Thror Baratheon

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  1. And there is no indication that they did not. I'm curious -- why do you think Rhaegar would not? Honestly, I don't understand why such things could never happen in a place like Westeros. That piece of logic escapes me. The possibility that they could certainly exists, no?
  2. Love it! Aragorn it is!
  3. Jon's only Targ feature to my recollection (of the books) is his purple eyes. Otherwise, he does seem to resemble his mother and the Starks. I doubt this. The less who know, the better. I take 'Jon' as the Westerosi form of a Valyrian name such as 'Aegon'. Or something Ned had to extemporize on the fly, and came up with a similar sounding name. Or Ned could even have just picked some older Stark name. There have been Jon Starks in the past who did some famous/remembered things. As far as a document ... I doubt this as well. For similar reasons. A Maester would probably have to had written it. And it would be a quite damaging piece of evidence to leave lying around unsecured and unprotected.
  4. This assumes that the child's name wasnt decided upon before the birth. I start with a different set of assumptions, including that Lyanna 1) did fall in love with Rhaegar; and 2) Lyanna bought into the PTWP prophecy And I see no reason to exclude the name Aegon. None at all. Referenece my comment above : 'Aegon Lyannasson' is a different name than 'Aegon' or 'Aegon Eliasson', if it comes down to it. As far as Rhaegar's eldest son ... at Jon's birth, Rhaegar had no (known) living son. The Mountain had already killed Rhaegar's children to Elia
  5. Actually, didn't I read somewhere that 'Aegon' is a Celtic name? 'Fire Lord' or 'Lord of Fire'? If latinized ... it would sould sort of like 'Eye-gon' or 'Eye-jon' no? (depending on how the 'j' is pronounced). 'Eye-kon' ? 'Eye-chon'? Hmmm... if we follow the rule 'first vowel does the walking, the second the talking', then the name would be 'Ee-gon','Ee-jon','Ee-kon', or 'Ee-chon'.
  6. By this point in the Show, Jorah has 1. paid for his transgressions re. selling people to slavers; 2. is absolutely loyal to Dany (if not the 'office' of Over-King/Queen); and 3. has earned a place in the Queensguard/Kingsguard. The Kings/Queens Guard doen't concern itself with the moral character of its members, anyway. Esp. lately. Merryn Trant? Oh my. The Kettleblacks? mmm. Jamie (before he began/begins his Arc of Redemption)? he killed his King and attempted kill a child (Bran). The old Hound (before his own Redemption)? He did kill children. Frankengregor? eeek. Not to minimize what Jorah did in any way, but at the end of the day, the the world/environment that Westeros is set in, Jorah's offense would be forgivable and/or able to be overlooked. At least for a position in the Guard. All that being said, there have been Kingsguard members with apparent impeccable character. Such as Barristan Selmy, Arthur Dayne, and Duncan the Tall, among others.
  7. From what I gather... the Valonqar (in the books) could very well be Littlefinger. The 'little brother' of your hand is your ... little finger. He gets the poison for Geoffrey/Jeoffrey. He may even do the same for Myrcella. Tommen... hmm... that one can't be laid at LF's feet. Not in the show. In the books, both Tommen and Myrcella are still alive, no? The show may have someone else in mind. Or nobody. The show hasn't mentioned the Little Brother Prophecy, afaik.
  8. Heh ... true dat. I honestly don't think that Jon's real name matters. Just like being a bastard vs. not doesn't matter.
  9. Yep. in Dany's vision. The visions did not appear to be literal, accurate history. This is where we disagree, and interpret the vision differently. I do not think the same. Oh... very true. There is no hard evidence to my knowledge that he did, though. The Prince prophecy has nothing to do with the three heads. It's about the return of Azor Ahai/Eldric Stormchaser and the one person who would unify humankind in the Great War. The last bolded statement/phrase.... can you point me to the Targaryen lore re. this? I don't know that it would be family lore. Aegon happened to have 3 dragons for the Conquest. The Targ Sigil remembers this w/ the 3 headed dragon symbol. Even it this was family lore (which I'll admit to doubting), we would disagree on whether Rhaegar tied it into the Prince prophecy and naming his children. Yep.. His children by Elia were Rhaenys and Aegon. Mmmm... I don't see how Aegon the Conquerors wives names would figure into the 3-heads vision and naming. And, as I mentioned, I don't think that he even knew/thought about that. Once the son was named Aegon, either her or Elia just 'honored' the memory of the Conqueror. Maybe or maybe not. She could have accepted them after being with Rheagar. She could not have. Don't know, really. She could have honored Rhaegar by giving their son the name of Rhaegars (believed to be) dead eldest son. I've known people to do similar -- name later children after an earlier but deceased child. Yep. It does in both Dany and Jon. Maybe in 'Aegon'. That Aegon could be fake; could be real. If Tyrion is Aerys son (I personally doubt it, but it's been postulated) would he also continue the Line?
  10. This could be. Just like the Tree with the 3-Eyed Raven was a target. Interesting thought/theory. What about the stronghold/defenses that Bran the Builder helped build? Would they be targets, or no? Maybe, at best, point to seize and destroy. Or just to avoid, if possible? From what we saw in the show, there is no 'may' about it. The WW were 1st created by the CotF. Maybe by a sub-group of the CotF, but definitely by CotF. Maybe it was on the Isle, but the show hints strongly that it was in the North, maybe at the Tree where the 3-Eyed Raven ended up. Did the CotF still control the Isle when the Pact was signed? Were the WW created before the CotF tried (and failed) to submerge the Neck? That attempt would indicate that they were North of the Neck at that time.
