The Weirwoods Eyes

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About The Weirwoods Eyes

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    Must think of something Witty to say here.
  • Birthday 05/19/1981

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  1. Yes, I am looking forward to seeing how the Vale plot plays out. I do think we will see her in a relationship of her own choosing in the end. i think that is largely what her story is about. As to Harry I agree I don't think he will be about for long, but equally I don't think Sansa is in any danger of having to have an actual relationship with him.
  2. I was referring to the TWOW sample chapter Alayne I. Where Sansa: Which did put to bed the worst of the patriarchal control freak forum users. Who were usually extremely offensive towards anyone who suggested Sansa might have her own sexuality and that she might have a relationship with a man of her own choosing. Some people just really can not handle adolescent female sexuality.
  3. Arya is not a psychopath, People say this a lot but it's nonsense. And we have no idea what LF feels when he kills people, say when he killed Dontos for example. Or when he watched Ned beheaded after influencing Joffrey. We do not know because we are not in his head. My personal guess is that he doesn't feel all that much at all when he murders Dontos. But that when he watched Ned die he loved it. I'm just guessing based upon what I think of him as a character though. He does not value human life, that much is evident through his chosen method of making money. Pimping women of lower socio economic status for profit. Which includes beating those who do not want to participate in their new "job" does not lend to the idea that a person would be empathetic or respectful of human life. He then uses Jeyne to gain political power by sending her to Tywin to send to Ramsey and though he likely is not in full consciousness of Ramsey's nature. He's still using her as a commodity with total disregard for her safety or her consent. This doesn't sound like the kind of person who gives a shit about other people. So I disagree that we can say he doesn't enjoy killing people. There is no evidence that he felt bad at all about killing Dontos. Indeed he seems totally callus when he does it.
  4. It struck me yesterday, as I received my copy of dying of the Light in the post; as I said I am reading all GRRM's back catalogue at the moment. Anyone who thinks he is not (Amongst a whole heap of other genre's) a romance writer is living in cloud cuckoo land. I read the back cover of it when it arrived. And it reads like a straight up romance story. Take away the Sci-Fi elements and I could have had in my hand any number of books of the Romance genre! Let me surmise. Our protagonist has been summoned to return to his former home and a woman h loves but thinks is lost to him. This is a pretty classic set up for a start. But the synopsis goes on to tell us his home and the woman he once loved have both changed. Again I could be telling you about a Mills & Boon here. Oh, and what do we learn next, she's now involved with another man, it says bound which gives the impression of a less than consensual arrangement and he is a brute. Well again here we have a very typical romance trope. He then will have to protect his former love from her oafish partner. The classic situation would usually be that she has become engaged to this man for reasons her family have dictated. Often the family have become impoverished and are making the marriage for financial reasons. I'll have to wait to find out why she's bound to this man though as I've not quite finished Dream Songs Vol 1. The last paragraph of the synopsis promises us crossed purposes, secrets and lies and a Triangle of relationships where each person's ultimate fate lies in a different direction, escape vengeance and death. Though this seems to be assuring the reader this won't get too predictable It doesn't actually rule out the classic romance set up of him finding he still has feelings for the woman and ultimately helping her escape the unwanted marriage and her declaring passionate feelings for him and them ending up in bed and escaping the situation together. However, I'm sure GRRM will pull it off in a less expected manner and that there will be twists and turns to keep me turning the page all the way through. now, please don't be a prat and spoil the story for me by telling me how wrong my summarisation of the back sleeve synopsis is. I've detailed it here for the purposes of illustrating how GRRM is a fan of romance. Because so many seem to think he's not writing any love stories. I once read something of his where he defends Romance as a Genre but alas have never recalled where I read it. Despite wracking my brains on the matter. I seem to think it had something to do with Dianna Gabaldon and their friendship and her being so often dismissed as a Romance writer when in fact the Outlander series is so much more and crosses several genres's in fiction, much like he likes to do. But that one ought not to dismiss romance writing anyway.
