Cas Stark

I'm in the minority, I thought overall this was a fairly good episode, much better than last week, I gave it an 8.

I don't see Loras as an asshole in the show but I do think it was a bad move to have him fall into bed with the first random guy who approached him and blab about fringed sleeves....Season 2 Loras who had to be practically forced to leave Renly's corpse and only did so with the promise of living for revenge seems to have been body snatched and replaced by Really Gay Loras Who Likes Casual Sex And Clothes, which is a shame.

I will agree that they should have upped the charisma quotient, but I don't remember Book Renly having any military ability etiher and I don't agree that Loras manipulated him. Book Renly had some stereotypical traits as well, namely his love of pageantry and of being the best, most richly dressed guy in Westeros. I did think they spent too little time building up his character, especially the fact of how he was able to relate to high and low born people and bring them in as his allies..but then I always thought Book Renly would have been a good king, better than Stannis, LOL.

What was insulting about Show Renly's portrayal? While I thought they missed an opportunity with his character having decided to show the homosexuality in a direct way, unlike in the books, I don't see what was insulting about his portrayal.

There is kind of a sense though that there is no one at Riverrun except the Starks and the Tullys and a couple of guards, there is no real sense that he has an army anywhere, which is kind of odd, what with him fighting a war and all, no shots of the army camped around Riverrun, no other lords in his war council, if there has even been a war council, maybe they're doing it to show him as isolated, but its a bit strange.

Well, no one gets hung, there is plenty of circumstantial evidence against the "teenage" soldier and the brotherhood is currently not under the leadership of Lady Stoneheart but of Lord Beric, so what was your point again?

To each his own I guess, I feel like he is acting in a different program than everyone else.

The fact that Renly and Loras were gay was only hinted at in the books, there was nothing close to the outright relationship depicted in the show. That said, once they decided to include the relationship and make Renly's homosexuality a part of the show I thought they missed a huge opportunity with his character to explore how that element of his nature helped him generate those 100,000 allies....how being an outsider on the inside allowed him to relate to people in a different way, to the highboard, to the peasants, etc., which was an aspect of Book Renly that never made it to the show and I thought this could have been a great addition to the depth of his TV characterization.

They aren't ransoming him back to his family though are they? They SOLD him to Red Dress against his will, so there is no parallel, and he wanted to join the brotherhood so there is a betrayal there as well.

In the book Beric knights them, they fight on behalf of the smallfolk, they try and hang war criminals from both sides, they attempt to mitigate the starvation and destruction caused by the war to the peasants, that's why when members die, new people join to replace them and why the smallfolk hide, protect and supply them. They ransom the highborn and use the money to help the peasants, not to enrich themselves. I think they call themselves the Brotherhood without Banners because they lost the King's banner when first ambushed by the Mountain.

A lot of straight men are described as beautiful in the series including Rheagar and Jamie, so Loras' looks I don't think is a reasonable criticism, neither is him coming from House Tyrell. I would say that the show having him prattle on about women's sleeves and fabric and having him fall into bed with a total stranger is veering into gay stereotyping and I'm not sure why they went there.

Not much of a brotherhood then is it? Wouldn't be inspiring much loyalty if they will sell each other out? Makes them nothing more than a band of outlaws.

They also tell her in the books that should something go wrong with the plan to ransom her back to her family that they ensure her safety, either by sending her back to Dondarien's castle or back to Lady Smallwood....there is no comparing it with letting Mel take Gendry by force all tied up in the back of a wagon.

Me, personally, I started to turn on him when he began to feel sorry for himself because Sansa wasn't attracted to him and then murdered his father and Shae, so it was before Dance but yes, at this point in the story I agree he was still likeable, even though of course lots of people continue to like him even at the end of Dance despite his numerous questionable activities. But, its stuff like making Robb marry 'because I want to' instead of 'because honor demanded it' or changing the rationale for Cat freeing Jamie to before she thinks Bran and RIckon are dead, making it REALLY stupid and REALLY treasonous, or as others have said, attributing Cersei's murders to Joff in the show.

I don't see the problem w/the torture either, after all of the violence so far in GOT and he gets his finger skinned...what is the big deal? As far as characters, I think people want them to be consistent with the books, not better, not worse, not dumber or smarter, not doing things that seem to be at odds with their character from the books.

Not much happens in his story until he gets to the children, but my idea would be that they could use his dreams to tell parts of the history, like tower of joy, lyanna stark stuff and/or prophecy/foreshadowing...it would keep to the three eyed crow vibe and give the segments some meaning. They also blew it when they didn't have the Reeds to the fire and ice loyalty oath, that could have been great TV, but, instead, nada.

That's my vote as well, but then I have a negative view of this season, I'm not seeing what others see, because Season 3 seems much more disjointed and flakey than Season 2 did, I've rewatched Season 2 episodes, some multiple times and I can barely stand to rewatch any episode of this season without hitting fast forward through at least a third of it.

It's either foreshadowing of the end of the series and that all but one of the Tyrell brothers dies that D&D have knowledge of, or pure stupidity, take your pick, I guess.

Well, that was a pretty bad episode, especially compared to last week. I gave it a 5. It was saved from pure oblivion by Thoros, LF climb monologue and Roose Bolton really hitting the quiet menance mark in his scene with Jamie and Brienne. Everything else was fairly well terrible, especially Osha and the Reeds, truly, truly cringe worthy.

By far the best episode of the season. I don't understand why it takes them so long to hit their stride, it isn't like they've got a lot of episdoes to spare. No complaints with this one.

You don't think they might throw in some subterfuge where Tyrion had them refuse the money and reveal it in a later episode? If not, I don't even know what to say, maybe they were all drunk at a party when they decided to put that dumb 7 minute scene in then if there isn't any subtext at all. Gods be good.

I don't agree w/all of those points, but with most of them. Continuity and logical flow of events..from last season to this seaon...and from scene to scene in each location has been REALLY choppy and flawed, and in some cases could have been fairly easily rectified with a couple of lines here or there or a slightly different take on events. I'm disappointed so far with this season, especially since according to D & D this is the year they've been waiting for. I expected a much smoother, better sense of the story than last season, and it feels even more disjointed so far.

She isn't really about "girrrl power" though, it seemed a very out of place modern thing for her to say, and unnecessarily heavy handed, as well, simplistic since Valar Morgulous "all men must die" means men in the universal meaning of humans not males.

That really has nothing to do with Kit's acting though.

What are they going to do with Kit whe he has to do more than try to look angsty? He has to actually deliver a lot of dialogue once Stannis and Mel get to the wall, how are they going to work around this? I have to say, my expectations of Season 3 were obviously too high after hearing that this was the season the producers had been waiting for. I'm not seeing it.