Luddagain

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  1. Some of this is spot on but not all. 1. Wylla is certainly significant and like you I agree that Wylla Manderly has some connection to Jon (and Edrik Dayne). Note that there was another Wylla (Fenn so probably from the Neck) who gave birth to a Snow via a Brandon Stark. 2. The Green hair is certainly a bit of a find - you may be on to something re her Targness and possibly who her mother and father is/was. 3. I do think that Aerys raped Ashara and her "stillborn" daughter was her child. However i think that she really had a son who is Aegon swapped willingly by Elia for her child. 4. I have another super duper wacky idea that Elia was keen to have her child "stillborn" because it was not a child of Rhaegar's. Rather I think it was Elia that Brandon played around with. (or Arthur Dayne). Such a child is too old to be Jon or Edrik or even Meera but could be the mysterious Allyria Dayne.
  2. This is possibly the most a-historical comment i have ever read on this site. Firstly children do not make the parents their heirs today or in the middle ages. It is assumed they will die first so making them heirs is not advised (try making a will for example) The whole point of an heir is to ensure smooth trouble free succession and naming Catelyn would be silly because she has no heirs. If she took a new husband you are suggesting that some child of hers by an unknown man or her nephew Robin should be the heir.That is beyond stupid and Robb may be silly sometimes but not that silly. Making her a regent is of course quite possible and even likely and had any one of Robb's siblings been alive then I have little doubt that he would have named her regent or co-regent.If Jeyne had a child then that too would be possible. I must admit I rather thought that GRRM would have actually have a plot line such that Catelyn herself was pregnant with a sixth child (it was hinted at in her first chapter) which would have been a nice confusing touch but he obviously abandoned the idea. However the idea that Catelyn would be the official heir to Winterfell is truly absurd. Not only would it go against the rules of inheritance in the South it obviously would breach the whole First men ethos of the North. Of course IF Robb or any of the Starks do have a child then that child is in a very powerful position potentially, being heir to both The North and Riverun (probably as I think Edmure is sterile - the whole floppy fish song). Now should Bran and Rickon have no heirs and should Sansa eventually marry Robin (or Harry the heir) her children would be heirs to THREE kingdoms.
  3. If you look at the companion world book there are as many races ethnicity as in our real world plus a few semi humans. Just about every nation on the planet gets a look in EXCEPT the Americas. We have Chinese, Japanese, Caribbeans, Greeks, Italians Scandinavians, Spanish, North Africans, Vikings Germanic peoples Celts pre Celts
  4. Skeletons 4 times in the first book by four different people. This is GRRM so it is BLOODY important. Why must there always be a Stark at Winterfell? Until you know the answer to that question you cannot sensibly rule it out. I thought it was a pretty clear assumption that "Must be a Stark at Winterfell" was strong tradition like cutting off heads by Lord and burying the dead in the crypts with a sword and a direwolf statue. I use the term Old Gods more generally to include all those matters that formed part of the Pact and also most of the stuff relating to the wall - and the 79 deserters etc. GRRM is really into bloodlines etc and a Tully is a Tully not a Stark. In any case GRRM's world is Europe in the middle ages and the one thing you can be ABSOLUTELY sure of is that wives do not inherit unless they are also in the line of descent. Even where they are regents it almost lays led to civil war and rebellion and the foreigner was hated. Catelyn has a strong claim to inherit Riverun if Edmure dies and I suspect she may also become the rightful heir to Harrenhall too. But she has no claim whatsoever to the North. Of course all power comes out of the barrel of a gun or int his case spears, swords, arrow and pikes. if Catelyn led a host of many thousands, experienced in Northern warfare she just might exercise such a claim. But in the absence of such - ho hum. However I think it is bloody obvious and has been since GoT that Catelyn will support Sansa for the "throne" of Winterfell against Jon/Rickon. Ned's thoughts foreshadowed this and it is very very clear it will happen. The breaking of Ice into two also foreshadows such a battle. In this case Sansa will be supported by an army from the Vale and probably with Cat's assistance also many of the River lords. The North will not support them. I suspect it will be to end that bloody ar that Bran will leave his cave and rule Winterfell passing it on to some descendent of Rickon, perhaps married to some descendant of Rickon and Jon and Arya and Sansa - all four perhaps. Bandon is now 9/10. He rules until he is 85 (like Walder Frey and the other aged Stark. In 75 years some great and great great grand kids of our Starks can inherit.
