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Everything posted by wolfmaid7

  1. I've never heard that one.But interesting idea. I think there is a difference.Its clear that her fires can be seen as "two way" I.e. Her seeing Bran and Bloodraven. The fact that in every instance she is trying to interpret what she sees or maybe hears isn't the issue. That being said I disagree that Mel is pretensive concerning "what" she can do.I don't see evidence that she has lied about her powers.If anything her POV doesn't reveal a lack of skill but humility. You see that play out where she internally questions what may be compared to what she says. So if she says she can speak to long dead kings and children not yet born.I don't doubt that.I doubt what "she" took away from her fires.I doubt her interpretation of what she heard or saw. Lastly,I am not speaking about Mel's state of being when I say " she likes being alive." My point is she knows Stannis is not the man to trifle with and less she ends up herself on the crispy side she convinced him she is powerful. Stannis doesn't believe he is this fabled hero.He believes to put the kingdom right is his duty by right. Mel is in nowhere Trump territory.Her visions are accurate her understanding of them...Not so.
  2. Yeah that massive eye sore was a total fraud. I am not to clear on that myself.I thought she was the one saying this really isn't about Westeros.War for the Dawn yada yada. But in the recesses of my mind somewhere I seem to recall her saying that Stannis is the rightful king in response to Jon.When trying to get the North to follow him and when Jon said a letter was sent to King Tommen. Snowy!!!! Wassssupppp??? Stannis seems the type to see what someone has to offer.He s Doesn't seem to believe in that AA thing.He seems to believe it is his duty.Maybe Mel went through Selyse to get to Stannis.
  3. I think there is something not clear,but tangible enough where different priests seem to have different dogs in the race. I don't have my books but if I recall Thoros was sent to convert Robert.Alas,Robert converted Thoros instead. And in the cave per the brother hood and Dondarrion. "Robert is slain,but his realm remains and we defend her." The consort king title still remains with the Baratheon line. Mel believes it's Stannis who by right the throne should pass through.He is the only one who is fighting to save the realm.Still think its not him but he has some part in this. Jon imo is the next horned god/horned lord.The horn he found,he gave it to Sam right? I like this.Very interesting take Stannis being tempered as if he himself is the sword.
  4. I was thinking it might be double entendre.Or it may not be.Somehow I think its both and that they are linked.That's for another discussion. I agree with you, I think her sight is accurate but the interpretation may be off. I am just intrigued on why she is fixated on Stannis.I think she saw him or she heard something that made her think it was him. Again I think she's off because she interpreted wrong,but she didn't just pull Stannis out of a hat.
  5. Your last point hit better than what I was trying to convey.Which is why I likened her seeing to how greenseers see through the Weirwoods So I guess the best way I can steer this is Melissandre seeing a possibility and trying to make that possibility among hundreds true.Thanks for clarification on the Children vs Babes.I was going from memory. But I don't think reading her fires is something she herself can manipulate to such accuracy where she controls what she sees or who comes in the flames.Its all based on who and what the LOL shows remember? She asked for Stannis and was shown something else..Snow or Jon Snow who knows. So to my mind if she's asking for Stannis and sees him alive somewhere anywhere she knows he made it.
  6. Hell,even I think she is a zealot and I she definitely is prone to misinterpreting.Also, way to prideful to admit the possibility of this in herself. We have a glimpse of how she sees things in her flame.What comes through really is a matter of interpretation. She may have spoken to a long dead king and have to make sense of what he said.She may have spoken with a little child and have to make sense of that. I think there was a quote from GRRM about her being on her own agenda when it comes to Stannis. But it would be nice to get more pig's from her.
  7. I know there's some razzle dazzle with Mel.No doubt about it.But her wording is a bit deliberate and uneccessary.As I said she could have said " I can speak to souls long dead,and not yet born."
