The Weirwoods Eyes

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About The Weirwoods Eyes

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    Must think of something Witty to say here.
  • Birthday 05/19/1981

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    North Yorkshire

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  1. just so I can find it later
  2. As always Lord Varys you twist and shimmy your way to misconstruing every word I say. This is why I no longer choose to engage with you. A good example of your slippery and unproductive methods is here in how you equate the Faith of the Seven with Catholicism and use that equation to insist your opinion is fact. But then deny that same equation when I use the Catholic model to suggest that children of a marriage declared unlawful retrospectively become bastards. When we know full well that in real-world history this is exactly what was done. Take Elizabeth Woodville's children with Edward IV. When their marriage was declared false due to Edwards previous pre-contract with another woman her children by him were made Illegitimate! This is how Richard III was able to take the English throne. Later when Henry VIII broke with Rome he used the same model of retrospective bastardy to delegitimise both Mary and Elizabeth in turn. As it suited him. BTW Not even the Iron Born view Salt wives as the same as Rock Wives, because these women are not wives at all but in fact are kidnap victims subjected to rape and abuse. And yes whilst at the time there was outcry and calls for denunciation of Alys as Maegors wife. The histories record her and all the Black Brides as genuinely his wives. Which as I have been pointing out to you for years now is what actually matters in the long term. As to say a polygamous marriage of an essosi man? Why are you telling me Ser that should an important wealthy and influential Essosi merchant or political figure come to visit Westeros on a trade deal with his harem of wives that the Nobility of Westeros would stand there and say Of course these women are all whores, I don't think so! That's it that is all you're getting from me. I hope you can see from the few examples of the massive flaws and twists in your arguments why I have decided to no longer engage with you. You don't discuss the text to work out the likely events to come or those past but hidden. You discuss to support your own predetermined ideas and have a total inability to admit when you are mistaken. An example being how you claimed that you never said Maegors marriages were not seen as legitimate in the historical accounts when I could pull a dozen old threads where you indeed claimed just that. You denied it till you were blue in the face as they say. despite TWOIAF seeming to support that fact. A fact that TSoTD has made abundantly clear. ArchMaester Glydayn talks not of concubines, false wives and whores but of Queens.
  3. As to the discussion of Dragons. One crucial factor which seems to be being forgotten about here is that the Dragons themselves have a great deal to do with who ends up riding them. The question of why Aegon never had a dragon prior to Quicksilver can easily be answered by assuming none of the 6 (8 after Maegor & Aenys's reconciliation) wanted him. Can someone remind me, this 6 then 8 are not including Ballerion and Vhagar? But hatchlings since Aegon's conquest? So we have 6 dragons hatched and one - Quicksilver becomes Aenys' mount. Leaving 5 which Maegor rejects - or who simply reject him. Don't forget what an egomaniac he was. He may well have claimed he was waiting when in fact he had unsuccessfully approached one or more Dragons in private. I propose The Cannibal must be one of these 5. I know there are rumours he was living on Dragonstone prior to the Targaryens arriving but I find this unlikely. Not to mention his likeness to Ballerion and Drogon makes me think he was indeed from a clutch sired by the Black dread. With Dany's dragons being old Targ eggs Varys has "acquired" or which the Blackfyre's took with them arriving in her possession via Illyrio. Dreamfyre must be one of the 6 too, she is big enough for Rhaena to ride her and Rhaena has been joined with her for some years. We are told she was a dragon rider at 12 but do not forget this does not mean she claimed her at 12, only that she and Dreamfyre were both mature enough to fly together at that point. As to why Rhaena had a dragon bonded to her as a young