John Suburbs

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Everything posted by John Suburbs

  1. I challenge you to justify supporting the Others winning

    If they are fleeing from the terror that Bran saw in his coma dream, then the Others are no different from any other race that has been forced to flee its homeland. You have to fight and kill to establish a new home. And I'll point out that we have yet to see an Other actually raising a wight or controlling them in any way. In fact, we haven't even seen an Other and a wight in the same place at the same time. All we have is one Other riding a dead horse that seems to behave no differently than a living horse -- no mad desire to kill the living, no blue eyes... -- so it isn't even clear if anyone living or dead couldn't have ridden it as well.
  2. Royce as first family to be named meaningless or foreshadowing?

    None of the prologues focus on a major character: Royce, Cressen, Chett, Pate, Varymyr. Major characters like Stannis and Sam are seen, but the action centers around someone minor -- and the POV always dies.
  3. The Others: Why now?

    I would discount # 6. If the Others were moving south because the cold is allowing them to, then they wouldn't be moving yet because the entire continent, including north of the wall, is experiencing record warmth. They wouldn't move south until winter actually comes. And I believe the World Book mentions unusually long summers and winters since the Conquest with no mention of walkers. My guess is #2, the mixing of Ice and Fire in Jon. This was why the Pact of Ice and Fire was never consummated, probably after a warning from the Green Men. Warging and dragon-riding is simply too powerful a combination for anyone to withstand.
  4. valonqar twist

    I'm in camp Tommen. After all she's done to protect him, Tommen rises from the dead and chokes the life out of her, the way wights tend to do it.
  5. King without Cock

    This could only come about if Euron is able to control a dragon, establish himself as the new king long enough to obtain some measure of legitimacy among the populace, and Dany, Aegon and anyone else who has a claim is dead. Then Euron would have to die and the ironmen would be dominant enough on the mainland to force the noble houses to accept Theon. But I also see Theon in Dance and the sample chapters of Winds as much more perceptive and savvy than the self-absorbed kid from Thrones and Clash. He's been through an incredible ego-destroying trial and he's clawed his way back to some semblance of sanity, and now he's able to ascertain political nuances and balances of power to a pretty good degree. So strange as it may be, and rather unlikely, I think Theon would make a pretty good king.
  6. 14 year old Joffrey probably couldn't get away with it, but, say, a 20yo Joffrey ruling in his own right might, although I doubt he is crafty enough to pull it off without Jaime finding out about it and warning Tywin. It probably wouldn't happen out of the blue anyway, so Tywin would probably have a strong intuition that things were heading south and take steps to avoid being taken. The real question is, once he made the arrest, what would Joffrey do? Execute Tywin? Banish him? Strip him of lands and titles?That would raise all kinds of hell for the realm and House Lannister, assuming Cersei and Jaime are still alive. Most likely, he would just dismiss Tywin as hand and let him go back to CR, which wouldn't require Tywin being arrested in the first place. So in the end, I don't see Joffrey as being that big of a fool as to arrest Tywin, just send him packing, which Tywin would most likely oblige.
  7. My theory on the Boltons is a slight alteration of Bolt-on: Roose is the last surviving son of the Night's King. When Jorumon and the KoW slew the NK and his bride, Roose was about to be "sacrificed" to the Others the way Craster's sons are. This makes Roose half-human/half-wight and, depending on who the NK was, lord of whatever castle that was his birthright. Might have been the DF, might have been Winterfell, or any of the other northern seats. This same being has survived through the millennia by fathering sons on human brides and when the time is right, killing them, flaying them (thus, the Bolton sigil) and then donning their skins in a perfect likeness -- all accept the eyes, which remain pale as milkglass. This is why Roose never sweats, barely eats, has very little body hair and has a unique ability to shut down even big, boisterous louts like the Greatjon with little more than a whisper. It's also the reason why he has to leach himself constantly: to prevent the blood from pooling in his hands and feet. So each time he kills a son and assumes his identity, he maintains his position as lord of his castle. And he has probably managed to switch houses from time to time, including the Starks. You may recall the story of Brandon Ice-Eyes, who threw the slavers out of the Wolf's Den; that was probably Roose. This would also explain why Roose would not only fail to mourn the loss of his trueborn son -- one who had all the makings of a champion jouster and an exceptional lord -- but then reward his bastard killer with legitimacy and all the Bolton titles. Domeric, apparently, is not Roose's son but Brandon Stark's. In order to maintain his lordship after Roose's death, he needs his own natural son to inherit the DF so he can make the switch when the time is right. With Ramsey, of course, he not only gets the DF, but Winterfell as well. We also have this little tidbit from Lady Barbrey: Sounds like the attitude of a being who has seen humans come and go so often that they are no more significant to him then mice. This also plays to the idea that The Song of Ice and Fire is about blood magic, with the Targaryens having Fire blood and the Starks having Ice blood, courtesy of the creature that calls itself Roose Bolton. At some point in the future, when Roose dies, look for Ramsey to calm down, start speaking in whispers and begin to leach himself. You'll know the switch has been made.
  8. Board Issues 4