  8. Not exactlyyyy.Her talking to a long dead king isn't going to tell her about future events. Plus,why Kings? Why not say I can talk to people long dead. Her statement about babes also seems deliberate.Why babes? What can a babe tell her that someone in their teens or older can't.Why not say talk to people not yet born? I'm thinking something like she does her fire scrying and through it sees a three year old.No conversation is going to truly happen beyond.Whose your parents or what's your name. A 2-5 yr old isn't really going to grasp who won what battle.
  9. Agreed.Whatever the signs are,but you are correct.Flames aren't her only source of information. She can see- per her "through" earth and stone as well.And see the years and seasons flicker past.. So she kinda does see like GSs see but unlike them her medium isn't the Weirwoods. It also seems she doesn't get complete pictures just "flickers" that she to may have to interpret.
  10. That may be so but something must fuel that.She didn't just pull Stannis name out of a hat and say "thou art the man."
  11. @Voice Nice thread.
  12. Is she pretending though? Vs does she believe he is based on info she has and in her mind she's just helping him out. Note, I am not arguing if he is (for the record I don't believe he is).The point of this is Melissandre' s motive to push that he is so hard. She is putting herself in dangerous situations for a person she "knows" is a fraud? I don't buy that.She didn't just do this on a whim.Hence it comes back to what makes her believe it is Stannis? Mel may be a lot of things but she likes being alive.And from her internal monologue she actually believes Stannis his the LOL's chosen. So was it something she gleaned (correct or not) from her flames.Did she have a pow wow with a dead king or two.Also,its interesting she says babes not yet born.That in itself is peculiar. I don't think GRRM was being poetic.
  13. I get and agree with all of you in some regard;I'll explain.But first,we all agree that Mel could be prone to misinterpretation. She has even acknowledges that this is where the problem for Red Priests lay. But what she mentioned isn't about interpretation.I believe it may be a factor after. She is saying that she could do these things;talk to long dead kings and babies not yet born. This isn't a confession that she has. Mel however has never lied though ..Which is what she would be doing if she couldn't do this. To quote you @JNR what she sees is accurate.Her interpretation may be wrong. This of course doesn't preclude that she may have spoken to a King long dead or a child not yet born.What she got from such conversations may be wrong because she interpreted so. It occurred to me something like this may have been the reason why she thinks so strongly about Stannis.This has been kind of a mystery.Why she thinks Stannis,Stannis is TPTWP.
  14. This is a bit off topic ,but I wanted to know what you guys think. I can't remember what book-SOW or DWD where Melissandre tells Jon something like: I can talk to kings long dead and babies not yet born. Do you guys think she did either one at some point?
  15. I agree with FFR on this one.But will add to it.I think this wildly accepted view is a case of trying to make elements fit a theory. Looking at it as it is instead of Jon is Lyanna son so the blue rose must be him we miss it. In the story of Bael ,the rose is a replacement for the maiden' s virginity. Aka "deflowering" that is what he took. We do not know if Bael took the Stark girl anywhere.In fact that was something Ygritte's story alluded to. When Jon said "He brought them back" her response was "they were in the crypt all this time." He "tapped it" she felt ashamed having lost her maiden head so she bolted. But he was not directly responsible for her going missing. I think we are looking for a young woman who will flower on the Wall and that being significant somehow coming out of a bad time on the wall to affect it somehow. I always thought and still believe it will be Arya.But @LynnS said something about Shirren which peaked my interest.
  16. Actually,a correction the same things are said of the wights.Sam after Fist of the First Men asked that question. Indicating as you say that The Cold brought them. Shameless plug again but old heads know my Cold theory.New heads you can check link in my Sig for it.
  17. It could be he is an agent of BR,it certainly is possible.However, he strikes me as having more agency.Could be they are a scratching each other's back Being the uber Skinchanger BR is,he doesn't in truth need such an agent when he could wear someone else and accomplish the same.He could have taken over some weak and lost soul unfortunate to get lost .
  18. Another interesting tidbit...Let's say we believe CH's.He tried to pass the Wall before and realized he couldn't.Or he never tried because ......One things for certain."He knows" which is the interesting part,that the Wall isn't just a wall of ice and snow.Spells and such are woven into it.
