JNR

Members
  • Content count

    2,394
  • Joined

  • Last visited

6 Followers

About JNR

  • Rank
    Council Member

Profile Information

  • Gender
    Male

Recent Profile Visitors

1,700 profile views
  1. It's a good question. At the moment, I think it's possible Ned promised Lyanna he would tell Jon the truth about his parents one day, and was realizing in AGOT that due to a change in the political weather, he might never keep that promise. Things looked exceedingly dim for him at this point: If so, the same idea is probably also behind: Sometimes I wonder if GRRM is haunted by dark disturbing dreams of broken promises on the subject of finishing ASOIAF.
  2. Theoretically possible, though it would stretch the concept of skinchanging to its outermost limit to picture one guy commanding all his fellow NW (dozens? hundreds?) for multiple years against their will. However, even in this scenario, it doesn't appear likely that this same entity would still be alive and well thousands of years later, and to play some sort of role in the last two books.
  3. That's true from a plot standpoint, of course. However, it's still clear there is a substantial cultural taboo against brother/sister incest in Westeros society, and that it would likely have applied to Ned and Lyanna as well. So while it's theoretically possible Ned and Lyanna messed around at some point, that premise is not likely to be something Jon would believe could be responsible for his conception, especially if it broke the established timeline of his birth relative to the Rebellion, which it would unless he also found out he was older than he was ever told.
  4. Yes, as far as we know there has been no sign of this entity for thousands of years, and even in the stories, he was only a human being who was the LC of the Watch. Doesn't seem likely he would still be around.
  5. Well, I think there is a taboo; Cersei and Jaime have certainly always known that, ever since they started fooling around and were caught and stopped (for a while anyway). Only the Targs openly and routinely commit brother/sister incest as a social norm in Westeros. But timeline problems will also make it impossible for Jon to believe his parents are Ned and Lyanna, unless he also finds out he's months older than he thinks, which is a more speculative matter IMO. The RLJ camp is fond of arguing that if he were that much older, it would also mean he was significantly older than Robb, and it would have been obvious to Catelyn in contrasting Jon and Robb as infants when she got to Winterfell. The RLJ camp might be right.
  6. That's the claim from Craster's wives, but we have no way to know if the claim has any foundation. They aren't the ones who dump babies in the woods -- we're told all the rangers know Craster does that. It's Craster who claims he's a godly man, and who apparently has the Popsicles in mind in referring to gods. If Craster told the wives this was happening, that the babies were picked up by Popsicles to become more Popsicles, the wives would likely believe him. So has Gilly ever actually even seen a Popsicle? In any way, let alone a Popsicle in the act of picking up a baby? Jon thinks she has... because she knows what color the Popsicles' eyes are -- blue. But what this means is that Jon is just awful at logical interrogation or reasoning. Because Jon also knows the Popsicles have blue eyes and yet he has never seen a Popsicle in his life! He knows that tidbit purely from things he was told. So too might Gilly. You'd think this would be obvious to Jon, but as with his decision to join the Watch, he is just not using his head.
  7. Well, he certainly calls out the Popsicles in particular as a threat: We can choose to believe him that they're a threat, or not believe him, as we see fit. On this, we have GRRM's own word for it that the Popsicles do raise the wights, or they did as of October 1993: Of course, he may have changed his design since then... though I don't think he did.
  8. I don't think she does. Book wights are slow and clumsy, and hence "shamble," as Small Paul does there, whereas the Popsicles glide smoothly. They are the tools of their masters and do as their masters wish; we also see this in Othor attacking Lord Commander of the Watch Mormont in the first book. However, the Popsicles can't raise the dead south of the Wall, because if they could it surely would have been happening all along on a mass scale. So Othor was already turned prior to being taken south, and was playing possum, which is also why his eyes were suddenly blue. His job is to escort Bran and Co. to the cave, and he knows the white walkers and wights will kill Bran and Co. at any opportunity (and they very nearly do).
  9. This is also possible. He might find out both that (a) Lyanna is his mother and (b) he is older than he thinks. That would in turn open up all kinds of options in his head. I'm just saying if he only gets (a), and he buys it, and never gets (b), he's probably not going to think he's the product of incest.
  10. -- George R. R. Martin It's possible that Jon will ultimately play a heroic role, and personally save all Westeros from the forces of evil, but that still wouldn't make Jon the protagonist of the series. GRRM would have to have written ASOIAF via a central character -- Jon -- all along, and he just... didn't. He instead chose a large and growing list of POVs, of which Jon is only one.
  11. I'm not sure, but I've always been fond of the idea that Dany will be killed on the first page of chapter one of TWOW, and that Rhaegar (looking down from ASOIAF Heaven) will sigh and sadly intone: "Two heads has the dragon."
  12. Well, assuming you're right and he only discovers Lyanna was his mother, thinking the above might depend on his command of the timeline of Robert's Rebellion. Jon has a birthday and knows both it and his age. He also surely knows when Robert's Rebellion happened and that it lasted a year. So this would mean Jon believes, confidently, that he was born around the time Robert's Rebellion ended. Ergo, he also believes he must have been conceived about nine months earlier, and therefore, he could only be the son of Ned if Ned had encountered his sister Lyanna and had sex with her some three months after the war began. I think he'd be skeptical of this event having happened since it was never mentioned or documented anywhere. Lyanna isn't said to have disappeared, then turned up in Ned's company after multiple months, then disappeared again for multiple months, then finally found before she died. So in conclusion, I think Jon might surmise that if Lyanna is in fact his mother, Ned cannot be his father.
  13. Wisely said. The PtwP is just a character who was prophesied and who appears to be closely connected to the Targs and of interest to them because of the role he or she was destined to play (which certainly seems to involve "waking dragons" and may invove more). But there is no protagonist in these books. They are not about the PtwP, any more than they have been all along. Yes, this is a popular view, but a more accurate rendition of the above would be: