Lady Tippy Wolfsbane

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About Lady Tippy Wolfsbane

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    The lone wolf in service to the stag.
  • Birthday 08/26/1987

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  1. Stannis's Decision to have Renly killed (long post).

    I know that something being useful doesn't make it a deus ex machina, the same way disliking a certain part of the story doesn't make it a deus ex machina. Stannis hooked up with a creepy red "witch" that worshiped a strange god and saw magical visions in her flames. She told Stannis that she saw his victory over Renly even though Renly had more than enough men and power to defeat Stannis, implying that she would be the deciding factor if Stannis followed her god. She drank poison and survived. Stannis followed her god, and took her on as his adviser. Stannis marches on Renly, and attempts to convince Renly to bend the knee even though Stannis knows he cannot defeat Renly on the field. Therefore, I do not believe that Martin's idea to use magic to assassinate Renly was contrived. It made perfect sense to me following Stannis and Mel's introductions to the story. I do not believe that Martin wrote himself into a corner and needed a way out, nor do I believe that Mel's use of magic was a far-fetched idea. If the issue is that a person cannot prepare for an attack from a "shadow baby" because they don't know it is coming, the same is true for the Faceless Men. If people refuse to believe that magic exists in a place where the former kings conquered Westeros with dragons...well, that's just plain ole denial. Davos comments on Stannis' appearance shortly after Renly's death, before the second shadow baby and the Blackwater.
  2. Stannis's Decision to have Renly killed (long post).

    Stannis has paid a price for Mel's "powers". His health is deteriorating, he played a part in the death of his own brother, contemplated killing his own nephew, constantly struggles internally, believes he will have to lead the fight against the Others to save Westeros, and probably knows that he will die in the end. Stannis' story has not been peaches and creme since the "red woman" arrived in his life. Stannis' story works on a thematic level because it is more of an exploration into the dangers of religion more than anything else, and Stannis has suffered immensely due his struggle with his new found religion.
  3. Stannis's Decision to have Renly killed (long post).

    You were explaining it effectively, very much so. :) Those dragons still provided Dany with a way out of her situation, whether people know about them or not. The same way the "shadow baby" provided Stannis with a way out of his situation. Plus, no one ever knows when a Faceless Man is coming for them. Mel's falsehoods are always open to interpretation. Stannis' deteriorating state of health, and inability to make another "shadow baby" is not open to interpretation. If he still had it in him, Mel would have sucked it out by now. Stannis deterioration doesn't mean that he is at death's door right after making the "shadow baby". I see your point. Personally, I feel the balance comes in Stannis' inability to produce as many "shadow babies" as he desires. Renly was warned, but to be fair...the warning was rather cryptic. ^_^
  4. Stannis's Decision to have Renly killed (long post).

    I disagree. Without the dragons, it would have been nearly impossible for Dany to still be alive. Magic is central to her storyline, and her entire story arc after the death of Khal Drogo hinges on her newly acquired dragons "magic made flesh". Personally, I don't have a problem with her and the dragons. I was happy/shocked when I read about the dragons, and was mortified/shocked when I read about the "shadow baby". At neither point was I appalled by GRRM's use of magic to further a character's storyline. In my view, both cases were simply the reality of living in the world of ASOIAF. Initially, it bothered me because I immediately identified the "shadow baby" with dark magic and evil. Once I took a step back to really take it in, I saw it as just another weapon of war.
  5. Stannis's Decision to have Renly killed (long post).

    Actually, your point about the Faceless Men made sense from the beginning, so there is no need to be rude. My point is that I disagree that it really makes a difference, since both are apart of the game. Magic exist in ASOIAF, so GRRM did not conjure the idea of a "shadow baby" from no where. "Shadow babies" exist in a world where you have dragons, people rising from the dead, wargs, ice monsters, and a magical ice wall. Stannis was lucky enough to use magic, the same way Renly was lucky enough to gain a large army through marriage to his lover's sister. No one plays the game fairly, and no one should be punished for a little luck. Renly would have gladly used a "shadow baby" if he had the opportunity. Mel herself states that Stannis is deteriorating due to the "shadow babies". He paid a price for them. Magic is a part of ASOIAF, so magic will alter the story at certain points. If Stannis was sitting the Iron Throne as a direct result of Renly's assassination I might see things differently.
  6. Stannis's Decision to have Renly killed (long post).

