The Weirwoods Eyes

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About The Weirwoods Eyes

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    Must think of something Witty to say here.
  • Birthday 05/19/1981

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    North Yorkshire

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  1. Royce as first family to be named meaningless or foreshadowing?

    I wonder about the various magics a lot, As I said I did a thread back when the world book came out about it. I don't think the magics are only accessible by certain bloodlines. but rather that there is an ability in certain people to perform magic and that various families and sects etc specialised in various magics. I think GRRM actually told us this right back in Game, with the introduction of MMD. Who is of the Lamb people but who has trained with many different peoples and learnt skills both magical and practical. Travelling far and wide to do so. She demonstrates that she can heal with herblore, and I believe the poultice was genuine. The names of the plants chosen for it imply that she was actually trying to heal the wound. Firepod sounds like something that would raise the temperature of the skin. And so I think it likely is akin to a mustard plaster. Which raises the skins temperature and dilates blood vessels in the area. Causing pain relief and it is believed draws toxins out. Also raising the body temperature helps the immune system to fight off some infections, hence why we get fevers. So it could have been being used to both relieve pain from the wound and prevent infection from setting in. Sting-me-not sounds like it might be akin to stinging nettles which can be used as a poultice to stop bleeding. But MMD demonstrates more than just herblore, she has travelled to Asshai and learnt shadowbinding And I think she shows us some shadow binding in the tent later on when shadows of wolf and a man wreathed in flame. She knows the birthing songs of the moonsingers. The Moonsingers can prophesize and we know that this ability is strongly associated with magic in series. So I think their birthing songs may have a magical aspect also. And we know she studied under Marwyn. Who himself has also learnt a lot of different magics again including shadowbinding and he can light the glass candles. MMD uses the fear powder mentioned by Melisandre and she says that there is much healing power in flame. Hinting she can do the same magic as Moqorro uses on Victarion. She is one of the few people in story who have raised a person from the dead, despite his vegetative state Drogo was indeed alive. And I believe she used the fire kiss to do it, she calls for a brazier prior to driving everyone from the tent and I think the stallion and only death can pay for life was all smoke & mirrors. She demonstrates lots of different skills and magics and I think that implies that it can all be learnt by those who have the ability. Again Marwyn shows you don't have to be from certain bloodlines to do magic and it certainly does not come from some god. Mellisandre again knows more than the R'hhlorists standard bag of tricks. And again she went to Asshai and learnt shadowbinding, we know shadowbinders are a specific sect as we meet Quaith. Who again can do magic. And Maggy the frog is not Targaryen yet she performs a form of blood magic on Cersei by reading her future through ingesting her blood. Alys Rivers shows us that you do not have to be a red priest to read flames, because she reads fires and stormclouds and puddles on the ground. She is simply a bastard girl from the riverlands, though I suspect a Blackwood one. And this I think is a tell that Blackwoods are a magical family, we have Bloodraven also who weaves magics. He uses the same glamour magic as Mellisandre utilising a Moonstone rather than a ruby. And whilst all the Stark kids are wargs, we meet Skinchangers as well. But then it turns out that skinchanging and warging are not seperate, but just that people differentiate the ability to skinchange a wolf as warging. Bran of course skinchanges Hodor as well as Summer & the ravens and Arya skinchanges the cat in Braavos on two occasions, she even has a cat dream. We hear of a family that skinchange seals, and then we have the Mormonts who many think are bear skinchangers. but I suspect that just like our Starks these families could slip the skin of any animal if they learnt to do so. And in the world book we hear a lot of surprising bits of magic being used. historically by all manor of peoples. So these 9 families may not be separate bloodlines who can only do one specific thing, but rather people with the right blood who think they can only do a specific thing. Which makes the thought of so much warring over it seem a bit ironic. Because as we see, some characters manage to do a lot more than the magic traditionally associated with their blood line. So Royce's have harnessed some runic magic which in some way protects the wearer but not from steel swords. So I think the runes pertain to the Others as others have suggested. And that it will come into play later on. maybe ancient Royce's could cast spells with runes. We have not come across any other examples in book of people using written spellcraft. But it most certainly is in our own world a traditional magic form.
  2. Royce as first family to be named meaningless or foreshadowing?

    Yes seems to have just been random choice.
  3. Royce as first family to be named meaningless or foreshadowing?

    Well, I've come back to find lots of very intriguing ideas being discussed. I'm going to employ the get shitfaced on vodka cos it's Friday and see what my brain does overnight tactic. Hopefully tomorrow I have some ideas.
  4. Royce as first family to be named meaningless or foreshadowing?

