The Weirwoods Eyes

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About The Weirwoods Eyes

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    Must think of something Witty to say here.
  • Birthday 05/19/1981

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  1. Well, technically Beric does not have a wife either. though he does have a betrothed. But Beric has been kissed I think if I am recalling correctly about half a dozen or so times. And he tells us that his amnesia has been a progress, each time he loses a bit more of himself. this loss of one's self is not something which happens the very first time a person is raised.
  2. Jon and Val compendium.

    Just poking my toe in to keep current.
  3. TL;DR version, I think we can't trust a word MMD says cos she proves she is full of shit by using the fear powder and making grand but false statements - Only death can pay for life- Not true, as proven by Thoros. And the fact she is secretive regarding the spell by not only telling everyone to leave, and not under any circumstances come back into the tent, but also using the fear powder to ensure it. The fact her spell is absurdly elaborate with the blood and the shadows and the singing. The fact she specifically asks for a fire and we know Thoros breathed an actual flame into Beric because Beric breaths it into Cat in turn and Mel says there is a fire inside her. So the fire kiss must involve using flame. Well it all smacks of the wizard of Oz insisting no one look behind the curtain doesn't it! So I think MMD used the fire kiss to raise Drogo and simply used every trick up her sleave to appear as powerfull and frightening as possible in the face of most probably being killed by the dothraki after his death. in a bid to come across as too powerful to mess with.
  4. Here is the revised version of my write-up of the known magic in the series. It is from a thread about the Royces which went somewhat OT and in which I developed an idea regarding the Bolton's flaying and how that, in fact, could perhaps be a form of magic, namely the same magic the Faceless Men use when they wear the flayed faces of the dead. Which not only transforms the wearer into an exact likeness of the deceased but also grants them access to their memories. And I did indeed get around to writing up that Woods Witches idea too which I have linked for you at the bottom, just in case you decide you'd like to read it. Posted March 27 ยท Report post very interesting Seams. I've just been and re read my OP from my magic thread and I can see that at that time I had categorised the magics as Earth: Jojen swallows mud and gets a fever which leaves him with green dreams. Trees are of course connected to the earth, they grow out of it and take their nourishment from it.and the weirwoods, of course, enable the greenseers to see, Bran has to physically be in connection to a tree to see through its eyes and he has to consume the sap or its seed. BR is physically entwined with the tree. it is said some crannog men can breathe mud Air: Alys Rivers in the princess and the queen sees visions in Storm clouds. in the world book, we are told it was said the children of the forest could call upon the air to fight on their behalf Aeromancers, whatever these are. A form of magic practised still in Asshai. Certainly sounds like Air magic. Fire: Healing, MMD tells Dany there is great healing power in Fire magic, though she doesn't demonstrate it to Dany, she seems to imply she knows how to do it. Moqorro does heal Victarion's arm using Fire magic and he sings in an undulating voice whilst doing it Daenerys survives the Pyre, and some theories say she does this because MMD is casting a protection spell, a spell to protect from the effects of fire, She is singing in a high undulating voice. Much like Moqorro healing Vics arm. MMD casts a powder into the fire which sends people running in fear from the tent. the powder is seemingly activated by the fire, Mel later tells us in her POV chapter that red priests use such powders. Of course, the Red Priests use flames to see visions. Alys Rivers again uses cook fires to see much and more according to Aemond Targaryen Thoros brings Beric back to life with a special prayer (or spell) and breaths a flame into him, which rouses him to life Beric (not a red priest) simply breathes this flame into the lifeless body of Catelyn Stark, she rises and he dies, implying it is the fire itself doing the work, not the act of the priest (ie not through a god) or the words of the spell/prayer, though sure enough the prayer or spell could be necessary to create this very special flame? Dragons certainly seem to be magical and are undoubtedly connected to fire, they are described as fire made flesh in fact. Mel burns the eagle out of the sky. in Asshai there are Pyromancers listed, separately to