Rhaenys_Targaryen

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  1. Sure, a dragonrider can travel quickly. But Alyssa didn't have a dragon, as far as we know. And we have no idea when Jaehaerys and Alysanne bonded with theirs.
  2. Gyldayn suggests they went to Tyrosh or Volantis. But nothing suggests that they might have gone to Pentos. Which explains why Tyanna couldn't find them. Although she might still have connections in Pentos, we have no reason to assume that she had any connections in any of the other Free Cities, including Tyrosh and Volantis. They would gain a powerful friend. Alyssa's children had a claim to the throne, and Maegor remained childless. Making Alyssa (and her younger children) a friend of theirs by protecting them would give them a good chance to make a powerful new ally. The Triarchy was only formed in 96 AC, so existed only during the last seven years of Jaehaerys's reign. And the actions of the Triarchy were, at first, welcomed in the Seven Kingdoms.
  3. Lyanna might have visited the Eyrie, Lyanna might have visited another place where Robert also visited, Robert might have seen only a portrait of Lyanna and heard stories about her from Ned which made him fall in love. There probably are some other alternatives. With Rickard's ambitions in mind, I too wonder how much he manipulated the events that led to the betrothal. Perhaps he had nothing to do with it, but perhaps he did.
  4. I did not create the timeline I am able to edit it (and have done so, trying to fix issues and find new clues in the books), but that started only after it was already created.
  5. Ran, If Alyssa does not have a Targaryen mother, what about the statement of TRP that Laenor Velaryon had Targaryen blood on both sides of his lineage? Because that seems to imply that his father, Lord Corlys, had a reasonably recent Targaryen ancestor. But I could be mistaken.
  6. The books don't state it specifically. Only that Eddard travelled to Winterfell to bring Robert's suit to Rickard, and that Rickard accepted. ADWD states that Maester Walys gave Rickard the idea to betroth Brandon to Catelyn Tully, which might be a suggestion for him having inspired the betrothal between Robert and Lyanna as well, but if that is the case, we have yet to learn about it. The app states that Robert conceived a passion for Lyanna, and was the one to propose the betrothal; That Eddard was delighted by it; And that Rickard accepted it. In Game, it is implied that Robert has never been to the North “I was starting to think we would never reach Winterfell,” Robert complained as they descended. “In the south, the way they talk about my Seven Kingdoms, a man forgets that your part is as big as the other six combined.” “I trust you enjoyed the journey, Your Grace?” Robert snorted. “Bogs and forests and fields, and scarcely a decent inn north of the Neck. I’ve never seen such a vast emptiness. Where are all your people?” Are you thinking of this passage? “Come south with me, and I’ll teach you how to laugh again,” the king promised. “You helped me win this damnable throne, now help me hold it. We were meant to rule together. If Lyanna had lived, we should have been brothers, bound by blood as well as affection. Well, it is not too late. I have a son. You have a daughter. My Joff and your Sansa shall join our houses, as Lyanna and I might once have done.”
  7. Aerea and Rhaella were hiding in Westeros, Alyssa and her younger children were, according to rumors, not. Queen Alyssa and her two youngest children remained in hiding (it was thought that they had fled across the narrow sea, to Tyrosh or perhaps Volantis), but they still represented a threat to Maegor's crown and any son he might father. Tyanna might have had her connections back in Pentos, but considering the suggested locations, it doesn't seem like that's where they went. It is likely that she was chained while he was still alive, yes. I don't know who might have decided to set her free. That might have been Alyssa, or simply a decision from someone serving at Dragonstone after Alyssa left, before Maegor and Visenya arrived. Perhaps Maegor or his mother even gave the order. A chained but unclaimed dragon on in the stables or in a courtyard would not be considered ideal, I'd say. Sure, they are animals. But George himself also described them to be intelligent (using, according to the SSM, that exact word), and regardless of the fact that they are animals, that means that they can make their own decisions. During the second Tumbleton, Tessarion, riderless, joined in the battle of Vermithor against Seasmoke on her own. Why? We don't know, but Gyldayn speculates: Who can know the heart of a dragon? Was it simple bloodlust that drove the Blue Queen to attack? Did the she-dragon come to help one of the combatants? If so, which? Some will claim that the bond between a dragon and dragonrider runs so deep that the beast shares his master’s loves and hates. But who was the ally here, and who the enemy? Does a riderless dragon know friend from foe? We shall never know the answers to those questions. The bolded part I find rather interesting. If indeed the dragon and dragonrider share a bond which causes the dragon to share the loves and hates of its rider, Quicksilver (who had essentially grown up together with Aenys, and been with him for ~thirty years) might have only followed Aenys's desire to give aid to his heir, whom he was clearly deeply concerned about.
