Northernmonkey

I give it a seven. Like last week's episode it was a slow one but much more rewarding. 

Ian McShane, the Hound, Lyanna Mormont and the Blackfish - can't complain with that.

One tiny thing that annoyed me - why does Sansa wear so much make-up? It looks completely out of place in a grim Northern setting. She even seems to have plucked eyebrows.

The interesting thing about Euron is that for someone who is supposedly godless he's definitely in touch with his spiritual side. Since he was a child he dreamed that he could fly (in a way that's reminiscent of Bran) and since he became an adult he regularly hallucinates and cavorts with warlocks and wizards of all kinds. It seems like he's got some kind of demented supernatural edge that to me makes him a lot more interesting than Ramsay. 

It makes for an interesting comparison with Aeron. Aeron is the religious one but rigidly sticks to the traditional way of life. Euron is the godless one but his mind his completely open to everything the world has got. I wonder if Euron is a way for GRRM to express his views on religion in ASOIAF in some way.

EDIT: To put it simply it's the religious aspect to Euron's storyline that makes him so interesting. The same goes for Aeron for that mater.

Clad head to heel in scale as dark as onyx, he sat upon a mound of blackened skulls as dwarfs capered round his feet and a forest burned behind him.

And ideas what the forest refers to? Could it be a sign that Euron gets hold of a dragon?

This is mindblowing stuff. The best TWOW chapter we've seen so far and one that really should have been included at the end of AFFC.

It's interesting that no-one really saw this coming, even though it seems quite obvious in hindsight. I started a topic a couple of years ago called "What is the Damphair up to?" and no-one suggested that he might be on board the Silence. The closest anyone got was someone who said: "Nevertheless, I'd say that whatever Damphair is up to, Euron is one step ahead. Therefore, I would predict that Damphair won't last for long in the next installment." It just goes to show how hard it is to predict where the story is going to go.

1 minute ago, missingm said:

I gave it a 10. For everyone worried about the quickly spreading fire, the other women could have easily helped prepare the floor just as they bolted the doors. I have to go back and see if there was a hint of that. 

Dany asked one of the ex-Khaleesis for help beforehand so I assumed that she'd spread something flammable on the floor.

3 minutes ago, RadSam said:

Because everything else that happens on the show is so logical.

This would be the most illogical thing yet. Someone who supports the Starks handing over one of the last remaining Starks to Ramsay makes literally no sense whatsoever.

8 minutes ago, RadSam said:

I'm a firm believer that the GNC will happen in the show. There is evidence to support it. I don't know how people dismiss it so bluntly, but whether you believe it or not is up to you.

If there's a GNC on the show the Umbers aren't involved. If you wanted the return of the Starks then the absolute last thing you would do is hand over Rickon to a renowned psychopath who would almost certainly kill him. That would be the most illogical thing ever.

6 for me.

The good bits:

Jon and Sansa reunion and Littlefinger finally getting the Vale to do something. It's great to see all the pieces falling into place for a massive battle. 

Theon and Yara reunion setting things up nicely for the Kingsmoot.

Cersei and Olenna working together and setting up a big showdown with the High Sparrow.

The pink letter (pretty much). Great scene.

The bad bits:

Dany's end scene. I can't stand it when they do the holy messiah stuff with her. Awful.

Tyrion negotiating with the slavers. The scenes were okay but I just don't care about Meereen. We all know Dany's going to ditch the place soon so it all seems a bit pointless.

The High Sparrow and Margaery. I love the High Sparrow but his scenes are getting a bit repetitive. By the end of the series he'll have had a lengthy one-on-one conversation with every character on the show.

27 minutes ago, JCRB's Honeypot said:

There is also the assumption of a marriage to join the Martells and Aegon, but that's not needed. Aegon is already the result of a Martell-Targaryen union. Asking for him to marry Arianne, is like asking Robb to marry a Tully girl for an alliance. He's already the son of a Tully: he doesn't need such. Aegon is the son of Elia Martell, nephew of Doran, that's all the alliance they need.

But there's the question of legitimacy. Marrying Faegon to the heir to Dorne would instantly dispel any doubts as to whether he was the real thing or not. It could be a powerful tool in recruiting forces to his side.

And although technically Faegon shouldn't need to marry Arianne to get Dorne's support, it would still be a risk to actually snub her. Who knows if her or Doran would take it personally?

Good chapter. There's some very obvious foreshadowing of Elia causing trouble.

I might be in the minority but I love the travelogues and the world-building. I enjoyed getting to see another part of Westeros firsthand - the caves, the weather, the plantlife. It reminds me of some of Brienne's AFFC chapters, which in my opinion are some of the best GRRM has written, even if they don't have a huge impact on the plot.

Although I still think Arianne is quite a boring character.

8 for me. Best episode of the season so far because it didn't have any weak bits. Even Arya's scenes were quite well done for once. Dany and Sam's scenes were a bit boring but they needed to be done for plot reasons and they kept it brief.

The Wall - Absolutely brilliant. Loved the hanging scene and Jon leaving was quite an emotional end.

Tower of Joy - Pretty good. Very close to how I imagined it. Some people might think the two swords were a bit silly but I don't really care about that.

Meereen - Tyrion and Varys as brilliant as ever. 

Kings Landing - I love UnGregor and great to see Qyburn and Olenna again, but maybe we've had enough "character A goes to see the high sparrow" scenes. 

Winterfell - Great scene. Quite an entrance for the new Lord Umber.

