John Suburbs

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  1. I'm pretty sure she was talking about Rhaegar. When Robert doesn't want to pay the 100 gold dragons to whomever brings Nymeria's pelt following her attack on Joffrey, Cersei makes the comment about the king she'd thought to wed, meaning that Rhaegar would have paid anything for the sake of her, and Joffrey's, honor. In all honesty, I don't see Cersei having any extra hatred for Starks than she does for Tyrells, Martells, Arryns or any other family. Come to think of it, she doesn't seem to have much love for most Lannisters eithers.
  2. Sorry folks, but I take issue with this notion that Robb sleeping with Jeyne was just stupidity on his part or a moment of weakness or bad judgement. He was drugged, and probably Jeyne as well. Sybelle Spicer, the granddaughter of Maggie the Frog, who used to entertain the citizens of King's Landing telling fortunes and selling love potions, gave them a potion that made them think they were in love with each other. That, plus the milk of the poppy clouding his mind, led to the tryst, which led to the marriage, which led to the RW. So maybe you can blame Robb for deciding to put his honor above his kingdom, but not for the act that got him to that point. He was drugged and seduced.
  3. Because she is birthing a new generation of Targaryens, and not 30 years ago the realm had finally gotten rid of the last in a long line of claimants to the Iron Throne that had brought war and bloodshed to Westeros for more than century. Men have long both feared and envied women's ability to nurture life.
  4. "Who are you?" "I am your king." "King, eh? I didn't vote for you." "You don't vote for kings." "Well I want to be king then."
  5. Sorry OP, you cannot mention either Big or Little Walder in a post without it descending into "who killed Little Walder." He's like the Laura Palmer of Westeros. Could Arya have been forced to marry? Probably not forced, but Robb and Cat could definitely sit her down and explain the importance of why she should marry and how bad it would be for her family -- and all the north, really -- if she refused. Once married, however, I don't see a whole lot of happiness for poor little Elmar, why by and large appeared to be a pretty decent kid, for a Frey. Arya would be miserable at the twins, but then again, she'd be miserable anywhere she has to dress up in fine clothes and practice her courtesies and be a proper little lady instead of slumming with the swineherds. That's a good question as to where they would end up, though. I would suspect at first Arya would live wherever Elmar is housed, which at the moment is the Twins. But eventually, I suspect they would be given a castle that befits their station, and since Arya's position in the Stark family is higher than Elmar's in the Freys they would probably be given a seat somewhere in the north. I think there are more empty castles in the north anyway, and there are fewer Starks than Freys to claim them. Smartness is a highly subjective trait, and it by no means determines who wins or loses in the Game of Thrones. Tywin was smart, but Mace Tyrell is not. Yet Tywin is dead and Mace still lives. Both BW and Elmar would probably be at their wits end trying to turn Arya into a proper lady wife, although BW might be a little more forceful in the effort (or maybe not; Elmar is still young). And no, I don't believe BW has chosen this moment to begin a decades-long quest of murdering his way through dozens of family members to become Lord of the Crossing -- but if he has, what better wife to have than a highly trained assassin who can change her face into the likeness of her victims?
  6. No, my case was that this was the way D&D could explain Varys' actions in the first season in light of the subsequent drop of the fAegon plotline. They are, after all, the ones who decide what kind of person show-Drogo is, how he would react and whether Varys and Illyrio would expect that reaction. From what I can tell, you were trying to make the case that Drogo would definitely not invade if Dany were killed (but yet somehow Rhaego is still on the way? Now I'm even more confused.) and there would be no reason to expect he would. And yet, this is directly contradicted in both the show and the books because Rhaego is still on the way and Drogo is so incensed by the attempt that he begins his march toward Westeros right away -- not to restore the Targaryen dynasty but to seek revenge on Robert and his kingdom. So sure, to each his own beliefs, even if they have no basis in the actual story. I like your screen name BTW. Mine is lame.
  7. Well, people believe what they will. It someone insists that the moon is made of cheese, there's no way to argue against it. So I'll bow out now with:
  8. Which is more valuable, a Dothraki invasion while Westeros is in turmoil, or one that happens after the fighting is done and power has been reconsolidated under one house? We didn't hear the end of that conversation. They could very well have decided then and there to tell Robert about the pregnancy and let the inevitable assassination plot move forward. That way, whether the plot succeeds or fails, it gives them the invasion they need at the time they need it. Getting the Dothraki army to Westeros is what's important here. Dany and Rhaego are simply means to that end.
