WhitewolfStark

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About WhitewolfStark

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  • Birthday February 15

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  1. Robb wouldn't exist considering Brandon would likely be alive and have married Catelyn. Completely different kid would likely exist. Ditto for Sansa. I'm sure that there'd be Stark kids, but they wouldn't be the kids we know from canon. Joffrey completely depends upon whether Jaime and Cersei are in the same location at the same time. And considering that Cersei tried to get Jaime as Kingsguard--that likely still happens, but without Robert becoming King, Cersei is likely married elsewhere, which means the chances of Joffrey existing are slim to none, I'd venture. In fact arguably with the idea that the Rebellion never happened, Daenerys shouldn't exist considering Aerys could only get excited enough after burning people to death--which he only started doing after the Rebellion started. People likely still alive, or perhaps are slightly different: Renly, Loras, & Margaery. These characters are based on unions that have already taken place prior to the rebellion. As such, I would expect them to have a reasonable chance at existing. However, putting those points aside, let's handwave things and say that some character exist due to butterfly nets being put into place to ensure their existence and keep the Chaos Theory from going too wild. So in terms of nature being restricted, check mark. That still doesn't account for situation and nurture differences. I'd argue that Robb likely is a completely different person without a Jon Snow to grow up alongside and with a different father to look up to, so much so that he might as well not be Robb. Ditto for Sansa and the rest of the Starks. With a different father, Joffrey would be raised differently. We're told that most of what Joffrey did when he was being cruel was an attempt to try and please either himself or his father. With a different father, this tendency might be noticed earlier and something done about it. Also him not being raised as Prince likely affects his personality greatly. Renly not being Lord of Storm's End from age 5 onwards completely shifts his personality and he likely never meets Loras outside of the tourney circuit. And with Robert not living, that means Stannis is Lord of Storm's End. Heck, Tywin may have married Stannis and Cersei (Tywin and Steffon were friends after all). And I don't see Joffrey as Stannis' son being like he was in canon. I could still see him trying to get his father's affection and attention, but Joffrey would likely be a lot more stoic and overly stern in personality. He won't burst into emotions when crossed, like Robert would (Joffrey being a pale imitation of Robert by nurture alone), but instead like Stannis he grinds his teeth, seethes, pouts, and grows sarcastic and cold. Arianne largely would be a little more pro-Iron Throne and less Dornish independence since her nephew and niece will sit the throne. Mace probably tries to wed Margaery to Aegon, and likely gets very upset at when Rhaegar says his children (and Daenerys) must wed one another like the Conqueror and his wives. Once Daenerys is born, Rhaegar I think stops worrying about where Aegon's second sisterwife will come from--though he'll likely complain to his mother that she should be named Visenya--but hey, you can't always get what you want Rhaegar, so you make do with what you have. I likely see the Faith getting in a tizzy over Rhaegar trying to have his son emulate Aegon and his sisterwives, so perhaps a big issue will be another Faith Uprising--though likely one that gets put down rather easily unless Rhaegar in marrying Targaryen to Targaryen manages to upset his lords too much. So much rides on how well Rhaegar would have been as King. What alliances would be needed, who is plotting against whom based on what Rhaegar does as King, etc. Those who think about him being King in the books as we have them usually think of him with rose colored glasses, when likely the truth would be more complicated.
  2. Agreed. In fact IIRC when the Clans attacked Catelyn's group they went something like: Stark who?
  3. It's the trap that every "successful" artist gets put into if they find financial success during their lifetime. It's a rather common theme--that the thing they get popular for is the thing that the crowd demands more and more of, restricting them to that one expression if the artist wants to continue to be successful. Long Day's Journey into Night is a semi-fictionalized account of Eugene O'Neill's family drama. The stand-in for Eugene O'Neill's father is a popular actor who made a particular character popular on the stage and found financial success repeating it to the point where he can no longer play any role outside of that character as an actor, and as a career. Further the dread of being "typecast" and a known "character actor" for a certain role is a further expounding of this phenomenon from an actor's POV. Shakespeare fell into that lull himself when he had to churn out comedy after comedy after comedy--turning them into rather formulaic affairs. I think that benefitted him overall in the end though, as it gave him the opportunity to learn the formulae so well that he was able to toy with it in later comedies to the benefit of the theater. So, while it is a trap a lot of artists can fall into, if they choose to, they can use that trap as a way to climb out of it if they so choose and fight for it.
