teej6

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About teej6

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  1. Yes, and I made that clear in my post that we do not know if Sansa telling Ned's plans to Cersei changed the outcome of events in anyway. And I was only responding to a poster who appeared to have his/her facts wrong about events in the book. Didn't mean to bring book canon into this thread.
  2. I agree if the threat of the WWs and Jon's absence is what concerns them then they have the right to be concerned and perhaps complain. But this is not shown or implied. What is shown is Glover stating he should have chosen Sansa without any context. And Jon made clear why he was heading south, for dragonglass and possibly dragons. He made it known that he thought these weapons were the only way that the North could hope to defeat the WWs. And as you say the alleyway meeting between Royce, Glover and LF is meant to cast doubt on their motives in the minds of the viewers. Of course, nothing will come of it but the showrunners mean to create tension and want the viewers like Arya to question Sansa's loyalty to Jon. As I've said before, they had nothing in way of a storyline in WF so they concorted this sibling rivalry and Jon surrounded by backstabbers plot. But the problem with this plot is that it is full of holes, the biggest of which is omniscient Bran who should just tell Arya that Sansa has a plan or tell Sansa (if she is tempted to betray Jon) not to. But of course they have him conveniently zoned out in front of a tree. I'm sure all this tension will be for naught and the showrunners will give the viewers the aha moment in the end but in the process they sacrifice logic and good storytelling.
  3. Sansa did betray Ned's trust in the books. She went to Cersei not as you say to make things better with Ned and Cersei instead she ran to Cersei so that she could get Cersei to tell Robert to command Ned from sending her back to WF and marry her to Joffrey. She betrayed Ned's secret of sending the girls away by ship before shit hit the fan. Did her revelation to Cersei change the outcome of how events unfolded? We don't know. Ned's stupidity of course far outweighs anything Sansa did. But in this instance, Sansa chose her desire to marry Joff and be his queen over her father's wishes and trust. It shows Sansa was selfish at that point in her life. Sansa was not stupid not to see how cruel Joff could be and that her father felt uneasy and threatened in KL. By ghe time Sansa went to Cersei, Ned had been attacked by Jamie and the Lannisters were fighting her mother's people at Riverrun. So Sansa wasn't fully oblivious to the enmity and distrust between Ned and the Lannisters, she just chose to ignore it to achieve her selfish desires. As the series progressed, we know Sansa's character has developed and grown tremendously. Now she longs for WF and family but this wasn't the case in AGOT. Some dismiss Sansa's actions in AGOT as that of a naive child but I don't see it that way. Yes, it was the actions of a child, but the actions of a self-centered child who knew full well what she was doing was wrong when she went to Cersei to complain about her father.
  4. You are right. My mistake, Royce said nothing but the truth. But what Glover said was almost treasonous. He was stating that perhaps Jon should not have been king, which is not the kind of thought a vassal should have, let alone state in public assembly. I still don't agree that Jon's absence gives Glover the right to question Jon's kingship. How are they feeling abandoned? Jon left Sansa in charge till his return, nothing unusual about that. Ned left Cat in charge when he went to KL indefinitely. Now if it was shown that the Lords were worried and discussing the imminent attack of the WWs and Jon, their commander, is absent to lead the defense/charge, then that makes sense. But none of that was shown or implied in the Sansa/Royce/Glover scene. It's shown that Sansa is dutiful and efficiently fulfilling her responsibilities, which is exactly what Jon intended when he left her in charge.
  5. Oh dear. Sandra is not a character in the books. It's a name some book fans call ShowSansa on this site to distinguish the character from BookSansa.
  6. Jon made the choice to go and left Sansa in charge and according to Glover and Royce she's doing a good job of ruling in Jon's stead. That should suffice instead they are talking about mutiny, which is what is perplexing. What Royce said was treason punishable by death and Arya had the right of it. It's just how and when she delivered it was royally mucked up. Now if they showed chaos and mayhem at WF with an absentee king, they may have the right to complain. But that's not what they are showing. Are we supposed to infer that they assembled to talk about Bran's vision of the NK and the army of the dead and that's why Glover and Royce are all frantic and talking about replacing Jon? If so, their fear of this imminent threat is understandable although I don't know how they expect Sansa to lead them in this war.
