Smoke317

Arthur’s camps were orderly in the South because he was dealing with disciplined knights & soldiers. He’s had to adapt to how the Free Folk live since joining them. They are much more chaotic and less structured. But somehow Mance (Arthur) has still found a way to do the impossible and unite all of them. And I think if Arthur believes in the prophecy of Jon being the promised prince, he would willingly go North and begin the process of uniting the Wildlings. Basically establishing Jon’s army in the War for the Dawn. Imo, I think it also sets up the strong possibility that Mance sent the pink letter in an effort to entice Jon to bring the Wildling army to Winterfell where he will eventually reveal to Jon his true lineage down in the crypts of Winterfell. I think the Daynes are caretakers of Dawn and the chosen protectors of the Promised Prince(s). Ashara chose to go with Aegon as a caretaker under the guise of Lemore or she could be Quaithe guiding Danaerys, and Arthur chose to go up North with Jon. Part of me still thinks (hopes) Dawn is in Lyanna’s tomb and Mance (Arthur) is gonna reveal to him his destiny as the one who will bring the Dawn. How cool would it be to see Mance training Jon in how to use a 2 handed Greatsword? But what if the twist is that “the promised prince” was actually a promise made to the Others that they would be given a Prince who would become their King and the Children & Men reneged on the deal? That could be why they tested Waymar in the prologue. To see if he was their Promised One. He wasn’t. Jon with Dawn will pass the test and will ultimately make the sacrifice and become the True Nights King or King of the Others and lead them back to the Lands of Always Winter.

Would an army consisting of every wildling north of the wall be big enough to surround Jon?

Is North of the Wall far enough away?

On the topic of “Starkcest”, do you think the Varamyr prologue chapter was foreshadowing what was to come for the Stark kids with their warging abilities & the “unwritten” warg rules? We saw Bran break one of those rules by feeding while warging. Even feeding on human flesh. One of the other rules was mating while warged into your wolf. Do you think there’s a chance that Jon and/or Arya or Bran could break this rule? Regardless of if you do or don’t, what effect could breaking these rules have on them as characters? Also, do you think we’re ultimately gonna get a Jon & Val pairing? During my initial reading of ADWD, I was really excited to see those 2 get together.

It’s been a while since I’ve read the books, but it really seems like the answers to Dany’s “prophecy’s of three” are written right there in the text or is that too straightforward? She asks to be shown because she doesn’t understand and then they proceed to give her the visions. So can each vision be tied to a prophecy?

A lot of people feel that GRRM has abandoned the Jon/Arya angle and instead is gonna push the Jon/Sansa angle. But your theory still works if Sansa is in charge of the North and refuses to be a part of the 7 kingdoms under Dany’s rule (which also happened in the show).

Interesting. Why will she want to kill Arya?

I imagine the Lands of Always Winter will be explored in Bran’s chapters. He’ll be the one warging Ravens or whatever animal is needed to do his reconnaissance. If Ghost goes beyond the wall, I could see him crossing paths with the wildling skin changer who warged into his 1 eyed wolf for the last time. Maybe Ghost will claim that pack as his own and eventually form a super pack with Nymeria’s Riverland pack? Talk about “a time for wolves”…

It’s you that can’t be taken seriously.

I wonder if the 2 arcs he’s “maybe” speaking of are connected by location? Like Dany & Tyrion or Brienne & Jaime? Arianne & Jon Con?

You seem to be more in tune with the books (been some years since my last reading). So if not Stannis, who do you think wrote the pink letter? And if Ramsey, you feel it was clearly a fake and he was lying, since you still feel Stannis will sacrifice Shireen. So, in your opinion, what was Ramsey hoping to accomplish? I’m sure you’ll provide factual evidence from the text to dispute my idea, but my other option besides Stannis being the author was Mance. Mance knows all the details contained within the letter as well. And he also has motivation of getting Jon to rally the wildlings and bring them to Winterfell (where he could reveal himself to still be alive and hoping to reclaim his position as wildling leader). But the problem will be they’ve found a new leader… Remember Mance glamoured as Rattleshirt gave Jon a good thrashing while they were practicing at Castle Black. I can see them having a rematch with Mance expecting a repeat performance, but this changed more wolf like Jon will win the duel and solidify his place as the wildlings new leader. I guess I’m clearly having a hard time figuring out Ramsay’s motivation behind the pink letter if he is indeed the author. Who are some other candidates or do you just feel it truly is Ramsey?