    MREEENBYON S? ILZ (but upside down) ST S? S?GGFN theS'sare question marked as they are orientated differently to the very quick rune search I made. And the Z is upside down. several of the runes on the shield seem to be from different sources. So unless my very quick google is totally off it seems the artwork is just some random runes. I wouldn't place any faith in it being truly representative of the runes in world or having significance. I suspect whoever put together the show version was just having a laugh.
  5. Royce as first family to be named meaningless or foreshadowing?

    I really wouldn't hold anything at all in anything the show has done. As they have zero respect for the source material. Do you think you could translate the heraldry from the Wiki here? Of course the runes of the artwork may just be gobbeldy gook but still have significance in book.
  6. Royce as first family to be named meaningless or foreshadowing?

    That made me giggle.
  7. Royce as first family to be named meaningless or foreshadowing?

    Aha! Indeed Necropants are a thing. lol. Or were at any rate. I'm a bit obsessed with Witchcraft tbh. yes, one of the things which struck me was that they can be passed through the generations. And that the magic is centred around the genitals, the scrotum in particular. Now imagine taking that idea and applying it to a cloak made from people and the magic is not gold, but accessing their memories. That's some powerful magic to be able to pass on to your heirs. Want to know how to access the tunnels to sneak into WF? Just put on old dead King Starks skin for a while. And sit in the special room while you rifle through his memories. Different skins would hold different bits of information, you might kill a scout and learn of the battle plans of the host approaching your lands. Now think about this concept of Skin magic (It's a form of blood magic, right. I once started a thread about all the different forms of magic in world right after the WOIAF release but alas hardly anyone commented. ) In relation to the Pink letter. If Ramsey has killed and flayed and worn the cloak of the 6 Spearwives, he would know enough to write that letter without them having spoken a word. He could access their memories of Mance being falsely burnt, of the Red Witch, of Seylse & Shireen being at CB. Of Val, and what they call her up at the wall. And who she is and what she can do if those theories are correct, which would explain why Ramsey wants her. Of the babe, why does he want Manses son? I mean he makes it clear he hasn't killed Manse and he wants the man's son, which all makes me think he wants leverage over Manse, cos flaying his women hasn't given him what he is after? And he'd know Theon took Jeyne and that the plan was to head for the wall, because the spearwives assisted in that escape. It would not matter if they had bitten their own tongues off in order to keep silent. If he can wear their skin and see their past be them whilst he wears it even, as Arya is the Ugly girl, and feels and see's the beatings, or as she is Mercy. I have never believed he has defeated Stannis, but I do think the letter is a mix of fact and bravado. ETA: there is at least part of this idea which is inspired also by a Wildcards character who can access people's memories by eating their brains.
  8. Royce as first family to be named meaningless or foreshadowing?

    Interesting ideas, I think lamentation as a sword name implies regret. Or a sense of loss. I kinda put it down to the fact that the Royces had lost their Kingship of the Vale. And of course, the sword itself is lost. But tying it to the Long Night and thinking in terms of the lost city in the bible is intersting, are you getting at the Long Night being a similar idea to God foresaking the people of Jerusalem in Lammentations. Care to ellaborate on your thoughts? I'm interested.
  9. Royce as first family to be named meaningless or foreshadowing?