  8. And yet, the dragonless Viserys did not claim his father's dragon. That we know, because if he had, Aegon would not have been able to claim the dragon later on. Viserys outlived his older brother, after all. She saw the safety of her children as more important than immediately trying to claim a dragon. A dragon is difficult to hide, after all. And risk leaving her children orphans? As far as I am aware, we don't know when Jaehaerys and Alysanne claimed their dragons. All we know is that by 48 AC, when Jaehaerys ascended the throne, they had bonded with their dragons, but that doesn't mean that they already had in early 42 AC. Dragons who have a rider are chained. Quicksilver had loat her rider, and thus might not have been anymore. She could have been roaming the Dragonmont freely, like the other rudderless dragon (both wild and previously ridden) did during the reign of Viserys I. As to choosing Crakehall over Driftmark, who knows? At Crakehall there was another dragon, at Driftmark not, as far as we know. That might have made a difference. And the Targaryens on Driftmark were reasonably safe, whereas Aegon and Rhaena were besieged. But dragons are intelligent creatures, so I can't say it is fair to assume that they cannot act on their own. Again, Alyssa's priorities might have been her children, not her husband's dragon. And I would think that she would have wanted to have arrived at Driftmark, not still be at sea. And acting fast would have been important. Alyssa could not predict how long Visenya would be gone.
  9. I might be misreading your reply, but it seems that you are argueing two positions that cannot co-exist. Either Prince Viserys was a dragonrider at the time of his father's death, or he was not. You seem to believe Viserys should have had a dragon of his own in 42 AC, yet you also argue that Quicksilver should have been claimed by Viserys on Dragonstone after Aenys's death. Prince Viserys is not mentioned as having had a dragon, or even an egg, so for the moment, I am going to assume that he hadn't been offered to claim one yet - he was only thirteen at the time, and perhaps the fact that his older brother, the Prince of Dragonstone, did not yet have a dragon he was bonded to was reason enough for his parents to decide he should not yet claim one. As for Quicksilver, when she left Dragonstone, we don't know. But if she had to flee, because Maegor or Visenya tried to attack her, or chain her up, her direction might not have been that strange. Aegon and Rhaena were two people she would have been familiar with, but perhaps even more importantly, aside from Dragonstone and KL, Crakehall Castle would have been the only place where another dragon resided, if I'm not mistaken. It would not only have been Aegon she might have been drawn to. As to why Viserys (and his younger siblings, for that matter), might not have attempted to claim a dragon of their own on Dragonstone after Visenya left... They had, at first, Aenys's cremation to deal with, saying goodbye to their father. After that, they left Dragonstone. "Within hours of [ Aenys's] funeral", Gyldayn writes. Alyssa seems to have made a clear choice: She'd rather ensure she and her children could flee to Driftmark, than risk still being at Dragonstone when Maegor and Visenya returned, only to attempt and claim a dragon.
  10. Sure, the situations are not entirely the same. Yet, dragons are intelligent creatures, and Quicksilver would have likely been most familiar with Aenys's heir, which could possibly have played a part. If Quicksilver would have needed to flee from Dragonstone, say, because Balerion and/or Vhagar had attacked her, that might have spurred her to seek out others she was familiar with... Thanks!
  11. 35 AC? Could you link that, because i cannot find that.. Or did you mean 25 AC?
  12. I certainly do think it is possible We are looking at a time period of 32 years, from 11 AC to 43 AC. I this time period, there were six High Septons (at least, since we know nothing about the number of High Septons in between 37 AC and 43 AC. It seems more likely to me that each of these High Septons served for a while in their office, than that five of them died with the timespan of 13 years, between 11 AC and 24 AC, and that the sixth served almost twice as long as his five predecessors did combined. The ninety-year old Septon who was chosen to succeed him and who died after a year, seems to be more of an exception than the rule in terms of how long a High Septon generally serves. Sure, there are nearly two decades in between. The first could, for example, perhaps have been the younger son of Lord Manfred who had taken his septon's vows, while the second was related to Martyn's wife or mother, or the husband of a sister of Martyn. There are quite a lot of possibilities. But with six High Septons in between 11 and 37 AC, I see no reason to assume that the guy who held the office in 24 AC must have been the same guy as in 43 AC. He could have been, but he just as well could have been someone else entirely.