  4. GRRM has had time traveling in his other works (predominately sci-fi) and it's explored far similar elements to make me think that Bran messing Walder in the first place makes sense. GRRM when he does time travel likes to have it be consciousnesses that do the time traveling, which he believes negates the whole time loop paradox idea. If your consciousness time travels back to the past, possesses and merges itself with random guy X, and then forces random guy X to murder your grandfather, random guy X murdered your grandfather--you never did, ergot the paradox is "solved" so to speak. I don't agree that the paradox is solved, but that's George's belief in Time Travel, not my own. So since it's Bran's consciousness doing the time travel, I can believe rather easily that Bran does things like that.
  5. It's a joke that's obviously supposed to complement the Braavosi portrayal of Ned as the loutish drunken idiot in the play scenes. What I took from the joke: Starks are so drunken and obsessive over their alcohol, that they can't bear to miss even a fly's worth of it. If anything the joke felt rather out of place, to be honest.
  6. Peter Dinklage is great at smart-ass humor, it's what most of his career was before Game of Thrones, and why I could understand why they cast him, as Dinklage has been playing that kind of character all his career. Best example I can think of off the top of my head is Penelope (2006) where he plays an investigative reporter with a grudge that's played for laughs with a "smart-ass" manner. I can then also understand why Dinklage jumped at the opportunity to move beyond that constraining character type in GOT when the opportunity in the show presented itself to portray Tyrion differently than in the books. It's hard however to undo that move once it's been played. It's hard to make Tyrion a smart-alec Imp once again after getting the High Septon to sanctify him, and clearly the writers don't want to, and don't know what to do with that kind of direction. It also doesn't help that Tyrion is clearly playing out Barristan's plot for him. What would likely make sense with Barristan making all these political mistakes, and being "tragically" too old and honorable to adapt to a strange and foreign culture or see the wolves among the sheep, simply makes Tyrion in his situation look like he's taken a bunch of stupid pills by comparison. Trying to shoe Tyrion into a Barristan shaped hole thus makes for a plot which neither serves Tyrion, nor the story as a whole IMO. The purpose Tyrion has in the books at this point, I'm convinced is to be the Robert of Artois for Dany's Edward III, I.E. he that gets her up off her Meerenese bench moving her butt to take Westeros and the Iron Throne, like Robert of Artois pushed Edward III to invade France (because Robert of Artois was down on his last card on getting his perceived rightful inheritance and pushing for a rival claimant to the throne who might then put him in place, was the only option left). Similarly to Robert of Artois, I don't expect Tyrion to live much longer after serving this final purpose, but to tragically die en route, and within sight of Westeros before the invasion and his desire for revenge against his relations who wronged him can be satiated.
