bloodymime

Not to go off topic but I wonder why Thoros doesn't see Robert in Gendry. He's been around since at least the Greyjoy rebellion so he'd have seen a young Robert in his prime.

Or a person would take an oath made to a resurrected woman even more seriously as in holy crap the gods do exist and if I don't want to burn in hell I'd better keep my word. Who knows. On a general note I'd have no problem with Kinglayer dying. It's kind of full circle, we're introduced to him trying to murder a boy and we could possibly see him die to save a boy. I know people love the Kinglayer and all the excuses he comes up with in his head to feel better about himself. But it's not like anyone in the books is going to see a man trying to redeem himself but instead see a man still keeping only the oaths that are convenient to him, leading armies against the people he swore not to raise arms against, threatening their unborn children and feeling pretty damn good about it all since, you know, that's what he actually did. These books are full of people who didn't get a second chance, the Kinglslayer would just be another one of them.

I'll have to see if I have the same impression when I watch it again but I actually liked the White Walkers. Nothing at all like I pictured them from the books but they really gave this feeling of crawling straight out of winter.

I was looking forward to seeing the Bloody Mummers but after seeing the way everyone's been sanitized on this show they'd just end up being more extras in Lannister colours.

When she starts going off on fire and blood her facial expressions really remind me of Viserys from the first season. Good casting with those two.

The Halfhand is now chatty. How delightful.

Well I certainly hope you're right and they make an appearance. I like the Reeds a lot.

I don't expect the Knight of the Laughing Tree at all. They cut the Tower of Joy scene and how awesome would that have been. With so many plotlines to follow already they probably want to cut as much backstory out as possible and as the Knight story just creates questions instead of answering any I won't be surprised to never hear it on the show.

Yep. I held out hope for the Reeds up until they gave Bran Jojens greendream. They obviously have the green light to make actual changes with Tywin replacing Bolton. Besides which you see how much they cut of Arya's travels and you think they're really going to be showing three kids meandering their way to the Wall? Don't even see that much of it in the books. You have them at the castle when Jon shows up and the night in the cave with the Liddle and not much else that's going to make it to the show if that much. They'd either need to find two more child actors that would basically tag along with Bran since he's the one now having the greendreams and seemingly more along in his wolf dreams than in the books or you send the the name actress along playing the part of the wildling that already has experience beyond the Wall cutting out two extra actors and keeping Natalia Tena on the show like you say. I like the Reeds and it'll be great if they pop up but I'm not holding my breath.

I'm actually kind of disappointed Arya has become Tywin's cupbearer as great as the their scene together was. I know they've completely butchered her timeline to the point that something had to change but I was rather looking forward to the surprise and amusement from Bolton that a lowborn cupbearer could actually talk to him instead of clutching their throat and dying at just the thought of it.

I always thought it made perfect sense. It's not exactly like shadow babies are common even in Westeros. You walk into a guarded tent with three people in it and one of them is dead you figure one of the two alive is responisble. That's the whole point of it anyways. Stannis is never suspected of being a kinslayer except by Brienne and Cat. He's about as well liked as Tyrion maybe less. If people started automatically assuming it's Stannis because he benefits no one would support him unless they're completely downplaying being a kinslayer on the show. Even Stannis doesn't think he's resposible. Or at least he fools himself into believing it.

Actually I do wonder how these families not only exist in their lineage but stay in power for thousands of years. It seems unnatural but that's another topic. People like to be ruled, nothing debateable about that. I just wonder what it is about the Targaryens. I'm sure the dragons were incredibly persuasive but they've been gone a long time. There's the idea that if it's not broke don't fix it but it's not like the seven are all pals united in love for the dragons. They all keep sharpening their knives remembering the old slights and grudges against each other. It could very well be nothing more than the practicality of not wanting to go back to the old days of every kindgom warring with each other. It's just the Targaryens don't seem to have much of an impression on the culture of Westeros unless I'm wrong there and after outright rebellion against them I just wonder why the seven kingdoms turn around and treat their blood as so important after a mere few hundred years of their rule when there's so much remembering the time before they came. I suppose it's also no suprise that the next royal family would be fine with the Targaryen blood being considered more kingly since they're the ones with the most of it left.

I'm not arguing with you because you're clearly right in that it mattered to them who had a drop of Targaryen blood in their veins but why the heck does a culture strong in thousands of years of their own history decide the Targaryens are the only royalty by divine right after a few hundred years. They don't even seem to have much of an impact on Westeros. Everybody's still speaking the common tongue. Outside of KL and Dragonstone the Targaryens don't seem to have actually built anything. I've been told they're responsible for the opening up trade and the kingsroad. I don't know how accurate that is but at least the kingsroad makes sense since it comes out of KL but it's not even a clearly Valyrian road like the one Tyrion travels on in Dance, it's a freaking dirt road. I don't see people travelling down that dirt road and reflecting on how amazing the Targaryens are in their magnificence to create a dirt road where once only dirt stood. Nearly all the great monuments and castles come from before the Targaryens came around and despite all the other mistakes Robb's being King of the North to me is making the most sense. Maybe it was the Greatjon pointing it out but someone certainly did, the dragons are gone, piss on them and lets get back to our ways.

