Jon Targaryen

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About Jon Targaryen

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    Crouching Direwolf, Hidden Dragon
  • Birthday 06/01/1981

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  1. Dragon sighting at Winterfell?!?

    No, I have not read Garth Nix but he is a Guest of Honor at the World Fantasy Convention this year so I may read one of his books if I decide to go to World Fantasy and meet him. I had forgotten who the GoH was and your reference jogged my memory so thanks for that. Dany's dragon eggs came from Asshai; Dany did not visit Asshai. A theory to explain Bran's vision is that there are more dragon eggs in Asshai "stirring", waiting to be awoken with king's blood and sacrifice.
  2. Dragon sighting at Winterfell?!?

    Honestly, I was just using your point (Jon's Valyrian blood making dragon "use" of some kind easier) to suit my own argument. I think it's possible and perhaps even likely that Jon will be leading the ground forces and not ride a dragon at all except maybe in hit and run skirmishes. So my choice for dragon riders in a typical pitched battle would be Dany, Tyrion and Bran (through skinchanging). All have abilities pertaining to or connections with dragons and all have physical limitations that would be tend to place them as dragon riders instead of typical combat participants.
  3. Dragon sighting at Winterfell?!?

    Or it could make perfect sense that Jon would ride a dragon since he is able to do that (this assumes Rhaegar is his father) and a powerful skinchanger would skinchange the third dragon.
  4. Dragon sighting at Winterfell?!?

    Jon may only be a warg and that is the limit of his skinchanging ability. We know Bran can go skinchange more than just Summer.
  5. Dragon sighting at Winterfell?!?

    I think warging ability would have more to do with warging a dragon than being of Valyrian descent. Valyrian descent might help in controlling/taming/riding a dragon but imo the best warger would be the one most likely to warg a dragon. Note: I kept up the use of the word "warg" but I suppose it would really be "skinchanging" a dragon as warging applies to wolves.
  6. Dragon sighting at Winterfell?!?

    I think Bran is probably the most likely to warg a dragon and I am 99% certain a dragon warging will happen. So I just thought it was foreshadowing. If this dragon doesn't make an appearance to someone by the end of ADWD, it is very unlikely it exists imo.
  7. RIP EHK

    My condolences to you, Chris. It was a pleasure to see EHK pissed off about something. As stated earlier, it is rare to see someone so angry and yet so convincing and eloquent. He was one of the board people I implicitly trusted when it came to movies and TV and his criticisms on entertainment we had both watched were always fun to read. July 10th will be eight months with no nicotine for me. But I'm tempted to smoke a big, fat Monte Cristo just in EHK's memory. :smoking: Probably not, but the thought occurred to me. While this is terrible news, EHK has left a legacy that I believe will be lasting. The 4th of July will have a brand-new meaning for members of this board. RIP Tom and thanks for being here! :cheers:
  8. It doesn't make any sense for Jon to be at the Tower of Joy

    A theoretical Jon's mom (with Ned as father) may have little to do with Lyanna. The thinking of Lyanna is present, yes. Others have made the point as to why the absence of thoughts of Rhaegar doesn't affect R+L=J.
  9. It doesn't make any sense for Jon to be at the Tower of Joy

    I'm probably not understanding but why should Ned think of Rhaegar when thinking of Lyanna if R+L=J, but not have to think of the mother if N+?=J. This is a fair point.
  10. It doesn't make any sense for Jon to be at the Tower of Joy

    I think the point is that Ned should think about Rhaegar when he thinks about Lyanna regardless of R+L=J. Rhaegar had a big bit to do with Lyanna's fate no matter what. However, he doesn't think about Rhaegar every time he thinks about Lyanna. It's already "strange." "Some Stark"+?=Jon (no R+L) will not evade the problem and R+L=J won't create a problem.
  11. It doesn't make any sense for Jon to be at the Tower of Joy

    OIL has a great point about the "lack of Rhaegar obsession" dilemma. I wouldn't go that far or even close to it really. Robert says he kills Rhaegar every night in his sleep and that Rhaegar deserves to die many times. Ned has "nothing to say to that." Not an agreement or condemnation of Rhaegar but not a ringing endorsement or defense either. Ned thinks of Rhaegar very briefly as the guy who named the tower of joy. Ned remembers Rhaegar embarrassing his wife to give the laurel to Lyanna at Harrenhal. I don't detect much either way there either though on the face of it it would not speak well for Rhaegar. The best Ned can think for Rhaegar is that he would not frequent brothels. Lots of guys don't go to brothels but they aren't necessarily respected a great deal. Other people respected Rhaegar a great deal. Jorah, Barristan, to a lesser extent Jaime. Ned is not clear.
  12. It doesn't make any sense for Jon to be at the Tower of Joy

