The Weirwoods Eyes

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About The Weirwoods Eyes

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    Must think of something Witty to say here.
  • Birthday 05/19/1981

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    North Yorkshire

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  1. Thank you very much. Always nice to meet a fellow BFC.
  2. As Blue eyed wolf has explained, yes it absolutely is a euphemism for sex and female orgasm. I'd be one of those vehement disagreement folks. You have to understand the symbolism of cloaks within ASOIAF. The writer specifically wrote them into the marriage ceremony, and they are used across all faiths in Westeros, and are such a strong and important symbolic emblem in their wedding ceremony that even when married under the auspices of R'hllor Alys Then receives her new husband's cloak. Sandor tosses his cloak to Sansa to provide her with protection from her public exposure, then she chooses to clutch it to her breasts and thinks how fine the rough spun wool feels, this symbolises Sandor himself. he is rough, she thinks she wants velvets, she is used to velvets and yet his rough-spun wool feels finer, it is after all useful to her, it is functioning to protect her dignity in a very vulnerable moment. And he also just protected her by stopping the beating. He's doing the very job a husband swears to do as he drapes his cloak over his bride. "I offer you the cloak of my protection." Then the second time he offers her his protection, "they're all afraid of me, I'd never let them hurt you." ( paraphrased.) and then as he leaves, even though he did not get the sexual relationship he wanted; she is too young still. He leaves her his cloak; the offer still stands. And after he has left she chooses to get under it of her own volition. The cloak itself here symbolises too the loss of virginity, the red blood on the white evokes the real world practice of hanging out the bedsheet following a marriage to show the brides virginity and prove the marriage consummated. The bells ring out symbolising again female orgasm and the announcement of a marriage; we ring bells following a wedding. Finally, she places the cloak in a cedar chest symbolising a hope chest a North American tradition where a young woman places special items away for a future marriage. If you honestly think she has no feelings towards him other than paralyzing fear then how do you explain the pivotal role he is playing in her sexual awakening? Her imagining his kiss, her cupping his face in anticipation of it? her dreaming of him in her marital bed? etc.
  3. Thank you for this Le Cygne, You have provided a really good summary of the way SanSan follows B&TB. Their story parallels it so much and given GRRM's well-publicised love of the story I'd say that the chances of this being a coincidence are zero! GRRM has also shown in his back catalogue that he is well versed in romantic fiction and the themes, symbolism, & motifs used in that genre. He's explored romance over and over in his work, so the fact that ASOIAF contains various romances too seems obvious. But of course, we all know how reluctant to acknowledge this many fans are. SanSan is imo one of the strongest romances in ASOIAF. The story flows throughout the entire book series and involves one of the most prominent POV characters. Which indicates that this is an important sub-story within the overall narrative. The idea of dismissing this seems absurd to me. I love how you point out the symbolism of the bloody white cloak, the fact that she dons his cloak herself pointing to the importance of autonomy in her story, and the cedar chest mirroring a hope chest. I know I mentioned this already but it struck me in one of his short stories that he includes a cedar hope chest, revealing that he absolutely knows the symbolism in having her place his cloak in one! The story he uses a hope chest in is also a sort of B&TB story, though as it is planned as a first in a series of shorts the beast fancies the beauty but she does not reciprocate, one is left wondering had he continued this tale would she have eventually fallen for our werewolf hero in this noirish take on the B&TB story? I think so. Sansa's story is so wrapped up in marriage, love, and autonomy. The logical conclusion for her is marriage to a lover of her own choosing. And right from the start, the Hound has been set up to be her choice.
  4. Thanks for tagging me in this @Blue-Eyed Wolf I have grown to really love your analysis on this topic. I'm a bit busy making the worlds most enormous pumpkin meringue pie and jacket potatoes and chill for bonfire night. But will endeavour to come back to this at some point in the next few days.