  5. Very insightful @Tijgy Again I like what you have to say on this matter. It frustrates me how people like to absolve Ned of his own mistakes. everything you have pointed out here is true. The love between these two men is love, we do love our friends. Especially those we share childhood memories with or whom we have gone through hard times together with. The bond of shared experience is very strong. Ned is blinded by his memories of Robert as he saw him during their youth and it takes a long time for him to see the truth. Even at the end though his love for Robert wins out over common sense and he lies to him on his death bed to spare him his pride and the pain of discovering the children he believes he is leaving as his legacy are not his own. The truth would have hurt Robert, but it also would have given Ned a signed document disinheriting Joffrey and his siblings. Which is probably not enough alone to save him, but it might have given him a better chance as it would open up more options for him in his course of action. Once again love is the death of duty. As Ned's duty was, to tell the truth. For the realm and to Robert but love stopped him.
  6. Agreed That was a great post @Tijgy And yes Ned's blindness over Robert's nature is tragic. And I agree even at the end he just wanted to spare the man pain over Cersei's betrayal. But Robert was a first class jerk really, and his ignoring Ned's plea over Lady is awful. The man just didn't care enough, and it is reflected in his treatment of women too. Ned can see what he does to them but doesn't see that Roberts friendship is as shallow as his affection for all his women.
  7. So much to say. So much has been written since I last came on the site and it has taken me ages to read through all the posts. Some stuff has been covered by others and I honestly wonder if there is any point in trying to discuss as some posters truly seem to have a massive comprehension issue. Both in literature and actual human beings. I'll start with the issue which has reared it's ugly head after having been blessedly absent from the forums for some time. female autonomy. So many people ridicule the actual analysis of the text and literary techniques used as "shipping" and yet.... and yet..... also like to propose random characters as partners for these two ladies because they deem that character appropriate. Oh so often due to nothing more than being a similar age! or being "nicer" than the male whom she actually has an attraction to and the text leads the reader to expect her to couple up with. Guess what books don't work like that. the author doesn't care what you or anyone else thinks to his pairings. He'll write the story he wants to write even if you personally can't stomach a female character choosing a sexual partner you disapprove of. Ask yourselves this too, why do you think these men have to give something to their respective female characters? Do you think women only engage in romantic relationships for some sort of gain? I've got some information for you. No, we don't. I couldn't give a shit what anyone thinks of the age gaps, or unsuitability. Fuck off with that sanctimonious bollocks. The ages are young for some characters to be doing the things they are doing. This has been acknowledged by the author so just let go of it. But tbh aside from that I've been having sex since I was 13 and so personally no I don't think it is absurd to imagine characters of a similar age in the books having relationships. I especially love the hypocrisy of insisting Gendry must be having lots of sex with loads of women, but disliking the idea of Sansa having sex with a man of her own choosing. Gendry is 15/16 and Sansa will be probably 14/15 when she has sex. OMG, clutch your pearls to your twinset guys.......the horror!!!!! It's almost as enjoyable as the double standard where no one mentions that Cersei sexually abused and exploited Lancel. Her cousin a boy barely older than her own son. Not that anyone has mentioned that one in this thread but My gosh do people ignore that one whilst exclaiming horror at the idea of Sansa engaging in a mutually consensual uncoerced sexual relationship with a guy she actually fancies. I'm particularly weirded out by the idea that it is better to be sexually assaulted by a good-looking man with nice breath than it is to desire an inappropriate one. And kissing and touching someone against their will is sexual assault. Consent is such an important word, and for those of you have evidenced how much to have failed to understand it or it's importance there are lots of really good analogies online these days. though with the serious lack of reading comprehension going on in this thread maybe these people need something more literal. Also, he's playing daddy-daughter games. Errrrrr What the actual fuck! This is beyond gross. His daddy - daughter games include forcing kisses on her mouth and face, sitting her in his lap AKA dick zone, just saying. hey, ladies, we've all been there with a guy pressing his hard on up against us in a bar or the tube etc. It's so errrrr unfuckingwanted and intrusive and yeah assault. and brushing her breast with his hands. I'm pretty sure my dad was a sociopath. But he never sat me on his lap kissed me on the mouth and touched my tits. I'm pretty certain that shit is badly wrong and he had no moral compass cos, yeah he tried to murder me. Three times! LF's games are abusive and disgusting. he's a pimp too don't forget so although I agree he loves her in a fucked up, one-sided, unhealthy way his view of women as sexual commodities is well established. You don't have to be mentally healthy to fall in love and even stalkers who rape and murder their victims feel like they love them. This, however, doesn't really equate to anything other than him being an abuser. Who has no respect for women at all. He is by far and away