    Nah, probably not. It's a legitimate objection and the only thing I can think of is what you already mention, that any drive to claim the throne by Jon would be suicide and Ned doesn't want to give him the temptation, at least until he's older. But by agreeing to a career in the Watch, Ned is putting it out of bounds before Jon is of age to decide for himself. However, I still feel it's hoping against hope here that Ned didn't know or figure it out at the least. He had to ask, as we have, "why were all of Aerys' remaining Kingsguard here instead of at Dragonstone?" It would make the case stronger but Ned would have to be on good terms with Lord Dayne as well, seeing as how he was probably calling the shots, being Lord and all. Lord Dayne, presumably a Targaryen supporter, and Ned would have had to reach an agreement to raise Jon in hiding, instead of for the throne. Or maybe that was not necessary at that time. Either way, the Daynes would be a problem. If Jon is brought there with just Howland they could take the babe away. If Ned arrives to take Jon, they could keep Jon. So I guess it's a non-starter. Something worked in any case and it has to satisfy both theories. Oh well, good exercise. :) Some very tenuous speculation is that the tower of joy is on the northern side of the mountains of Dorne as Ned rides up to the tower and the KG have the mountains at their backs. With Ned coming from Storm’s End, that would fit. However, Ned could have easily wheeled about.
  13. It doesn't make any sense for Jon to be at the Tower of Joy

    A general observation. There seems to be two theories here. One, that Jon was at the tower of joy when Ned arrived. Two, that Jon was at Starfall. The problem with the first is that Ned would then have to travel into enemy territory with baby Jon accompanied by only Howland Reed. The problem with the second is that all three KG are still at the tower of joy when Ned arrives. Frankly, I don’t find explanations for either problem to be satisfactory. I expect there is something yet to be revealed that will help to explain whatever is the actual case. I agree that Ashara’s suicide stretches believability. I think the broken promise could be just to tell Jon who his bio parents were. It doesn’t have to mean lead a Targaryen restoration. But there is the risk Jon would desire that of course. SFDanny, If Jon is a legitimate son of Rhaegar as I believe, then I think Ned can figure that out. He is essentially scratching his head in the dialogue with the Kingsguard, “why are you guys here instead of with the royal family? Huh?†I’m confident he could put it together when he saw the baby. And Ned does not seem to think Jon is too young to take the vows when Jon takes them. Ned may have changed his mind though. Edward the Great, Ned thought there might be something he wanted to keep secret at the tower. He brought six men with him that he could trust, instead of a large contingent of his host. It does not follow Ned wanted to send Lyanna into hiding. He just wasn’t sure what he wanted to reveal yet. Regarding my confusion, you stated, And, I do not understand why Ned not bringing an “honor guard†with him indicates Ned wants to spirit away Lyanna into hiding. Perhaps you mean Ned did not bring some guard of pomp and circumstance to honor Lyanna? I do not see why that is necessary and do not think it is in Ned’s character. But it is probably something else. We do not know the exact location of the tower of joy.
  14. It doesn't make any sense for Jon to be at the Tower of Joy

    It is my opinion that it was probably more than that as Lyanna was pleading to Ned, crying out for Ned to promise her something. Then, when Ned gave his word, she visibly relaxed. A simple, "keep the child safe" would seem to be taken for granted and would not warrant relief on Lyanna's part when Ned agrees. However, I concede it very well could have happened like that because of Robert's hatred of the child's father; I just find it a little ... anti-climactic.
  15. It doesn't make any sense for Jon to be at the Tower of Joy

    Miriel, It is indeed risky but if had turned out that way ... well that's the way the cookie crumbles. Sansa pleaded as Lyanna had pleaded once, in other words for someone's life - Lyanna for baby Jon under the theory. Some hazier speculation is that Lyanna wanted Ned to ensure the safety of the babe, no one else could do it. So Jon wouldn't be going off to Braavos with Ashara. It truly might have been safer but Lyanna wants her brother to care for the child under the speculation. I'm sorry if I missed it already but is there some alternative you think Ned and Lyanna should have taken? Edward the Great, I think there is something you are not explicitly stating, assuming the reader knows it, that I am not grasping. The usual explanation for bringing six men with him is that Ned suspects some funny business went on and he will probably want to keep it secret. Shewoman, It appears the OP feels the same way now. I also agree that all three KG at the tower makes it implausible Jon is not there.