  9. Since you've finished Storm, you might want to go back to the council meeting where Tywin first tells Tyrion about Robb's marriage to Jeyne. Tyrion recalls a few salient details about the Westerling and Spicer families that might be germane to your theory.
  10. Lol, so if the son is never born because he was murdered in utero, Drogo would just forget about it? Hardly.
  11. Really? The guy who vowed to ride to where the world ends, ride the wooden horses across the black salt water, kill the men in the iron suits and tear down their stone houses, rape their women, take their children as slaves and bring their broken gods back to Vaes Dothrak -- all in retribution for just the attempt on the lives of his queen and son? But if they were actually killed, he'd just say "nah, forget it, bring me another dragon queen so I can father the next king of kings." Once the attempt was made, Drogo's agreement with Viserys is irrelevant. It's personal now. There is no way a man like Drogo would just let that slide. The war between wolf and lion is only days away. Once word of Tyrion's capture gets out, Tywin calls his banners and the fighting starts. Varys needs haste, and killing Dany is the only way to get it. If they wait until Rhaego is born, then wait for the Dothraki to march all the way back to the Narrow Sea, find ships to carry them all, sail to Westeros... the fighting could very well be over before they land.
  12. Thanks for that link. I think it supports what I've been saying all along: Varys wants to speed up the Dothraki invasion but the khal won't budge until his son is born. So should Robert kill both Drogo's beloved khaleesi and his unborn son -- an irreplaceable son at that, the Stallion Who Mounts the World -- that should be more than enough reason for Varys to conclude that letting the assassination plot move ahead will bring Drogo to Westeros sooner rather than later -- regardless of whether he feels he still owes Viserys anything or not. The only other possibility is that, after losing his "khal of khals" to Robert, Drogo would simply shrug his shoulders and forget all about it. Doesn't sound like the Drogo that I see.
  13. I think this lends more credence to the idea that Varys didn't care about Dany at this point. There was nothing to reveal because nothing was said, either in council or in the message to Jorah. And I don't remember the exact conversation that Arya overheard in the dragon room, but if it mirrored the book, then Varys is pleading with Illyrio to hasten the Dothraki invasion of Westeros, which Illyrio says will not happen until the khal is ready -- after his son is born. And it was right after that that the small council met with news of Dany's pregnancy, where Varys was presented with the perfect opportunity to hasten the invasion: get rid of Dany and her unborn child and spur the khal to exact revenge upon Robert. Even if the plot fails, like it did, he still gets his invasion sooner rather than later. Remember, we're not discussing what actually would or would not happen or how any of these fictional characters would or would not act based on their honor or whether they owed Viserys anything. I'm just offering up a way that D&D could fudge the events of the first season with the absence of fAegon later on. It's simple: Dany's purpose had already been served by marrying the khal. She was expendable at this point.
  14. Actually, it is certain that he didn't know because Viserys was still alive when the assassination was put into motion. The meeting of the small council took place in Ep. 5, "The Wolf and the Lion", while Varys didn't die until the end of the next episode, "A Golden Crown" -- after Ned had been reappointed as Hand and Varys told him that it's too late to cancel the operation because "those birds have already flown." I guess we'll have to disagree on the rest. At this point in the story, no one is even thinking about Dany as the heir to the IT. Her role is to deliver a Dothraki army to Viserys so he can become king. The Dothraki most certainly honor their debts and Viserys kept his part of the bargain. Drogo's bloodriders abandoned Dany after Drogo died, but since he still would have been khal following Dany's death he now has a blood debt to collect from Robert. So yes, Drogo would sail his khalasar across the poison water and his bloodriders would be honor-bound to follow.
  15. Agreed, there is lots of wiggle room here. The fact that the rest of the chapter is all about Bran making the rounds of the castle to say goodbye to those who are staying behind also makes me think it was a one-time thing. But then, why would he "visit" someone that he doesn't even know is there in the first place? But like the Lady of the Leaves and Weasel and countless other characters that come and go on the periphery of the story, I doubt there is any real significance to our blackberry man. BTW, growing blackberries in the glass gardens means you can have them in winter.