WolfOfWinter

Daenerys' arc really is a good illustration of how far a character can go and still have people defend her actions because she's charismatic and says all the right stuff, even when it contradicts her own actions. Cersei kills hundreds of people? Kill the evil bitch. Dany nukes a million people? Meh, she must have a morally sound reason, and btw nuking Hiroshima was also cool and so Dany must be cool too. Yikes.

Oh how I wish the remaining books will be released one day. Watching Daenerys fail to win over Westeros and succumbing to tyranny will be glorious. There are so many things I wish to experience twice (and some for the first time). Please just give me a Stark reunion, George.

It means that those of us who never bought into Dany's BS will have a mighty fine time if the books are ever released.

I don't believe he's the real deal either, but I think it's one of the things Martin will keep ambiguous for characters as well as the readers. And ultimately, I foresee this being a dilemma of whether his legitimacy matters or not from a moral standpoint if he can manage to restore peace in Westeros and be a competent king to the people. The more I think about it the more I'm convinced that the books will also have Cersei and Euron on the Iron Throne during the Long Night. I don't have any deep analysis to prove it, but Euron's presence was so insignificant that I'm convinced he was only kept in the story because of his future alliance with Cersei in the books. I can totally see Euron getting a dragon and destroying the Wall before ditching everyone to deal with the mess while he takes advantage of the situation. The way I think it'll go is that Dany will kill fAegon and become the most hated person in Westeros. This will lead her to join the fight against the Others, both because it's the right thing to do and because of good PR. Except the Westerosi will continue to hate her because of her reputation as a kinslayer as well everything else she'll be associated with. Meanwhile, during what was meant to be her positive PR campaign, Euron and Cersei will take over KL. It will be a massive setback to what should have been a successful campaign, and she won't even have gained the love of her allies. Feeling like she's sacrificed so much for nothing in return except for a reluctant alliance with the North/Vale/Riverlands, she'll torch KL to the ground. Basically, I think Dany's journey in the last season was very true to what book!Dany's will be. It's the lack of Aegon and the destructiveness of her invasion, as well as the implication that she stabilized SB, that takes so much away from the story.

Dany will win the battle but Aegon will win the war. Killing him will destroy Dany, emotionally as well as politically. Jaime's still loathed 18 years later for killing a mad king. Dany killing a beloved and competent king who's also her nephew after supposedly killing her own brother and husband? She's so fucked. The show has proven more than anything how important fAegon is to the overall story.

The Northerners' fight for independence is a lot more bloody and drawn out in the books. And it's going to sting a lot more once Dany, whose Dothraki and dragons won't be as mellow in the books, flies in and forces them to kneel/Jon gives up sovereignty in the books. That's more than enough reason for the other Starks and the North to stand up against Dany. That's not even the most important part. We learn in Arianne's chapter that rumors about Dany killing her own brother to usurp him and then her husband for the same reason are spreading from Essos to Westeros. And now she's being set up to kill Aegon, her own nephew as well as her rightful king. Kingslayers and kinslayers are already loathed in Westeros, so why would the North and the Vale ever be comfortable kneeling to a person who's an oathbreaker extraordinaire? Moreover, how do you think the Starks are going to feel once they find out that their own brother is also Dany's nephew after she's already killed another nephew? It's absolutely going to cause a rift between them even if they were otherwise amenable to each other. Pitting the Starks against Dany, both sides who for the longest time have been considered the heroes, is a very Martin thing to do; especially after pitting Dany against one-dimensional villains for so long.

I have never bought into the "Dany is mad" theory, and I still don't, but Dany IS straight up delusional. She seems to genuinely believe that she's in Westeros to end the wheel of oppression or what the fuck ever, while initially keeping a king prisoner because his people chose him to lead them, refusing t aid the North against a mythical threat for not bending the knee to her and burning people alive for not pledging to her. She buys into her own propaganda and is incapable of seeing the difference between what she's saying and what she's doing. She is unstable as shown on the show, just not the way her father was. Ellaria and the Sand Snakes were traitors, Yara and Theon are traitors, Olenna became a traitor the day she poisoned Joffrey at his own wedding. For a woman who goes on about her birthright, she sure as shit doesn't care about the right of succession unless she benefits from it. Dany is a hypocrite through and through.

