Bael's Bastard

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  1. Your verdict is still wrong. Every known product of Targ polygamy in the Iron Throne age has not only been legitimate, but has also eventually gone on to become king. Few examples as we have, there is zero support for the idea that Jon would be a bastard, and every support for the idea that he would be legitimate, as Aenys and Maegor were. You might as well suggest that there has never been a legitimate descendant of Aegon I. /thread
  2. You didn't present anything that makes a decent case for Ned. The one thing you did attempt to put forward as evidence was taken out of context and twisted, and clearly does not actually support your position. Ned was a grown man at Harrenhal and a grown man when he married Cat. He was shorter than Brandon, that's it. It is a person's comparison of two people, not a statement that one of them is short in general.
  3. Aside from Stannis as TKOTLT not making sense or serving a purpose, I strongly doubt a sixteen or seventeen year old Stannis was "short of stature," whether he was at the tourney or not.
  4. I think it is stated in the app. They all participated and won their matches on the earliest days of a week long tourney, and all lost to a short knight with mismatched ill-fitting armor by the afternoon of the second day. There is really no telling how accomplished the jousters TKOTLT defeated were, or how seriously they took TKOTLT because of his small stature and mismatched ill-fitting armor, or what tactics or possible manipulations the TKOTLT used to defeat them. The case can easily be made for Lyanna based on actual book descriptions of her and jousting, without any need for magic, but no case can be made for Howland, or Ned, or anyone else without introducing magic or ignoring TKOTLT's small stature.
  5. TKOTLT was absolutely Lyanna Stark. As for TKOTLT's "booming voice through his helm," we have no source other than little Howland Reed and his children that describe the voice. The fact is, Aerys believed TKOTLT to be fifteen year old Jaime Lannister, legally an adult, but little older than Lyanna, and not likely to have had anything resembling the voice of a grown man. And while we know little about Jaime's volume levels as a fifteen year old, that same TKOTLT story describes the "roar" of Lyanna, and how the she-wolf "howled" at the squires.
  6. Nah, the idea that they did not or could not recognize Quentyn is not stated or implied anywhere. The horrible burns to his face and body are nowhere described as rendering him unrecognizable. That is a figment of the imaginations of those who have claimed it, and has no basis in the text describing Quentyn's clear death.
  7. This is the same GRRM that has Daenerys, Tyrion, and Marwyn comment on the unpredictability of prophecy, and has Melisandre acknowledge that interpreters of prophecy can be mistaken, and has commented on the unpredictability of prophecy outside the books. Rhaegar originally believed he was TPTWP, but was later persuaded that his son Aegon was TPTWP. He could have been mistaken about either or both. Just because he applied the phrase of the series to his son Aegon does not mean that he was correct about that.
  8. Haven't read the ASOIAF graphic novels, but the three Dunk and Egg graphic novels are excellent. The Mystery Knight just came out this week.
  9. As horrific as Quentyn's burns are described to be, at no point is it stated or implied that he was unrecognizable to Missandei or Barristan, who both confirm his death.
  10. Quentyn is confirmed dead by two characters in the same scene as both look on his corpse. There is nothing at all suspect about the wording.
  11. Quentyn is confirmed dead by Missandei and Barristan Selmy, and it is clearly known to others like Skahaz. I see no reason to believe he will be resurrected in any way.
  12. It is Hoster Tully who called Walder that. The Freys were his bannermen, but the Freys held out when House Tully joined the Baratheons, Starks, and Arryns in rebellion against the Targaryens leading up to the Battle of the Bells. The Freys withheld their forces from the two major battles after the Tullys joined the rebels, and when they arrived late after the Trident there was doubt about whom they had actually intended to join. It is possible they used their forces (not sure it is stated one way or another), but if not, they had good reason.
  13. Who says the Bael story is true? Who says Karstark was formed before Bael? Why would House Stark look to what had become a separate and distinct house when the king had a grandson through his daughter? Viserys I chose his daughter and her sons to succeed him rather than any male line Targ kin.
  14. Based on TWOIAF, I think it is very plausible that Jaehaerys I favored a peace of some sort, and that the Baratheon were against peace without surrender. TWOIAF records a claim that even Dorne mourned the death of Jaehaerys I. "King Jaehaerys, the First of His Name—known as the Conciliator, and the Old King (being the only Targaryen ruler who lived to such an advanced age)—died peacefully in his bed in 103 AC, while Lady Alicent read to him from his friend Barth's Unnatural History. He was nine-and-sixty at his death, and had ruled wisely and well for five-and-fifty years. Westeros mourned, and it was claimed that even in Dorne men wept and women tore their garments in lament for a king who had been so just and good. His ashes were interred with that of his beloved, the Good Queen Alysanne, beneath the Red Keep. And the realm never saw their like again." (The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Jaehaerys I) Whether true or not, I think it is notable that such a claim could even be made about a Targaryen king that ruled and died so many decades before peace was made with Dorne and they were brought into the realm. TWOIAF also records a number of things which make a lingering Baratheon hostility toward Dorne seem likely. Orys Baratheon was captured in Dorne in 4 AC during Aegon's invasion of Dorne. He and his men were held until 7 AC, and his captor, Wyl of Wyl, cut his hand off and the hands of his men. All accounts say he became bitter afterward. He resigned as Hand, and turned his attention to Dorne, obsessed with the idea of revenge. He was among those who received the return of Meraxes's skull in 13 AC as a bad omen. It seems plausible that Orys was among those who urged Aegon I not to accept peace with Dorne without submission. Orys got his chance for revenge against House Wyl during the reign of King Aenys (37-42 AC), when he captured Wyl's son Walter, and cut off both his hands and both his feet. So Orys himself held that grudge against Dorne for over thirty years, and it would not be unlikely for his sons and grandsons to have been instilled with that grudge, especially after Orys died on his way back to Storm's End, from wounds taken in Dorne.
  15. I agree. And I am hating the idea that this is going to be another coffee table book.