  19. It is possible he could have given it only to Beric but that is neither here nor there. However,what's even more is Thoros affirmation that it wasn't him that raised Beric that is was R'hollor that did it not him. I have no magic, child. Only prayers. That first time, his lordship had a hole right through him and blood in his mouth, I knew there was no hope. So when his poor torn chest stopped moving, I gave him the good god's own kiss to send him on his way. I filled my mouth with fire and breathed the flames inside him, down his throat to lungs and heart and soul. The last kiss it is called, and many a time I saw the old priests bestow it on the Lord's servants as they died. I had given it a time or two myself, as all priests must. But never before had I felt a dead man shudder as the fire filled him, nor seen his eyes come open. It was not me who raised him, my lady. It was the Lord. R'hllor is not done with him yet. Life is warmth, and warmth is fire, and fire is God's and God's alone." Something even more interesting is this statement by Thoros. "The Lord of Light has woken in my heart. Many powers long asleep are waking, and there are forces moving in the land. I have seen them in my flames." So,Thoros again may well have tapped into the powers that were asleep and now awake.But I agree with him when he says...It is not him but R'hollor(I would say again, nothing but the old powers of the land casting on the guise of the Red lot's god.The Ogs gave "life" to R'hollor.They made him manifest. So it wasn't Thoros, the old powers hijacked a R'holloist funerary ritual and brought Beric back.
  20. I don't think so BC.To reiterate what FreyFamily reunion said.Thoros would have been giving last rites to a bunch of men after that battle.Yet,Beric was the only one who rose.Pixie dust being selective? I don't think so. That reeks of intelligent design. This!
  21. Word!I second that request. Or Thoros provided cover for what was.Mummer's ford is in the Riverland's no? I have to disagree, intent is a lot in these things.All that ritual was,was a funerary rite.All he did was what Red priests have done thousands of time before;including Thoros.So if he done it before,other priest did it before and nothing like that happened.It ain't them and it ain't what they've been doing.
  22. That is a nice catch Lynn.Your right the only parallel I had seen was the Jon and Robert behavioral mirroring across the hall.But that was a cool catch. I won't say Ned is the the connective component because the same imagery appears with the Kindly man.I have said the underlining connection seems to be the Old gods who I believe are perpetrating aspects of the Red lot and the faceless men.....It is all the Old gods imo who have essentially hacked these religions with their magic. Their reach maybe a bit more far reaching because of where weir wood pieces end up. I don't believe either of them are special but what's going on in the world is.I mean specificslly a lot more keys(Dragons,direwolves,trees and crows) finding their locks(Dany and the Stark bunch).
  23. I have to say... 1.Bran 2.Mance
  24. I've been trying to get on here for like 2 days now. @Black Crow concerning Cold hands.Thistle's wightification kinda needs looking at.She was alive in bad shape but alive before she was killed by the temp.I think whereas she was able to resist a weaken V6 from taking her;she couldn't resist The Cold. What if Cold hands did,and was able to reclaim his body after an attempted wightification? As far as the Red lot goes we need to consider a couple of things. Raising the dead ain't there thing.What happened with Beric completely threw Thoros.He did a funerary ritual that they have done many times before.It was a send off not an intent to raise. Which brings me to the connections that the author chose to make. Faceless men,weirnet and red lot have one figure emerging and that figure looks awfully like the dead man with one eye and impaled by weirwood roots. A man behind a curtain is starting to look rather good.
  25. Word! That's a great way of putting it."Its seeing the Skinchanger within." Bran himself identifued V6 as a Skinchanger to. On the COTF and their link in all this,many discussions occurred on how much agency the greenseers have in all this? If true as the worldbook says about the greenseers being the Shamans and wise men of the COTF; then it opens up the possibility that the relationship dynamics may not be as we think. That question is opened to the thread on a whole. Manipulated hostage turnned sympathetic,or a more skilled manipulator taking advantage of the beliefs of COTF?