How many fans prefer show Osha over book Osha? I've never actually cared for the show Osha beginning from the first encounter with the wildlings. These are proud people who call themselves the free folk and sneer at kneelers yet they all came across as very cringing like whipped dogs to me. Osha is always describes as standing straight and tall while being very direct and no nonsense. I just haven't been able to enjoy the show Osha, she's always seeming sly and sneaky the way she slouches and tilts her head and plays at words.

Liked that little nod of approval Rodrick gave him too.

Yep, and as much as I do like the Reeds it makes more sense for Osha to be taking Bran beyond the Wall in the first place. If you're Bran who do you want to be travelling with just in terms of survival, the crannogmen that have never left the Neck before now or the wildling who's originally from North of the Wall? Without the green dreams what possible advantage is there of the Reeds over Osha. We've already lost the Tower of Joy scene so I'd not be expecting the Knight of the Laughing Tree either. Maybe they think these backstories would just be muddying the waters of so many plotlines to begin with.

How does it undervalue a Valyrian sword wanting to keep where it's best used? Like I've said in another topic the Night's Watch has just discovered the Others are starting to move against them for the first time in thousands of years at the Watch's weakest moment, you don't send away your best weapon, you wish you had more. And Tywin Lannister is an asshole with the heart of a merchant. His being an scumbag and trying to buy a Valyrian sword and Jon's actions are apples and oranges.

People are getting mixed up on the timeline there. Jon doesn't have his wolfdream until they're already up in the mountains. In fact doesn't that dream end by Ghost being attacked by the eagle? Yeah, Jon's line was lame. Found the part in the book and Jon doesn't have his dream until after freeing Yrgritte. On the surface the only things Halfhand knows is he knew Jon's father and grandfather, expects no help from anyone but the Starks and that Jon has a direwolf and gives his reasons to the Old Bear as, “The old gods are still strong beyond the Wall. The gods of the First Men . . . and the Starks.” Mormont looked at Jon. “What is your will in this?” “To go,” he said at once. The old man smiled sadly. “I thought it might be.”

Better for them to be cut them alltogether then butchering the characters down from Howland Reed's children to orphans. After giving Bran the greendreams and Theon coming fast I've made my peace not expecting the Reeds anymore. They've got a pretty big actress playing Osha and there's no way they're going to have her go off and disappear for who knows how many more books with Rickon unless she has to stop doing the show.

Bummer. No Tower of Joy from Ned and now that pretty much looks like the death sentence for the Knight of the Laughing Tree as well.

Why are people so sure the Reeds are out, is there some type of official statement saying they aren't in the show? They don't show up to Winterfell until the feast with Manderly and Lady Hornwood and the Walders aren't even there yet. Natalie Dormer does not disappoint as much as they try to make her. Her first scene was pretty stilted but other than that great. Don't mind the compression on Arya's scenes, they really do a lot of wandering around that probably just wouldn't do well on screen. Didn't like changing the story so that Lorch shows up with the goldcloaks. Preferred the book scene with Yoren trying to convince them that they're Night's Watch and Lorch just not giving a damn. Felt more brutal watching them get wiped out in just a random encounter rather than being specifically targeted. Brienne was great. Considering how much they have sanitized the appearance of so many characters to be more hollywood I was halfways expecting her to truly be Brienne the Beauty anyways. I think the actress is going to do pretty well at capturing Brienne's awkwardness at anything that doesn't involve combat. So far at least. Wish they had kept Shagga as the one chopping off Pycelle's manhood but they could have at least had Bronn complaining he wasn't no barber.

Any idea where to find it in the books? Because I am pretty sure that was from an episode last season in a discussion between him and Varys.

That's more tv Littlefinger who apparantly lives in a brothel. In the books outside of a couple of times he is barely mentioned or talks about whores other than as a good investment.

Littlefinger is the guy you want to think can't be all bad because he's witty and has a nice smile. This is the guy that spent his life making Lysa Tully believe he loved her and then when she was no longer useful pushed her out the moon door like another person might step on a bug. Then to make sure that a girl he grew up with and pretended to love all these years really knew how he felt told her Cat was the only one for him. Think about that, imagine a person you've grown up with and known for all your life and then imagine murdering that person, no matter how good of a reason there could be for it, as nonchalantly as Peter killed Lysa. That boy's got a viscious streak that's he had to hide because he's small and he's weak but that doesn't mean it isn't there. Personally he strikes me as a little Mountain That Rides with brains instead of brawn.

I was watching this again and a line sounded odd to me out of the Night Watch scene where Craster is mocking Mormont and the Old Bear looks at him and says 'we chose different paths'. What's that about? I know Craster was born from a wildling and crow so maybe it's saying they gave him a chance to join the Watch and he refused but it sounded more personal than that. I wouldn't have thought of Mormont as a ranger before he became LC, he doesn't come across being too familiar with the land beyond the wall as well as how late in his life he joined so i wouldn't expect him to know Craster. The crazy thought I had seeing them sit next to each other was how much they looked alike in their builds with Craster looking like he could be Mormont's younger brother. Maybe it's nothing at all but i could see see them fleshing out Mormont's role a bit considering what a great actor they got to play him. He's going to die all too soon as it is.