  5. What story are you reading. It is certainly not the Song of Ice and Fire. Recall we start the story with the ice Family - Starks and the fire family - Dany. The who GoT stuff and the Tully alliance is a big distraction and indeed may be the actual REASON that the Others have arisen again- probably not but still possible. There must always be a STARK at Winterfell. Catelyn is NOT a Stark. She cannot inherit by the laws of the IT OR the mystical rule of the Old Gods. ONLY if she married some other vague Stark relation - eg Karstark might it even be a vague possibility. She could of course be named regent, but after the Jaime business I doubt Robb would do that as she would not be trusted by the Northerners. He would name his unborn child as heir. If Robb were rational- which I think he is he would name for his unborn child three co-regents 1. Someone strong from the North but without a claim to Winterfell even indirectly - probably Great Jon or Manderley 2. Someone from his Tully side - Blackfish probably (he did not respect Edmure's judgement) 3. Someone wise who just cared for the Starks/Robb - Maester Luwin perhaps. He would look to marry his mother off to someone whom he trusted but would also be a strong ally. Someone from the Riverlands or Vale I would think. He might even name Arya as regent until such time as his child came of age, provided she was unmarried and lived at Winterfell. In the even of their not being an heir he MIGHT name Arya (if found alive) provided she never married and remained a Stark. This would prevent her being used as a pawn. He would need some time limit on finding her eg by the time she has her 12th name day However on the assumption that Arya is dead Robb would have no choice but to name Jon. However we must not ignore the mystical essentials - There must always be a "Stark at Winterfell." Who is a Stark. It must be assumed it is some sort of bloodline possibly via the male line but I suspect that it is a FEMALE line thing - or maybe a both male and female thing as it is with dragon riders. If Robb is wise then he would naturally name Jon but if Jon were dead or not available then who. The problem with the descendants of the daughters of Jocelyn Stark is that they are not of the North and he would not know if they were trusted, They may even be Lannisters. Indeed I am practically certain that the actual heir of Jocelyn Stark is little Walda Frey, (the unknown daughter) Harry the Heir (waynwood) or possibly horrible Courbrey. Horrible thought - it could EVEN be Littlefinger - we do not know who is mother or grandmother or great grandmother is. For this reason I think Robb would exclude all such descendants. He could go back through the family records I guess to find other lost Starks or Snows. There are an awful lot of missing Starks who may have had descendants. I rather suspect we will find many in the Company of the Rose and also in the blood lines of those beyond the wall. I will take a wild guess that Bael the Bard was a Stark descendant (this would be essential if Ygritte's tale is true and if male Starkness is essential for the blood line. Probably also Mance Raydar.
  6. As I noted on the other thread, the whole point of the heir stuff is that under Catelyn's view the actual heir would be in this order Possibly a Waynwood Unkown possibly non existant - could be harry the heir) Possibly a Corbray - Descendants of Perrara Royce who is obviously NOT named by accident Edwyn Frey Baby Walda Blackwalder Perra (baby) Walton Frey Steffan Frey Bryan Frey Fair Walda Descendants of Maegelle Vance
  7. If Robb named Cat as heir even as regent he would be showing himself a fool. Catelyn does NOT have a following among the Northern Lord nor any military strength. If and only if she married a Northern Lord could that work and that would pose other problems. He probably did name Cat as a co regent for any child of Jeyne's but he could very well have named Jon as co-regent or perhaps Maester Luwin or one of the Mormants. He might have nominated Blackfish as a regent, but he has never been to the North so not a good choice. As I have pointed out before Catelyn's folly in suggesting a Royce heir is essentially nominating Black Walder Frey as heir since I doubt that it is by accident that we are told that Walder Frey's first wife was Perrerra Royce.
  8. Medieval Britain was much warmer than today and wine was grown certainly in Southern areas. I see Dorne (at least initially as being warm like Cornwall. Not only were there bogs but the whole Neck is very like the mystical areas of Britain where druids hung out - marshy and boggy. The North seems very like Scotland/Scandinavia
  9. GRRM is a bloody good writer who does his research well. Westeros is Britain of the middle ages and Essos the rest of Europe and north Africa GRRM seems to have a specialist interest (obsession!!!) with medieval diet and feasts. He used corn on the general sense and would NEVER have introduced potatoes or tomatoes. So the things that actually have or eat will be those things that were available in medieval Britain. They have Linen but not cotton. Silk was known of although a great luxury. So it is not an accident that they did not have potatoes. I do not think that the is any new World at all in Planetos and nothing whatever of the Americas. We certainly can see the arctic lands and China, Japan, the middle east and India seems to be there if distantly. Southeros is Sub-saharan Africa and the Summer Isles i guess the Caribbean and Ultheros Australia and South East Asia.