I gave it a 6. It was strangely unsatisfying. A few too many cliffhangers for my liking.

Good:

- Meereen. That was a great scene and delighted to see Varys and Tyrion back together

- The brief battle scenes. Brilliantly done

- The walk of shame. Exactly how I pictured it in the books and I liked Robert Strong

Bad:

- Stannis' death. Just felt a bit rushed and anticlimactic

- Meryn Trant. We get it, he's evil. No need to have him hit little girls with sticks

- Arya and Jaqen's face changing scene. Just seemed a bit cheesy. Reminiscent of that terrible scene in the cave in The Empire Strikes Back

And then there's For The Watch. Quite a good scene but there just wasn't enough time spent this season examining the motives behind it. Seemed a bit rushed.

I got your point and agree that changes have to be made but that does not excuse the sub par writing we got this season. That was my point. The Tyrion, Jaime, Brienne arcs that we got in the show were rather poor and it had nothing to do with logistics.

People tend to dislike Brienne's story in Feast and Tyrion's story in Dance anyway, so by that logic it's no worse than in the books. Personally I thought Tyrion's storyline has been dealt with brilliantly this season. His scenes with Varys, Jorah and then Dany were all excellent.

It seems like he has gotten more screen time than Sansa, certainly more than Theon, who has barely had any lines. And now that his badass self has destroyed Stannis army of 5000 with 20 men, he does seem like the star of the Winterfell story.

Theon can barely speak so of course he hasn't had many lines.

They had to do what exactly with Brienne's storyline?

Scrap it entirely and put her in with the Winterfell storyline.

I think we can all accept that the show has to operate under certain constraints, however that does not excuse the poor writing we've had this season. The show is not even internally consistent and that comes down to sloppiness. I didn't mind Sansa popping up at Winterfell but the execution of that plotline has been rather poor. Seems like the entire WF plotline is in service to Ramsay. Tyrion, Jaime, Brienne, are any of their storylines better than their Feast and Dance storylines? Not in my opinion.

But that's my point. They couldn't do Tyrion, Jaime or Brienne's Feast or Dance storylines because that would mean casting a load of new characters and having a load of new settings. Logistically they had to mix Brienne's storyline in with the Winterfell one and mix Jaime's in with the Dorne one.

The only problem I have, is that each episode should be 1 hr 15 mins, and each season should be 12-15 episodes,that way they wouldnt have to cut SOOOOOOOOOOOO much out.

It would improve the quality massively, but I guess there's a problem with budget and getting it finished in time.

People forget that there's a limit to how many characters and settings you can have in the show, meaning that D+D are forced to make a lot of changes.

For example take the Sansa/Ramsay storyline. That was absolutely necessary because the alternative was having two extra characters (Harry the Heir and fArya) and one extra setting and storyline (The Vale).

A lot of people's criticisms of the show can be put down to logistics, and the sheer difficulty of adapting such an epic series of books.

I gave it a 6. Would have been a 7 but it was just too depressing.

Can't argue with most of it - gripping, engaging, brilliantly acted. The only bits I didn't like were the sandsnakes playing slapsies (that was cringeworthy) and Dany flying away on her dragon while the emotional music played (I just don't think dragons are that exciting).

Isn't it one of the Sand Snakes.. but since they aged up Trystane and left out Arianne, I know why they did it. I suppose the downgrading of women's equality in Dorne in general has bothered me. I'm nitpicking a lot I know, but that episode really got to me. I still think D&D do as well as anyone could & I'm venting, but that's why we're here right?

Yeah in the books it's Nymeria, but I don't think it really matters. I expect some of the sandsnakes to accompany him to KL anyway.

So I'm a straight man, and I definitely objectify women.. but no one has a problem with Trystane getting the seat on the small council? I know Dorne has been off from the start, but still..

Edit-my phone sucks.

What's the problem with Trystane getting the scene on the small council?

Remarkably good Dorne content considering what we got in certain earlier episodes.

Apart from the scene with the sandsnakes playing slapsies like it was something deep and meaningful. That was cringeworthy.

I also voted it 1/10 as this is the last episode of the show I am ever going to watch.

A lot of people have been saying this but I bet the viewing figures don't go down. To be honest I don't believe that you won't watch the finale.

The death of Hizdar bothered me. Not nearly as much as Shireen's, but bothered me.

I kinda liked the idea Hizdar was the head of the Harpy, or at least the suspense of it. But that was killed, just like the character himself.

I thought it was a low-key death for a character who was far more interesting in the books. He was definitely underused in the show. I don't see the point in including him at all when all he did was convince Dany to open the fighting pits.

OK even if we forget about the controversy about the rape, fake Arya is not a fugitive because of the murder of Joffrey. Which is why the Jeyne Poole/Fake Arya thing would have been cool. I haven't read ADWD in 2 years so I don't remember all the details. Besides that, the episode was slow, boring. Margery is taken when she is not suspecting it in the books which would make a lot more sense than in front of the Kingsguard that is sworn to protect her. Is Tommen that much of a p****Y that he wouldn't tell his boys to cut down a bunch of anorexic robe men when they grabbed his wife? It was just poorly done in so many ways. And Dorne was the worst as many have already said.

I agree about a lot of your criticisms, but not about the Sansa storyline. In the show the Boltons are openly rebelling against the Lannisters, so it doesn't matter if Sansa is a fugitive. Cersei said herself in tonight's episode that she can't send an army to Winterfell, so the Boltons are effectively safe. I think this deviation from the books is very clever way of adapting the books.