    iMusic, which I thought was an iOS thing. I'm using IE 11.
  9. Assault Moat Cailin

    I think it's important to note that MC has not been tried in thousands of years, when it was still relatively intact and not half-sunk in the swamp. Also, the armies back then would have been smaller considering they were generally marshalled by small river kings or vale lords. So MC not be all that impervious from the south as Ned thinks. Also, it depends on how many northmen are garrisoned at MC, but if it's only the 200 or so archers that Ned says is necessary, then here is how I would do it: Dispatch of decent-sized force of, say, 5000 men and follow the coast along Iron Man's bay north of the Cape of Eagles. (I'm assuming that since only the north is in rebellion, then both the Twins and Seaguard are on JonCon's side.) Then cut northeast through the woodlands to the eastern tip of Saltspear, follow the river due east (or if the crannogs control that, then north a few kliks into the flatlands) so you can swing around to take MC from the north. Or maybe for good measure, send 4000 or so north and take Barrow Hall so they can't attack you from the rear. 1k should be plenty to take MC. And this is assuming, of course, that the crannogmen confine themselves to the swamps on the eastern side but not the forest in the west. If they control both regions, then this would never work. But it's also inconceivable that JC would control everything but the north and not have a navy to simply ferry his men across the Bite or around Blazewater Bay. Heck, the ironmen would be happy to oblige if his intent is to subdue the north.
  10. What 'needed to be done'?

    Sorry, I will always stand for the principal that the decision that results in fewer lives lost, or even potentially lost, is the right decision, both morally and practically, then the one that leads to greater numbers of deaths. And I think Martin agrees with that too, given that virtually every loss of life in the book is the result of someone failing to do what needed to be done to prevent it.
  11. Board Issues 4

    Hi folks, I keep getting an annoying little pop-up that wants me to load an app. I first hit cancel and then the close button, but it keeps coming back over and over again, even when I'm just scrolling down a page. Finally I hit accept and it takes me to the App Store where it says to download some sort of music app. I'm perfectly fine without music on this board, so if there is anything that can be done to disable this pop-up I would be much obliged. Thanks
  12. What 'needed to be done'?

    OK, but this goes against the grain of what you are saying. If doing the right thing for personal benefit, such as satisfying one's own sense of honor, leads to leads to death and suffering of vast numbers of people, then that is a selfish, immoral decision. This is how we can see the flaw in Ned's decision to treat Cersei and her children with honor, because it led to more then just personal unhappiness but the deaths of his wife, son, all the people who followed and trusted him and the destruction of his house. Dany's moral quest to end slavery has brought about thousands of gruesome deaths of innocents and has now unleashed a plague upon an entire city. On the flip side, Jaime's immoral decision to stab an old man in the back -- a man he had sworn a holy vow to protect no matter what -- saved the lives of half a million people or more. So if we apply this same formula to Robert, then refusing to kill Dany may satisfy his own sense of morality, but it would very likely lead to a greater immorality. So, like Jaime, the truly honorable thing to do is to sacrifice his own personal benefit, his honor, for the greater good, thus answering to a higher, more universal, morality. This is one of the predominant themes in the story. I can't say what will happen in the next two books, but I'm sure there will be death and misery on a grand scale. And I'll bet the farm that it will have resulted in someone failing to do "what needed to be done."
  13. What 'needed to be done'?

    Lol, I guess I'm curious then: in a story where the honorable, morally correct course of action invariably leads to misery and mayhem (Ned, Dany, Brienne), while the immoral act brings peace and tranquility (Jaime) what, exactly, makes it so appealing to you guys?
  14. What 'needed to be done'?

    Well, no, he has the benefit of foresight, and the lengthy history of claimants to the throne causing bloodshed and mayhem, including himself. Again, this idea is based on the notion that Dany deserves to live or die based on her actions. It doesn't. From Robert's perspective, and from those who want peace in the realm, she has to die because of who she is. Agreed, but I'm not talking about why Robert or anyone else did what they did. I'm just answering the OP's question, "Did it need to be done?" And for the sake of peace in the realm, the answer is yes.
  15. What 'needed to be done'?