  7. Not really how George works as a writer. Typically he has the message that one has to marry someone completely outside of one's own tribe to earn points in his greater writing universe. He has a lot of characters in his writing career who are frequently having sex with a woman or a man who looks exactly like them (only of the opposite gender), and it's typically a sign that the characters are stunted as individuals, narcissistic, and selfish. The critique being that they're so absorbed with themselves, that they like to have sex with a mirror image of themselves, essentially. It's a critique of all the old pairings of "boy/girl meets his/her exact match in the opposite gender and marries her or likes her upon first sight". You know like how Mickey Mouse and Minnie Mouse or Donald Duck and Daisy Duck are essentially the same characters, the only distinction between them being their genders. It's a trope that was very very popular in cartoons, but also our live action entertainment (I seem to recall every "chunky" or "overweight" couple find an equally "chunky" or "overweight" person to match off with (the second stepsister in the film Ever After, and her new beaux who's the Prince's Captain of the Guards fall into this category easily--the film going out of their way to hammer the point home by having the two dress up for the ball both in horse costumes and grazing over the banquet table each when meeting). GRRM in his writing frequently writes about how people need to move beyond finding such pairings, as "pairing off" in that manner only encourages the "us vs them" mentality he rails against if one only intermarries within one's own tribe, and one's own likeness. His argument being if we as a people only marry and interact with "people like us" how else are we ever going to understand "people not like us". And if we don't understand "people not like us", what's to stop us from seeing them with hostility, and eventually wage war against them? Nothing, is what GRRM typically answers, as societies that don't intermarry with outsiders are typically portrayed as backwards and dying cultures that are locked in a constant struggle against an "other" that they don't understand, and need to desperately learn this lesson if there's any hope for survival. That they don't learn the lesson typically means death, tragedy and destruction sooner or later in GRRM's universe. That the original plan was for a trilogy of books to have it start by a character (Ned) discovering and opposing an incestuous relationship between two individuals who are more typical of his greater ouvre (Cersei and Jaime), and have "corrupted the Kingdom" by planting their own children instead of the King's--only to originally intend to end said trilogy with a similar such relationship blossoming among his own "children" (one natural and one adopted) tells me everything that I need to know about the original idea of Jon and Arya--even if they are cousins, it's George's way of saying not much has changed over the course of the novels, beyond the people who sit on the throne. A rather depressing ending, truth be told. Personally, I'd prefer if Jon were to remain unattached at the end of the novels, or if he HAS to be with someone, put him with Val.
  8. poll

    4. It could have been worse. Show!Dorne is at this point not worth watching.
  9. I think that there'll be connections to be made to the Others with all the First Men houses and places. Suddenly little details like the Bronze Armor, the Isle of Faces, or potentially Dawn will have more meaning. Most importantly, of course is the Others and their connection with the Starks. I know some have theorized that Ned allowing for Catelyn to have a Sept in Winterfell might have broken some pact of some sort or a blood magic spell. In which case the return of the Others could be tied to the Starks finally becoming more involved in the politics of the realm and "Southernizing", due to Rickard's Southron Ambitions and Robert's Rebellion. We know the Others woke up before the events of the books--perhaps this is it. Or perhaps Ned broke some sort of pact when he buried his sister and brother in the Stark crypts. Ned did a lot of things that bucked traditional Stark-isms we're told, perhaps one of them is the reason why the Others woke up in the first place. There's still potential there to have things tied, but I'd also like to invite you to perhaps see the story in the light of history that I got from reading the Les Rois Maudits book series, that GRRM counts as an influence to ASOIAF. That entire book series is about how France went from being the Medieval Superpower of Europe, to ruining itself over constant infighting and game of thrones style political intrigue and murders, until at the end you arrive at the point where England is invading France at the beginning of what will become known as The Hundred Years War. Granted though, the English are much more present as characters in Les Rois Maudits from Book One through to Book Six. Book Five solely focuses on them, but other than that Books One and Six are where we see them mostly. The commentary from history that's being borrowed is obviously that the Kingdom shoots itself in the foot over meaningless and petty concerns while the enemies mount on its borders.
  10. When I was rereading AGOT it was nice actually because having Jon interact with Jorah's father, and Robb interacting with Jeor's sister helped tie together all the stories with the rest of the story going on down in King's Landing. The Darrys likewise help this with Robb interacting with young Lord Lyman, Ned having to deal with Raymund on two occasions, Dany remembering Ser Willem, etc. Having characters interact with family members of characters that other characters interacted with helped to promote a sense of interconnectedness and even a bit of containment throughout the first novel.