    Interesting. Well, the Boltons certainly go back far enough to have intermarried with the Royces. And the Red Kings which is the period of their history where these Royce Boltons show up are said to have ruled since the Long Night. So say. House Royce are instrumental in the defeat of the Others with the Last Hero. And that one daughter is married to a Bolton, she might take up the practice of gifting her own house name to her son and the heir. As I said this is I believe quite common in some parts of the world. I'm thinking maybe the USA specifically but my knowledge of the states isn't exactly shit hot. Now, might this imply that a Bolton was also amongst the LH's companions? Not at all impossible. Being united in the face of a grave danger which threatens all, does not guarantee lasting peace between families. So one thing I'm interested in is the Bolton skinning and wearing of their enemies skins. I'm wondering if there might be some magic to it. I know I'm hardly the first to think this. Let's look at possibly the most famous example of wearing flayed skin garments. The Icelandic Necropants. So the wearer must gain permission from the deceased prior to their death. But we can rule that out in the Bolton's case. They most definitely did not. And then must dig up the corpse; again no need as Boltons are into live flaying. So straight away there is a distinct lack of consent involved and indeed torture! So we can establish that the Boltons flaying is in no way a "nice" thing. It's definitely nefarious in its nature. Next though is where I'm kinda seeing some possibility for inspiration. The Lower half of the body must be flayed in its entirety and the trousers made from it once you sew them back up then worn over your own bear skin, and this is where I see some similarity, the Boltons are frequently described as wearing the skins of their enemies. The Necropants are said to adhere directly to your own skin, sounds like magic (also sounds like the FM's facial wearing! hmmmm.that means we have already an example of in world magic which works in a similar way to that which I am about to begin suggesting.) to me. Now the Boltons seemingly are quite attached to doing this, so much so they've built their entire house image around it and their historical members bore names such as the red (Bloody) Kings, Royce redarm, (who tore out his enemies entrails with his bare hands. Again is this all show? or is there something more to the Bolton's grisly practices? remind anyone else of Haruspication? And Rogar The Huntsman - who's he been a hunting? boars? or people. I mean we see Ramsey literally hunting people later might he have got his hobby from the family history books? Back to those necropants. The magic is activated by placing a single gold coin in the scrotum, along with a magical symbol. and the wearer then will find the Scrotum is forever full of gold coins, so long as the original coin and the magical symbol are not removed. And the wearer can pass the magic pants on to their family members, in fact they must do this to ensure salvation! But the new wearer must accept them and step into both legs directly as the old wearer steps out. So It seems that the power can be maintained from say father to son, so long as the magic is not broken by leaving the trousers empty and or removing the magical symbols.the coin and the drawing/symbol/rune?? It is rumoured that there is a secret chamber in the Dreadfort where skins are kept, despite the fact they agreed long ago to stop flaying people. Then we have the huge Tent made from the skins of Sistermen by Belthasar Bolton. Why? Maybe to intimidate sure, but maybe for some form of ceremony? using all those skins at once might grant some serious mind-reading magic to someone sat in the centre of that tent? The Chronicles also say Northmen disembowelled the Sistermen? More evidence of reading of entrails? they are said to have wound them round spits? Now this is all sounding very like propaganda. Of course but we know of the decorating of Weirwood trees with entrails? and well. why did they do that, is that what happened during the rape of the sisters? Was it ceremonial? or to do with communicating with the Greenseers buried in the trees? Why on earth were they so into conquering the sisters anyway. I digress. What I'm going to go ahead and suggest now is that the Boltons flay people and use their skin in some form of magic. Maybe wearing the cloaks enables some sort of insight into the mind of the dead, much like wearing the faces gives the wearer the memories and thoughts of the dead in the FM's magic. I've long suspected that the various forms of magic in world are not remotely exclusive to those who have historically and currently wielded them. but rather that some people have magical ability and can access the various in world magics if they learn them. this is evident in both MMD & Mellisandre and to a lesser extent maybe on Beric. But that different families and sects have "specialised" in certain magics. So I'm suggesting the Boltons are doing what the faceless men are doing but have come at it from a different angle and used it/maybe are trying to use it again? to gain advantages in battle. Or in ongoing conflict, like they engaged in with House Stark. In which sense it makes total sense to keep the skins of your enemies, much like the FM's room of faces? Because you never know when channelling the memories and thoughts, feelings etc of a dead foe may come in handy when trying to defeat his son? Or his Brother, or grandson even. You'd learn all the Starks secrets if you could put on the skin of their dead King and enter his memories. Blimey1 that got a bit OT. Sorry.
  10. Royce as first family to be named meaningless or foreshadowing?

    That's interesting @Crowfood's Daughter I'd not noticed the use of Royce in the Bolton family tree. Do you think it might be a case of a daughter using her own surname as her son's given name? I know that is a thing in some places.
  11. Royce as first family to be named meaningless or foreshadowing?

    I really like the idea that someone is going to have to learn to read runes. I wonder about their arms as well. Do the runes around their heraldry say the same thing as the armour? Or is the armour engraved with spells of protection, and the heraldry says the thing which they remember? What if, and this is pure speculation. But what if given that runes are of specific significance to House Royce they actually have kept alive the ability to read them? In which case Bronze Yhon could become pretty important if say he is taken or travells north as i suspect most people will be doing towards the end of Winds. And he can read some of those books at the wall, and teach others to read runes? I get the feeling that some important information is locked away in that lost language, another idea I've had previously is that perhaps a wilding or two will know the runes? Maybe Morna, as I've said before I have a theory re: Woods witches. It isn't hugely elaborate mind. But basically that they are way more powerful and significant in the Old Gods faith as it once was, and as it is preserved beyond the wall than modern day Westerosi's realise.
  12. Jon was born a bastard and remains a bastard.

