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They made it clear in an interview somewhere that they won't be visiting this forum again because it's full of "fundamentalists," and I don't blame them.

Really, did you feel that way about the book, that the scene with Stannis was overshadowed because the book also featured Tyrion killing Tywin and the Lady Stoneheart reveal? Get a grip on yourselves.

How do you figure?

Can we get links or more info please? Google ain't helping me here.

I think the new actor is quite a bit better than the previous one playing Daario. He was really good on the show Nashville and I thought he did an excellent job in the first episode of Game of Thrones. I'm looking forward to seeing what he does with the character.

Yeah it definitely does matter what she thinks. If she thinks he's not a king, then that's her perspective - rightly or wrongly. And examples of other people saying "it's a cliche" aren't actual examples of it being a cliche.

Yes, Robb's marriage to Jeyne was DEFINITELY a shotgun wedding. So if you want to see the marriage on the show as a shotgun wedding, then it actually reflects somewhat the story in the books. Although personally I think that on the show he did it because he was in love and wanted her to be his wife, not because (he claimed, he could have been lying - and I think he likely was) he felt an obligation like in the book.

She argues with him in like one, maybe two episodes. And at that point as far as she's concerned, he ISN'T a king. He's just a dude going around saying he is. Later on she is more deferential and concerned about her manners, etc. Once again, she's an idealistic character who's forsaken privilege to do what she feels is right. Robb falls in love with her because she is a kindred spirit. More going on there than just a pretty face. Also, I don't see how it's "unoriginal" or not creative. However, just so you know, NOTHING is "original," everything is a variation on something that has come before. And it is creative, because they needed her character to be mobile because Robb was on the move, and she needed to be there for him to fall in love with her. Making her an idealistic nurse makes perfect sense. As far as examples - I've never seen anyone here post any. I just tried looking it up, couldn't find anything that encapsulates this scenario, and unless there are at least five examples of the exact same scenario that have repeatedly been used in recent years, then it is not a cliche. So please, if you have specific examples, I would love to hear and discuss them.

Well I didn't think it was a cliche love story. Please give me many examples of the cliche so I know what you're talking about. If you're talking about the "king falls in love with a commoner" fantasy trope (if that really is a trope - people here say it is, but I can't think of any examples off the top of my head), well then it's an inversion of it, because we find out very quickly that she is NOT a commoner, but an idealistic highborn lady from a foreign nation who has sworn off the life she is meant to have in order to help those less fortunate and gain personal gratification through altruism. I really like that. It's a cool angle, in my opinion, and there's a lot more going on there than "just a pretty face," or "just a shy girl in the right place at the right time." Also, the "shotgun wedding" is a pretty modern cliche.

If you say something is "horribly written" you are saying people who liked it and don't think it's horribly written are too dumb to recognize bad writing. OK maybe you didn't dislike her just because it was a change (although with many others here that is clearly the issue), but it's still a matter of personal taste. You said you don't like her because she's "too modern" and you found her "boring" and didn't "get behind her love story." OK. I didn't feel that way at all. And regarding the "modern" thing - that's ridiculous because we are talking about a FANTASY story, in which there are already many characters who have characteristics that are more in line with modern perspectives than they are with "medievalish" perspectives, but they are generally mixes. Talisa was a mix as well - just because they emphasized her idealism doesn't make her "too modern."

Well hey like I said if you don't like it, that's cool. I really don't care. It's the "it's objectively bad and horrible and the worst thing ever and if you don't think so you are dumb and don't appreciate the finer things in life" I have a problem with. As I've said again and again here.

Except that it's NOT bad and horribly written. You just didn't like it (which I have no issue with). I watched the same show you did, and I'm not a stupid person. And others share my perspective, so I'm not crazy. I don't feel "superior" and have no wish to be. I don't care. I'm just calling a spade a spade.

Nah. She's just not fleshed out and is basically a nonexistant character (which is fine because she is not important). If Martin wanted to flesh her out, I'm sure he could have made her compelling with her shyness. But just being shy doesn't equal good characterization.

Except that that is what the issue really is. People can swear up and down to the contrary all they want, but the truth is that they just don't like it because it's different.

I really don't care about this Talisa vs. Jeyne silliness anymore and I'm done talking about it. I hope everyone will just move on and get over it now that she's dead.

What would you guys prefer? Completely vapid and codependent, with absolutely no character development and three lines in the entire series? Oh yeah, I guess you would. Talisa had enough going on that she was unique, and far more interesting than Jeyne Plot Device. Who I don't dislike, by the way (I am completely indifferent to her), I just don't get why people act like she is a superior character when she has the thinnest of the thin character.

I can pretty much guarantee that I would hate your TV adaptation of the Red Wedding.

Haha you are not very familiar with actors if you think they ONLY do what is in the script and never try to add their own little flourishes. If the script says "Barristan has a glass of wine and shrugs in response to Dany's question," it just means "he had a drink of wine and responded nonverbally to Dany's question." The actor's expression and mannerisms (chosen by the actor or possibly influenced by the director) are what are indicating to you that he is drunk (personally I don't think he is).

It didn't really seem that way to me, but I can understand why someone might interpret his behavior as being drunk. If he was MEANT to be drunk (I think if that were the case it would have been more explicitly stated - maybe the actor's choice?) then yeah that would be weird. But still...why does it bother you SO MUCH that you are "so bitter" about it?

Why does it bother you SO MUCH?

He seemed irritated that he was left out, to me.

I think they should have kept Grey Wind's death like it was in the books; we don't see it happen, and a character tells another character about it in the next episode.

Agreed, and as I said before I think it works better with the theme of the Red Wedding as a betrayal and a massacre, and not as a last stand.

I think Grey Wind's death in the show is more consistent with the overall theme of the Red Wedding, that it's a massacre and not a battle, with the Starks killed like fish in a barrel. Having Grey Wind go out in a blaze of glory (which didn't actually happen in the Red Wedding in the books, we only heard about it later from another character, if I remember correctly) would have run counter to that. I think it was entirely appropriate, the way it was depicted on the show.

LOL!