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    Blood of the Dragon

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  1. Two things I feel confident predicting for Jon/Dany in S8: 1. There will be drama (Jon being Targ heir, Tarlys being burnt, etc.). 2. It won't amount to very much in the end. Jon and Dany will still be in love and will still present a united front against the WWs.
  2. I posted the transcript from that interview upthread, but here it is again (from May 2014): Interviewer: Do you know--speaking of chaotic--do you know the endgame, do you know sort of what happens after the books end? Have you been let in on where things are going? Dinklage: Yeah. A little bit, yeah. I'd have to kill you. [Banter over killing interviewer] Yeah, I mean, they've sort of hinted at things. I sort of don't want to know, but I've heard rumours from the people who know, you know, usually over a couple glasses of wine. You gotta loosen up their tongues a little bit. He implies he knows something, but as I said before, it's very vague.
  3. I'll cop to thinking it was funny at first, but him foisting his attentions on her despite her obvious lack of interest is not cute. D&D, however, predictably responded to the positive fan reaction to Tormund's crush on Brienne as they usually do: by cranking it to 11 and banging the audience over the heads with it. At least Tormund hitting on Sandor shows that he's an equal-opportunity harasser (and Tormund's comment at Hardhome that Jon is "prettier than both my daughters" takes on an interesting meaning in light of the hints in 7x06 that Tormund is bi). No, it makes a lot of sense. Rereading the books, though, it's clear how few happy, healthy relationships there are. There are romances, sure, but they're usually dysfunctional at best, abusive at worst, and almost entirely all doomed to a horrible, untimely end. It's really not the sort of series where one should expect everyone to pair off and live happily ever after. I'll go out on a limb and say that Sam and Gilly's relationship is the only one on the show--romantic or otherwise--that feels remotely realistic or like real people having a real relationship. (A possible runner-up is Beric and Thoros, who seem like they might actually be friends.) The other relationships on the show, as entertaining as they might be, are of the kind that don't really exist outside fiction. Jaime/Brienne is a good example. It's great fun, but that's not how real people interact with each other. It's a specific idea of a relationship rather than a relatable living, breathing dynamic. I will say that for all that GRRM is praised for his characterization, I think that a lot of the ASOIAF characters are more ideas of characters--even straight-up cliches or tropes in some cases--than characters who think and act and relate to each other the way that real people do. And it's hardly surprising that given how many characters there are, and given how GRRM is openly playing with genre tropes, that you get some pretty abstract, unrealistic characters in the mix. Sometimes this flat or tropey quality to the characterization works, sometimes it doesn't, and sometimes it doesn't matter all that much, but I feel that that aspect of the books has an impact on how the relationships come across. If you have two characters who are written more like ideas or thought experiments than like real people, then of course their interactions won't ring true as realistic and character-driven and will feel like boiled-over romcom nonsense or like rehashed romance novel cliches. Of course, the plot-focused, shallow writing in the show compounds the problem, but I don't think all the blame for shitty romance and poor relationship development can be laid at D&D's feet. You take two cartoons and smash their faces together, you still have two cartoons.
  4. Does this quote relate to Jonerys, though? The first part seems to be referencing the similarities between Jon and Luke, but the bit about proper succession and incest seems like a non sequitur. I guess Alfie Allen smoked a lot of weed that day or something.
  5. I'm going to transcribe what he actually says for the sake of clarity: Interviewer: Do you know--speaking of chaotic--do you know the endgame, do you know sort of what happens after the books end? Have you been let in on where things are going? Dinklage: Yeah. A little bit, yeah. I'd have to kill you. [Banter over killing interviewer] Yeah, I mean, they've sort of hinted at things. I sort of don't want to know, but I've heard rumours from the people who know, you know, usually over a couple glasses of wine. You gotta loosen up their tongues a little bit. It sounds like he knows something, but it's all very vague. Alex Graves bragged that he told some actors about their characters' future plotlines and in some instances endgames when he was filming S4 in 2013, so Graves may very well have filled Peter Dinklage in back in 2013. We don't know which actors he told what, though. I take the 7x07 insiders videos hinting at conflict and bad things in store for Jon/Dany in the same vein as we can now take the 6x10 videos hinting at conflict and bad things in store for Jon and Sansa: with a big pile of salt. Jon and Sansa squabbled, but there was never any real suspense that she would go against him. I'm sure Jon and Dany will have to deal with drama in S8, in between the aunt thing, the rightful heir thing, and the Dany burning the Tarlys thing, but will it amount to much? Probably not.
  6. Excellent, no more all caps! Gold star for you. Topic: I know some fans are hankering for some sort of showdown between Tormund and Jaime over Brienne, but to me, that just seems...I dunno, below Jaime's dignity or something. I don't enjoy Tormund creeping on Brienne, though, so I guess if Jaime could shut that shit down, it would be a welcome relief.
  7. Chill. Trust me, the world isn't going to end if SanSan isn't a thing. Anyone who has spent long enough in the world of fandom knows the bitter pain of one's ship of choice not being endgame, and you know what? That pain is survivable. With time, shippers can get over any pretty much any endgame ship disappointment, even allowing for the initial post-finale meltdown. You will, too.