  10. Given we now know Neanderthals are just a very divergent RACE not a separate species and that interbreeding did occur, I think we can confidently assume the the Ibbenese are pretty much the last of the neanderthals. For those of you who have not caught up on biology over the last 5 years the separate species neanderthal idea has been chucked out and we know that Europeans (and most Asians) have 1-4% Neanderthal contribution (not the same 4%). Only Africans have no ancestral neanderthal. Since this information was a pretty hot topic about the time the world book was written I think it probable that this has been built in. Not sure about those Denisovians though. GRRM is remiss!!!!
  11. In British history the great lords would have been Dukes and the next level down Earls and the rest just Lords or landed knights. Obviously Dorn are still called Prince and Princess. Tywin, Ned, and Jon would have been Dukes and their children referred to as Lord/Lady. Tully and Tyrell would probably have been Earls. Stanis and Renley would have been Dukes.
  12. I also feel that Robb Stark (and also Brandon) has a lot of similarity to the Lancaster boy Henry V and Jon (and Ned) a lot of similarity to John Duke of Bedford (Henry V's brother). Bran and Rickon could also sit in for the other two brothers - Humphrey and Thomas.
  13. Ian Dunross Catelyn had NO business arresting Tyrion or at least she could have arrested him and taken him to KL for trial. To do otherwise was stupid beyond measure. No I do not get the Jon hate. Sure some might see him as boring and a bit of a trope, but hating him seems absurd. Other than being a bit whiny as a 14 year old when forced to leave his home and live in a cold cell with rapists and murderers (effectively sent to jail for the rest of his life) he is pretty decent. He is arrogant at first but not as much as say Wymar Royce, and listens and grasps what Noye says. He then makes amends. It is hard NOT to have sympathy for any child raised as a second class citizen in a big house, where they are handled with injustice and unkindness. For Jon it is the treatment handed out by Catelyn, for Arya it is mostly Septa Morane but Catelyn a little. Sam Tarley his dad, Tyrion his dad. If we ever met them I might feel sympathy for the Frey bastards, or little Joy Hill. Even Jeyne Poole must have has a bit of a hard time being the second best to Sansa always.
  14. Sorry to shock you but LS IS Catelyn Tully - her REAL self. Being reborn sort of brings to the front the deep persona. Beric was a noble if foolhardy Catelyn is just a self centred woman. I can think of NOTHING that essentially distinguishes her from Cersei, other than bonking her brother. Both put their kids ahead of all others and are prepared to be cruel and murderous if necessary Cersei - Robert's kids, Catelyn Ned's son. Because Robert was a fool and weak she could get away with murder. Catelyn was more passive but essentially was hoping for Jon's death via NW. If Ned had been a weak man Jon would have been packed off somewhere with poor food and no care in the hope he would die as a small child. Catelyn as LS was prepared to murder poor little Podrik - a boy of 12. Ned would NEVER have condoned this, nor even Dany for all her savagery. Think on this. Rickard Karstark murdered two young squires (older than Podrik) and for this act of revenge, born of grief for his sons, Robb removes his head. Catelyn is prepared to murder Podrick for exactly the same reasons, but she has more sympathy that Karstark. why? Because she is a woman? Because she is a Stark? Catelyn committed an act of treason in releasing Jaime. There is no other word for it. Sure I can have sympathy for her in her grief, just as I have for Karstark, but I cannot pretend either is justified. I can forgive Arya her savage ways because she is a 10 year old child. The other two are adults who should know better. Catelyn's judgement and child rearing is just about as awful as Cersei's. She mishandles Sansa (spoiling her) and Arya (trying to manage by bullying - the feminine equivalent of Randall Tarley), neglecting Rickon in her guilt fueled grief for Bran, Neglecting BOTH Bran and Rickon in her desire to be Riverland player in the war. She trusts LF when she should not and her handling of Tyrion is nothing short of stupid - even more stupid then Brandon Stark. While she showed some skill in arranging the Frey marriage it could be argued that she really did NOT know her son Robb well enough. Lady Smallwood has lost her only son, but remained kind to Arya, not a vengeful demon.
  15. Ygrain Aerys and Rhaegar were not on good terms so Aerys was in no mood to allow Rhaegar to have his way. Indeed he was considering locking Rhaegar up. Remember Aerys was by this time batshit crazy. The hiding from Aerys idea makes SOME sense but you still have the problem of the Kings guard. They MUST have been there at the order of the king - unless - and this is a very, very, very big unless, those three HAD broken their vows and switched to Rhaegar. In that case perhaps they sort of chose to die at the ToJ, since having broken their vows to Aerys they believed they did not deserve to live - especially with Rhaegar dead.