Rhaenys_Targaryen

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  1. We distinguish each of those texts in each character's infobox, which is why I chose to do it here as well. But should we indeed run out of space, changing THK, TSS , and TMK for AKOTSK might indeed be a idea!
  2. Would you happen to know what the limit of the size of a page is?
  3. Work on the new List of Characters is going slowly, but progress is made. I've placed in on this page to work on. If anyone has any comments or suggestions, please do not hesitate to make them! I'm currently wondering about the size. I'm not yet at 50 %, yet I've already passed more than half of the capacity a page has for its size, I think. I'm thinking about using templates to lower the kilobyte count (as working with a template would allow me to omit constantly having to redefine the style parameters (column width and text align)), but I'm not sure whether that will actually help reduce the overall size in kb. Any further thoughts on this?
  4. Is that Visenya in the background? Or does the featurette not specify this?
  5. I have to disagree that that must necessarily be the case. The second part of the sentence is connected to the first part of the sentence, thereby implying, in my opinion, that Quicksilver was born the year he was given to Aenys. Regardless of how old Aenys was at the time. I am simply trying to consolidate the two accounts that we have.
  6. I have to disagree on the bolded statement. I'd say that "Not until he was given the young dragon Quicksilver, a hatchling born that year on Dragonstone, did Aenys Targaryen begin to thrive." associates the year Quicksilver was given to Aenys to the year of his birth. Not to Aenys's year of birth. Would a dragon still be called a hatchling when its a few years old already? I think that's unlikely, especially considering that the definition of "hatchling" states that the animals has recently hatched from its egg.
  7. Cool! Baelish has, for as far as a quick search has turned up, not been associated with purple directly. However, Baelish is of Braavosi descent, and the Braavosi ships are known for their purple sails, so there might indeed be a connection.
  8. I've been working on the new List of characters, and at this point I would really appreciate some feedback. (From the parts that are in the preview, only the letter J is not yet complete).
  9. I think it is a stretch so assume that Arya's statement is an assumption. Nothing in Arya's POV suggests that she is guessing at his age. They've known each other for a while by that point, so it wouldn't be strange for his age to have come up in conversation. The fact that his age is not mentioned again, either before or after, means nothing imo. Edric is twelve years old in 299 AC, placing his birth in 286 AC or 287 AC. Devan is older, and known to have been 11 at some point in 299 AC, and 12 in 300 AC. As Devan's possible years of birth are 287 AC and 288 AC (either having been 10 turning 11 in 299 AC and 11 turning 12 in 300 AC, or 11 turning 12 in 299 AC and 12 turning 13 in 300 AC), and Edric is the younger boy of the two, both of them must have been born in the same year, as no other option is possible, given the numbers we have. That means that Edric and Devan do differ months from one another. Regardless, although they are half-brothers, we cannot simply apply Edric's appearance to Gendry Brienne believes that Gendry, when she meets him, is younger than Renly had been when he came to Tarth, which she earlier on had said was during his coming of age tour (so Renly had been 16 years old at the time). Although Brienne also admits that she is terrible at judging how old a child is, and indeed judges Podrick Payne's age at ten, when he is in fact two or three years older. (Although she usually judges children too young, instead of too old). I'll add Brienne's statement about judging Gendry to be younger than 16 when she meets him in 300 AC, but I must say that her statement still fits with Arya's, so the outcome will remain unchanged at the moment (at least until we get further textual information). That Gendry is 15 (or younger) in 300 AC indicates that he was born no earlier than 284 AC (as he, at most, will turn 16 later that year). Arya's statement about him being 5 years older than her then eliminates the possibility of him being much younger than that.
  10. Looks good!
  11. If there's enough information to create a page on the ambush, I see no reason not to have one
  12. I've removed the quote again, as the pieces of important information from it have been incorperated into the text. Giving the entire quote (it's a long one) is not preferable imo. Martin states a few things in his quote: 1) Richard Madden is a great young actor and we want to see him on screen, thus see Robb's storyline (as opposed to following ACOK exactly, where he is entirely off screen). Martin states he agreed with this choice. 2) The second decision is changing the story, giving Robb a new motivation, changing the personality of his wife, her background, etc., 3) because of point 2, Martin suggested to change her name, because a) Jeyne is not a volantene name, and b ) "if we're gonna have a "different character", we should have a different name for her as well. Otherwise, people are gonna get really confused." These three points contain all the info that is important, as Martin's first sentence ("Literally, in the case of Jeyne Westerling/Talisa, it is a completely different character. So that's not even, you know, 'two different versions of the same character', it's a DIFFERENT character, and a different storyline there...") contains the same info as the quote under b )., a quote which remains literally quoted in the text as it is now. So quoting the entire thing is simply not necessary, as the information from it is worked into the text above. The only part where we don't know what he means by it is "... but also that's not a...well, I don't know I shouldn't say more about that.". In my opinion, this sentence adds nothing to the explanation of why the changes were made, and since that's what the section is explaining, that's what the information should stick too. Perhaps others could weigh in on this? Not at all
  13. According to his wiki-page, Aemon Blackfyre was mentioned in A Storm of Swords. I cannot find the quote. Does anyone know if he is indeed mentioned?
