teej6

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About teej6

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  1. You can cherry pick the verbs/adverbs I used in my posts and make it seem as if I was dictating this or that. But again, that is not what I was attempting to do. If my words gave you the impression that I was trying to dictate what people should discuss on this forum, then that was not my intent. My whole argument was that if people want to have a reasonable discussion on public forums such as this and be taken seriously, then they must be willing to provide arguments based on the text to make their case. Or else, they are open to redicule and criticism.
  2. Yes, I agreee hate is a strong word so I’d rather use dislike. As to your example about disliking or not identifying with a fictional character that is perfectly normal behaviour. Most of us like fictional characters we can identify or at least empathize with. The issue I was raising is that in a public discussion forums such as this when you put your views across, it’s best you substantiate those views with arguments based on the story and character. If not, people are inclined to not take you seriously and discount your views even if they have merit. Your views may depend on you identifying or not with the character but if you are discussing it with random people on the internet you have to be prepared to provide a somewhat objective argument for your views. You are right, the world and people’s perceptions have changed since GRRM published AGOT. I feel that the people who initially read his books were the hardcore fantasy fiction fans but not so anymore. I can easily see the casual reader skipping chapters he/she finds boring or chapters of characters they dislike. And I only experienced the tail end of some of the discussions between some of the early posters on this forum. It was a real treat to read some of these threads — even in instances I didn’t share their views — since these posters debated the characters and story like one would do in a book club. The extent of the knowledge on mythology, history and such some of these posters had was truly amazing. No, I don’t believe Twitter existed in 1996
  3. I agree with most of what you said, especially on today’s culture of people stating their opinion (in most cases expert opinion) on things they have no clue about. What I liked about this forum in the past (most of those posters seldom post anymore) is that people analyzed the text and had proper debates on their interpretation of the text. So when a thread was started, the OP usually took the effort to lay out their arguments and make a case for it. These days, most times, it’s just blanket statements based purely on personal views. And yes, you are right about the wtf statements/arguments people make but I’d still take that than none at all. There might be something honest about openly declaring one’s hatred for a character because of personal bias and not resorting to distorting the text to suit one’s views but then you can’t have a debate with such people as there is no point in discussing the text. On the other hand, if they quote the text, you may not convince them but at least you can call them out on the BS they are espousing. Most such posters stop debating when they can’t validate their views based on the text.
  4. I never said it was my right to determine what is proper discussion on this forum. Please don’t put words in my mouth. My argument was simply that people should provide arguments to why they feel this way or that to be taken seriously. I said this is a forum to discuss the ASOIAF books and things associated with it to your ridiculous argument that people can post views without textual basis because they have an opinion on it and not expect to get criticized for it. If a poster read the first Arya chapter and did not like her rebellious nature and then did not read anymore Arya chapters and still infers/refers to her as boring, then I think that is BS. And I have every right to state that. Before you go concluding that this what I am stating about the OP, it is not. As you brought up the topic of free speech, it’s funny you falsely accuse me of dictating what is acceptable discussion on this forum and then state that I must avoid or ignore any discussion I find useless. Who are you to dictate what I must or musn’t comment on? If I find a thread lacks merit, it is perfectly within my right to say so.
  5. Now I see your point and I must differ. I’d rather people base their views on their interpretation of the text than personal taste. Then, what is the point of the books? GRRM has written his characters in a way that is open to differing interpretations and therefore I may find Jamie’s redemption arc not convincing enough based on my interpretation of the text (and agreed to some extent my personal bias) but another reader may find Jamie a tragic hero. In this case if the person provided arguments as to why they think Jamie is a tragic hero, I may still disagree with the person but I will understand/respect the person’s views.
  6. I meant that I do understand that people’s views on characters will depend on their personal biases to some extent but that should not solely dictate their interpretation of a character from the books. And when a poster makes a blanket statement like so and so character is boring, they should provide arguments from the text to back this view of theirs. Or else, it turns out to be just personal bias and not rooted in anything they read/interpreted from the books. As to my point about the forum, the forum is meant to debate/discuss interpretations of characters from the books and the storylines based on the text of said books and not just based on personal biases or likes/dislikes.
