Bael's Bastard

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  1. Baratheon name origin

    You are assuming that the name Baratheon is made up of the two words Bara and Theon, but we don't know that to be true. If the name were spelled Barathyon or Barathion would you really pronounce it all that differently than you do now? It is more a superficial difference in look than it is a substantial difference in sound. It still sounds little different than the "ion" of Balerion or "yon" of Velaryon.
  2. Baratheon name origin

    The name Baratheon could still be Valyrian or derived from Valyrian in the event that Orys's mother was not Valyrian. Orys itself seems like a variation of or at least reminiscent of the name Aerys, which was the name of Aerion's grandfather. I used to think that Orys was legally legitimate, and that Baratheon was the name of his legal father, but the World Book and discussions including Ran around that time lead me to believe that Orys was a bastard either way, and that only the identity of his father was unconfirmed. Theon may be a First Man name, but there is no confirmation that Theon is actually one of the elements of the name Baratheon. It could be that -eon is a suffix and the previous element is Ath or Rath or Barath, or perhaps the last element of the name is Atheon or Ratheon, or perhaps it truly is Theon. We don't know, and could break Baratheon down any number of ways. There are a handful of people in the Targaryen tree with seemingly Valyrian names with no AE or Y in their name, such as Rhalla, Valerion, Viserra, and Valarr. We have names that are very similar to these but with AEs or Ys, such as Rhaella, Valyrian, Velaryon, Viserys, and Vaella. Baratheon may not be written with a Y, and different people will pronounce things differently, but there isn't a world of difference between the pronunciation of the "eon" in Baratheon and the "yon" or "ion" in Velaryon, Velarion, or Balerion.
  3. Baratheon name origin

    It is most lilkely descended from Valyrian. There's no reason for him to have a First Men or Andal name when Dragonstone was long held by the Valyrians/Targaryens. Not every Valyrian name has a "y," and the "eon" in Baratheon is very similar to the "yon" in Velaryon and "yen" in Targaryen. GRRM could have just as easily spelled it Barathyon or Barathyen without radically changing the pronunciation. It just looks slightly different.
  4. Did Brandon Stark rape Ashara Dayne?

    It is entirely possible that Ned never had sex with another woman after he agreed to marry Cat. It is entirely possible he never had sex with anyone other than Cat, before or after he agreed to marry her. But I am still open to the possibility that Ned is drawing on sincere guilt he has over having had sex with and perhaps even impregnated another woman after he agreed to marry Cat, even if it was not Jon's mother. I wouldn't say I lean toward that being the case, but I consider it plausible enough to mention as a possibility.
  5. Anyone else dislike Valyrians/Targaryens?

    I don't think that is accurate. They had one recent Targ ancestor, and the last incest in that line was what, Aegon/Naery? I imagine they and their incest impacted the Baratheon line, but not to the extent you claim.
  6. R+L=J v.163

    At least one fatal blow for Robert and Starkcest is that Robert or Ned would have had to find, impregnate, and lose Lyanna months into the war, and Benjen would have had to do the same months into the war while he was the Stark in Winterfell.
  7. R+L=J v.163

    Jon's looks are not unusual for a child of a Targ and non-Targ. Rhaegar's first child Rhaenys looked more like a Martell. Prince Baelor had his Martell mother's dark hair. Aegor Rivers had the black hair of his Bracken mother. Prince Daeron, son of Dyanna Dayne and Maekar, had sandy brown hair. The first three sons of Rhaenyra either managed to come out with dark hair despite two parents with the Targ hair and eyes, or else favored their Strong father. Some of them had purple eyes, some of them didn't. Even then, I might argue that even though Jon's eyes are not purple, the description of his eyes in Bran I in AGOT as a grey so dark they seemed almost black as a possible indication of Targaryen traits even in the eyes, as it doesn't seem to be the typical grey Stark eyes. I wouldn't be surprised if Prince Duncan favored Betha Blackwood, and Steffon favored Ormund. And Ned's own eldest children favor Cately Tully in the hair. Is this evidence of Tullycest?
  8. Small Questions v. 10105

    Do we know any of the songs Rhaegar wrote? For some reason I thought I recalled it being implied that he may have written the song about Jenny, but I can't find it now.
  9. Did Brandon Stark rape Ashara Dayne?

    Sorry, I did a bit of editing, but I agree with you on that.
  10. Did Brandon Stark rape Ashara Dayne?

    The whole thing is very cleverly worded. My first impression was that Ashara had been wronged by one man, that afterward she had turned to a Stark for some sort of help, and that Selmy is conflicted about whether she might have turned to him for that help instead had he defeated Rhaegar and named her QOLAB. But the more I thought about it, the less sense that made to me, and the more convoluted it seemed. Ashara was the sister of the Sword of the Morning and KG Arthur Dayne, the sister of the Lord of Starfall, and the companion (or former companion?) of Princess Elia Martell. Why would she possibly go to a Stark to get help against someone who wronged her? And why would Selmy think that winning the tourney and naming her QOLAB might have made it more likely she would have gone to him for help instead of the Stark? In context, a context which demonstrates his conflicted feelings between his vows and his love and desire for Ashara, I think the part of him asking that question is envious of the man who dishonored her, IMO, the man she chose to be romantic with. I am not suggesting that Selmy had some sick desire to dishonor her, but that as a KG who could not marry or father legitimate children, he knew that it would mean breaking his own vows and dishonoring her to be with her in any way romantically, yet part of him seems to think it might have been better that way. At least that's what I am leaning toward right now.
  11. Did Brandon Stark rape Ashara Dayne?