  14. Overall, I think there is quite some repetition, and the section could do with some shuffeling of the info. The most important comments that I have are given below, with the quoted parts of your text they apply to. "One possibility was that she was a noblewoman pretending to be a healer to go unnoticed as she helped wounded soldiers." Talissa wasn’t pretending to be a healer. She was performing the duties of a healer. If you are suggesting here that “Jeyne Westerling” was pretending to be a woman named “Talisa” so she could go unnoticed in the war-struck westerlands and so prevent getting caught by Stark soldiers on account of her noble blood, that’s simply what you should say This would actually have some thematic resonance with the novels - in which Jeyne's mother, Sybell Spicer, was in fact a spy for Tywin Lannister and knew the Red Wedding was going to happen. Thus if Talisa was a Lannister spy, it would be more of a case of condensing mother and daughter into a single character. Sybel was not a spy for Tywin; As far as we know, she did not pass on any information about Robb to him. Nor did Sybell know about the Red Wedding: “I have two sons as well,” Lady Westerling reminded him. “Rollam is with me, but Raynald was a knight and went with the rebels to the Twins. If I had known what was to happen there, I would never have allowed that.” There was a hint of reproach in her voice. (AFFC) Martin directly stated that the storyline with Talisa in Season 2 of the TV series is not simply what happens "off-screen" in the books with Robb and Jeyne Westerling. Martin did not agree with this change. Is this based on the “but also that's not a...well, I don't know I shouldn't say more about that."” portion of the quote? I can’t say that there’s a definitive indication of Martin not agreeing with the change in this (I’m not saying that there is no proof, I'm saying that the quote you cite as proof might not actually be proof). Martin revealed that this was not a single decision to change "Jeyne Westerling" to "Talisa from Volantis" - there was actually an intermediary step, when they were calling her "Jeyne from Volantis", with no surname. This is significant because it explains the previously not understood casting information from August 11 2011, when Westeros.org contacted HBO but was told that Chaplin's character was just named "Jeyne" with no surname. On September 16 2011, filming spies reported that Chaplin introduced her character in dialogue as "Talisa". Thus at some point in that single month, as Season 2 was filming, Martin had a specific meeting with Benioff and Weiss at which he urged them that this wasn't really the same character as from the books, so they should outright give her a different name. I’d move this to above, where you are actually discussing the casting call, and use the following information to explain the name change from Jeyne to Talissa: In August 2011, HBO told Westeros.org that Chaplin was cast as “Jeyne”. By September 2011, her name had been changed to “Talissa” ("Lissa [sic] from Volantis") According to Bryan Cogman (interview thinkprogress June 8 2012 & interview winteriscoming.net April 2013), the character was originally called “Jeyne”, but her name was changed to “Talisa” during production by Benioff and Weiss, after the writing for season 2 had already been officially wrapped up. The name change has been suggested by Martin, who felt that “Jeyne” was not the name of a Volantene noblewomen (as stated in the introduction paragraph of the page, lacking a source), and because he felt that the character, as Weiss and Benioff had created her, was too different from “Jeyne Westerling” in Martin’s novels. (Your interview quote shows Martin stating that the characters are two different people, but does not cite that this difference was a reason for Martin to suggest the name change, so such a source should be added here as well). Initially, there was some confusion about Talisa being a foreign noblewoman specifically from Volantis, given that the aristocracy of that city are particularly obsessed with being pureborn descendants of the Valyrians, thus they all look like Targaryens: pale skin, blonde hair, purple eyes. Volantene aristocrats are quite descriminatory about racial/ethnic appearance. Chaplin, in contrast, is half-Chilean, with dark hair and olive skin - leading to the simple question of why they made her from Volantis instead of another Free City such as Myr (whose inhabitants actually match that her physical appearance). Talisa in the books actually does have a somewhat darker toned appearance, chestnut hair and brown eyes, due to her maternal grandmother actually being a foreigner from the Free Cities (which one isn't specified). Two things here: The Old Blood, nobles who can prove their unbroken descent from Old Valyria, make up only part of the population of Volantis. As far as I can recall, it has never been stated that there are no nobles living in Volantis who do not belong to the Old Blood. In addition, although the Old Blood trace their descent to the Valyrians, and the appearance of the Valyrians is a typical one (purple/blue eyes, silver hair, pale skin), it has never been stated that al Volantene-born people have the Valyrian appearance. For example, Qavo Nogarys (customs officer in Selhorys), is nobleborn, but has black hair. Nor can I recall Tyrion remarking upon the Valyrian appearance of people during his time in Selhory and Volantis. So the conclusion that all Volantene look like Valyrians/Targaryens is more an assumption. Comparing Talissa’s appearance to Jeyne’s and remarking upon the fact that Jeyne has eastern ancestors might better be moved to the “Volantis” part of the change. Writer Bryan Cogman was also asked about the change in subsequent interviews.