First, you rule out the wildlings & Mel sacrificing Shireen but then call my idea of Selyse & Shireen fleeing the chaos at Castle Black far fetched. Well Shireen has to get to Stannis in order to be sacrificed right? Maybe it won’t happen that way but I don’t think it’s far fetched at all. And maybe only them escaping, and not Mel, is what leads to Stannis sacrificing Shireen in some last ditch effort because he doesn’t have his spiritual advisor and all he know’s is “king’s blood” works and those damn crows will probably be squawking “King” in his ear. I also think the pink letter fits into Stannis’ storyline very well. If he sent the pink letter in the hopes of getting Jon & the wildlings off the sidelines and into the fight, then in a way he would be indirectly responsible for Jon’s murder by sending him the bogus letter. It could be very karmic that the pink letter, if written by Stannis, ends up being the thing that caused his wife and daughter to flee to him in the middle of his desperate military situation and ultimately placing her on site to be a sacrificial candidate. Justin Massey will probably hide Asha (his 1st choice) and he’ll turn to Shireen out of desperation I’m gonna re-read Theon & Asha’s chapters from Winds. I feel like Theon being sacrificed is gonna coincide with Jon’s resurrection or his spirit and body reuniting. Or it could likely happen at the same time or cause something bad happening for Stannis’ cause. Like maybe the Karstarks escaping while he’s out on the island sacrificing Theon? Then maybe Stannis, frustrated by the Old Gods not helping his cause with Theon’s sacrifice, returns later and burns Shireen along with the Weirwood. I could see all of this happening in the first 3rd of Winds. Basically, showing Stannis’ situation spiraling downward from the pink letter to him burning his daughter. The Weirwoods have eyes and the North Remembers. They remember Stannis & Mel burning weirwood trees. Plus they know he’s not the real promised one. It’s time for the Old Gods & the North to put this false Southern pretender down and make way for the truly promised King in the North who gonna lead mankind’s defense against the Others.

I don’t think it’s far fetched to see Selyse & Shireen flee Castle Black headed for Stannis after Jon’s attack. As someone that also thinks Stannis could potentially be the author of the pink letter (in the hopes of getting Jon to rally the wildlings to his cause), I still think Theon’s sacrifice could be orchestrated by Bloodraven with the goal of resurrecting Jon or helping Jon in some way. Maybe the sacrifice somehow costs Stannis the battle and Jon will be the one who will come down from Castle Black and liberate Winterfell. I also initially thought Lady Stoneheart was gonna resurrect Jon via the Red God magic but I think it will have more impact if the person she ends up breathing life into is Jaime. The guy who jump started Bran’s 3EC arc by pushing him out of the window. He also has been tied to Catelyn throughout the story. She had opportunities to kill him but maybe his end game is ironically gonna be to protect Bran? I know the changing hair color & funeral pyre are fan fiction. It wasn’t something I expected George to do but I still hope Jon isn’t just gone be another Red God zombie. I’d like to see some Northern Magic play a role in his resurrection. We’ve read about Bran having a vision of a sacrifice in front of a Weirwood tree. Whether it’s to resurrect Jon or enhance Bran’s powers, I’d like to see the Magic of the Old Gods play a bigger part in the narrative. Maybe it’ll be the warging into Ghost that will differentiate Jon from Beric & LSH? And when Jon is resurrected, he’ll have full Warging powers?

I was excited to hear George say that things were changing organically and some major themes that he may have told the show runners could still wind up happening differently in the books. I’m hoping Jon’s resurrection or rebirth is one of them. My idea of how it happens plays into your Euron & Dany theory. Dany sacrificed a witch (holy figure) and her son with King’s blood (Rhaego perhaps inadvertently) to wake dragons. For Jon’s awakening, I hope it’s done by Val & the Wildlings & not Mel. Not Mel directly anyway. Mel gave them motivation for payback when she burned Mance. I could see the wildlings strapping Mel (holy figure) & Shireen (King’s blood) to Jon & the rest of the dead’s funeral pyre. And when the ashes are cleared away, the somehow unburnt Jon Snow, who was murdered, is dead and the yet unnamed Aemon Targaryen is reborn. He’ll have a streak of platinum in his naturally dark hair and some darker than the darkest purple eyes (to offset his future brother in arms Gerold “Darkstar” Dayne). I’d imagine the Wildlings would quickly fall in line behind their new King. Selyse & Shireen could even manage to escape Castle Black to Stannis (so he could still eventually burn her himself) and Mel alone could be captured? This opens the door for the possibility of Bloodraven influencing things in order to sync up Stannis sacrificing Theon (King’s blood) to the Weirwood tree and the Wildlings sacrificing Mel (holy figure) and these being the catalysts for Jon’s resurrection through a bit of Northern Magic mixed with the Red God Magic with Mel actually embracing the flames and praying for the rebirth of Azor Ahai with her own death. In Euron’s sample chapter we see him sacrificing Aeron (holy figure) and many other holy figures plus his own unborn son (his king’s blood). Maybe his spells raise that dragon egg that he alleges he threw overboard? Imagine us witnessing Euron raising that egg from the ocean in the middle of a sea battle from Aeron’s pov? That could be a legendary chapter in ASOIAF history. Although, it’s more likely that the horn & his Valyrian armor are linked. The dragon that hears the horn will be bonded to whoever is wearing the matching armor. That dragon flies to Euron. So either way we could read about Euron tearing things up in a sea battle with a dragon at his command. I think Euron is that dark force that’s gonna upset the three dragons (Dany, Aegon, Aemon) prophecy and potentially bring down the wall. He either kills Aegon or he somehow gets the Iron Fleet & potentially a dragon caught up in a Hardhome type situation? He’d make a prime target for any Other seeking a dragon & ships (to just sail the dead around the wall). Oh yeah, he’s also got some badass Valyrian steel armor to make a potential “Boss” Other/Night King impervious to Valyrian steel and in control of a dragon. I still get hyped thinking about the possibilities. I think George still has some great things in store for us readers in The Winds of Winter that will vary drastically from the HBO series. I really think he’s re-found his motivation to finish Winds by just finally deciding to completely change some major things that the show butchered and really emphasize the other parts that they cut out. With the Jon Snow show getting his blessing, he seems to be saying he wasn’t happy with the way GOT’s stuck the landing with his characters. So he probably feels justified in creating an entirely new ending and entirely different paths to that ending. HBO doesn’t care. The money from the original series is already banked. Him creating an entirely new ending even justifies them to reboot the series in 10-15 years as the definitive GRRM version.