  8. SanSan isn't happening, and Jaime/Brienne is probably doomed even if they do hook up. If anyone gets the happy ending, it will be Jon/Dany. GRRM likely wants a Targ restoration, which doesn't guarantee Jon and Dany's survival, but it sure helps. Sam/Gilly are also likely "safe" as far as couples go. I agree that multishippers are going to be disappointed. As I've said before, Harry Potter this ain't. It's not going to be a Noah's Ark scenario where everyone goes marching two by two into romantic bliss. Given how terrible D&D are at writing romance, though, it's likely for the best. If you want to see your ship of choice have a long, drawn-out courtship with a lovingly detailed slow burn, multiple sex scenes, a big wedding, and 2.5 babies...well, there's fanfic for that. Chill. Repeat after me: these are fictional characters.
  9. I'm sorry that you're triggered by posters pointing out that SanSan is unlikely to happen, and that you can't respond to logical arguments without throwing a tantrum in all caps. You might want to look into why that is. I mean, seriously, why do you care so much if SanSan is a thing or not to the point of abusing and yelling at posters who disagree with you? They're fictional characters, for crying out loud. Chill.
  10. I get that fans sensibly pointing out that SanSan is extremely unlikely to happen is traumatizing and viscerally upsetting to you for some reason, but stop with the all caps. As for your points: Michele Clapton is the one designing the costumes, presumably with input from D&D, and she specifically described Sansa's S7 costuming as removing the possibility of physical touch, so saying that the costume designer is "way off" makes no sense. She knows far more about the show and the characters than you, being, you know, involved in production and privy to character notes from D&D and all. That Sansa continues to wear the visual equivalent of a chastity belt--a tightly laced dress designed to keep other people away--after she orders LF's execution in S7 suggests that no, LF's death hasn't magically cured her of her trauma and opened her up to love. If anything, executing a man for crimes against her and her family while believing that he truly loved her is going to make her less likely to trust in love. She seems deeply disturbed by the idea that LF truly loved her in spite of everything that he did. If someone could truly love her and do all that horrible shit to her and her family, what does that say about romantic love? The poster was responding to the provably untrue claim that Sansa healed from her trauma "two seasons" ago: in S6 she is telling LF that she can still physically feel the things Ramsay did to her, and in S7 she is wearing the dress equivalent of a chastity belt. It's not controversial to point out that Sansa continues to be traumatized by what happened with Ramsay, that this is reflected in her costuming according to Michele Clapton, and that she's not going to go from traumatized rape survivor to falling into anyone's arms, much less Sandor's, in six episodes. You should be able to respond to those sensible, politely phrased points without throwing a temper tantrum.
  11. Michele Clapton knows what she's doing. She also kept Dany out of Targ colours until she was good and ready.
  12. Huh. Could you check the 7x07 outline to see if I was right about the bit with Brienne speaking with Jon at the dragonpit? Because I could have sworn I saw that somewhere. I also thought that after Brienne resigns herself to dying that there's some line like "Now would be a really good time for Dany to show up" and Dany swoops in on her dragons. I could be mistaken, though.
  13. Me, too. Give Dany her fucking crown! You know, I'm so used to D&D's obvious writing at this point that I would be alarmed and unsettled by anything resembling subtle writing. Even their best-written scenes in recent years--Davos confronting Melisandre over Shireen's death, for example--are about as subtle as a brick to the head. I mean, it is what it is, and frankly there aren't that many TV shows with exquisitely nuanced, layered writing even in this age of Peak TV, but I think a bit of subtle writing here and there could have enhanced the show immeasurably. Good point.
  14. Yeah, a female character has goals and priorities other than marriage and popping out babies and finds peace, happiness and fulfillment elsewhere. Shocking! Opining that Brienne ending up as a "glorified bodyguard" rather than marrying and having kids would be an "unsatisfactory end" for her appears to show a fundamental misunderstanding of the character. It reeks of sexism as well. You know who else sneered at serving as a sworn knight as being no better than a "glorified bodyguard"--using that exact phrase, by the way--as a way of shitting on that person's choices? Tywin. Don't be like Tywin. I thought Brienne died in the 7x06 outline as well, but as I dimly recall--those outlines have been pretty much scrubbed from /Freefolk--Brienne does appear in either the 7x07 outline or script summary: Brienne apologizes to Jon for showing up in Sansa's place, saying she tried to convince Sansa (or words to that effect). I wouldn't pay any attention to any of the S8 alleged leaks if I were you, although it's pretty funny that although there have been at least six or seven fake S8 leaks to date, in none of them did Jaime hook up with, much less end up with Brienne. I guess even the fake leakers think that that's far too implausible for the /Freefolk crowd to buy, LOL, which should give you some idea as to how unlikely it is.
  15. Michele Clapton pretty much said that the reason that she didn't give Dany a crown in S7 is that she still has a bit further to go before that can happen. She'll get her crown when she and Jon (I assume) ascend the throne together. As for the other quote, I think all it promises is that Sansa will return to KL once Cersei's been ousted (likely to celebrate Jon and Dany's coronation). Yes. D&D don't do subtle, LOL.