    I'm going to make it really simple, Bring me text proof that Rhaenys & Maegor's wives were officially seen as not real wives. Until then basically, everything you are saying is just your opinion. Just because you talk about your opinions as though they are facts that doesn't make it so. like I keep saying the HS at the time it happened's opinion whatever it may have been is irrelevant. The likelihood of who and who not may accept it at that time is irrelevant. All that will matter is that there are witnesses, and I believe there will be several. And that enough people at the point it is revealed decide they are, under the circumstances the realm currently faces willing to accept it. ETA: anyway forget all that, cos we've had that argument before and no way will you ever change my mind without the textual proof I've asked for. But seriously tell me more about this Maidenpool idea of yours. Because that I AM interested in.
  13. Jon was born a bastard and remains a bastard.

    You don't need to explain the settlement act to me. Still not the same cos Westeros does not have an issue with its two religions. And there has been no declaration regarding polygamy. No one has claimed second wives are illegitimate. It is not equivilent.
  14. Jon was born a bastard and remains a bastard.

    I have never argued that all of Maegor's wives were equal only that they were viewed as and still are viewed as his wives. Unless you find some text to show that it was widely felt that these women were not married to him actually and not his wives. I'm afraid my opinion on that. And the facts as they are known in Westeros so to speak won't alter. You are asserting what you believe about the faith of the seven and their views on marriage as fact. But you simply can not assume this. Yes both Andal &Firstmen modern day marriage practice is confined to one man one woman. But the Targaryen's openly practised Polygamy and historically it was practised by first men, and is still practised beyond the wall, and no one has ever declared these polygamous marriages null and void. And until you find me some text quotes stating that the nobility don't believe Rhaenys to be Aegon's true wife nor any of Maegor's wives but Ceryse then I'm afraid you haven't proven anything of the sort. I'm sorry but I entirely disagree, marriage may well be a social convention, but if I get married and no other fucker is there to witness it but me and my spouse that person is still my spouse. You are trying to argue that unless a thing is witnessed it didn't happen. Well, that is bollocks. If I fall on my arse and bruise it but no one else saw it my arse will still hurt in the morning. Now you can argue that other people won't know I fell on my arse, and won't accord me the sympathy my bruised arse warrents, No one will bring me a donut cushion to sit on. but my arse will never the less be bruised. I might die and my child may never know I fell on my arse but it still happened. IE: did the tree make a sound when it fell even though no one heard it. Yes of course it did. Might no one ever know the tree fell. Sure. But it still fell. Marriage as a social construct does exist and if two people go through the socially accepted form of marriage ceremony but don't tell anyone then they still got married. Besides which I fully expect several witnesses to come forth, and as I keep saying the chances of people accepting it 18 years ago is irrelevant it is what they wish to accept upon it's revelation which matters. And if the author wills it, it will be accepted. And given the book so far I strongly suspect it will be accepted by enough people to give it real credence and support. And if it is not then in my view they were still married. You keep saying Andal culture does not accept polygamy. But you haven't provided any proof of this. Bring me some quotes regarding Rhaenys and Maegor's subsequent wives being declared illegitimate and I'll agree with you. But until then. Nope. They certainly don't like it, but we are yet to see any evidence that it was seen as non valid. ramsey is seen as legitimately wed to Lady Hornwood, and sansa is seen as legitimately wed to tyrion. Even though everyone knows these two weddings were forced. No one has said even once that they are invallid. Yes, I know they do. That was me being highly sarcastic. You say that is not what happened with Aegon and his sister wives, and then go on to say what happened and it is exactly that! Visenya the first wife- whom I just said to my knowledge has superiority and whose children are seen as the "heirs" wanted her son to be heir over Rhaenys's son even though he was the younger. YES! exactly, because he was born to the first- ie: highest ranking wife! We don't have a clue what Lyanna had in her heart, for all we know she hadn't thought passed that funny feeling in her knickers when she looks at Rhaegar. Or she might have been happy to accept Elia's son will inherit because she wasn't fussed about being mother to a King, and felt Ok with just being mother to Princes and Princesses. Of maybe she felt the chance Aegon might die in his cradle was worth it cos Elia can not have another son. Erm, well thank goodness Rhaegar isn't Aegon IV hey. I'm sure i'd take a second wife whose children come after mine, and getting to live even if it is without PIV sex in my future over being shagged into my grave. It does not indicate Dany's thoughts on what Westeros would accept in terms of a marriage, only that unlike Westeros Ghis is less accepting and tollerant of other cultures marriage rights. Again if Westeros didn't accept any and all marriages Robert needed not fear Dany's pregnancy. As according toyou all in westeros would see the child as a bastard. Also Viserys II would have had to re-marry Larra Rogere as the realm would not have accepted his marriage having been performed in Lys presumably by Lyseni rights. And I'm yet to hear anyone ever suggest in universe Aegon IV , Naerys & Aemon were all bastards.
  15. Jon was born a bastard and remains a bastard.