Bael's Bastard

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  1. Nope. Why would they then help him kidnap Lyanna and bring her from the riverlands to the ToJ? Why would they then stay at the ToJ when Rhaegar went off without them to KL and then to the Battle of the Trident leading Aerys's forces? Poor, baseless theory.
  2. @The Twinslayer On top of the theme of fair hair yielding to dark which is so significant in AGOT, the rumor of Orys Baratheon being Aegon's bastard brother is also introduced in the AGOT appendix. And yet we know from AGOT that Robert has black hair, as do all the Baratheons' known issue. So even before we found out that Orys actually had black hair, and that Robert's grandmother was Targaryen, we already had enough information to know that Orys either had Targaryen looks and the dark Baratheon hair of his wife won out in his descendants, or he was rumored to be the bastard of a Targaryen despite not having Targaryen looks at all. In either scenario, the idea that the children or descendants of Targaryens automatically have or are expected to have Targaryen looks even when one parent is not Targaryen doesn't survive the very first book. And now we know Orys was rumored to be a bastard brother of Aegon even though he had black hair and black eyes.
  3. Just skimmed it for now, but sounds interesting.
  4. The point is we do have an example, particularly, an example where the person is being claimed to be a main POV character believed by many to be dead. I am not sure if there are others, as that was just off the top of my head. But there is a precedent set as early as ASOS (the same book Connington and Blackfyre were first mentioned) for a group of conspirators having someone pose as an important person believed to be dead in order for that important person's identity to benefit the aims of those conspirators. There are obvious differences between the cases of Jeyne and AeGriff. But both Jeyne and AeGriff are being used by their respective handlers to claim what the important people they are being claimed to be are likely to be seen as having a right to by those who are intended to be moved by their reappearances. Jeyne is being used as Arya to claim Winterfell, AeGriff is being used as Aegon to claim the Iron Throne and Westeros. It remains to be seen if AeGriff actually is who he is being claimed to be. I believe LV is correct that we do not actually get any descriptions of what Rhaenys or Aegon specifically looked like in AGOT. It is understandable why readers might have assumed that they had the same hair and eye color as the Targaryens who are described to us. I imagine that is the impression GRRM wanted readers to have, and that he omitted details about Rhaenys's looks because of that. But while AGOT may not tell us of dark haired Targaryens, keep in mind that one of the major plots in AGOT involves Ned Stark deducing that Cersei's children were not Robert's partially based on the discovery that black haired Baratheons and blonde or yellow or even red haired people always produced black haired children, including Robert's bastards. In other words, he might not have explicitly told us of any Targaryens with dark hair, but we were told in the very first book that in this world the child of a parent with dark hair and a parent with light hair might inherit the hair color of the parent with dark hair.
  5. Off the top of my head, we have Jeyne being forced to pose as Arya, who Robb and Jon believed to be dead. Arya just also happens to be alive, unknown to pretty much everyone. AeGriff certainly believes he is Aegon son of Rhaegar. If the claim is false it is unbeknownst to him, and does not originate with him.
  6. I disagree. I don't think the early books hint at all that Aegon escaped or wasn't really killed. But the brutality of his death left him in such a state that someone like Varys could then take advantage of it after the fact. It is only in hindsight, after knowing that Gregor had smashed the child's face in that way, that Varys could craft this story he is now spinning. Yes, the Blackfyre stuff comes later than the Aegon stuff, but the only people connecting Young Griff, who comes even later, to the actual Aegon are people like Varys and Connington, one of whom didn't meet the kid for years and is relying on the word of the other. Young Griff is surrounded by Blackfyre stuff. His army is literally the Blackfyre army.
  7. The Blackfyre stuff has everything to do with the person being claimed to be Aegon: Young Griff. He is being claimed to be Aegon, but he and his story as it is happening are inextricable from Blackfyre stuff. ASOS introduces Connington, his relationship to Rhaegar, and his exile, and introduces Daemon Blackfyre and the "Blackfyre Pretenders." Jaime even mentions in the same sentence the exile of Connington and how Daemon Blackfyre was previously the greatest threat to House Targaryen until the Battle of the Bells made Aerys realize Robert was a real threat. Cat makes one of the references to the Blackfyres, but it is not the first. They are mentioned or thought about first by Stannis, then Jaime, then Cat, and in the White Book, and then by Arianne, Tyrion, Illyrio, Lord Godric, Connington, Doran, and Barristan. Young Griff has no provenance. The only people who might be able to claim to have seen him raised from birth are people of ill repute like Varys and Illyrio. Connington wasn't even brought on board until after he had been in exile and serving in the Golden Company for years, and they only just now were sending YG to Daenerys, who the whole world knows is a legitimate Targaryen, to try to marry her and gain him legitimacy. I am not saying this all proves he has Blackfyre ancestry, though I do think it is likely, but his unfolding experience is steeped in Blackfyre stuff, while his Aegon backstory is just that, at least for now.