girl but her brother Aegon did not, see my point regarding the fact Dragons have an awful lot to do with who rides them if none of the others wanted Aegon he'd be forced to wait. And frankly, if the other dragons included Cannibal I can see why he waited!!! So we have 3 of the six and we can consider GreyGhost as a fourth. We are not told their size or age iirc in TP&TQ? But certainly, GreyGhost seems a peaceful soul who may or may not be one of the 6 who hatched during Aegon's reign. I can definitely see GreyGhost rejecting Maegor as a mount! In fact I can see Cannibal and GreyGhost as analogous of Aenys & Maegor themselves. Greyghost just wanted to be left alone to fish and fly and doesn't really want to be around people. Cannibal is a monstrous beast intent on destruction. The fact neither prince ever rode the Dragon who most represents them is I think quite supportive of viewing them as hatchlings who maybe hatched around the time the boys were each born but neither bonded their counterpart instead are left as a poignant reminder of the sons of the Dragons (cough, or should I maybe venture the Targaryens sisters sons) very different natures. number 5 I might venture to propose Meleys, she was definitely seen as one of the oldest Dragons during the Dance. Again she maybe just didn't like the smell of Aegon, I can imagine Aenys taking his son to the hatchlings on the Dragonmount and hoping one might take to the boy as Dreamfyre had Rhaena, but non coming forth to the lad. We get told Aenys's himself was given Quicksilver. But that is quite ambiguous. We know from TRP and TP&TQ that Dragons readily reject riders they don't like the feel of. I doubt early Targaryens had some superior power to bend the Dragons will. I propose this phrasing by Glydayn that Aenys's was given Quicksiler is just a turn of phrase when in fact Aegon likely took Aenys's to see the hatchlings hoping one might venture forth and bond with the boy. Luckily for him, one did. Obviously we do know that Meleys went on to be Rhaenys's mount. there are 26 years howether between Jaehaerys reign begining and Rhaeys's birth, meaning it likely Meleys had riders prior to her; this ought to be obvious given we are told she is an old dragon during the Dance. And there are candidates. Aerae or Rhaella being two possible candidates. Leaving a 6th and final candidate to be found and I'd propose Caraxes, who again is a huge dragon, half the size of Vhagar, but that makes sense given these hatchlings are born when Vhaghar herself is already a huge formidable dragon. if he was born at the time of Aegon I's reign then he'd be about a hundred-ish during the dance which makes sense for a huge Dragon who is non the less nowhere near as huge as a Vhagar who would be about 80 or so years his senior being hatched as she was in 52BC. This lack of riders for the 6 hatched during Aegon's reign explains why two Dragons went feral, No one was there to mount them, or dared in the Cannibals case. I propose that GreyGhost was so elusive & Cannibal so dangerous that when the two twins came to claim a mount Meleys & Caraxes were the more available options. I hope that the girls did each take one of the beasts. But I guess that is a story for another day (ie: Fire & Blood) maybe Rhaena retrieved Rhaella from her fate as a Septa, I do hope so and in that case, I'd like to see the twins claim these dragons as it gives each a rider prior to those we know they had. Surely Daemon & Rhaenys' would not be their first riders? I think surely the longer a Dragon goes riderless the harder they'd prove to claim? As seen in TP&TQ. Bringing me to Vermithor he could be one of the two who hatched during the two years of joint rule by the brothers? With Silverwing the other perhaps. I think there is a nice symmetry with the two dragons who were taken as representative of peace going on to be the mounts of the two Targaryens who did indeed bring years of peace and plenty to the realm. Leaving just Sheepstealer, who hatched early in Jaehaerys life, maybe just shortly after he took the IT? as it stands no one claimed him for 80 years! indicating that he hatched during a time when potential dragon riders were few. Which makes sense if I am right and Aerae & Rhaella took Maraxes and Meleys. Maybe Sheepstealer hatched and went wild before any of Jaehaerys & Allysannes children were old enough to try to claim him? I'm still annoyed that we did not get a description of Vhagar in this story.
