GallowsKnight

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  1. That's a strongly adhered to custom but not a hard law. GRRM said Robert could have been King, Lord of Storm's End and Dragonstone simultaneously. Arianne says if Myrcella was Queen, Tommen would still be Lord of Casterly Rock and Storm's End. Lord Butterwall had several castles before the first Blackfyre Rebellion. So someone could be Lord of the Vale and Lord of Dragonstone. They wouldn't be merged. Just they would just be wearing two hats granting them significant power. It's pretty straightforward in allegiance though given both swear to the King. But the King might strongly encourage them to split it between sons to avoid a power block. But for a generation or two the person who held both would be very powerful. After the split there would still be useful familial ties. But I have the feeling had Robert's reign actually gone longer without any succession crisis it would have heralded a move to a system similar to what we had, where noble houses of nations were greatly intertwined and people often had confusing distributions of lands and allegiances.
  2. I've always thought this. And I think it's a really good idea. Stannis whilst still in his prime seems unlikely to sire a male heir, he barely spends time with his wife. Jon Arryn would know this. So if Sweetrobin married Shireen he'd also be Lord-Protector of Dragonstone when Stannis dies. The Vale has plenty of troops and good defences, but it hasn't really had a major fleet since the Invasion. The Lord of the Vale (and his descendants) having Dragonstone and the Narrow Sea lords as a forward base of Naval operations would be pretty useful. That combined with a legitimate line to the throne in case they ever wanted to put forward a claim. It's not like JA is planning to overthrow Robert or anything. Just he of all people would know that things can change suddenly and dynasties and inheritance can go in different ways than anticipated. Firming up one's own house is always a good idea.
  3. Littlefinger doesn't need to be so gauche as to outright steal or embezzle to make himself rich as master of coin. He can sell appointments, collect favors for certain deals and ultimately when you wield the entire economic might of the Seven Kingdoms, you know when and where to invest your own coin to make best return of the market (no insider trading laws). Sleazy and unethical? Yes. Outright illegal/treason? No.
  4. True. But we don't know if Tarly might have supported Robert (instead of Stannis) over Mace Tyrell in other circumstances. Or they weren't sure which way he'd go and thought there might be a chance. Hindsight is always 20/20. Even if there's a 20% chance Tarly might turn that's useful to have. Edit: Sorry I missed the comments on the next page which handled this pretty neatly.
  5. 1. There might have been, but they might not have been keen or the dowry for Selyse might have bigger than usual 2. The position of a daughter/females in the family tree seems less important as they're usually at the back for inheritance, what you get is their breeding/family connection/goodwill. It might have been a favor to have her married off when she was a bit removed from the mainline. 3. They didn't support him when he had only 3,000 mean, a few islands and some ships. His cause seemed hopeless then. They were the first to jump ship as soon as Renly died. They also brought along other houses like Meadows, Crane, Fossoway etc. In a civil war where Robert Baratheon might have the forces of the Stormlands, Vale, North and Westerlands the Florents might be primed and ready to throw the Tyrells under the bus.
  6. Stannis was heir-presumptive, not heir-apparent. Meaning he was the de facto heir only until Robert has children, then he gets trumped by them, and their children and so on. It's still important, but that's a considerable difference there that would be obvious to most lords. Robert was young, lusty and known to be able to sire bastards. Only if a tragedy befalls Robert early does Stannis become King and who knows if the Kingdom holds up then anyway? Selyse was from a wealthy ancient house in a region that had formerly been enemies. It's a solid marriage and provides diplomatic and military advantages when dealing with the Tyrells. The Florents only have 2000 men (but thats - 2000 for Tyrell, +2000 for Baratheons = 4000 advantage), and if they defect to Robert, more houses might follow (Fossoways, Meadows etc).
  7. It's not just the Stormlords infantry that might have dubious loyalty. Stannis had a huge chunk of Reach lords and knights in his host, who would have infantry sworn to them marching under Mace Tyrell's banner. Renly took 20k mounted men to Storm's End, Loras rode away with only 4k. Leaving Stannis with 16k of the original force. Even if you're generous and say 1/3rd of that mounted force where Stormlords, that still leave ~9-10k reachmen with Stannis. We know that Reach houses like the Florents, (Red and Green) Fossoways, Mullendores, Meadows, Crane, Willum, and Varner switched sides. It's probably why they all switched/surrendered so quickly on Blackwater. But had Stannis managed to win the Blackwater and secured theirloyalties Mace would have to worry about them leaching back their men. I think in the scenario OP outlined Mace wound have just eaten humble pie, bend the knee and make concessions. Stannis might dislike it but he was pragmatic enough to pardon the lords under Renly. He needs the Reach to have any hope of securing the entire Seven Kingdoms.
