Glover have been in contact with Manderly and other Northern Lords since the RW and that there is a plan in motion. But to what end? Alysane was at Deepwood Motte with others, though it wasn't apparent if they were working together or if they were just all there by coincidence (Cerwyns, Tallharts and Hornwoods). Her little sister replies to Stannis with a "Bear Island knows no king but the King in the North, whose name is STARK" yet her sister joins Stannis at Deepwood Motte, why? Manderly and the Umbers They were working together building Robb's fleet, they obviously had to communicate to do this. They must of spoken about what happened after the RW, and they could of made plans, especially if Manderly heard from Maege and Galbart. It also stands to reason that there was then communication between them and other Northern houses. Despite this it seems House Umber don't know who to support, sending some to Bolton and some to Stannis, why? Also it seems one of Umbers armies was waiting outside of Winterfell, blowing a horn and collecting Theon and fArya. Odd place to be unless they planned on attacking, or risking being attacked. Why were they there at that time? Linking it all together Alysane could of been speaking with the Hill Clan Chief's that are with Stannis, who in turn could be keeping The Norrey and Old Flint informed, who seem to have had dealing with Mance before and might be dealing with Toregg thus Tormund, who has been spending hours and hours behind closed doors with Jon (who incidentally seem to trust each other more then any other group of people at the damn wall). Jon helped Alys Karstark marry Sighorn and protected her from her Uncle. Alysane was also with Tallharts, Cerwyns and Hornwoods at Deepwood Motte, this could imply cooperation between them (though it could of just been a coincidence). If Alysane has been in touch with Maege this would also imply Glover and maybe the Reeds. Manderly and the Umbers must have something up between them, but I am currently having a problem linking them with the others, though I think Maege or Galbart may be in contact with Manderly (which would make sense to be once they heard of the RW as Manderly and the Umbers had been given tasks by Robb). I'm sure there is more that I have missed. Edit: Spellings