Book. Show made it Loras.

I liked Battle of the Bastards but this was the best episode in Thrones history in my opinion. Not a dull scene involved. Everyone's acting was on point. Damn what a way to end the season.

So since Rhaegar & Arthur were best friends, I can see them discussing the great prophecies of their houses. They realize that the Targaryen prophecy is a spin off of the Dayne prophecy. Dayne is a much older house than Targs but both share Valyrian blood... So they come to the conclusion that the promised one will be the sword of the morning and the Dayne's have been caretakers of the sword until the true Sword of the Morning will arise again. Jon is that promised one. That makes good sense to me. So there could be a letter from Rhaegar and Dawn in Lyanna's crypt explaining who Jon is and what/who he must become.

Lyanna clearly mouthed "his name is..." Also I think it was pretty damn striking that Ned clearly stands the Greatsword DAWN at the foot of the bed... I know it's probably R+L=J but I'm still holding out hope that Arthur Dayne is Jon's father and DAWN will be what Jon finds in Lyanna's crypt. He is the Sword of the Morning. The one promised to battle the Night King and end the Long Night.

Kinda disappointed. No BF death scene. No waif death scene (though it was in the dark). Cersei/Lancel I choose violence scene was muted. Feel pretty good about calling the bloodstain on the wall being breadcrumbs to lead the waif to the fight in the dark though... Everything felt kind of rushed though. If we can get Arya, the hound, Brienne, the BWB, and Nym and her pack for a grand finale then all will be forgiven... I know it's probably been stated but I'm calling it now, the Blackfish will play the ladystoneheart role. Beric will pass the flame to him and he'll help lead the destruction of House Frey. And he'll kill Edmure and Brienne will be forced to fight Jamie... And then they go north to fight with Jon vs the walkers.

Don't know if the acting troupe or Lady Crane is scheduled for another appearance but someone must patch Arya up. I expect Arya will end the waif next episode though. I expect her to leave the blood trail on the wall luring the waif into the dark where she will stick her with the pointy end.

I suppose. He sure didn't have a problem showing some fire when Sansa suggested they keep recruiting more houses...

I have been very hard on Sansa but with the way the show is portraying Jon, I don't blame her one bit for writing that letter to whoever the hell she wrote it to... Where is Jon's fire? Where's his leadership? Taking command? Like when he took over the watch during the battle for castle black... Like when re recruited men for the raid on the mutineers? Like when re rallied the wildlings at Hardhome? Why not go around preaching about the WW's coming? Why so fucking quiet? Why Davos has to be the only one with any fucking sense or fire in his belly? Jon's character has regressed and the shit is dumb. Now he doesn't even want to try to rally the Cerwyns or Manderlys... Sansa please help this damn fool because he sure ain't coming across as the King in the North I expected him to be...

This chapter was amazing. Too many posts to read them all, but did anybody else think the Valyrian armor in Targ colors that Euron wears ties into Jon's dream of himself armored in black ice with a red sword in his hand fighting the wights and walkers??? I definitely think we'll be getting a Jon vs Euron clash and Jon will wear that armor in his fight vs the Walkers. Damn. what a chapter.

And with there allegedly only a season and a half left, I think it would have been good for the show to resurrect Jon on his funeral gpyre with Mel attached. That would have hinted ata Jon/Dany connection. But I think D&D may be saving the real resurrection for GRRM and not wanting to spoil everything from the upcoming book.

For once Sansa finally came across like a badass Stark. Even though it took her being in the company of her big brother, I'm ok with that. Maybe now I can somewhat begin to understand all the "Sansa Queen of the North" foolishness. Only somewhat though. At least D&D didn't push that crap and had her always say "our" home and bringing up all her brothers and sister when referring to reclaiming Winterfell. Sansa has always been my least favorite Stark but she's begun to win me over this episode. And Sophie showed great chemistry with Kit. She seemed really comfortable working with him. I hope they keep them paired together for a while. I'm finally ready to accept Sansa as a Stark.