• Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited


About Karmarni

  • Rank
    Council Member

Profile Information

  • Gender
  • Location
    In the Land of Fate

Recent Profile Visitors

2,904 profile views
  1. “Do you remember where the heart is?” Sandor Clegane and Sansa Stark represent the ‘love song’ of A Song of Ice and Fire. Theirs is an enduring relationship that begins from Sansa’s first chapter. Their interactions highlight where the heart is. Do we remember, in such a sprawling story, that there is a heart to it? The songs and stories of future generations are being written by the characters in this generation. And I do believe that Sansa and Sandor will be glorified in a love song. Sansa’s favorite song and story is that of Florian and Jonquil. She liked the kissing stories best, says Bran. Sansa’s narrative is about marriage. From the beginning, to the latest (as of this posting) Alayne I sample The Winds of Winter chapter, it has been marriage as the important plot points for Sansa. Her betrothal to Joffrey brought her south; her forced marriage to Tyrion kept her in King’s Landing to be used by Littlefinger to facilitate killing Joffrey. Once in the clutches of Littlefinger, she is poised to be married by him to Harrold Hardyng. Will she marry him, submit yet again to a husband picked out for her by someone else? I doubt it - that blood and fire stained cloak in her cedar chest says otherwise. So does her singing a song that hopes for a "better day" and a "kinder way." Sansa, like Beauty (wonderfully outlined above by Le Cygne), will make her own choice in marriage. And I have no doubt there will be a third cloak of Sandor Clegane’s.
  2. Yeah, that about sums up that Sansa has learned nothing and the show is incredibly inconsistent at this point on characterization. Example: then she goes on to say she learned from Cersei. What has Cersei actually done in their time together except force her to write a letter to Robb outing herself as a traitor to her family, say love your children and there is power between a woman's legs? Cersei didn't help out with Joff or constrain him. Cersei kept Sansa as a prisoner and then watched as she was forced to marry Tyrion. Bet Cersei got a good laugh at that one. Cersei happily watched when Sansa was replaced by Margaery as queen-to-be. Cersei obviously enjoyed messing with Sansa'a expectations. So what, did Sansa learn about Cersei and her blow my enemies sky high scheme? She's respectful of that? Does she think Cersei would give away Houses to Johnny come lately loyalists at the expense of centuries old ties? Doubtful the show has that much depth and it wasn't conveyed at all. No, it was left open-ended. What's that mean on this show? It means that it's a blank to be filled in later. Cersei <---> Sansa. Not a parallel, but a conflict. What's Cersei think of Sansa? We found out, she calls her a whore. She thinks she killed Joff. She wants her dead. She told that to Littlefinger. What's LF know about? That letter she wrote to Robb. What's LF's method? Chaos, conflict, reap the benefits.
  3. My bets on Podrick. But plot holes in the show are the size of the Grand Canyon at this point.
  4. No, Jon and Sansa do not know Arya was with Sandor. The show has set up this reveal Sandor asked Arya in S03 to ask Sansa, if she ever saw her again, who came back for her (in the KL riots). Then in S06 the "a man" came up, show still withholding on Sansa. Then here in S07, LF mentions the Hound. Sansa reacts with her side glance and she still can't know. Why do the writers bring it up again? One, two, three - first time you might not notice, second time gets you wondering, third mention everyone should notice (classic story repetition) - so yeah, Sansa and Jon (and LF) have no idea. Arya is setup as the one to tell Sansa and
  5. The stories are all progressive. Built on who the characters are at the outset and the circumstances they face as they continue. To say that a character could have been this, or could have been that is like saying those circumstances never happened. To turn back the clock. And that won't and can't happen. Personally, I don't try to read into the story and try to assign how I think they should feel or think based on more than what I see written in the story. To do so leads to conjecture that GRRM plans all these things down to the very last detail. And I don't think he does. The story gets lost in the analysis. Sansa's thoughts on Loras are part of the hallmark of her naivete. They take up very, very little in the novel and expanding upon them is at the expense of the character who has been with her, in body or thought, from AGOT. Certainly the emphasis is on Sandor, not Loras. As for the ages, all that's water under the bridge. That's been done to death on these boards. And all I can say is, I don't use that for or against. GRRM shouldn't have made them so low if he was going to have them do the things they do/did. So the ages are no account to me. But he sure did marry her off to Tyrion to potentially be raped.
  6. That's a pretty extreme 'parallel' that you're drawing there, don't you think? Sandor would be Rorge if not for the Elder Brother 's therapy? Basing this on Sandor's own helm being stolen and hair color and disfigured face and reference to dogs? Does that have anything at all to do with Sandor's character that we've learned of throughout the story? I don't buy it. Sandor Clegane was never going to be the mass rapist that Rorge was. The stolen helm, Rorge's raping at Saltpans, this is all a plot mechanism for GRRM. It's not meant to say that since Sandor Clegane called himself a butcher, Septon Maribald said broken men turn bad, add Thoros' thoughts on the helm, stir, bake for an hour and Sandor is on his way to going full mad dog --- no, that's his brother. For saying that Sandor Clegane is a favorite character, well, that's a pretty harsh way of showing it.