  7. Well then we are seeing very different shows. Sandra is the name us book readers call showSansa.
  8. Which part of it can't you see? The inconsistency in Sansa's character?
  9. It's not hating on Sansa rather hating on the Sandra D&D has conjured up. Sansa in the books is beginning to manipulate and understand people like LF and their motives well. She is consistent. ShowSansa is all over the place. I wouldn't mind if they showed her being hungry for power and acceptance as the showrunners intended if the character and her motives were fully fleshed out. Instead we have the split personality Sandra with her fifty shades of nonsense. And the fact that she has Creepyfinger tailing her around like a love sick puppy is not making Sandra any more likable. And I'm not buying the we need the Vale army nonsense. She has Royce singing her praises. If Sansa is such a player all she needs to do is turn Royce against LF, which should be a piece of cake for her. Instead we have him lurking around and looking creepy so that we can have some good old soapy tension in WF. Of course everyone and their mother knows that in the end, LF will get what's coming to him but till then we have sit through this teenage faux drama.
  10. But most viewers haven't got the point. All they see is two Lords wishing Sansa was queen and her magnanimously rejecting the offer and then crazy wild Arya attack Sansa with "you like nice things so you could feel better than everyone, and you should have chopped off heads". And I'm sorry I disagree with the Jon having been gone for awhile so mutiny is acceptable argument. Glover not too long ago swore to have Jon's back till the bitter end and all of a sudden he's like I made a mistake in not choosing you Sansa.
  11. Glover and Royce were talking about replacing Jon (KITN) with Sansa (QITN). That is treasonous, plain and simple and punishable by death. But instead of viewers getting this message, we have Arya's line of chopping off heads sounding crazy and vengeful. What would have worked better is if Arya called Glover and Royce out for their treasonous statement right in front of all assembled. I mean come on they had Sansa undermining Jon every second a couple of episodes ago. It would have been nice to see her get irritated with Arya's interference and in the process Arya could have put the fear of the old Gods in those treasonous old men. And you are right about it all being faux drama to keep the plot of WF going. They don't have Stannis, or the real Northerners (book Northmen are fiercely loyal) or the Boltons anymore so they give us Creepyfinger and his ridiculous scheme to get two teenage sisters fight/hate each other, while in the other room their omniscient brother is zoned out.
  12. Did I see it right? Davos tells Gendry not to mention his real name to anyone and the next second he introduces Gendry as Gendry to Tyrion.
  13. Who are these excellent writers? D&D? IIRC, the last couple of seasons have been mostly written by D&D (bad pussy calibre hacks) or Cogman. I thought Hill did an okay job with the material he had. He has to write in wight hunt, breaker of wheels Dany burning prisoners, teen sisters fight, Larry and Carol's tragic love story, Larry, Carol, and Bronn's plot armor, etc. I mean wight hunt could have been much worse. It's still bad of course but at least it's St. Tyrion (now bad strategist Tyrion) who suggested it. All D&D and the majority of viewers care about is Dragons, badass characters, soapish drama, and shock and awe.
  14. The problem is Sansa's temptation and Arya's love for Jon is not clear in the final product and most people are seeing it as stupidity on Arya's part. If they would have clearly shown Arya protecting Jon's interests instead of having her talk about chopping off heads and being pissed at Sansa for taking Ned and Cat's room it wound have been much better.
  15. In the leaked script for this episode, it does state that Sansa is tempted for a brief moment when Glover and Royce suggest she should be QITN and Arya picks up on it. In the final product this temptation is not seen on Sophie's face and Arya ends up looking like an idiot. Of course just like always, D&D's Sandra is one perplexing character.