Get ready for endless "that's not how annulments work/Rhaegar was removed from the line of succession/Dany is still the rightful ruler" discussions, despite the show literally spelling it out for us.

My bet, they're keeping Jon's parentage a secret until after Jon and Dany get close to create drama next season.

None of the Northerners are rallying around the Starks except a few hundred men because they prefer the rule of a psychopathic kinslayer who just killed his own father and brother, flayed the Cerwyns and threatened the Night's Watch. Before that they prefered the rule of a man who collaborated with the Lannisters and killed their kin and soldiers at a wedding. From a purely pragmatic standpoint, this seems like one of the worst decisions anyone's made on the show, especially taking into account that they could easily defeat the Boltons if they untied against them. The Starks and the Northerners have been ruined so others can shine. The Umbers refused to aid the NW when they called for help when the Wall was under attack, but handed their King to the Boltons because Rickon's bastard brother, who doesn't represent House Stark and who he hasn't spoken to since he was six, let the wildlings pass as a last measure. Jon and Sansa were both made incompetent when faced with a 10-year-old kid so Davos could save the day. The Glovers outright refused to join the Starks even though the lord's brother was killed at the Twins. The wildlings had to be convinced by Tormund to join Jon when he literally died for them and proved himself time and again. The Starks got fucked big time so the Valesmen can have a significant role in the battle. No doubt Rickon will die as well because the Starks suffering is practically iconic now. This is absolutely cheating to have the villains win, even if it's momentarily.

Looks like The North Forgot. Not just their fealty to the Starks but that their family members and men were killed at the Twins. They're making the Northerners look like assholes so LF can save the day. "The reason bad things happen on GoT has changed. GoT has gone from being a show that wouldn't cheat to help the good guys to a show that will cheat to help the bad guys." Literally everyone is show wants revenge except the Northerners. Huh.

Everyone knew she was going to get the Dothraki. Some of us just expected it'd be a bit harder than just walking around calmly and knocking over braziers while no one stops her.. And Jorah and Daario just strolling into Vaes Dothrak a la Jaime and Bronn last season...

So Dany is the only Targaryen who's fireproof? And people call Jon a special snowflake

They're bowing to her, not to Hizdahr. Hizdahr's terrified, as she observes, but he Valar Morghules his way out of the situation because he was willing to meet his death head on, which made her second guess herself? There's no indication that she comes to the realization that he's the Harpy. Nothing about that scene suggested Hizdahr would have a modicum of power after their marriage. He was shocked and I have a very hard time imagining that he sees the current situation as a way for him to shine and gain power. He was utterly helpless in that scene; the guy was even on his frickin knees. I doubt Dany's thinking that far. it appears Dany's not even thinking at all. It just seems like D&D are checking off all major events from aFfC/aDwD and nevermind that some of these don't fit into the story they've created. Seriously. Dany feeds a random guy to her dragons to avenge Barry. She then goes on to mention how Barry advised mercy and compassion, completely ignoring that she just did the opposite. Missandei kisses her ass and tells her to only listen to herself. Dany decides to marry Hizdahr because? Why? She just burned one of the nobility alive. They're not gonna view the marriage as her making an attempt to make peace with them or choosing neutrality. She already burned that bridge. And going by the trailer, no one's buying into it.

I wrote this in the rant and rave thread, but I kinda need to post it here too, because it's really bothering me: I'm very uncomfortable by Dany's "proposal" to Hizdahr. The guy goes from fearing for his life and genuinely believing he's about to be eaten alive by her dragons to being told he has no choice but to marry her. If they sleep together, I won't be able to see it as anything but marital rape, because that dude is not willing. What they wanted to portray as an empowered moment on Dany's behalf turned into a very sketchy scene. There was nothing awesome about this for me. All I could think was, if that guy wasn't against Dany before then she's just given him several reasons to be. I felt genuinely sorry for him. This isn't even your regular forced marriage in Planetos taking into consideration that the guy's father was crucified by Dany too. What is even happening?

I'm glad Sansa's more outspoken this time around. She knows Roose won't buy it if she approaches the situation the same way she did in King's Landing, so why bother? LF's given her an impossible mission and she's aware of this.

There really should be no doubt that LF only cares about himself after this...

Does anyone else not buy that LF isn't aware of Ramsay's true nature?