  7. Whether Arya’s Essos plot is central to the main story is not the point. The point is basing your views on something related to the text and making those arguments in a discussion thread such as this. I or posters like me need not agree with the OP’s opinion even if he/she provides textual basis for their views but at least I can understand/appreciate the OP’s point of view then. Besides one of the above poster used the word “opinion” not me. In forums such as this, we are not debating/discussing people’s opinions, rather we are discussing people’s interpretations of the series’ character/storylines based on the text. It should be the text that forms the basis for these views. Now the OP may very well be forming his/her views based on the text but he/she has not provided any arguments from the books themselves to show why he/she considers Arya boring. If that was the case, I would be debating those specific arguments (based on the text) with the OP and not discounting his/her thread as another hate thread.
  8. Sorry I must disagree. This is a forum to discuss the books (or the show) and not to discuss people’s personal opinions or biases. I do agree that people’s like/dislike or interest in a character will to some extend be based on personal biases but that does not mean one should negate the text, which the characters are based on. So when a poster argues that Jon (fill in the blank with any other character) is evil because that’s what they think based on their opinion and with no textual basis, then the poster is not here for a debate/discussion but just to ram their biased views on others.
  9. Arya definitely has issues. IIRC, GRRM has compared her arc to that of a child soldier. In Arya’s case, I don’t think she’s fully gone the way of a mindless killing machine. The killing you mentioned (which btw is from a sample chapter and should probably be hidden) is motivated by her anger/hate of the said character based on his past actions. So Arya is motivated in her actions by emotions seen in a sane person. One may disagree with Arya’s right to act as judge and executioner, but she’s making her choice based on her judgement of the character’s past deeds and her hatred of the man not on a whim or for no reason at all, which would be the case if she were mentally ill.
  10. It can be an opinion, but an opinion based on certain facts from the text. I would understand and appreciate the OP’s views or opinion on Arya if he/she stated that Arya was boring because her Essos arc has nothing to do with the central plot or because the Facelessmen seem like a cult of assasins with no depth. And I definitely agree that different people have different views on characters, storylines, etc. But if you just state that a character is boring without any basis for your argument, then it seems like a hate thread to me. Even in the case of a fictional character, the facts of the character’s arc are available to the reader to make a strong or not so strong argument about why this character is boring or evil or something else. Just describing a nuanced (yes fictional) character with one adjective is not a discussion or argument. Again, just to be clear, the OP or anyone else can have differing opinions and I’m all for a lively debate and I also understand people’s personal biases are always brought into such debates, like/dislike of characters. But when you start a debate or discussion provide basis for your arguments. And in this case, the argument should be based on the text of the books not just personal opinions.
  11. Yeah they are so evidently the Jon/Stark haters. And they seem to appear in most threads these days just to have that additional hour in the day to hate on Jon or the Starks. And most of them (based on their posts) don’t seem to have read or comprehended the books fully. At least in the past, posters who disliked a character based their arguments on the text now it’s just based on “their opinion”.
  12. And this is the basis of your argument. Seriously read the books are then post on a book thread.
  13. And you should probably check up on your reading comprehension skills. When I referred to trolling, I meant the OP’s post not the poster you referenced. As to the poster you referenced, I’ve seen his/her arguments on why he/she hates a character or finds them bad/evil and this poster’s arguments are based on personal hate/vitriol and not arguments based on the text. Like I said, there are lots of posters on this forum who dislike a character or two or find them boring but their arguments are sound and based on the text as they seems to have actually read the books.
  14. Arya’s arc is not “all about murder”. You’d know that if you’ve read her chapters. There’s much more to Arya than murder. There’s themes about abandonment, love, hate, compassion, pain, suffering, empathy (Arya is probably one of the most empathic characters in the books), family, friends, resoucefulness, perseverance, being the outsider, revenge, etc. etc. The list goes on.
  15. It is trolling when a poster starts a thread stating they find a character boring and provide no basis or textual evidence for their “opinion” as you call it. It becomes just another hate thread. But then again, judging from your posts, just hating on a character and dissing on the character without any textual basis or rationale seems to be your modus operandi. Many posters (including myself) on this forum dislike certain characters or find their arcs boring but they back their views with arguments and textual evidence.