  5. just so I can find it later
  6. As always Lord Varys you twist and shimmy your way to misconstruing every word I say. This is why I no longer choose to engage with you. A good example of your slippery and unproductive methods is here in how you equate the Faith of the Seven with Catholicism and use that equation to insist your opinion is fact. But then deny that same equation when I use the Catholic model to suggest that children of a marriage declared unlawful retrospectively become bastards. When we know full well that in real-world history this is exactly what was done. Take Elizabeth Woodville's children with Edward IV. When their marriage was declared false due to Edwards previous pre-contract with another woman her children by him were made Illegitimate! This is how Richard III was able to take the English throne. Later when Henry VIII broke with Rome he used the same model of retrospective bastardy to delegitimise both Mary and Elizabeth in turn. As it suited him. BTW Not even the Iron Born view Salt wives as the same as Rock Wives, because these women are not wives at all but in fact are kidnap victims subjected to rape and abuse. And yes whilst at the time there was outcry and calls for denunciation of Alys as Maegors wife. The histories record her and all the Black Brides as genuinely his wives. Which as I have been pointing out to you for years now is what actually matters in the long term. As to say a polygamous marriage of an essosi man? Why are you telling me Ser that should an important wealthy and influential Essosi merchant or political figure come to visit Westeros on a trade deal with his harem of wives that the Nobility of Westeros would stand there and say Of course these women are all whores, I don't think so! That's it that is all you're getting from me. I hope you can see from the few examples of the massive flaws and twists in your arguments why I have decided to no longer engage with you. You don't discuss the text to work out the likely events to come or those past but hidden. You discuss to support your own predetermined ideas and have a total inability to admit when you are mistaken. An example being how you claimed that you never said Maegors marriages were not seen as legitimate in the historical accounts when I could pull a dozen old threads where you indeed claimed just that. You denied it till you were blue in the face as they say. despite TWOIAF seeming to support that fact. A fact that TSoTD has made abundantly clear. ArchMaester Glydayn talks not of concubines, false wives and whores but of Queens.
  7. As to the discussion of Dragons. One crucial factor which seems to be being forgotten about here is that the Dragons themselves have a great deal to do with who ends up riding them. The question of why Aegon never had a dragon prior to Quicksilver can easily be answered by assuming none of the 6 (8 after Maegor & Aenys's reconciliation) wanted him. Can someone remind me, this 6 then 8 are not including Ballerion and Vhagar? But hatchlings since Aegon's conquest? So we have 6 dragons hatched and one - Quicksilver becomes Aenys' mount. Leaving 5 which Maegor rejects - or who simply reject him. Don't forget what an egomaniac he was. He may well have claimed he was waiting when in fact he had unsuccessfully approached one or more Dragons in private. I propose The Cannibal must be one of these 5. I know there are rumours he was living on Dragonstone prior to the Targaryens arriving but I find this unlikely. Not to mention his likeness to Ballerion and Drogon makes me think he was indeed from a clutch sired by the Black dread. With Dany's dragons being old Targ eggs Varys has "acquired" or which the Blackfyre's took with them arriving in her possession via Illyrio. Dreamfyre must be one of the 6 too, she is big enough for Rhaena to ride her and Rhaena has been joined with her for some years. We are told she was a dragon rider at 12 but do not forget this does not mean she claimed her at 12, only that she and Dreamfyre were both mature enough to fly together at that point. As to why Rhaena had a dragon bonded to her as a young girl but her brother Aegon did not, see my point regarding the fact Dragons have an awful lot to do with who rides them if none of the others wanted Aegon he'd be forced to wait. And frankly, if the other dragons included Cannibal I can see why he waited!!! So we have 3 of the six and we can consider GreyGhost as a fourth. We are not told their size or age iirc in TP&TQ? But certainly, GreyGhost seems a peaceful soul who may or may not be one of the 6 who hatched during Aegon's reign. I can definitely see GreyGhost rejecting Maegor as a mount! In fact I can see Cannibal and GreyGhost as analogous of Aenys & Maegor themselves. Greyghost just wanted to be left alone to fish and fly and doesn't really want to be around people. Cannibal is a monstrous beast intent on destruction. The fact neither prince ever rode the Dragon who most represents them is I think quite supportive of viewing them as hatchlings who maybe hatched around the time the boys were each born but neither bonded their counterpart instead are left as a poignant reminder of the sons of the Dragons (cough, or should I maybe venture the Targaryens sisters sons) very different natures. number 5 I might venture to propose Meleys, she was definitely seen as one of the oldest Dragons during the Dance. Again she maybe just didn't like the smell of Aegon, I can imagine Aenys taking his son to the hatchlings on the Dragonmount and hoping one might take to the boy as Dreamfyre had Rhaena, but non coming forth to the lad. We get told Aenys's himself was given Quicksilver. But that is quite ambiguous. We know from TRP and TP&TQ that Dragons readily reject riders they don't like the feel of. I doubt early Targaryens had some superior power to bend the Dragons will. I propose this phrasing by Glydayn that Aenys's was given Quicksiler is just a turn of phrase when in fact Aegon likely took Aenys's to see the hatchlings hoping one might venture forth and bond with the boy. Luckily for him, one did. Obviously we do know that Meleys went on