Red Priests. wildfire - A substance made through alchemy, but which is much easier whilst magic has a strong presence in the world. Water: the hammer of the waters, the children of the forest apparently called up the sea itself in order to smash the arm of Dorne and halt the passage of the first men. the neck, again they children called upon the water element to sever the north, it did not fully work. the crannog men, apparently have the ability to run on water. the Rhoynish we learn in the world book could magically manipulate the waters of the Rhoyne to fight the Valyrians. They seemingly had great powerful water magic. the crannog men have a castle/castles which float about and disappear on the waters of the neck the great silver sea which existed where there is now the great grass sea was home to the fisher Queens whose palace floated continually about the shoreline of the huge lake. Alys again see's stuff in puddles, so that adds water to her list Blood & Shadow magic: There are Bloodmaeges in Asshai, and MMD tells Dany that what she is going to use to raise Drogo she learnt from a bloodmaege. She cuts the horse with an ancient looking glyph covered beaten copper blade and scares everyone out with the fire activated powder, she kills the stallion, but we know Rhaego dies as well, we do not know for certain if he dies directly due to the acts of MMD. ( I have since become more and more convinced that killing the stallion is just for show and it is a fact "Only death can pay for life is utter bollocks Thoros does not kill anyone to rasie Beric.) obviously, as I mentioned Bloodmaeges exist, they seem to be expert in blood magic. Valyrians seem to have used a combination of fire magic and blood magic, the Targaryens used this as their house words once they passed from a Valryian family to being a Westerosi house. The Dragon Binding horn seems to be a combo of fire and blood magic as it kills by burning the blowers inside/lungs out and one assumes the death/blood is what binds the Dragon to the owner. We are still unclear as to if and how this horn actually works. !!This is actually another example of Runic/Glyph magic such as we see in the Royce's armour. as well as being fire and blood-related. I think that only a Fire Wight can blow the horn. Fire for blood-Mel speaks of the fire inside her and we see with Beric that there is an actual flame he passes to cat. The magic MMD performs to raise Drogo may use shadows too, so I have combined these two magic's, maybe she was using two forms of magic to raise him, maybe the shadows where a separate spell, one to murder Rhaego in his mothers womb (have grown to believe the shadows area separate magic, performed to awe and add to the sense of foreboding and fear she is conjuring, and that MMD didn't kill Rhaego, but that he, in fact, died because he was a "dragon baby" we see several such births in the stories and none of them live beyond their births. One manages an hour. But it seems pretty clear these Targ Dragon Babies can't survive outside the womb. Maybe MMD conjured the shadows via the sperm of the Dothraki who raped her? or are they really the dead as she seems to tell Dany, either way it seems the raising of Drogo may involve both fire & blood and shadow. Or as I now suspect just fire magic (just the fire kiss in fact, but she isn't that great at it and she loses his consciousness.) and she's utilising her other skills to make her look even more impressive and dangerous. We are told of the powder(proof she's bluffing imo), and she specifically asks for a brazier, makes me think it serves a purpose in the spell, and it's not just that she wants a fire in the tent to warm it. MMD sings in an Ululating voice. Quite a lot of the magics in world seem to involve singing. and shadows are seen dancing in the tent. some do not seem human, so obviously some do, one is a great wolf (obviously brings the Starks to mind, though I'm not sure there is a connection) and a burning man, no sigil is a burning man as far as I know. The shadows dance around the bloody tent and we are told several times that there is fire during this chapter, which all contributes to a sense of rising mania, fire, singing which sounds inhuman, shadows dancing blood everywhere and fighting outside, Dany's labour pains are described in violent language and she dreads being taken into the tent and seems to know instinctively that the spell is killing her baby. (Again, I don't think the spell did kill him anymore, but certainly, dany in this instance thinks there is truly danger in her entering the tent against MMD's instructions.) Shadow babies, it seems that Melisandre who travelled to Asshai and learnt shadow binding there. When Stannis is going to fight Renly she has sex with him, and using his sperm draws his life force from him and gestates a shadow, which she births