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    Blood of the Dragon

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  1. Size13 posted that Sansa dies when Cersei sends an assassin to kill her. Granted, this was in a post entitled "Piss off /Freefolk with one sentence." Size13 deleted the comment when someone replied "You finally leaked it!". I wouldn't think that much of it otherwise except that we know Sansa urges Jon to consider Cersei the greatest threat, and that in Season 6 we were reminded twice that Cersei wants Sansa dead. The Lads have been emphatic that Sansa survives the season, so we'll see. Tyrion/Cersei dialogue in 7x07 was as follows: Cersei: I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. She's very much your sort of woman: a foreign whore who doesn't know her place. Could be a reference to Tyrion throwing in his lot with Dany, or it could be Cersei needling Tyrion about his attraction to Dany by comparing her to Shae.
  2. Actually, I've been predicting for a long time that the outline meant that Sansa was ultimately doomed, and that Sansa's Vale arc being scrapped in favour of a minor character's ASOIAF storyline meant that she is expendable in a way that the main five aren't. Whether the death happens at the end of Season 7 as Size13 hinted or whether it's reserved for Season 8 remains to be seen, but she's getting killed off, one way or another. I've also been saying for a long time that the Tyrion/Sansa marriage will only be ended by death. Tyrion isn't going to die, so by process of elimination that leaves Sansa. GRRM planned an endgame--who gets Winterfell, who rules, etc.--that didn't include Sansa, and he intends to stick to it. To keep his endgame intact, Sansa has to go. Not immediately, mind, but when LF dies, anything goes. This may also explain why D&D did away with SanSan in the show and focused instead on Sandor's relationship with Arya. No point teasing the relationship if it was never going to go anywhere and Sansa was always going to die anyway.
  3. The outline has many of the same beats as ASOIAF, and GRRM has always said the broad strokes of the ending have remained the same. If he intended to spare Dany along with the other main four in 1993, he hasn't changed his mind about it in the intervening 20+ years. GRRM is keeping the marriage around for plot purposes, just as D&D did away with it for plot purposes. Either way, the marriage is a mere plot device rather than something more permanent. Tyrion is destined for bachelorhood, just as GRRM always intended. Not that Tyrion will mind in the end result, since if Jaime and Cersei die and Tyrion fails to have legitimate issue, Tyrion will have succeeded in ending Tywin's line and his dream of a dynasty, something that will give Tyrion no small amount of pleasure. Tyrion's probably safe. Sansa, on the other hand, will have to die, if only to clear the way for the original endgame which never included her. If Jon and Tyrion have an entire conversation about everything that's happened and how far they've come without Sansa's name ever coming up, I think we can safely assume that the marriage will never be mentioned again on the show. Tyrion hasn't mentioned Sansa since Season 4, and it's unlikely that he'll start now, particularly if he's in love with Dany as 6x10 seemed to hint. The 7x07 script pages also seemed to hint that Tyrion is in love with Dany, so I'm guessing he won't have much interest in his marriage or its end either way.
  4. There should be rules to clarify such things, and in the books there are rules about annulling marriages, but bottom line is that D&D wanted Sansa to marry Ramsay (something they'd been planning since Season 2, apparently) without needing an annulment so they came up with the idea that an unconsummated marriage is automatically void, which would allow Sansa to remarry without getting a proper annulment (something which wouldn't be possible since she's a fugitive from the crown). I agree with @The Bard of Banefort that the issue is unlikely to be raised again. Either Sansa will die, rendering the whole issue academic, or Tyrion and Sansa's marriage will never be mentioned again. I dunno, Lads2 made it sound like hot, passionate sex. The consoling scene where Jon is moved by Dany's grief for Viserion is from 7x06, and although Jon is apparently naked during that scene no sex occurs.