to be Rhaenys's mount. there are 26 years howether between Jaehaerys reign begining and Rhaeys's birth, meaning it likely Meleys had riders prior to her; this ought to be obvious given we are told she is an old dragon during the Dance. And there are candidates. Aerae or Rhaella being two possible candidates. Leaving a 6th and final candidate to be found and I'd propose Caraxes, who again is a huge dragon, half the size of Vhagar, but that makes sense given these hatchlings are born when Vhaghar herself is already a huge formidable dragon. if he was born at the time of Aegon I's reign then he'd be about a hundred-ish during the dance which makes sense for a huge Dragon who is non the less nowhere near as huge as a Vhagar who would be about 80 or so years his senior being hatched as she was in 52BC. This lack of riders for the 6 hatched during Aegon's reign explains why two Dragons went feral, No one was there to mount them, or dared in the Cannibals case. I propose that GreyGhost was so elusive & Cannibal so dangerous that when the two twins came to claim a mount Meleys & Caraxes were the more available options. I hope that the girls did each take one of the beasts. But I guess that is a story for another day (ie: Fire & Blood) maybe Rhaena retrieved Rhaella from her fate as a Septa, I do hope so and in that case, I'd like to see the twins claim these dragons as it gives each a rider prior to those we know they had. Surely Daemon & Rhaenys' would not be their first riders? I think surely the longer a Dragon goes riderless the harder they'd prove to claim? As seen in TP&TQ. Bringing me to Vermithor he could be one of the two who hatched during the two years of joint rule by the brothers? With Silverwing the other perhaps. I think there is a nice symmetry with the two dragons who were taken as representative of peace going on to be the mounts of the two Targaryens who did indeed bring years of peace and plenty to the realm. Leaving just Sheepstealer, who hatched early in Jaehaerys life, maybe just shortly after he took the IT? as it stands no one claimed him for 80 years! indicating that he hatched during a time when potential dragon riders were few. Which makes sense if I am right and Aerae & Rhaella took Maraxes and Meleys. Maybe Sheepstealer hatched and went wild before any of Jaehaerys & Allysannes children were old enough to try to claim him? I'm still annoyed that we did not get a description of Vhagar in this story.
  8. This is incorrect, the laws and customs of Meereen are not the laws and customs of Westeros, where there is a unique history. We have several examples of people wed outside of Westeros who then return to the continent and their marriages are perfectly accepted and upheld. Viserys II is a good example he married Larra Rogare in Lys and when they returned to Westeros no one claimed them unwed. Similarly, Orton Merryweather married his Myrish wife Taena during his exile. We can, therefore, presume their marriage was performed under Myrish custom. No one thinks their marriage is invalid. Similarly, it seems Maggy the Frog was wed to her Spicer husband in the Essos as it is said he brought his wife back to Westeros. Alys Harroway was married to Maegor in a Valyrian ceremony, wed by Fire & Blood we are told. And whilst people chuntetered and tutted and decried it for the polygamy. They were accepted to be married as Glydayn makes clear in this very text. I suspect the reason why Westeros chooses to honour all forms of marriage is due to their duality of religion within the Seven Kingdoms. In a place where half the country geographically at least follows a different faith, you can't go around denouncing the other faiths marriages. You'd not get very far trying to forge a political alliance with a house from the North if you are going around calling them all bastards. If an Andalised first man house decided that all those married under the Heart tree are illegitimately wed they'd be making their own ancestors bastards. Meereen might have their standards as to what they accept in terms of marriages under other faiths. But Westeros is altogether less fussy.
  9. Thank you Ran, I find this explanation more than satisfactory and very sensible. And I agree with you in this. I find the idea of an official outlawing of polygamy unlikely given that the entire royal line after Maegor descends from the second wife of Aegon Targaryen, to outlaw polygamy would invalidate their claim to the IT given that they all from that point on descended from Rhaenys. If polygamy were to become officially proscribed for Targaryens Aenys would posthumously become a bastard and thus Jaehaerys & Allysanne would be mere children of a bastard.
  10. I told you I won't debate this matter with you further. We've been arguing this matter for years and I no longer care to discuss it with you. As I find the conversation unproductive.
  11. Just posting to remind myself to come and comment in the morning. My main take homes were the fact that Maegors marriages are absolutely counted as real historically despite the vocal and numerous denials and complaints at the time of his marriage to Alys by the faith and some Lords. the way his Queens are talked about by this Maester makes it absolutely clear they are legitimate wives as far as the history of Westeros is concerned. (I will not be debating this with you Lord Varys so don't bother) The reporting of Tyanna as a Witch, the warrior woman leader Poxy Jeyne as a witch and the calling of a Hightower maid as a Witch all reinforce my own theories on Witches in Westeros. Mainly that Woods Witches were a much more powerful force in times past, and that certain families carry the arts and still practice magic use once attributed to this office. And that the Wildlings still revere them in the same way the first men did. And that there is a connection between woodswitches and warrior leaders.
  12. yeah, that's pretty much me.
  13. Who the fuck is Lawrence?
  14. They have a throne carved from Weirwood. this does not translate to The Eyrie used to have a Weirwood.
  15. I really dislike being told to chill. Just so you know.