and which assassinates Renly for them, She repeats this magic to kill Cortney Penrose at Storms end. Shadow binders are a group of magic practitioners in Ashai, Quaithe is a Shadow Binder, she wears the red lacquered mask which distinguishes her as one, MMD and Melisandre are not shadow Binders but both have learnt and can utilise their learning in order to use the magics of shadow. Quithe also seems to use the glass candles which were of Valyrian origin, as can archmaester Marwyn. Who we know taught MMD and has been to Asshai himself. & who also says he has learnt shadowbinding. Glass candles, no one knows what makes these work, but I have included them here as they are a Valyrian artefact, maybe the candles use blood magic to work, or shadow magic perhaps? Maybe shadow magic is related to blood magic? it seems the shadows Melisandre births are created using Stannis's life force through his semen, when Dany has her house of the undying vision she see's a king with no shadow, which we widely interpret as being Stannis after Mel has taken his life force to create the assassins, she tells Jon he would give her great strong powerful ingredients with which to make magic, (sorry I was avoiding using any language which made it sound like she thinks Jon has super Maybe shadow magic isn't to do with blood magic maybe it is to do with the black stone? Maybe the black stone is a separate kind of magic altogether, maybe the black stone is the moon which shattered releasing the Dragons into the world? Skinchanging/Wargs: We first meet the Starks, who once they receive the Direwolf pups begin to form a bond with them each child seems to influence their pup to be like themselves and each wolf we know becomes part of the warg too, as GRRM has said in SSM's. We meet the starks and find this animal is their house sigil, and that the kings and lords in their crypt are depicted with a direwolf at his feet. Wear Starks historically wargs? have they always had the ability, with the direwolf itself being needed to awaken the ability? could Starks have connected to other animals too, were Lyanna and Brandon really half a horse themselves? A couple of Centaurs? were they warging their horses? we quickly find out the Starks are not alone in their ability we meet Orrel a Wildling who skinchanges an eagle Varamyr six skins who has various different animals, and through whom we learn a warg goes into his familiar after death Hagon who we do not meet but who taught Varymyr the rules of skinchanging and lived on in his old one-eyed wolf Borraq, with his great boar we also learn from the Wildlings that Skinchangers are more frequent north of the wall, where the first men blood is strong, or is it just where magic is still strong? is the wall really made of that black stone? and just coated in ice? Children of the forest were said to be able to call beasts to fight for them, and this hints that they were indeed skinchangers and in Asshai, again, we hear of shapechangers? Bran of course begins using Ravens once he meets BR, and can slip hodor, whom he knows well and has a good bond with Bloodraven obviously wargs Raven's and being as he is a Blackwood descendent from Raven tree hall, it seems probable or possible at least that Blackwood blood leans towards Ravens as their natural familiar, but likewise, Bloodraven seems to have used many animals to slip over his years. Arya, of course, slips a cat, whom she has been around a lot, which I think shows a bond is needed in order to inhabit an animal the first time. Sansa seems to be headed towards slipping a bird ; my guess is that it will be a Merlin. And may have already at the Eyrie when she "see's" Marliion in the sky cell. So, I'm now suspecting that people who can Skinchange can basically slip any animals, but that various families have aligned themselves with different animals. And I'll add my newer Bolton Skin reading magic into the Blood magic section I think. As it is necessary to spill blood to use it, and if it is a thing, and is basically the same as the FM's face wearing then I'd say given the info we get via Arya on that that it is definitly a form of blood magic. Another thing worthy of note is the Magic of Woodswitches; another thing I keep meaning to start a thread on. Again I think they're/were just using various magic forms. The one which strikes me is Nimble Dick telling Brienne that the wife of his folk hero (have forgotten his name) would kiss the decapitated heads of her husband's foes and place the now re-animated heads in a cave at the Whispers-giving it its name. Again I suspect this is the same kiss Thoros uses on Beric but without the religious claims. Here is the subsequent Woods Witches thread I started, if you want to read more. Personally I think it is well worth reading if you are interested in the various forms of magics in universe.