  5. The show did away with the marriage so that Sansa could marry Ramsay. Legally, in the show it seems she was a free agent since the marriage was never consummated; LF said as much, and Roose didn't contradict him. Nor did Cersei blink when LF informed her that Sansa had remarried. The rules are dumb and make no sense in the show, I agree, but there you have it. The book has different rules, of course, where only an official annulment can void an unconsummated marriage, but the marriage could be annulled in the books once Sansa is out of hiding, feels free to reveal her identity and request an annulment. Or Sansa dies, rendering the whole issue academic, which is the most likely possibility. Tyrion's marriage to Sansa in the books always seemed like a plot contrivance GRRM came up with on the fly rather than anything he intended to stick. I don't think GRRM ever intended Tyrion to end up with anyone, which is why he gave Tyrion an unrequited love for Arya in the outline, and an obsession with the long gone Tysha in the books. He has said he has known Tyrion's arc from the beginning. The Tyrion-type characters in his other works are usually bachelors, with the exception of the much-married Froggy in The Armageddon Rag. I don't think Tyrion will be overly upset about eternal bachelorhood in the show, since his only apparent ambition at this point is to open a winery, and since the show eliminated his obsession with finding Tysha.
  6. He can finish TWOW, but he still has ADOS and possibly an eighth volume to contend with. I think all we can say with any certainty is that the main characters--POV Starks + POV Lannisters + Dany--will have the same endings as in the books. Everything else is up for grabs.
  7. Or not. GRRM intended Dany to survive and claims he hasn't changed his mind about the broad strokes of the ending since 1991. How do you expect that Jon/Dany is not going to "end well" for them if both are going to survive? I realize a lot of people want Dany to conveniently die and clear the way for Jon, but it's increasingly looking like wishful thinking in light of the Season 7 spoilers. As for boatsex being intercut with the Wall falling, it could be a juxtaposition of happiness versus doom and gloom, much like GOT has been doing all along: Dany and Jon joyfully entering a sexual and romantic relationship while the NK busts through the Wall. Shit is getting real, but Jon and Dany will have each other. The point is that GRRM gave parallel ruling arcs to both Dany and Jon in ADWD, so his "action commander" status in the show is irrelevant and it's not true that Jon unlike Dany was never "prepared to rule." Plus, you know, Jon has been named KITN in the show, so he's most definitely a ruler. The simplest explanation is that GRRM is preparing both Dany and Jon to rule. Together. Which is why he gave both the chance to fall flat on their faces in ADWD. There were a bunch of Targ bastards on Dragonstone circa the DOTD, which took place more than 150 years prior to the events of ASOIAF. With Targs being in very short supply these days, I'm guessing there are no more living Targ bastards, and whatever Targ blood there is on the island is awfully diluted. TV Jorah has never indicated he felt entitled to a romantic or sexual relationship with Dany. Exactly.
  8. That sounds cool, but how would that even work? Bran isn't actually physically present in the past; it's an astral projection of sorts.
  9. But then the twist wouldn't relate to the ending as D&D said it would. Even then, what would happen? Varys tells Tyrion Hagrid-style "Yer a wizard Targ, Harry Tyrion"? How would Varys know? Why did he never mention it before? It just doesn't make any sense. Apparently, according to Lads2 (I think) Varys hints in Season 7 that he knows about Jon's parentage (...which would be kind of mystifying given his actions over the course of the show, but whatever). Nothing about Tyrion. A great opportunity for Varys to hint at Tyrion's parentage would have been if Varys urged Tyrion to unchain the dragons in Season 6 and when Tyrion balked at the danger, Varys could have reassured him that the dragons wouldn't harm him while conspicuously refusing to explain why. That's not at all how it played out, of course, because the writers had no intention of hinting that Tyrion is a Targ. Because it was Tyrion's plan, and it would be unfair to ask other people to put the faith in his theory, or to die painfully if he turned out to be wrong. Fillery scene to get Peter Dinklage his sixth Emmy nom and compensate for what was otherwise a fairly weak season for Tyrion material. Worked like a charm. Sure, but the point is that that scene shouldn't be interpreted as supportive of Tyrion's Targness, because the people who wrote it, who presumably know whether or not Tyrion is a Targ and know whether or not they want to hint at such a thing, wrote it in such a way as to explain in clear terms why Tyrion would be able to deal with the dragons without getting roasted. Compare this to Stannis musing in Season 5 (?) that Ned Stark wasn't the kind of man to father a bastard. It was clearly intended to raise doubts in the viewer's mind about whether there was more to the story than previously believed, doubts which were borne out in 6x10. Personally, I think we'll be shocked at just how "obvious" the ending turns out to be in hindsight. If Team Jon/Dany is short a dragon, the whole theory about Tyrion needing to be a Targ so that he can ride a dragon falls apart. I think Viserion's death is the end of the Tyrion=Targ theory, although there has been very little evidence in the show to cast doubt on Tyrion's parentage.