  8. I always took it as Ned went to Bear Island to investigate the accusation/rumors. Jorah panicked and fled, confirming his guilt. Had Jorah stayed he might have been able to cover it up enough to get off, or failing that demand trial by combat and win proving his innocence or if it was very obvious/he confessed he could always ask to take the Black. Cracking the Boltons crimes would be harder because Roose and Ramsay would kill all the witnesses, threaten all their retainers who might have aided them and lie to Eddard's face. Ned has to basically take their word or declare outright war on his vassal.
  9. True. But there are example in previous conflicts to show some leniency to those that suppported Rebellion (I mean the Yronwoods rode for Blackfires every time and are still around) and a hesitancy to remove whole lines (they talk about removing the Lord of Casterly Rock and Storm's End during the Dance of Dragons and think it would set a dangerous precedence). With Robert dead if Stannis laid down arms and bent the knee Rhaegar might show lenience in an attempt to avoid further conflict. Rhaegar might also show some empathy in Stannis supporting his family, who were also a wronged party by his father (Aery demanded Robert's head for no reason). If Rhaegar wins the Trident and gains the Westerlands, he still has to deal with the Riverlands, North and Vale. Ideally by diplomacy rather than outright war. If Stannis is pardoned he can use this as an example to convince the surviving Starks, Tully, Arryns to surrender. If Stannis is treated poorly they might keep fighting. Even if he has to fight these Kingdoms, it's easier if he doesn't have to worry about rebellion in the Stormlands diverting his attention/forces. Or if Stannis or Renly can smuggle themselves out of Storm's End to get to Essos or the Vale or North. Then he has the threat of one of them or their heirs fomenting Rebellion years down the track like the Blackfires did. I'm not saying if I was him I'd just pardon Stannis and leave him there. I'd probably pardon him and make him and a small number his men come with the army to either negotiate or fight the Starks/Arryns/Tully. Keep your friends close and your former enemies closer. Then maybe keep him (and Renly) at court in Kings landing where I can keep an eye on him as a honored guest/defacto hostage.
  10. I don't think Stannis would necessarily support Rhaegar, but I could see him making a conditional surrender where he received a pardon and kept the Stormlands. Rhaegar might accept that to keep his ascension smooth like how we see Mace Tyrell keeping the Reach after Robert's Rebellions and how there was often leniency in previous civil wars to try and get peace established. With Robert dead he is the Lord of Storm's End, he has the full authority to negotiate for the Stormlands and cannot be accused of failing in Robert's charge to hold Storm's End when Robert is no more.
  11. Oh I thought this was going to be a versus thread, I popped into say the Ironborn would carve the free folk up like turducken.
  12. Well I ain't got time for a long discussion this close to Christmas on the other points. But I'll agree this is the truth. Had he just taken loot, hostages (the Stark boys, Freys and Reeds), burnt down the castle and booked it home, Theon would have stepped into history as one of the greatest living Ironborn and been a shoe-in for King again.
  13. Here for this Lothar Brune is wildly under-appreciated in and out of universe.
  14. I tended to think that Tywin's dream plan for the Seven Kingdoms went a bit like this; Joffrey- King/Crownlands Tommen - Lord of the Stormlands Jaime - Lord of the West Cersei - married to the Lord of the Reach Wyllas and having his children Tyrion - Lord of the North through Sansa Myrcella - Married to a Dornish prince Gemma Lannister - Married to Lord of Riverun/Riverlands Lancel Lannister - Lord of Darry/Riverlands Basically Lannister blood ruling 3 other major kingdoms (Reach, Stormlands, North), his true line ruling Casterly Rock and the West. Lannisters having major influence in the Riverlands and some influence in Dorne. I imagine if he could he would have married Myrcella to Sweetrobin in the Vale instead to get some influence there. It all fell to pieces bit by bit, but I think that was the master plan.
  15. He only had one ship silence until he won the Kingsmoot. But he could always still turn up and murder his way to the top of the Iron Throne. So many variables. Yeah you could end up with 4 kingdoms. If Aegon gets Dorne and manages to beat Renly/Stannis with loyalist support. I agree the Red Viper is a much better option to send to meet Daenarys. He's world-experienced and probably would go well seducing her (look at her types really?).