  5. Yes, the reason is so that anyone who she comes across treats her well and assists her out of loyalty to Ned. Her passage to the wall will go far smoother as Arya Stark than as no mark Jeyne pool. Why would she be sent to Eastwatch? if she arrives whilst Jon is down and out surely it makes sense to keep her at CB until he is awake again. If they believe her his sister, whom he risked all for why would they send her away as soon as she arrived? Ramsey is unlikely to arrive at CB hot on her heels, and word of his death during the battle of Ice may have reached CB by then anyway. Jon can't be dead for more than a day or so or he'd end up a semi-decomposed freak like Cat, unlikely as that has been done already and repeating yourself does not make a good story and he may not even be dead. Her importance may be to Arya's storyline, I've heard plenty of people argue this before. What is it about meeting Jeyne and hearing about LF's abuse of her that makes you think Arya would return to Westeros as a result? why would she care that much about the girl who bullied her and stood between her and her sister? enough to undergo another arduous journey without resources to provide food and comfort to exact revenge. Jeyne is Sansa's friend not Arya's. And Sansa has the prophecy to take down LF not Arya. Jeyne matters to Sansa not Arya, she recalls her friend numerous times and has the added guilt of having been spared her fate due to her higher birth. Plus LF would be right there for the offing with Sansa no one needs to go on a book long journey to exact revenge on him. As I say i've heard the argument that Arya will meet Jeyne and be inspired to return to Westeros but i find it weak and unconvincing. feel free to try to convince me though. And in your last paragraph, I agree. He is not going to abandon the NW, the hard work is at the wall. Stannis is on track to beat back the Freys and destroy the Bolton's. And has followed Jon's advice in order to win over the mountain clans, once he has taken WF the North can get behind the NW. Because Stannis is already on side and can spread the word re the Others. With both the LC ( remember Jon/Mormont already sent letters out but was largely ignored) and the notoriously straight-talking Stannis Baratheon imploring people to pay attention, this shit is really happening there is far more chance of the northern lords listening. And as I said we already know Sansa and LF will arrive at WF at some point because of the Snowcastle scene, so it makes sense that they take advantage of hearing of Stannis having taken the castle and heading North, either once they have dealt with the Tyrion situation, and hoping Stannis will follow protocol and hand her the castle or I feel more likely once they hear Stannis succumbed to a wound or illness and WF is wide open for the taking. Setting her up to re-build the castle with LF's cash and enact the prophecy once Jon rocks up to ask for help and tells all re Jeyne.
  6. Like I said, it just does not fit with his character to walk out on the watch.As for him seeing they are doomed to be destroyed anyway. He is the type who would rather go down with them than abandon them. As for refusing to work with the wildlings, whilst the watch are mostly uncomfortable with it it is only a handful that are directly taking action to fight against the idea. you seem to forget that the vast majority of them just voted Jon as LC. The attackers are only a handful out of what 200 men? Why? why is leaving the wall the only way to save the realms of men? What purpose does it actually serve and what can he achieve as a deserter that he can not achieve as LC? You do the entire story a great disservice when you assume that things will happen as they have done in the TV program, the TV program has enormous plot holes, frequently going against characters personalities, and ignores information and events from previous seasons in order to add "drama" and take short cuts. If Jon were to walk out on the NW he would make himself a deserter and thus forfeit his own life. Approaching those northern lords for help would be pointless if instead of listening to him they behead him for desertion. The books are NOT the show. Only a half dozen or so NW men are involved in the assassination attempt out of what 200? iirc. so it is hardly as if the majority are against him, hell they just voted for him, despite the wildlings. It isn't speculation though as basically, you are arguing that things will pan out in the same way as they have done in the TV program, which is unlikely due to the fact the TV program is a crock of shite. you have never given thought to Jon being a trained as a warg? seriously? So you think that what? Only Bran out of 6 kids will ever be fully in charge of his animal? Come on.... why would a writer give one of his main characters a dire wolf who he can be inside of and not develop that aspect of his characterisation? Why would he send him an older skinchanger, name the character, name the animal and have him call him brother if he does not intend on having that character play a role in the main character's story? Utterly absurd mate. What do you think Boraq is there for? yet another skinchanger to have work against Jon? come on, we've been down that rd twice already that would not make litterary sense. Jon has wrestled with his warg side throughout the books both rejecting it and loving Ghost. People see his ability and he wishes they would not, he is disturbed by his warg side but has been slowly coming to terms with it, what he needs narratively at this point is a tutor. Because having Ghost is a part of him which is not going away and which can actively help him in the battle to come. Who knows? well anyone with a half decent grasp on how story telling works.