more toxic than Sandor but that is beside the point and here it is again for those at the back who may have missed it.... CONSENT. AUTONOMY. AGENCY. Sansa has her own arc she's a major POV character her story is largely about the things I typed in caps above, Sandor is a side character who is there to serve her plot. And her plot can exist on its own merit it doesn't need anyone's approval. Her story is about finding agency in a world which denies it to her because of her sex. I'm sure it will fit into the overarching story just fine in the end. As will Arya's. Who I don't foresee as a happy ever after cos I think she'll die. But again her story is her journey she is an important character and her story being about her matters. It will fit into the main plot in a way which works for her. But her story will still be about finding herself and being comfortable in her own skin. These characters all fit together to form a big picture story, of course, they do but each is also on their own individual journey. They're all having a coming of age story tied up in a big fat fantasy fight to save the world hero's quest tale. Some of their stories follow classic romance themes others are about the son setting out on his own to prove his worth. Sometimes the character whose engaged in that story has had their sex flipped and sometimes the tropes are set on their heads. But overall the patterns involved follow time honoured traditional story telling techniques. BTW, some of us saw the things coming which have been listed as Oh such a surprise!! It's called being an observant and well-read reader.
  8. Can you provide the quote of him actually spying them? I think we need to ascertain where abouts in the tower he saw them? My own view had always been that Jaime scouted the castle for a private spot, then set up a way to access it before telling Cersei where to meet him. So I'd had in mind that he took a ladder from somewhere else in the castle and used it inside the broken tower to climb up to the parts of the tower less affected by the fire. hauling the ladder up after them maybe so that anyone wandering around would not spot it. After all Bran only tells us there are two ways he knows of. He's a kid but a grown man like Jaime may be able to use a ladder then use his additional height, arm reach and upper body strength to haul himself up from a floor that Bran could never reach ladder or no ladder as he's too small and puny. From the top of the ladder, Cersei would be easily reachable for strong Jaime again to simply haul her up onto a less unstable platform.
  9. Yes, I recall my first crush on a boy I was about 8, he was an American kid who's dad had been posted to RAF Fylingdales (that's our early warning system and it's a stone's throw from our town.) He was totally uninterested in me but I Luffed him and his funny accent and his floppy black hair and dark eyes. Arya definitely spends a lot of time gazing at Gendry's muscular body and as he indeed is tall, has that perfect inverted V body type and is built but not stupid big and has dark black curls and piercing blue eyes chances are he's fit as fuck. We can't blame Arya for taking advantage of how often he has his top off. And at her age, it's that mixture of knowing you like what you see but not really understanding why. Which is fine. And the entire set up is for a pay off later on when they meet back up. She's on the cusp of flowering, growing taller, people commenting on how pretty she is etc. I really think that just as Swans are a theme in her arc, she'll be the "ugly" Cygnet who fledges into a stunning swan and we will get that classic Tom Boy got hot trope playing out when they meet back up, and that the attraction is of course well backed up by them having a bonding experience of struggling in the RL's relying upon one another and that they actually liked one another as people prior to anything else. Lets say she's 12/13 when they meet again, she's almost 12 maybe actually 12 now after all. So she would most likely be 13 coming up 14. that makes him 16 maybe 17. Well, that's not so weird. My boyfriend at 14 was 17 but as I've said I couldn't give a shit about the age gaps. I also don't think her trauma would affect the ability to fall in love or have a relationship. People saying such things have obviously led very sheltered lives. Trauma does not stop people being interested in sex or relationships. Sometimes it does yes. But it is not a given and the type which does result in a lack of interest in sex usually stems from sexual abuse. Even then it is not a guarantee. It can even go the other way. Arya has not been raped. She's experienced horrifying things but this would not in my opinion or experience as someone who actually has CPTSD mean she automatically can not fall in love. In fact, people who have had dreadful childhoods often have multiple relationships and are very passionate people. This is the kind of love many like to dismiss as not real, which is very offensive really. People who've had shit childhoods tend to flock together and I've got a few friends with this type of personality as a result and their feelings are no less real than anyone else's I'm in total agreement regarding your comments on Sandor here. I read your Hedge Knights essay last night, and I loved it. I never felt the Howland as the Mad Mouse theory held much water before I'd heard of it in passing and admit I'd dismissed it. But I actually really found myself nodding along. My only objection to this theory is that if the three men succeed in taking Sansa from the Vale, how can she kill LF in her Castle made of snow? Which I think will be WF? she's have parted ways with him by the time she heads north. I don't wish to derail this great thread though. So don't feel you have to answer me here. We could PM if you like. But yes, it was a fantastic read. thank you. . .