  11. But what is Dead, may never die...
  12. Fire and Ice By Robert Frost Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate To say that for destruction ice Is also great And would suffice. Martin also reflect[ed] on why his series is called A Song of Ice and Fire, saying, “People say I was influenced by Robert Frost’s poem, and of course I was, I mean… Fire is love, fire is passion, fire is sexual ardor and all of these things. Ice is betrayal, ice is revenge, ice is… you know, that kind of cold inhumanity and all that stuff is being played out in the books.” https://yabookreviewer.wordpress.com/2012/10/10/game-of-thrones-author-george-r-r-martin-reveals-winds-of-winter-details-and-more/ Given the above, I wonder sometimes at people thinking either one or the other must "prevail" against the other, considering that both Fire and Ice are threatening to destroy the world respectively. Given what I'm learning from Martin--I don't think we're supposed to be cheering on either Fire or Ice, but rather those caught in between the two.
  13. Then there's the fact that Dany would view Robb as the son of one of the Usurper's Dogs, the product of a union which ensured the overthrow, ruination, and death of the majority of her family. I highly doubt that even if Robb had somehow managed to remain alive he'd be an attractive option to Dany. Looking at the two scenarios likely to Option A] Say he'd accepted being King of the North alone, while telling the Riverlords to choose either Renly or Stannis, and then shuffled off and encamped in the North for the rest of the war while fending off attempts from whoever wins in the south to send armies North in an attempt to overthrow his rule Option B] Or if Robb had gotten word of Jeor Mormont nearly being assassinated and the news of the Wildling threat reaching south of the Wall sooner, Robb had instead said "I don't care who gets the Iron Throne, I'm just going to go do my duty as Warden of the North to ensure the realm isn't overrun with Wildlings, so whoever wins--bully for you," and had said that attempting a go at independence so soon to Winter was madness if the South cut them off from trade and Winter lasted long--and wasn't being pressured to go along with his bannermen's schemes like a teenager who didn't know his own mind (which he was) Option C] Or if Robb somehow manages to beat the Lannisters into a draw (the key to that would be the death of Tywin and also either Stannis or Renly taking King's Landing but not holding it for long) and coming to an armistice agreement with someone like Kevan Lannister who re-installs Tommen after taking King's Landing back from either Renly or Stannis (Cersei & Joffrey died during a siege of King's Landing, while Sansa disappears with a not-a-knight); and somehow all of Lord Walder's daughters and granddaughters happen to die so Robb is free from his obligation (let's say that the Twins get put under siege or a sudden outbreak of pox runs rampant in the Riverlands towards the end of the war), or Robb fulfills his obligation and say marries Roslin, who promptly dies in childbirth either with the child or with only giving him a daughter. In any of the three above scenarios that keep Robb alive and in relative power, I don't see Dany seeing Robb as a good option. In two he's a rival king she has to put down (or if he takes a cue from his ancestor--he kneels and she tersely accepts his kneeling), it's really only in the third--when Robb has proven to be the only Lord doing his duty to fight the others--and say Dany comes to see that fight as being more important than the quarrels over who wins the Iron Throne in the south, that Dany might--in the aftermath of the war--come to respect him in the fight along side of him against the Others, and might consider it . But that option would require Robb to not go for Kingship, but instead focus on his duty as Warden of the North IMO.
  14. I think Jeyne would have done well in the North. After all she grew up in a castle that's more of a ruin than well maintained from what we're told, and they've lost the best parts of their income centuries ago (so she's grown up on a constrained budget and little luxury up until this point). It sounds like Jeyne would've been used to shifting for herself more frequently and doing things that a young lady of the house probably wouldn't normally do. Those types of people usually would adapt well to a "harsher" condition change like her living in the North would have been.
  15. I agree that Bran and BR can and do astrally project themselves, which is how I interpret that one image. I was only pointing out the differences between that astral projection and the other picture. After all if Bran can astral project himself so he can be whole or walk again and is standing around without any furs or such--why the heck would he need the furs in the other picture unless he was really there? My line of reasoning: In a dream or a memory--there is no heat or cold so there wouldn't be any need for clothes to counter either.