    I don't think Brandon or anyone else raped Ashara. There are a number of ways to interpret all this information, but I am currently inclined to interpret Selmy's beliefs as follows. 1. Ashara became interested in a Stark. 2. Ashara hooked up with that Stark at Harrenhal 3. Ashara was impregnated with a daughter by that Stark 4. Ashara became mad with grief because she lost that daughter to stillbirth, and perhaps as well because she lost that Stark 5. Ashara threw herself from a tower In the above scenario, I favor Ned being "that Stark" over Brandon. I currently lean toward an outline along these lines: Ned and Ashara hit it off at Harrenhal and hooked up during the tourney, when both were single. Ned and Ashara somehow found an opportunity to hook up during the war, and conceived a daughter, perhaps even after he had already agreed to marry or already married Cat. Ashara lost the daughter to stillbirth. Ned returned Dawn to Starfall, having killed Ashara's brother Arthur. Ned left Ashara for good and departed north to honor his marriage to Cat and hide Jon. In this scenario, Ashara's losses rapidly hit her one after the other. She loses her child with the man she loves, she loses her brother at the hands of the man she loves, and she loses the man she loves as he leaves north to do his duty with his new wife and family. Though perhaps not without its issues, this makes more sense to me than Ashara living with the grief of Brandon's death for over a year, and her daughter's death for a number of months, only to wait until after Ned comes to Starfall to kill herself. Of course, there is the chance that Selmy is giving us some incorrect information, or that Selmy's information is correct and I am misinterpreting it. But this is what I lean toward for now.
  12. Did Brandon Stark rape Ashara Dayne?

    That is one way to interpret it, and I think it is probably how GRRM expects us to read it, but I am not convinced that is actually the case.
  13. Rhaegar wasn't polygamous, he was dumping Elia for Lyanna

    I think you are making an arbitrary distinction between "pass over" and "rejected" in this case. Tywin promised Cersei when she was six or seven year old that she would marry Rhaegar. According to Jaime, Tywin brought Cersei to court when she was twelve in hopes of making a royal marriage, either waiting for Viserys to mature, or for Elia to die. Tywin could not blame Rhaegar for marrying Elia at the command of his father, but I think there is no way Tywin would support Rhaegar after he chose to marry again and still didn't marry Cersei. It is a slight to both the Lannisters and Martells no matter how you slice it.
  14. Rhaegar wasn't polygamous, he was dumping Elia for Lyanna

    I never suggested that Rhaegar would have to marry Cersei to get Tywin as an ally. Your hypothetical involves Rhaegar marrying Lyanna and still being able to count on Tywin being on his side, which is inconceivable. Tywin might be able to accept Rhaegar not being able to marry Cersei because of his existing marriage, but there's no chance in hell he would be able to accept and support Rhaegar after marrying yet another woman who is not Cersei. Aerys is the one who passed over Cersei when he married Rhaegar to Elia. But this would be Rhaegar himself passing over Cersei to marry Lyanna. Tywin would probably feel pretty good about ridding himself of the whole family at that point.
  15. Rhaegar wasn't polygamous, he was dumping Elia for Lyanna

    Why would Rhaegar make such an offer? Why would Rickard accept such an offer? Politically, it makes no sense for either man to alienate existing allies and create new enemies in order to make a pretty weak alliance with each other. It is politically counterproductive. I am not sure Rhaegar was too concerned with politics in the moment(s). I think his political hopes and dreams were pretty much crushed going into Harrenhal. And I don't see Rickard abandoning his well laid plots to rush into a dangerous alliance with Rhaegar that would be sure to turn three great houses and the king himself against House Stark. And for what gain? A son-in-law with no army, no throne, no other allies because he had betrayed them all, and could betray you just the same at any time? If Rhaegar's original goal was to restrict Aerys with the help of the great houses, it shouldn't have taken much for him to secure Lannister and Martell support. From there he could have brought other great houses into the mix without alienating his existing allies. Instead, his actions at the Harrenhal tourney and after alienated the Martells who were already wed to him, and the Lannisters who desperately wished to be wed to him, and did not gain him any support from the Starks. Rickard's only daughter was already betrothed to Lord Baratheon, whose father's mother was a Targaryen. He had put his children in position to produce descendants worthy of marrying into the Targaryen royal line. He had betrothed his daughter to the non-Targaryen house perhaps most likely to marry in with the Targaryens. I don't see Rickard being on board with breaking that betrothal even if it meant immediately marrying Lyanna to Rhaegar or even Viserys. A Rhaegar-Rickard-Hoster-Tywin alliance would never be achievable if it included Rhaegar taking another wife and it being anyone other than Cersei. There is no way Tywin would be on board with Rhaegar marrying Lyanna. If anything, I think we are likely to find out that Rhaegar's QOLAB and later actions with Lyanna killed any alliance or plans Tywin and Rhaegar might have had.