  10. A while ago I was looking into Brienne specifically in relation to her true knight status. And I found she has a whole bunch of Moonmaiden symbolism around her too. And when I was looking at the constellations because of the sword of the morning connections. I found this little beauty. Here Brienne is the Moodmaid, she is shy and he wonders how such a Knight could be beautiful. Ostensibly he is talking about the night is unlikely to be beautiful because he's just had his hand chopped off. But he's talking about Brienne. Then he asks why would the stars want to look down on such as me? He's thinking this because the stars are too good to be looking down at him because his opinion of himself is so low. He's failed at being the true Knight he dreamt he'd be. So the stars are Brienne, she's the Moonmaid! And he's wondering why she'd want to look at him? Given his soiled Knight status v's her true Knight status and her being Beautiful despite her physically failing as the ideal of Westerosi beauty. I've included her words to him, as though they don't have any direct bearing on the analogy I think the fact this takes place in her presence is pertinent and also the wording of her concern for his welfare being whispered in such a faint voice he thinks he is dreaming it. He then tells her he is dying and she tells him he isn't allowed to die. I love that as it is cementing the relationship as it goes forth. She's strong for him when he is at his weakest, tending him, keeping him going, helping him stay alive after the loss of his sword hand. He falls in love with her and she him and then, of course, he goes on to risk life and limb for her in the bear pit and to defend her honour by hitting Red Ronnet, gives her Oathkeeper etc.
  11. Can I respectfully request that we stick to the topic. It is very rare that we get a romance thread on the boards and there is good discussion happening. Whilst I understand that Arya's state of mind can be thought relevant to whether or not she would be likely to fall in love and that there is a debate to be had surrounding that concept. I don't think allowing things to descend into a debate about Dany's killings V's Arya's killings is helpful to the topic.
  12. Thanks, yes people are very linear about their ideas as to what love is. And often they do not appreciate that their feelings about it might not match up with other peoples or the reality of human relationships. And GRRM has done a wonderful job of portraying those human emotions in a wide varied manner. I was going to tag you into this thread. All great stuff as always Le Cygne. Love the parallels between Braime and SanSan this is indeed a great B&TB telling by GRRM. He throws other stuff in for sure but at their cores both romances are B&TB. Which is apt as he is open about loving that story. People often seem to forget that he is an unapologetic self-professed romantic when they cry how ASOIAF is not about love. He utilises both classic romance genre story structures and fairy tales when he constructs his love stories. Arya and Gendry, for instance, brings to mind the oft used trope of the childhood friends who are separated and when they meet again the tom boy got hot. I like what you found here. switch she out to he and she's telling us that The Hound is not a Dog AKA a Clegane, he's a Direwolf AKA a Stark. Which is apt as Septa Mordane has just told her that she's too high born to feed the dog at the table. Nice girls do not do that kind of thing. And she's as willful as her sister Arya when it comes to that creature. Which works very well for her being wilful when it comes to the Hound. And defying cultural expectations of what Lady like behaviour is by marrying him. And Sansa even thinks of the way Ladies rough tongue licks at her fingers as she takes the tit bit. Which can be read in the context of the quote being foreshadowing, as a sensuous act which she takes pleasure in. Which thematically works for Sansa as her themes are amongst others taking ownership of her own sexuality. And finding personal autonomy.