    It's the old conundrum: if you had a chance to kill Hitler as a child, would that be immoral? Or would you weigh that against the 40 million who died because of his actions. I get what your saying, and I agree with it. But I guess I'm trying to provide a literal answer to the question, "What needed to be done?" And the threat that Dany herself, regardless of her actions but just by virtue of who she is, makes it necessary that she should die, at least from Robert's perspective. I don't think the citadel or the faith would be an adequate guarantee against insurrection -- in fact, I'll bet leaders of both organizations would love to have one of their own sitting the Iron Throne. So I'm not trying to argue that your contention is wrong, but that it is an answer to a different question than the one posed by the OP.
  16. Foreshadowings?

    I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas of what sort of foreshadowing in the past five novels might point to key plot points of WoW and DoS? There's a post on Reddit that has Tyrion leading the assault on Casterly Rock after the current owner (Cersei maybe?) holes up inside. It's basically built out of a mountain, so even the Black Dread's dragonfire wouldn't be enough to bring it down, let alone Dany's relatively young brood. So how do they get in? The same way they did in Meereen: through the sewage system or, as Tyrion calls them, the drains and cisterns, which he was in charge of for a while. There is also the bit in the Hedge Knight about the dwarves who crawled up the privy shaft to steal the dragon egg. Any other ideas about things in the past that might affect the future?
  17. What 'needed to be done'?

    Nice analysis, but I would still argue for pragmatism in this case. Whether Drogo intended to attack originally or only later or whether Dany was complicit or not, the fundamental situation is this: as long as the Targaryen line remains unbroken it is a threat to peace in the realm. Even if Dany or any of her descendants renounced their claim to the throne, they could still be used by others as pawns to overthrow the new dynasty. It is the same situation as the Blackfyres, which kept rising every decade or so as new BFs replaced the old. It was only when the last Blackfyre was killed that that particular threat stopped. Ethics and morality are choices, while pragmatism is not. Killing the last recognized Targaryen, innocent as she may be, is the best way to prevent future bloodshed of countless other innocents, as Pycelle noted at the council meeting. Even if Robert agreed with Ned that it was not something that he wanted to do, it was something that needed to be done -- for the good of the realm.
  18. What 'needed to be done'?

    I'm going to weigh in here with the opinion that whether Dany was actively conspiring against Robert or not is irrelevant to the question at hand. Dany is not the actual threat here. Her children are. From Robert's POV, all Targs must be eliminated in order to bring peace to the realm, so therefore killing her is something that needed to be done.
  19. What is the Others plan?

    I'll just point out that there were no Others seen in the attack of the Fist, just wights. In fact, we have never seen the wights and Others working together. At best, we have an Other riding a dead horse just before Sam kills it, but that horse does not seem to be acting any differently from a living horse (no mad desire to kill the living, no blue eyes, etc.) So to answer your question, the Others could be fleeing from the same horror that Bran saw in his coma dream, which might be the one that is actually reanimating and controlling the wights.
  20. Matches that Never Were

    It seems pretty clear that Lyanna would have been pretty miserable with Robert, and Cat would have suffered Brandon as best she could. But what about some of the other matches that were considered but not made? Cersei and Viserys, or Cersei and Ned or Cersei and Oberyn Arianne and Viserys Jaime and Lysa, or Jaime and Elia Tyrion and Lysa Tyrion and Lollys Tyrion and Elia Littlefinger and Lollys Disastrous marriages all? Or was there no one destined for a happy marriage other than Ned and Cat?
  21. What was that thing between Cersei and Taena?

    Har, I love the title of this post: What was that thing between Cersei and Taena? I didn't know they had strap-ons in Westeros.
  22. Baby swapping in Westeros

    Maybe GRRM was switched at birth and he really isn't who he thinks he is.
  23. My kingdom for a convincing explanation for this

    RIP to the Azure Arch in Malta, BTW. It was where they filmed the wedding scene in Season 1. http://deadline.com/2017/03/game-of-thrones-rock-arch-collapses-malta-sea-1202039838/
  24. Penny at the Wedding

    I've long thought that if there was anyone close to Tyrion who was an agent of Littlefinger, it was Shae.
  25. Matches that Never Were

    And what about Jaime and Cersei? If they did run away together and live as man and wife, would either one of them have been happy in the long run?