  7. Thoros is not a fire wight? He has never been raised from the dead, nor has he ever been married, and he knows full well that he is from Myr and that he was gifted to the Red Temple there because his parents had so many children that when he was born they felt unable to afford to raise him.
  8. Can I just clarify what you said there? OK, so this is what I get when I dissect that second sentence you wrote. Please correct me if I am misinterpreting. I think it is not indicating a romance - It tells us what type Jon likes - Therefore as Arya is that type he may desire her. This seems awfully contradictory. In the post by the fattest leech she quoted GRRM and his words made it pretty clear to me that he no longer intends a romance between the two and wants the reader to revise those early hints, such as him comparing Ygritte to Arya physically as just being about Jon being familiar and comfortable with the unkept look of wildling women through his little sister. I doubt anyone who has read any of GRRM's works could be seriously under the illusion that he curbs what he wishes to write as some people may be put off by this. There isn't a taboo the man has not touched. Also, what you have said here; the bolded section. Is a complete mislead on your behalf. Here is the quote of when Jon likens Ygritte to Arya physically. This is from his initial meeting with her, in ACOK. He has just met her, the Stonesnake is sat beside them rifling the dead wildlings pockets and he has not so much as even considered having sex with her, let alone is about to. And this is the only other reference I could find, it is from early on in ASOS, again well before they begin a sexual relationship, and certainly not when they are about to have sex. So no neither refrence seems peculiar, he is saying that despite being probably about 20 years old she looks to be as skinny as his sister who was 9 the last time he saw her. That is hardly an erotic thought. More a commentary upon the malnutrition suffered by the Wildlings, after all it comes fast on the heels of him noting her bandy legs, another indicator of poor health. And that she reminds him a little of the only other female person whom he has met thus far in his life who was not constantly well kept, bathed in floral water and wearing silks. Arya. Who as GRRM said, gives the look that she may have birds nesting in her hair.
  9. Thank you SO very much for this post @The Fattest Leech . I really appreciate the time you have gone to to dig through SSM I know what a thankless chore it can be. Especially when looking for the older less common ones. For me, this post has ruled Jon/Arya out entirely! There is no substitute for a first person account. And it most definitely seems that he abandoned the idea of them getting together entirely quite a long time ago.
  10. Tell you what, I've altered things a bit from my initial write up which I did in 2014 after the release of the world book, and I wrote that into the OP from my magic thread in a post a few weeks back on a topic re-the Royces. You can probably find the magic thread easy enough on my profile. But if you like I can dig out that revised version from that other thread. I have to get my bairns off to school and i have a body combat class this morning but If you don't mind waiting I can get on it this afty.