  4. This is incorrect, the laws and customs of Meereen are not the laws and customs of Westeros, where there is a unique history. We have several examples of people wed outside of Westeros who then return to the continent and their marriages are perfectly accepted and upheld. Viserys II is a good example he married Larra Rogare in Lys and when they returned to Westeros no one claimed them unwed. Similarly, Orton Merryweather married his Myrish wife Taena during his exile. We can, therefore, presume their marriage was performed under Myrish custom. No one thinks their marriage is invalid. Similarly, it seems Maggy the Frog was wed to her Spicer husband in the Essos as it is said he brought his wife back to Westeros. Alys Harroway was married to Maegor in a Valyrian ceremony, wed by Fire & Blood we are told. And whilst people chuntetered and tutted and decried it for the polygamy. They were accepted to be married as Glydayn makes clear in this very text. I suspect the reason why Westeros chooses to honour all forms of marriage is due to their duality of religion within the Seven Kingdoms. In a place where half the country geographically at least follows a different faith, you can't go around denouncing the other faiths marriages. You'd not get very far trying to forge a political alliance with a house from the North if you are going around calling them all bastards. If an Andalised first man house decided that all those married under the Heart tree are illegitimately wed they'd be making their own ancestors bastards. Meereen might have their standards as to what they accept in terms of marriages under other faiths. But Westeros is altogether less fussy.
  5. Thank you Ran, I find this explanation more than satisfactory and very sensible. And I agree with you in this. I find the idea of an official outlawing of polygamy unlikely given that the entire royal line after Maegor descends from the second wife of Aegon Targaryen, to outlaw polygamy would invalidate their claim to the IT given that they all from that point on descended from Rhaenys. If polygamy were to become officially proscribed for Targaryens Aenys would posthumously become a bastard and thus Jaehaerys & Allysanne would be mere children of a bastard.
  6. I told you I won't debate this matter with you further. We've been arguing this matter for years and I no longer care to discuss it with you. As I find the conversation unproductive.
  7. Just posting to remind myself to come and comment in the morning. My main take homes were the fact that Maegors marriages are absolutely counted as real historically despite the vocal and numerous denials and complaints at the time of his marriage to Alys by the faith and some Lords. the way his Queens are talked about by this Maester makes it absolutely clear they are legitimate wives as far as the history of Westeros is concerned. (I will not be debating this with you Lord Varys so don't bother) The reporting of Tyanna as a Witch, the warrior woman leader Poxy Jeyne as a witch and the calling of a Hightower maid as a Witch all reinforce my own theories on Witches in Westeros. Mainly that Woods Witches were a much more powerful force in times past, and that certain families carry the arts and still practice magic use once attributed to this office. And that the Wildlings still revere them in the same way the first men did. And that there is a connection between woodswitches and warrior leaders.
  8. yeah, that's pretty much me.
  9. Who the fuck is Lawrence?
  10. They have a throne carved from Weirwood. this does not translate to The Eyrie used to have a Weirwood.
  11. I really dislike being told to chill. Just so you know.
  12. Why the fuck would you make this thread?
  13. Most castles have a Godswood. Even the Andal ones. We visit several in the books but it is not said that most southern houses don't keep one, only that there are few Weirwoods in the South outside of the Godswoods, and the Isle of Faces. It is, in fact, the Gods wood at Storms end which is burnt by Stannis we don't know if Dragonstone has one, But I suspect it might be the only castle which does not. There is a Garden there called Aegon's garden which sounds like a Godswood with no hearttree. But it is not referred to as such. I suspect also that the Godswood at KL predates the castle. And that when the land was cleared to build the castle they simply retained part of the original woodland within the castle walls and carved out a heart tree from the great Oak. As there was no Weirwood there. We do know not all southern Godswoods have a weirwood, and that this practice of using another tree does occur. But it does seem most have a weirwood. given that Visenya, Aegon & Rhaenys were attempting to integrate into Westeros and took the faith of the 7 it makes sense that they'd want their castle to feel like all the rest in the realm and have a Godswood. Especially if they expected to have Northern Lords visit, take up offices such as Master of whatever or even Hand etc. Which one assumes they would anticipate. The Eyrie though is a Mystery! The Andals don't feel like a culture to make a Godswood out of respect