[5][6] Cogman explained that he was not directly involved in the change or the writing of this storyline, Benioff and Weiss were, and he had no say in it. Cogman did admit, however, that the change from Jeyne to Talisa was made "during production", after the formal writers' room period for Season 2 had officially wrapped (matching up with the casting announcements and on-set reports). The decision to actually show Robb on-screen at all in Season 2 had been made much earlier than that of course, instead of just giving him the season off and then reappearing in Season 3 (if they strickly followed the books - even Martin didn't want to do that). Cogman also provided some vague explanation for why "Talisa" is from Volantis: the writers had just finished reading A Dance With Dragons after it was released in the break between Season 1 and Season 2, and realized that Volantis was going to be a major location that would actually appear on-screen in later TV seasons, so they wanted to start laying groundwork to introduce it. The bolded part is only about the name change, and would be better suited above (as indicated earlier) About the italic text, I'm not sure if this is even necessary to mention, as it is neither about the name change, nor the background change, nor the character change itself. The last section is not Cogman’s “vague explanation”. This is Cogman’s speculation. The TV writers, realizing that other Free Cities such as Myr may never appear on-screen in the TV series, might simply have decided to drop the story detail about Volantene aristocrats priding themselves on their Valyrian heritage (perhaps making "TV-Volantis" a sort of condensation of book-Volantis and book-Myr, due to limits of adaptation). You are the one who suggests Myr. I’d say stick to the facts. Cogman suggests that the producers (not writers) decided to use Volantis because it was set to reappear in later seasons. There’s nothing that suggests a condensation of Volantis and Myr from the books. In parallel, they may have thought it would take too long to explain that House Westerling is a minor Lannister vassal House that switches sides to the Starks, so they changed Jeyne/Talisa to be a foreigner This is pure speculation. keeping only the core point that she is a political nobody, and Robb gains nothing by marrying her. Although I would personally rephrase this to suite the wikipedia-style better (not calling her a political nobody, but rephrasing it to say that she has no political power in the Seven Kingdoms), the point that the end result of marrying her with regards to "the political advantage the marriage gives Robb" is the same can remain, because it is important to point out. Thus "why Jeyne Westerling was changed to Talisa" is actually posing two separate questions: This bolded intercepting questing is quite unnecesssary, because the first of the two bullet points that follow is mostly repeating what you have already said. If you condense that precedes this (remove your own speculations about Myr, remove unnecessary comparisons with Yara Greyjoy and Alton Lannister, etc.) the text in the first bullet point is basically what the end result will be.. After the Robb Stark character was killed off during the Red Wedding at the end of Season 3 of the TV series, Benioff and Weiss bluntly admitted in an interview with Entertainment Weekly: Benioff: "In the TV show, we've spent more time focused on Robb than in the books, mainly because we love Richard Madden as an actor."[7] Jeyne from the books was changed to a romance storyline with "Talisa", specifically because Benioff and Weiss wanted to pander Richard Madden, the actor, in his performance as a romantic lead That’s not what the quoted part said. They say that Robb received more screen time because they loved the actor. Giving him a romantic storyline would not necessarily have required to change Jeyne into Talisa the way they had. (for example, he could have fallen in love with the captive nobleborn daughter of a Lannister lord). If there never was an abandoned storyline, and what appeared on-screen in the final version is what they always intended, Benioff and Weiss themselves have stated that they invented a romance subplot with Jeyne/Talisa primarily to show off Richard Madden, the actor. If their original intention was for her to be a Lannister spy, it was purely meant to fuel Madden's performance when the revelation of her betrayal left him heartbroken. An abandoned storyline is pure speculation, as is the possible result that might have come from that story line. Thus the change from Jeyne Westerling to Talisa happened, because it was one of the earlier examples of "We reconceived the role to make it worthy of the actor's talents". The only thing you have cited is that the producers wanted to give Richard Madden more screen time. You’ve cited nothing about them wanting to give Oona Chaplin more screen time, which is what you imply by citing the expansion of Indirma’s screen time as an example.
  15. My thoughts on the current Talisa article are: 1. The introduction paragraph is too long. Something like "Talisa Maegyr is a Volantene noble woman working the battlefields of the westerlands as a healer during the War of the Five Kings. She appears only in the TV series, where she is played by Oona Chaplin. Her character replaces Jeyne Westerling as the love interest and later wife of King Robb Stark." This would limit spoilers, as well as remove the information it holds now that is better suited elsewhere on the page (for example, the "behind the scenes" section) 2. The "Game of Thrones" section has no references. Those should definitely be added. All Game of Thrones episodes have their own reference code. The "Background" section could be placed under "History" (for consistency), while the "Season 2" and "Season 3" sections can remain under the "Game of Thrones" heading. 3. The "Behind the scenes" section reads as an essay. I personally think that it should be trimmed significantly, and that the original research should be removed, as Ran says. 4. Concerning the entire text, the interlinking needs some work. Interlinking is currently limited, and should be increased. Additionally, to link to pages on the regular wikipedia, you need to add "w:", for example: [[w:Bryan Cogman|Bryan Cogman]]. That said, the GoT pages are in need of an update, so the fact that the page is being updated is great.