  11. Yup. Better still, but not likely to happen, would be to capture a WW also.
  12. With and end to the war/fight in the Riverlands, the Lannister army likely disbanded. Any summoned bannermen probably returned to their own lands. Any mercenaries or professionals paid off and sent on their way to find other employment. Only the Lannister 'household troops' and retainers and a small number of others (such as Bronn) would remain. EDIT on 04 Dec : Also ... When Jamie was on the way back to KL, Tommen and the High Sparrow were still alive. The HS did not seem to be a total fool when it came to The Game. He would likely have had Tommen order any still-mobilized troops to stay in either the Westerlands (ie, home) or the Riverlands (for 'garrison duty'). In other words, far away from KL. Hmm... hadn't thought about garrison duty. Would there be a need for a direct Lannister presence in the Riverlands to keep order? Probably not; the Freys and the Crown would be expected to shoulder that burden.
  13. And this is where we disagree. I believe that Rhaegar could have considered naming the unborn child Aegon. And, yes, he certainly could have named his 3rd child Aegon. Unusual? You bet. But possible? sure! If it has to come down to it, he could refer to them with different nicknames or give then different 'extra' name. For example : Aegon Eliasson and Aegon Lyannasson. I have a friend named exactly the same as his father. They ended up differing themselves by their Confirmation Names. And one goes by the full name, the other a shortened abbreviation. That being said, we also disagree as to Lyanna deciding upon Aegon. Unlucky? Hmmm..... If Lyanna also believed in the Prophesy, she would (in my view) definitely have reason to name her son Aegon. Also ... 'a dragon has 3 heads' was said to Dany. Not to Rhaegar. That was part of _her_ vision. Rhaegar was into the Prince Who Was Promised wasn't he? See above. That woud still fit with what view/belief. :-) question -- why do u think that Rheagar was naming for the '3 heads of the dragon'? What about Lyanna trying to keep the Prophecy re. the Prince alive and honored? That last part may very well be true. It may, in the end, be a show creation or change. GRRM may have a different name in mind. Ja...we'll have to just agree to disagree. :-) But a nice exchange and discussion nonetheless, Tini. Let me raise a [my] cup to you. Pros't!
  14. Agreed, assuming Tyrion survives and does not end up ruling himself (maybe with Sansa as Queen). Who would be 'master of coin' ? These make good sense. Agree. If Varys doesn't make it ... yep. What about Gendry? or would he just be Lord of Storms End as head of House Baratheon? hmmm... so she and jamie could be together. or Brienne and Tormund Kings/Queens guard 1st LC would have to be Jorah Mormont. If Jorah doesn't make it, then he may end up being posthumously honored with the title and/or have some award or title or position named after him. But at some point... Brienne as Lady Commander. Agree. I would exped the Guard to include (assuming these folks make it) : Jorah, Brienne, Sandor. Maybe Jamie. Maybe Grey Worm. Maybe Tormund. Maybe even a Sand Snake, also. Hmmmm ... true. A bigger step would be establishment of a Parliament or 'Estates General'.
  15. But both did not live. By the time Jon was born, everybody in Westeros (with the exception of Varys) would have believed Egg dead. True. But by the time Jon was born, that Egg was either dead or believe to be so. Didn't Ned go straight to KL after the Trident? Then to the TOJ afterwards? When Ned got the KL, Tywin had taken the city, Jamie had KOed Aerys, and Gregor had taken out Elia and both of her children. Jon was born when Ned arrived at the TOJ or thereabouts, was he not? This is where we disagree. I believe that Rheagar believed that he would have a son who would be the Prince Who Was Promised. Perhaps for some reason he wanted this son named Aegon (Lord of Fire ?). The reference to the 3rd was in Dany's vision. I'd bet Rhaegar didn't know about the 3 heads nor of any Dragons. The 3rd head was some kind of prophecy or message. Somebody else will be the 3rd rider. [disclaimer : if GRRMs has said otherwise, I am not aware of it] Why not? Perhaps Lyanna believed in the Prophecy herself. Maybe is was she who chose Aegon, knowing/believing at that time that the1st one was dead. I doubt that she would have named the boy Rhaegar. Not at that point -- that would be a sure way to guarantee that Robert would execute him. Rikard, Brandon, or Ned. Of these, Brandon may be the best fit. Jon's real name is at least syllables, with an -on on the end (at least to my hearing ) Brandon is a name linked to the fight against the WW. That would be it. A Valryian/Targaryen name would almost guarantee Jon's early demise. Ned chose 'Jon'. Nah. Ned would have known that would upset Robert and insult (perhaps) the new Queen's family. It would also draw too much attention to Jon and his birth. As mentioned above, I disagree. I believe that she named him Aegon. mmm... more likely Viserys. Isn't that the masculine form? When he (Rheagar) died, yes. By the time Jon was born (or named), no. True that. Definitely misinterpreted it. He did have a son who does appear to be the Prince Who Was Promised. Maybe not the one that he thought it would be at first. I do wonder if the 'Prince who was promised' actually has 2 parts -- male and female. Jon and Dany. That is a fascinating and somewhat typical occurrence in this series -- those who actively try to follow to implement (or force) a propecy get it wrong (eg : Rhaegar, Jeaharys (?), Aerys, Melisandre). Those who do not (eg: Dany, Jon) seem to end up fulfilling it.