  13. I personally don't see any contradiction of any kind here. So the guy is specified by name in one edition, but not in the other. That shouldn't matter. Is there anything that suggests that there is an inconsistency here? Not really. The only thing we don't know is how Daemon and Alyssa are related. The current family tree displays that properly. Again, I don't see anything here that has not already been solved. Ran's answer on Lord Varys's question (the next post in the link) is clear. Morgan is Martyn's brother, not the High Septon's. That's the error there. Patrice is the maiden aunt of Martyn and Morgan. A younger brother of Morgan and Martyn took his septon's vows. Whether he rose to be the High Septon, we don't know. That's never confirmed. Manfred Hightower, Lord of Oldtown, was a cautious lord, and godly. One of his younger sons served with the Warrior's Sons, and another had only recently taken vows as a septon. (TWOIAF, The Reign of the Dragons: The Conquest) The High Septon who lived during the Conquest died in 11 AC, and six others took the office between 11 AC and 37 AC. The High Septon who held the office in 24 and 25 AC was the uncle of Ceryse Hightower: Queen Visenya proposed that Maegor be wed to Aenys's first child, Rhaena, but the High Septon mounted a vigorous protest, and Maegor was wed instead to the High Septon's own niece, Lady Ceryse of House Hightower. (TWOIAF, The Targaryen Kings: Aenys I) Ceryse was the daughter of Martyn Hightower, the Lord of Oldtown. She was advanced by her uncle, the High Septon, after he protested the betrothal of the thirteenyear-old Prince Maegor to Maegor's newborn niece, Princess Rhaena. Ceryse and Maegor were married in 25 AC. (TWOIAF, The Targaryen Kings: Maegor I) [...] and when word reached Oldtown’s Starry Sept, the High Septon sent a raven, warning the king that such a marriage would not be looked upon with favor by the Faith. He proposed a different bride for Maegor: Ceryse Hightower, maiden daughter to the Lord of Oldtown (and the High Septon’s own niece). (The Sons of the Dragon) We don't know whether this High Septon was kin by marriage, or kin by blood. But with six different High Septons holding the office in between 11 AC and 37 AC, it seems highly likely and logical that the man who was High Septon in 24 AC (when the possible betrothal between Maegor and Rhaena was protested) was no longer in office in 43 AC (when the High Septon was kin by marriage to House Hightower). The High Septon who mysteriously dies in 43 AC (the date of 44 AC given in TWOIAF has been confirmed to have been incorrect) was definitely "kin by marriage". But exactly how this relation goes, we are not told. The conflict thus averted flared up again a generation later, however, during the bloody struggle between the Faith and the Conqueror's second son, the aptly named King Maegor the Cruel. The High Septon during the first years of Maegor's reign was kin by marriage to the Hightowers. His sudden death in 44 AC—shortly after King Maegor had threatened to incinerate the Starry Sept with dragonfire in his fury over His High Holiness's condemnation of his later marriages—is considered quite fortuitous, as it allowed Lord Martyn Hightower to open his gates before Balerion and Vhagar unleashed their flames. (TWOIAF, The Reach: Oldtown) And Ran's answer has made it clear that the paragraph that follows contains the error that "His High Holiness" was the brother of Morgan and Martyn. He was not. The unexpected nature of the High Septon's death in 44 AC aroused much suspicion, however, and whispers of murder persist to this day. Some believe His High Holiness was removed by his own brother, Ser Morgan Hightower, commander of the Warrior's Sons in Oldtown (and it is undeniably true that Ser Morgan was the sole Warrior's Son pardoned by King Maegor). Others suspect Lord Martyn's maiden aunt, the Lady Patrice Hightower, though their argument seems to rest upon the belief that poison is a woman's weapon. It has even been suggested that the Citadel might have played a role in the removal of the High Septon, though this seems far-fetched at best. (TWOIAF, The Reach: Oldtown) That Patrice is the maiden aunt of Martyn (and thus also Morgan), indicates that she was the sister of Lord Manfred, who, by the time of Maegor's second marriage, had already died, after which Lord Martyn had assumed rule of the HIghtower Nor was His Grace alone in his wroth. Lord Hightower, father of Lady Ceryse, made protest to the king, demanding that Lady Alys be put aside. (The Sons of the Dragon) (The king had him lay hands on Lady Ceryse’s belly every night, in the hopes that his brother might repent his folly if his lawful wife could be made fertile, but the lady soon grew weary of the nightly ritual and departed King’s Landing for Oldtown, where she rejoined her father in the Hightower.) (The Sons of the Dragon) And Manfred, we know, had at least three sons (Martyn, Morgan, and a younger son who took a septon's vows) and at least two daughters. (Some say that Lord Hightower also offered up the hand of his youngest daughter, which Aegon declined politely, lest it offend his two queens). The statement in The Sons of the Dragon that Ceryse was the sister of the Lord of the Hightower seems to be an error.
  14. Yes. I read this section as an explanation as to why Aegon did not go to war again with Dorne in the later years of his reign, by explaining that after 13 AC, he decided to end his attempts, and that the sincerity of the decision was exemplified by Aegon celebrating the tenth anniversary of the peace (in 23 AC) in Dorne.
  15. Ran, About the grace period for the Sons of the Dragon, how long would you like it to be? Two weeks, or a full month?