  8. I think you are overestimating the loyalty of the average man of the Golden Company to a house that is forty years extinct, and sixty years removed from the fervor of Bittersteel which originally drove them. The Golden Company is not made up of Blackfyres or Bittersteels, it is made up of descendants of Westerosi exiles who lost their lands and titles as much as a century ago fighting over their belief that Daemon was the true Targaryen king. If they have an opportunity to return to Westeros and win lands and titles, possibly even their own ancestral lands and titles, I don't think they would care whether the face of that return was a descendant of Daeron or of Daemon. In fact, Tristan Rivers explicitly states that the original plan was for them to be joined by Viserys Targaryen and a thousand Dothraki screamers, and the plan after that was for them to be joined by Daenerys Targaryen, and even the most recent plan with AeGriff was for him to wed Daenerys, the Targaryen the whole world knows is legit. I definitely lean toward AeGriff being a Blackfyre descendants, or someone other than Rhaegar's son, but I see no reason to think that the men of the Golden Company think or were told he is a Blackfyre descendant.
  9. Not necessarily all Valyrians, but the dragonlords of Valyria in particular. "The dragon kings had wed brother to sister, but they were the blood of old Valyria where such practices had been common, and like their dragons the Targaryens answered to neither gods nor men." - A Clash of Kings - Catelyn IV "The tradition amongst the Targaryens had always been to marry kin to kin. Wedding brother to sister was thought to be ideal. Failing that, a girl might wed an uncle, a cousin, or a nephew; a boy, a cousin, aunt, or niece. This practice went back to Old Valyria, where it was common amongst many of the ancient families, particularly those who bred and rode dragons. "The blood of the dragon must remain pure," the wisdom went." - The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Aenys I "It had long been the Valyrian custom to marry within the family, thus preserving the royal bloodlines. " - The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Aenys I This indicates to me that the different families of dragonlords had their own distinct "dragon" bloodlines, and not only preferred to keep those bloodlines pure of non-dragonlord blood, but also preferred to keep those bloodlines pure of the blood of the other dragonlord families.
  10. The incest custom is not just Targaryen, it is pre-Doom Valyrian. And we are explicitly told why they do it, to keep their bloodlines pure, and that includes from the blood of other dragonlords. Even when there were forty families of dragonlords, and hundreds of dragonlords, those families still preferred incest within their own families to intermarrying with other families of dragonlords.
  11. The Blackfyres are mentioned about a dozen times over the last three books, either mentioned or thought about by eleven different characters in chapters of nine different POV characters. Perhaps not a ton of times, but the mentions are there, from diverse sources, and are usually pretty dramatic. I think Aerion is mentioned even less times, and his ancestry could be involved as well. Connington is first mentioned in the same book the Blackfyres are, and Young Griff isn't introduced until the fifth book, though he is being claimed to be a character who is mentioned earlier in the series.
  12. That makes no sense whatsoever.
  13. Are you talking about readers or characters? It is not without basis from the books that some readers believe Ashara had sex. At least two characters suggest that Ashara was pregnant at some point, which would require her to have had sex. Perhaps those characters are entirely or partially wrong. But we've at least been given some reason to think she might have had sex, and not just because she is Dornish or beautiful.
  14. In this case, I think some people simply interpret the wording of Selmy's thoughts to mean that something was done to Ashara against her will. I might go so far as to say that GRRM worded it with the intention that people jump to conclusions along those lines. But I do think it is a misinterpretation of whatever actually happened, and that Selmy is going to think of the man as having dishonored her even if it was consensual.
  15. I don't know about "pure blood," but considering the incest goes back to Valyria, not just post-Doom Targaryen Dragonstone, it sounds like the dragonriding families didn't even like intermarrying with other dragonriding families.