  11. Oh, people LOVE to bandy that one about too, she's gone mad. Don't ya know!
  12. You're not going to get very far with me by speaking as if your thoughts are an absolute and certain to happen. Just so you know.. Look, Jon is definitely not going to be LC of the NW at the end of this story. He absolutely does have a bigger destiny than that. But neither is he going to just walk away from them. One of his main tutors in his story has been Aemon, who told him a story all about how he was tested and stayed, Jon has been twice tested and has remained loyal to the watch. He bases large segments of his own self-worth and personal value on loyalty and abandoning the NW does not align with that. When thinking about the future of the books it serves us to think logically about what aligns with both the needs of the story and what we know of the characters. Jon has done a lot of growing up and is no longer the boy who would abandon his post to go fight with his brother. He is the man who sees the bigger picture and understands the watches true meaning. A handful of rebels who quite probably will be dead or in the ice cells by the time he comes too are not enough of a reason to leave his post. Leaving the rest of the NW leaderless in their greatest hour of need. It just does not fit with his personality. And whilst I agree that being raised back from the dead does definitely alter a person, people vastly over egg that. Look at the evidence Beric tells us himself how it changes you but the effects get worse each time he has risen, the shell of himself he feels he is now is the culmination of IIRC over half a dozen kisses. Catelyn also changed but as I said we don't actually know how much as she barely speaks, she is certainly more ruthless and gives far fewer fucks about anything. But frankly, given what she's been through anyone could become more hang happy in her circumstances. She's definitely not the same as old Cat, but neither is she the raving cackling lunatic many like to imagine her as. And as I have explained Mellisandre is a candidate for being a fire wight and she is certainly not a mindless zombie bent on destruction nor is Moqorro. As to Stannis, I expect him to smash the Boltons. And take WF. And for Jon to be waylaid at CB for some time because there is a reason Borraq turned up in Dance, he needs a tutor in skinchanging. And he needs time to get to grips with how to warg of his own volition. Which is why I have always felt him actually dying at all is not a certainty. They are only stab wounds, and we only know for certain there were 3, one is just a scratch equivalent to a shaving cut, lots of blood but not deep at all, one in the gut - potentially lethal but not automatically so, the other in the shoulder. We do not know what clothing he had on. Nor the length of the blades used. Could be a hunting knife, could be a 2" paring knife. There are numerous people at the wall who may be capable of healing him, and an entire tower full of Maesters equipment, Clydass who spent what a decade - two? assisting Maester Aemon, being his eyes. Morna the Woods Witch, Mel with fire healing, Val who may have her own skills. But even if he dies and Mel raises him, he still isn't likely to just walk out on the NW the same day. And his position as LC especially once Stannis has defeated the Boltons grants him gravitas to ask for help. Where the help is needed AT THE WALL. I do think he'll head South to WF but not instantly. Jeyne is on her way to the wall, and I think he has to hear her story. She may arrive whilst he is convalescing, and speak with him then. But she's going north for a purpose one which would be lost if when she gets there he's upped and fucked off. Jeyne is the only person who has information pertaining to LF and his true nature. She's got the scars to prove it! Personally, I think it likely Jon will go to WF as the LC of the NW once Sansa and LF arrive there. With Stannis dead of a battle wound or such like. I think they head north and take WF, where she presides and LF helps her to rebuild it, as foreshadowed in the snowcastle scene. Jon goes to visit once he gets word in order to ask for help at the wall fighting the Others, and tells her everything Jeyne told him regarding LF. Leading to her having him arrested and off with his head. Thus fulfilling her prophecy. I think Arya is going to head back to WF too, and that Bran is whispering to her in her dreams via Nymeria to do so. I fully expect the Stark family to be reunited by the end of TWOW. I just don't think Jon is abandoning his post in Jon I.
  13. I think in the thread is best, given that you are arguing for them as a couple in this thread. I'm sure I am not the only person curious as to why you think there is such strong evidence.
  14. Assuming he is raised early in TWOW his parentage is unlikely to be out at that point, given that the battle of ice is almost certainly happening early on in the book he won't have dealt with the Bolton's Stannis will have. And having abandoned the NW he will struggle to get the respect and allegiance of the Northern lords. It makes far more sense to remain at the wall, and build upon the relationship he has with Stannis and the Northern lords using his influence as a respected LC of the NW. I absolutely don't think he's staying in the NW long-term, but the first part of TWOW is not the time for the watch to disband or his parentage to come out.
  15. Perhaps you would like to read my thoughts on Magic, I have done a lot of work on looking at the various magics and magic users and to write it all up here right now would take me a long time. but I can link you my thoughts if you like? Basically the TL;DR version is that I think MMD used the fire kiss and killing the stallion was just showmanship. I maybe misinterpreted the meaning of the post I was responding to in that I thought they were implying that the effects of the alterations caused by raising differed depending upon who did it. Because they said the extent of Jon's potential evilness might depend upon if Thoros or mel brings him back. I discussed my thoughts upon the nature of both Beric & Cats changed persona's already so I shan't repeat myself. But basically that is what I meant when I said we have no proof that the magic user effects the personality who they are raising.