  7. I DO think Rorge was "always bad". By that I mean from the beginning of the story. Backstory only counts for me when given within the actual story, the author's words as written. So Rorge is 'bad' from the get-go. My statement about overplay - really, it's meant to address the tendency to bring psychoanalysis, affective and behavioral science to literature. And GRRM is not James Joyce, he's a fantasy novel writer. Simple, close reading is all that's required to understand the story. So Loras is the Knight of Flowers, the pretty knight who cheats in the tourney. He's duplicitous; he's hiding his relationship with Renley. Sansa likes him in AGOT, and yet he's not who he seems to be. She's learns that he's "not into her." And as for the topic, I think the relationship between Tyrion and Sandor has changed from one of mutual sarcastic ribbing, based on their respective positions in society in general and in their place within the Lannister's circle in particular, to one of pure hatred on Sandor's side, based on Tyrion's marriage to Sansa.
  8. Sandor is not a nihilist. I see him as a cynic. Nihilism goes too far for what I perceive as his ideology. Though I think he'd never think that way, as having an "ideology.' Cynic is a better fit. He was 'burned' by life, and his initial idealism is now tinged by that experience. His view of knights and so-called honorable men fits with that. He's not all out saying life is meaningless, and he acts in complete opposite of that, in fact. As for becoming Rorge, no. That's not an accurate reading of the text, in my opinion. Rorge is and was bad from the beginning of the story. It was only a matter of time before we saw what he was capable of. But applying a one-dimensional character's personality/events to another character, one who has more of a role in the story, is looking at it through a narrow lens. Sandor was not a rapist. He did not in any part of the story show that he intended to rape anyone, especially Sansa. I see posts that say this and I think they apply too much emphasis to what Sandor says to Arya. As if what he says there is the gods-honest truth and he is not full of regret, woe, and attempting to piss Arya off. That's what's important to me. Sandor's regret in regards to Sansa. What he says, and how he says it, has always be shaded with a dangerous element. Sandor lives a dangerous life, amidst Lannisters who have great regard for his brother, while he has none. He has learned to say the right thing, obviously. So to apply Sandor's words to his previous actions is a mistake. The actions themselves should be parsed by the words that are used at the time. And Sansa would know, she's the one who's telling us. And she believes he meant to kiss her. That he is dangerous is a given. But he has not shown himself by his actions to be dangerous to her. He has shown himself to be protective, to adore her. So when she says "please don't kill me", it's because this is a dangerous man that she has tried to understand, and failed, at some points in the story, to fully comprehend. It is later, lying awake in bed, thinking of him, that she understands. She understands his intent to take her with him, she understands his fear of fire and what he must have faced on the battlefield that night. She understands his well-disguised fear of his brother too. Of course, the outcome of all this is that Sansa has decided that Sandor did, indeed, kiss her that night. It is how she chooses to summarize the events in her head. That she wished she had gone with him, that she had kissed him, is what is being insinuated. I agree with @Le Cygne, overplaying Loras in Sansa's story is again looking at it with a narrow lens from the narrow end. That's out of proportion. Loras is the 'knightly' knight, the pretty boy (who isn't knightly or pretty anymore, or so says the story), but Sandor is the one she gives the 'kiss' to. He's the one she wishes for. Overplaying Loras results in failing to see the glamour, yes, glamour, that is Sandor Clegane's love for Sansa Stark.
  9. I think this is especially true. It isn't that women might do it better, that doesn't seem to be the point being made. It's that there needs to be an opportunity for women's view, the Female Gaze, to be seen. Outlander does a good job of that. GoT is all about the male gaze, and that's a problem for me. It's catering to a sexist view of women. Not having women involved, at every level, has resulted in a deficit of the female gaze. And it's not just showing a butt or penis, it's HOW you look at a man that shows he's desirable. GoT doesn't get that right at all. And women and men provide different views, experiences, that make a show or book or whatever art form, great. It's their je ne sais quoi that matters.
  10. Spoilers still for AR, but gee this book's been out forever . . . It's been awhile since I read Armageddon Rag, but I definitely do not think it's a copy and paste to ASOIAF. Author's don't do that kind of thing if they aspire to anything remotely considered 'good literature.' Nor did I get that it was about "saving the world from Doom." That I don't buy at all. That was Sandy's state of mind, and some of it was his drugged state, but he'd become disillusioned with his life. Sandy also bought that about being a "Sander" as in Alexander (Aside, it's here that we learn GRRM's intentions for Sandor Clegane as 'protector' btw. He outright stated what Sander as a name means in AR). AR is more an homage to the sixties, to counterculture, to Woodstock, and songs (there are a lot of them GRRM put in there), to the power of a rock-n-roll band, to growing older having experienced this. I also think the death of Hobbins is more akin to the Altamont 1969 killing of Meredith Hunter than anything else. The dream flashback to the 1968 Chicago Riots was the best sequence, in my