  10. It's not "pretty obvious." The gravedigger being the Hound is pretty obvious. R+L=J is pretty obvious. Tyrion being half-Targ is highly debatable, and I say that as someone who's been following the A+J=T threads with interest and who is well aware of all the arguments. Although it's tempting to conclude that the third shocking twist will relate to events as equally heartwrenching as the first two--Hodor meaning "Hold the door" and Shireen being burned to death by her father--I think that the only thing we can say is that it will be as surprising as the first two, although it will likely have been predicted by some fans just as the other two twists were.
  11. It may figure in the ending, but it would be revealed long before that. Someone's not going to pop up randomly in the epilogue and announce to Tyrion that he's a Targ. A scene that was proceeded by a lot of exposition about how smart the dragons are and how they don't harm people they don't see as threats. I'm not convinced, but I think as many others do that Jon as endgame king is looking pretty unassailable at this point, and if you assume Dany will survive, as GRRM spelled out in the outline that she would, there's no reason to believe that they won't wind up happily married at the end. Lads2's script pages have some dialogue where Dany informs Jon that she is barren. If there isn't a miracle baby resulting from Jon and Dany's relationship in the show, I would be very surprised. As for Jon, he'll still be fertile if GRRM wants him to be fertile. GRRM regularly bends the rules where his faves are involved. If there's plot armour, I'm guessing there's also fertility armour. I guess, but Tyrion may be sterile too for all we know. The books never definitively answered the question. Besides, he may as well be sterile for dynastic purposes if he can't find a willing wife with whom to have legitimate issue, and TV Tyrion at least seems to be comfortably resigned to life as a bachelor after his romance with Shae went south. I'd be very surprised if Tyrion ends the series as anything other than a bachelor, assuming he makes it to the end of the series.
  12. I agree. He definitely looks credibly related to Harry Lloyd. Too old.
  13. The whole point of the Tyrion=Targ theory was that it was assumed that he would be a dragonrider, and that he would need to have Targ blood to ride a dragon. With Viserion dead and wightified and Jon confirmed as a Targ, Tyrion riding a dragon in the show seems very unlikely. I suppose he could always take over if Jon or Dany dies, but that seems unlikely as well. Yes, but that bit was prefaced by a long spiel from Tyrion about how intelligent dragons are and how they don't attack people they don't perceive as threats. It was as if the writers were bending over backwards to ensure that the viewers didn't read anything into the dragons not killing Tyrion. We'll see either way. Yes. Admittedly, the more popular theory is that Melisandre would do it behind Stannis' back. I thought Hodor was a corruption of Walder, Hodor's real name in the books.
  14. Given the lack of evidence to date in the show--not to mention Viserion dying and becoming the NK's mount--I think we can rule this one out. Also, D&D said that the third twist related to the ending. If Tyrion is revealed as a secret Targ (and I very much doubt that at this point), it will likely happen well before the ending. D&D's definition of a "shocking" plot twist might differ from the hardened book reader's, though. Many, many book readers predicted that Stannis would order Shireen burned. I found other posts on the boards going back several years where fans speculated that "Hodor" meant "hold the door," although most were being tongue in cheek about it.
  15. I'm confident that Dany loves Jorah deeply. It's just not romantic: never has been, probably never will be. I don't blame people for shipping it, since he's obviously and canonically deeply in love with Dany, and Dany cares about him very much as well. Dany and Jorah's goodbye scene in Season 6 was beautiful, and the love that the characters have for each other came through loud and clear. The only thing is that although Jorah and Dany do love each other very much, they don't love each other in the same way.