  13. Absolutely. I don't think her siblings would turn their backs on her. So she would be able to come and go as she pleased at WF, and likely have a pretty decent standard of living. But I don't think she will definitely go back to being a High Born Lady once she returns to Westeros. At least not in the traditional sense. And I'll be honest I don't think she'll survive the series. It might even be that Gendry has to give up his new found status as a Baratheon (thinking if he were to be offered legitimisation) in order to be with her?
  14. Right, so no chance of her being the same woman. I'll be honest I see the clues @Sweetsunray pointed out as interesting. But I'm not convinced they point to her being this Saera or indeed a descendant of her. They could! I wouldn't deny that. But equally, they could just be more hints that she was a Targaryen descendant. Which still works for her being descended from Aerion during his exile in Lys. And thus still possibly being Varys's sister. We have the Targ connection, the pleasure house connection, and the greyscale connection in all the women she mentioned. The only thing missing for Serra would be the Septa connection. Which admittedly is a point in favour of her having been descended from Saera. fAegon does have a soiled Septa caring for him. And Saera's sister committing suicide over an illegitimate pregnancy can be taken as a hint that Saera fled the MotherHouse due to a pregnancy. It certainly would not be unusual. I'm not swayed, but I do see there is a lot of merit in it. I still think Varys has to have a blood tie to fAegon to have gone to all this effort on his behalf. And his being Serra's sibling with them both being descended from a Targaryen gives that connection. Whether that Targareyn is Aerion Britghtflame or Saera doesn't really alter things enormously. but given that Aerion has a much more prominent role in the narrative to me feels more likely. because Saera's hints can just be hints at Serra's heritage being Targaryen full stop. The story feels much more that Illyrio took her from a pillow house and she was working there, rather than her owning it and if she descended from Saera she ought to be the one in charge. Given Saera was in charge it stands to reason her child would inherit. And Saera's was a pleasure house in Volantis so why would her daughter/granddaughter end up back on Lys? Especially given that the Lysene Pillow Houses are staffed by slaves. Also, the word Found is used when he's telling Tyrion about her, which to me implies that he was searching for her. Which is in line with his best friend Varys telling him something like..."I have a sister, we were separated as children the last I heard she was in a pillow house on Lys." And then the two of them deciding to go look for her with a view to liberating her from the life of being a sex slave. Given we know Varys was sold into slavery, and the pillow houses are staffed by slaves it stands to reason Serra would have been a slave too, which because Varys was sold is a hint in favour of them being siblings. Here is the quote. " Inside was a painted likeness of a woman with big blue eyes and pale golden hair streaked by silver. "Serra. I found her in a Lysene pillow house and brought her home to warm my bed, but in the end I wed her. " He says he bought her home to warm his bed, but in the end, he wed her. Which is him implying there was nothing special about her as such, which could be a cover for there being something very special about her indeed. The fact he found her implies he was searching for her and that belies the notion that he just casually wed her. Not to mention that straight after he tells Tyrion. "Me, whose first wife had been a cousin of the Prince of Pentos. The palace gates were closed to me thereafter, but I did not care. The price was small enough, for Serra." So the Prince of Pentos turned his back on illyrio for marrying Serra, which could be that a; Illyrio set his wife aside for Serra. or b; that Serra having been a slave was too much for the snobbish Prince to bear. And so he turned his back on him.
  15. @sweetsunray Ah! I had quite forgotten about their first duel. Yes to be continued is written all over their story and I am glad we have confirmation that they will meet back up. @SeanF I don't think they'd marry It is all in their song, “My featherbed is deep and soft, and there I’ll lay you down, I’ll dress you all in yellow silk and on your head a crown. For you shall be my lady love, and I shall be your lord. I’ll always keep you warm and safe, and guard you with my sword. And how she smiled and how she laughed, the maiden of the tree. She spun away and said to him, no featherbed for me. I’ll wear a gown of golden leaves, and bind my hair with grass, But you can be my forest love, and me your forest lass.” Arya doesn't want to be wed, and she doesn't want a castle or a Feather Bed. I don't think she'll go back to being a Lady in the traditional sense. I think she'll have a relationship with Gendry. But keep it on her terms. He has to accept that if he wants her he has to set aside his notions of class structure & the right way of doing things.