    There were consequences to using the "shadow baby", so I don't view it that way. "Shadow babies" are a part of the game, because magic is a part of the game. "Shadow babies" are exhaustible, since Stannis could die if he made another one, so they don't bother me. I don't see the difference between Renly being assassinated by a Faceless Man vs. a "shadow baby". The end result was the same. To be fair, that's probably because the magic in the series doesn't bother me.
  7. Stannis's Decision to have Renly killed (long post).

    :agree: I'm not sure. In my opinion, magic in ASOIAF seems neutral. Its nature depends on the user and the purpose. In Stannis' case, I don't think he views Mel's "powers" as magic. He seems to view it as divine interaction from R'hllor, which further complicates the matter.
  8. Stannis's Decision to have Renly killed (long post).

    True, and Renly lost. He played the game, and the game kicked his butt. Not exactly. There was a price to be paid for the magic that killed Renly. Plus, if the Targaryrens can have dragons, I don't see why Stannis can't have a "shadow baby" or two. Stannis also can't seem to forget the peach Renly offered him, even though it was clearly a jape.
  9. Stannis's Decision to have Renly killed (long post).

    Exactly, it is a superstitious belief based in religious dogma. Stannis killed someone that was fully prepared to kill him. Plus Renly even had the audacity to joke about Stannis' death, while Stannis grieved Renly, and tried his best to reason with Renly.
  10. Stannis's Decision to have Renly killed (long post).

    Renly knew he was a traitor to the Iron Throne, but he certainly had the choice to become a traitor. Renly betrayed Robert, Joffrey, Tommen, and Stannis, his own brothers and nephews (if he didn't believe that they were bastards). Renly chose his fate, and in the end he didn't have enough "might" to make his claim "right".
  11. Stannis's Decision to have Renly killed (long post).

    You're not alone. I believe that Stannis is unfairly judged for his "decision" to kill Renly, because I feel that Stannis was misled by Mel as to how/why Renly would die. Stannis chose to try to broker an alliance with his brother, not to attack him. Renly, and a large number of the men that followed Renly, should have been fighting for Stannis, and Stannis wanted to allow them the opportunity to do their duty if they didn't believe Joffrey should be their king. Renly chose his fate, not Stannis.
  12. Stannis Baratheons next move.

    Oh NOOOO...I can't get this mental image out of my head. That would be horrible. Hopefully, Stannis will completely abandon Mel asap, and shape his own destiny with the new knowledge he has received.
  13. Stannis Baratheons next move.

    Maybe, sacrificing himself for the greater good of the realm will finally give him the inner peace he deserves. He will finally respect himself, and his sacrifice will earn him the respect of the people and his name will be remembered for years to come. I feel that GRRM has something big in store for Stannis, and it will be pleasing to his fans. I actually wrote a brief skit about him and Davos fishing a while back, I wish I could remember it. :D
  14. Stannis Baratheons next move.

    :crying: I hope GRRM doesn't take Stannis out of the game prematurely. He has set it up for Stannis to have some form of a happy ending, even if it ends in death, and it still seem realistic. *fingers crossed*
  15. Stannis Baratheons next move.

    I truly believe that there will be another Dance of the Dragons. I doubt Stannis will sit the Iron Throne, since his story is in the North, but I refuse to believe that he will be on the side with the Others. I feel that helping to defeat the Others will reveal a lot about his character, because he will need to overcome a few personal obstacles and find his own redemption after being led astray by his belief in the Red God. We can agree to this thread. :cheers: