Humble Maester

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  1. You got it mostly right until here, but the part that follows about Renly's motivations is 100% incorrect, motivations that mostly absolve Renly of any assholeness of usurping what he thought was his flesh and blood. As I quoted above, when Renly and Eddard are talking about Robert dying, Renly states that and If we ignore the fact that even here Renly was prepared to 1) let Joffrey ascend the throne after his "father" and 2) he was willing to have Ned play the primary part afterwards as Lord Protector, thus proving he wasn't a power hungry dolt, the main point I would wish to underline (and bold!) is that what he feared was Cersei, not Joff or Tywin. Okey, so what of it you may ask, maybe Renly was lying about the threat of Cersei to force Ned to act? Well Cersei, in Feast confirms that she was planning to go after Robert's brothers It was obvious for both Renly and Cersei that they were going to be coming to blows sooner or later. As I stated in a post above Renly's moves to disarm Cersei included: 1) Getting Margeary to be Queen instead of her (a poor plot at best, I admit), 2) Getting Eddard to take charge so that Cersei could not (a plan that may have well worked if Ned wasn't a dumbdumb) and 3) only after all else had failed rebelling, which to get Tyrell support also forced him to don the crown. From Cersei's point of view we do not know how exactly she had planned to rid herself of Robert's "pestilential brothers" but I am sure if her hand had not been forced she would had come up with something. Thus it becomes obvious that Renly's "piece of shit" behaviour in going against the heirs he believed to be true heirs was not, indeed, because he was a power hungry dolt but because his own survival was at stake. Cersei would not had allowed a lord paramount hostile to her to remain so close to her base of power, and she had the perfect tool, Joffrey, to get rid of him. Well I think the reason most people who don't feel hugely invested in any single character think that Stannis was an asshole is not because he killed Renly (all's fair in love and war after all) but because he completely abandoned his brother and king to be killed by a plot he was more or less aware of, and then only started acting when it was guaranteed to bring him to war against his younger brother. Renly stayed in King's Landing doing what he could to help Robert (and to curtail Cersei's influence), Stannis fled to save his ass.
  2. I think the answer to this question is pretty obvious "No, there is no indication Renly knew of Robert's children not being his". First to the point that @Lucius Lovejoy presented, did Ned inform Renly of what he knew? This is the last Ned saw of Renly as far as we can tell. Ned refuses to act, or to inform Renly, as long as Robert was alive. The next we hear of Renly: And of course we know Ned never got another chance to tell Renly what was going on, being beheaded and all. Renly left the city believing Cersei had in her hands the rightful heir. If Ned had told him the truth, and he had believed it, the two would had acted or at least discussed the situation according to that situation the last they saw one another but no. The next we time we see Renly discussion his brother's children is when Stannis arrives: In his meeting with Stannis he attests that while he believes his brother has made up the story it doesn't really matter either way, as he is already committed to fighting the Lannisters. Again, if he believed/knew of the incest he might had as well admitted it as he was not in the war as rightful heir of Robert but as the strongest contender against Lannisters. So yet again, I don't think this indicates he had any prior knowledge. Also it seems most of the people in this thread (though not all) go by the whole mistaken idea of "Renly wanted to be king because being king would be great/preferable/cool/etc." It is obvious from Renly's prior actions that he did not have any great desire for the throne before he was forced into rebelling. His first move was replacing Cersei with Margeary due to her being a clear and present threat to Renly (as Cersei confirms in her own chapters), his second move was to take his brother's children under control with Ned as the protector, again to minimize Cersei's power. And only his third option was to raise his own banners and make his bid to the throne, after Ned had been executed and Cersei had more-or-less consolidated her power in King's Landing. And, as a sidenote, at this point Stannis was still in his self-imposed exile on Dragonstone, not making any moves that Renly could had interpreted as Stannis rising up against Lannisters (other than gathering few thousand men). Renly did what he thought he had to stop Cersei from taking his title and his head and when Stannis actually started moving it was too late to stop the Renlytrain. Choo choo!
  3. I am as Tywin fan-boy as any but even I don't think he could had pulled a victory in that situation, which is obviously why he did not go against the winners of Trident. If we are considering a situation of Westerlands just rebelling after the battle he could had possibly fought them to a stalemate on his own home field but even that would had been difficult after Robert would had more or less unified the realm (well unless Tyrells joined him but why would they, they would had had about as much reason to fight on at that point as Tywin did, close to none). I would also have to disagree with @Megorova's assessment above. Tywin had rushed to Kingslanding so he most likely did not have huge amount of supplies to survive a siege if it came to that. But the bigger issue for Tywin would had been that it would not had come to siege, Ned's vanguard was so close behind Tywin that he did not have time to take control of the city before Ned entered it, and thus the victors of Trident would had likely been able to bear whole brunt of their force without need for a siege. The amount of men and supplies he could had gotten in Red Keep would had been far too few, and I doubt he knew about the wildfire caches either. The relevant quote:
  4. Its for both reasons of narrative and for their actions: Tywin: Narratively Tywin is a villain because he is a villain for most of the "heroes" of the series. Ned does not hide his distain and Tyrion hates him. He fights and destroys valiant Robb. Etc. And of course Tywin is well known for: massacring rebel vassals, ordering gang-rape, ordering murder of children, ordering pillaging of peasants etc. Not that he is the only one but he is the only one whose handiwork we witness in the series first-hand. Jaime: Narratively, again, Ned "the hero" shows dislike towards him from early on. Although through Tyrion he does get a bit of a softer side. And of course he wasn't a "good guy" either, killing his King (though we learn he had his reason) and being an antagonist to Ned, injuring him and killing his men. Cersei: Early on she is another one of the "Lannisters" that are like flies buzzing around Robert and also an early antagonist to the hero Ned. Later on she goes Aerys-level insane more or less. She is the one actually most like a villain of the Lannisters if you ask me. Joff: Well ok, Joff was pretty much there too but he was a child. Still even he, clearly a creature of his mother, spent most of the first time making Lannisters look bad. Tommen&Myrcella: They be okey! Tyrion: Black sheep of the family and thus not a villain, more of a hero. Hates his father, dislikes his sister, those villainous curs. Of course not quite as good of a guy as he seems, especially in the later books. Even as someone who considers Tywin his favourite I can easily see why Tywin and his clan would be seen as the villains of the series, at least in the Game-aspect.
  5. Cheers! I think the Tywin-Tyrion relationship is one of the more interesting ones in the books to interpret and analyse, largely due to us getting nearly all the information about it from the fan-favorite Tyrion, who, while having real issues with his father, always sees everything his father does or says through the worst possible point of view. I can easily understand, after Tyrion keeps calling his father out on literally everything, why so many people think of Tywin as an inhumane monster. On the other hand if we "listen" to the other people around Tywin, take what Tyrion says with the understanding of the deep dislike he has for his father, and consider what Tywin was actually doing, then we can construct a more accurate picture of a Tywin as a harsh and extremely demanding father who was loathe to show emotions but still put his family and especially those who met his expectations first. After all he was making Tyrion permanent member of the council due to his obvious skill, while planning to ship Cersei away for her screwups.
  6. I suppose there are at least two possibilities. Its possible that Tywin felt same as Randyll Tarly, that it would be unbecoming of his son to be servant for others, though I think the more likely option is that Tyrion simply preferred the lifestyle he had. It was not like in the case of Samwell that his father would had been forcing great expectations of a heir on him, so he was free to do much as he liked as long as he did not do anything so notorious that the word would get out. He was free to read, to drink, to whore with his father's money, as long as he was discrete about it. Pretty decent life for a dwarf in that society. Actually third option, maybe maesterdom simply isn't open for dwarves, or they would have difficulties performing the tasks?
  7. "The big mystery" does not mean its the only mystery, just that its the most significant one, you know? Plenty of room for other mysteries. I think a good deal of ASOIAF readers would agree that Jon's parentage is the biggest one, though. And I think if GRRM indeed asked D&D about the answer to that mystery as a test to see if they understood the series, then he probably agrees on its importance too. Also I am interested in that quote about Ned's height too. I tried to look for it myself on search of ice and fire but no luck. Please provide.
  8. I guess you managed to say in few words what I spent many to say. Oh well. That's the question, isn't it? I am not an expert on Braavos related matters but I don't think we know what kind of ties exist between those three great institutions of Braavos. We really haven't gotten as thorough a picture of the power dynamics in Braavos as we have in King's Landing, for example. I have read theories on these forums about how any and all of those parties are cooperating for a wide range of purposes but for the most part those theories have been based on conjecture. I guess the answer is, who the hell knows
  9. The Iron Bank, while a very important institution in Braavos, does not represent all of Braavos, or that is at least my take on it. The bank's is not interested in dynastic squabbles but in getting back the debt Cersei very unwisely declined to pay. So if there was a party that had a decent change of victory and that would take on all the debt Robert had incurred, then presumably they'd support that party. I don't think such a party with high enough chance of success exists, though, so I doubt they'd pick another horse if and when Stannis fails. I don't think Doran will be in any position to pay the debt even if his faction won, not being a contender himself, so they'd rather support Aegon or Daenarys, though anti-dragon bias may come into that.