for visiting Northerners and yet, the Gates of the Moon also built by the Arryn's and I assume given they attempted to plant one at the Eyrie that there is a Godswood here, though it has not been mentioned as yet? I'm kind of assuming that in TWOW Sansa will visit it though. - A dangerous move for a girl disguised as a former novice of the 7. And thus a clue to whoever is watching her as to her true identity. And also an opportunity for Bran to try to contact his sister. My feelings regarding why so many Godswood south of the neck is that most people upon converting to the seven still understood and felt the sentiment Sansa expresses that you can feel the Old Gods watching you in the Godswoods. And so despite conversion still could not get rid of them. It felt wrong, combined with respect for the shared faiths of Westeros. Imagine trying to make a marriage between a Tully & a Stark if the Tullys had felled their godswood? "You wish to wed my eldest Daughter Lord Tully? I think not, for where would she worship? how could she hold her faith in your godless castle? No, I think not my Lord." Many southern brides have gone North and many Northern ones gone South too, this would not be possible if either refused to provide the means for them to keep their own gods. Eddard has a sept built for Catelyn as she is the first Seven worshipping wife to a Stark. But building a sept is relatively easy compared to growing a wood, and a Heartree large enough to carve. When the South mostly took the seven they still had to maintain a working relationship with the North and whilst some people see them as heathens who worship tree's note these are usually either extremely religious people or actual Septons. Most Southerners just accept the Northerner's faith and respect their beliefs. Trade would be hard if you had burnt your godswood or used the sacred heart tree to build a cart. Imagine trying to buy beer or sell your wines when the Lord see's you as a disrespectful heathen? Fuck you and the horse you rode in on is how I think it would go if a Seven worshipping Lord who had felled his Godswood asked to buy timber from the North.
  14. I have a theory about Asha. Seriously though, I think Asha will rule the Iron Islands through Theon after he disputes the Kings Moot, there is precedent for that. yes. And that she is pregnant, she did not get a chance to drink Moontea after fucking Qarl the Maid. But as she is officially married, her child will be legitimate. And thus become Theon's heir, so when Theon dies she will be the regent. I think iirc there is a similar tale in the WOIAF book in the iron islands history? But the realisation that the baby will be legitimate despite clearly not being Eric Ironmakers child as she has never slept with him came to me whilst I was reading The Fiery Cross in which Fanny Beardsley gives birth to a daughter who is clearly not her husbands as she is mixed race and despite this the child inherits Aaron Beardsley's trading post. Because fanny was married to Aaron so the child is legally his no matter that it is obvious she is not genetically. So yes, I think Asha will end up in power via her child and via being Theon's right-hand woman whilst he rules. It had been a bug bear for some time trying to work out why GRRM had married Asha off to the old bloke when it did not seem to add anything to the story, so when I was reading the Outlander series and I got to that bit a light bulb pinged on.
  15. So, we all recall how in ACOK Sansa goes Hawking with Margaery and the other Tyrell girls. Whilst we do not go with Sansa via her POv we do get her recollection of it later. I do think it was deliberate though that GRRM did not give us this scene. Whilst they are out Sansa selects a Merlin, Which sorry to point out BEW. is a Falcon. It is the smallest of the genus though (in Europe at least I do not know much about the rest of the world) And her bird takes three ducks, whilst Marges Peregrine takes a Heron. The possible imagery of that has been discussed. But what I think is that given that Sansa is in the Vale there is a high chance she will go hawking again, she told Olenna that she had done some hawking at WF so this is an activity she can feel confident in, we've seen she had success last time, and she is experienced enough in it. That it would make a suitable date for her and Harry. Or a day trip with Randa, or indeed an activity to take SR on, to help build him up some more. It is after all the embodiment of Vale life. As has been discussed she has had various almost skinchanging experiences already and it would be easy to write the Hawking scene in such a manner which informs that she's been doing this activity a fair bit since arriving on the vale floor. And given the imagery around her relating to little birds her slipping the littlest bird seems apt. The Merlin is also known as the Pigeon Hawk btw. And Pigeons are doves, there is no real distinction between the two. Probably could have written that out more convincingly but it's friday night I've had a busy day and I have a bottle of pink prosecco with my name on it in the fridge and Dr Strange on DVD to watch.