opinion. And Armageddon Rag is, in fact, a song. One that when played, didn't create or prevent any kind of destruction or lack there of. Now, themes, symbolism, and sometimes structure, I do think authors' revisit these in their life's work. But I also don't think that Ice and Fire is the only thing that matters. What with such huge volumes and two more to come, there's a lot more that happens and is meaningful than just Ice meets Fire and what do we get? Well, for starters, we get Jon. Or Undead Jon, as it is. Because his death is kind of important and his resurrection is also. Also, I don't think the children of any of the characters are going to be special; for the most part the story we are reading is of the 'special children'. Not everything will be set in stone or explained. It will still be a fantasy world at the end and it will still be a feudal society at the end. Also, just got to mention that Sansa as Alayne doesn't think of Tyrion 'fondly.' She says in the Alayne TWoW gift chapter, That's not as fond as the unkiss in my opinion.
  11. Given the leaks,
  12. I don't see tragedy nor Sandor and Sansa walking away from the 'plot' (which the show has condensed to just the White Walkers/'The Game', but that's not the only plot in the books - by far!) either. GRRM is rather sneaky and he likes to play 'games' for all the characters. Sansa wanted to marry a Prince, be a queen, have Joff's blonde-haired children and live in the South. None of that is going to happen and she's going to be 'happier' for it. That's the piquant irony of her story. She's the one who is a "good girl", who "always remembers her courtesy." I personally think she's not going to be "good" (and that's such a limited word anyway) since she will kill, has shown she'd want to with Joff, to begin with (and of course Ramsay on the show), and I think she may shed some of that courtesy that she holds on to (and isn't a noble Lady currently in the novels). I think "little bird" is not only the Hound's nickname for her. The little birds in the novels and the show are Varys' (and Qyburn's) spies. They are the secret spy network who also have been shown to kill. And Sansa as a 'secret spy' who knows plenty of secrets about the other characters, that's a possible plot point that ironically could be met.
  13. I don't think actors getting tattoos together means that either Stark sister dies. That's reading a lot into a shared tattoo. I think both sisters make it through Season 7. I do not think Sansa has a parallel historical figure and that is what is mapped out for her. If that was the case, then GRRM should've dumped the dragons, direwolves, ravens and magic and just wrote an historical novel. He didn't. There isn't some formula that means the reader applies some presumed historical counterpart and that's how this fictional fantasy character ends up. That's not even giving the author his due, his own story to tell as he sees fit. Dany is the "more beautiful" queen, imo. Sansa has not yet, books or show, been shown to be getting an education in how to rule. She isn't very accomplished at politics either, as some would suggest. Those characters are Dany and Jon though. They are the ones who've had their own little "starter kingdoms." But I don't think Sansa is unimportant. The show has certainly muddied the waters on her though, especially with their "bold departure." What does she want? In the show, revenge. But that's not Sansa of the novels. In them, she wants to be loved for herself. Only one character has been built up through four novels as that character - Sandor Clegane.
  14. I find it interesting that the Northern storyline is more or less locked down. We have some info about Littlefinger, about Sansa and her 'power' trip and about Tormund somehow (being asked?) and getting to Eastwatch. We have info Arya and Bran will be there. Perhaps the storyboards (because I'm 95% sure that's what this was) for the Northern storyline were given to a different creator. I don't know why the Littlefinger/Arya/Sansa part would be separate, but there sure must be something more going on there than what this leaker has given. And perhaps he made up the Northern parts just to be 'edgy'. Were these in the original (not yet added to, or PM'd about) leaks? I'm assuming that Brienne returns to the North, especially if it's Jaime riding out on a horse alone, headed that way at the end. Tormund, Sandor and Gendry are the part of the Stark storyline, so it might make sense to have someone return to fetch Gendry from Eastwatch. I don't believe that there can be much of a story there. I do think this is part of the Eastwatch set. http://watchersonthewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/snowy-house.jpg
  15. I'm not going to roll over and play dead. My opinion, opinion!, counts too. I'm also decently successful, happy, and not a miserable person. I really love the book series or I wouldn't waste my time here. I watch the show because I want to; I'm not a masochist either. The book series isn't finished and the show will finish first. Like it or not, this is how I might see bits of what the ending might be. And this ending, the show ending, will be the one the masses know and remember. So I want to see it. I wished for a truer adaptation. If that makes me fall in the book snob category, I accept it. I'm a reader, one of 25+ years, and that won't change. Now, positively, I'm not surprised by the idea of a wight dragon, given The Ice Dragon. I'm interested in how that plays out and what it might look like. I wish we had more info for the Northern storylines, and perhaps we'll get that in the next week. If Bran is having his green dreams, then shouldn't there be flashbacks or, just as interesting, flashforwards? It would be cool if some of those flashforwards were actually changed by present day actions, giving an aura of suspense. I would like that.