  10. I am fairly certain engaging someone who thinks Tywin would had ordered Tommen to be gang-raped in a conversation will never lead to the two of us reaching an accord on the topic of what Tywin was but, well, one reason being an unapologetic Tywin fanboy is fun is because there is so much unearned hate directed towards him (on top of all the well deserved hate Tywin gets). It is true that before the WotFK Tywin largely left Tyrion on his own, though he did bankroll his rather luxurious lifestyle, whoring and all, with his personal servants as long as he was willing to stay in Westeros. After Tyrion proved himself useful by getting himself out of Lysa's clutches with some troops loyal to him, Tywin did apparently start seeing more worth in him. And I am fairly sure Tywin was satisfied with how Tyrion handled the situation in King's Landing if it was not for him threatening his own family to protect a whore he had brought with him against the explicit orders of Tywin. And as I mentioned before he did get amply rewarded for his good work in the city, even after his screw ups, even if he was himself bitter about not getting to stay as the Hand, which had been explicitly stated to be a temporary position, and not getting a loving wife on top of getting one of the most prestigious matches in the Seven Kingdoms while being a disfigured dwarf. I am loath to comment on any of your more colorful (and, to be frank, idiotic and non-text based) claims but I am interested, which family member did Tywin have gang-raped or whipped? I might be having temporary lapse of memory but I thought that the prestige of those who shared his name was pretty much the most important think for him? He was willing to let Tyrion get away with murdering his nephew, the king, even after how much he didn't personally like Tyrion, just to avoid a Lannister losing his head publicly. Or if you are going to say Tysha, okey, I don't think anyone considered her to be a Lannister :|
  11. I don't think there was any very effective defense of the royal children against Clegane and Lorch who were scaling the walls, the whole situation seemed fairly chaotic, so there might not had been anyone to take them away. And good point is, where were they going to take them anyways, the war was lost. But it is clear that fighting was going on even after Aerys had been killed, and that Jaime commanded his father's men to spare any who would wish to yield after presumably hearing this.
  12. Which Tywin does admit when Tyrion is whining about not getting enough pats on his back: Before this Tywin has, by the way, multiple times inquired about Tyrion's well being and told him he visited him multiple times when he was at his worst and unconscious after the battle. Tyrion of course blows this whole conversation by ending it by demanding that he is given Casterly Rock, after which Tywin reminds him that Tyrion is definitely not a man worthy of it, not just because of what he is but also because what he did. Continued by the real beef... I am not saying Tywin would had been ready to give the Rock to Tyrion if he hadn't done exactly what Tywin warned him not to do but I am pretty sure he would had at least received a bit more credit for what he had done.
  13. I don't think we can really make any accurate predictions for much more than the duration of the Tarbeck-Reyne rebellion and its immediate aftermath, as Tywin had such a significant, probably the most significant, role in this the history of Westeros from that rebellion until the beginning of the books, so its possible that pretty much everything could had changed. With regards the rebellion if the only significant change in the battle between Lannister forces and Reynes was Tywin's dead, then I think the Reynes would had probably survived their rebellion though seriously weakened. I don't think Kevan, who presumably would had taken control, would had been ruthless nor ingenious enough to use a river to deal with all the Reynes in the way Tywin did. Thus Tytos would had most likely had enough time to intervene but I doubt he would had let the Reynes with a slap on the wrist after they had killed his heir while in rebellion, and at this point they would had already lost the rebellion on the field. Thus I think their threat in Westerlands would had been greatly weakened, though with Tytos' weak rule the situation in the west would had hardly grown stable but I don't think there was imminent threat of a rebellion either, especially if Kevan had proven himself after Tywin died. Kevan himself would probably not be quite as ambitious ruler as Tywin after Tytos' dead so who knows what he would do but I do think he had it in him to be much better than his father at the very least. Although I do see the possibility of Tywin's death collapsing Lannisters, one must remember he did not have the reputation back then as he did later on and thus the morale from his loss might not had been that bad if Kevan pulled through.
  14. To be fair, Tyrion does do his utmost to screw up every opportunity he gets to show Tywin his ability. I am not even going to get into his childhood marriage and the tragic and horrific end that came to but even in King's Landing he did exactly what Tywin had told him not to do, to not take his prostitute surrogate-lover to court which ended up with Tyrion making threats against his own family to protect the prostitute. Any good will Tyrion might had gained with Tywin for his apt handling of the situation in King's Landing went mostly down the drain with that. Also Tyrion would had lost the city and his life if it was not for his father and the Tyrells arriving to kick Stannis' ass. Although Tywin did award Tyrion with one of the most important positions in the realm and a wife of great prestige even after that, so who knows. Tywin probably does recognize than even after all of Tyrion's screw ups Tyrion is still a Lannister that Tywin can have use for. Well at least until the alleged regicide but that's something only Jaime could get away with.
  15. That's just from the wiki synopsis but if I recall correctly its accurate.