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Hippocras

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  1. Illyrio is no doubt connected to the Blackfyre/Band of Nine somehow but I think the strongest case for descendant of Maegor is found in Darkstar. He even looks like Maegor (streak in hair, general Targ looks). And his supposed dangerousness is very likely because of identity politics, not simply his skill with a sword.
  2. JonCon was not hiding his identity for a portion of his time in Essos. He was openly a member of the Golden Company. His disguise was only ever to serve Aegon, and was never one he took seriously inside his head. Everything he has done and will do stems from his guilt over Rhaegar's death and his own failure at Stony Sept that lead to it, and to his exile. So I don't find it all that much of a puzzle. JonCon is The Griffin Reborn when he reclaims his castle and is no longer an exile. Thought: I wonder if we are meant to take anything from the name Stony Sept in relation to JonCon's greyscale.
  3. @Castellan I am loosely speculating now on this temporary identity theme combined with word play and the methods of the Faceless Men (Arya being the character to make the most use of such names). In the Dragon Tamer, Quentyn obviously failed to tame a dragon. But a tiny moment that slides past without notice is that Viserion was initially interested in Pretty Meris. Maybe she is the actual dragon tamer the chapter introduces. We already know I think anyway that Viserion's destiny is different from that of Rhaegal. Pretty Meris being something like Hugh Hammer would be an interesting way to bring a dragon to a different side in the final conflicts. Connecting this previous discussion for reference:
  4. I like this idea about Moqorro. Sometimes GRRM is very charming in his determination to just have fun. Is The Iron suitor the chapter where we learn about Euron's Valyrian steel armour? It might be a word play. EDIT: I checked and it does not seem to be. BUT, it is Euron that has the VS armour, and Vic has regular armour. So still could be some kind of word play on the similarity between "suit" and "suitor". Getting tinfoily but maybe Vic is destined to become a "suit" himself in the way the FM use other bodies... In Vic's previous chapter, the Reaver, Vic hatches his plot to take Dany for himself. He does not want to be "given" the Seastone chair (not the true Ironborn way) for doing as Euron asks. So there is a bit of word play there anyway.
  5. Can you sumarize a bit without sending us all there? I am time limited.
  6. I am intrigued by the theory that it actually refers to The Second Sons - sellsword company, and The Neck - region of Westeros. Of course, for that to be true The Neck would need to somehow be under Cersei's control, which.... I mean.... how?
  7. For the record I also do not buy any theory where Dany is not a Targaryen, and have never argued for that. But Aerys was a philanderer and later a rapist. Him having children not born of Rhaella is in fact more likely than not, as much as people seem to want to discredit the possibility. It therefore follows that he (or Rhaegar) may have been the one to "dishonour" Ashara. It is also conceivable that Ashara was his daughter since her year of birth very much coincides with when the Dornish Princess, along with her Dornish ladies (ie. lady Dayne) was serving as a lady in waiting in KL, during a period when Aerys was known to have had several mistresses (most of whom happened to be Rhaella's ladies in waiting I would add). Allyria's age is unknown, and there is nothing particularly suspicious about it as the age gap more or less exactly matches the gap between Rhaegar and Dany. She has not even appeared in the story so I don't see why we would care either way if she is another case of hidden identity. What is pointless is secret identities for irrelevant characters IMO. Ashara may well have had reason to take her child to Dragonstone, so I disagree it is a non-starter: Ashara was very likely part of a small cluster of nobles who believed as Rhaegar did that 3 Targaryen babies were an absolute necessity for the future of humanity, and that one of them was the PtwP. She had learned from Ned that Aegon and Rhaenys were dead. It is not clear if she knew about Jon. Bringing her Targ-fathered child to Dragonstone to join up with what was left of the Kingsguard and what was left of the Targaryen family may very well have been her way of trying to save the world. And my point is that, whether you like it or not, it is in fact very much set up, by multiple paths in the text. So if the theory turns out to be true people should not be surprised. Tyrion's story is only reduced by a different paternity if you believe that adopted fathers, the ones who actually raise the child, are somehow "less" than the ones who provided the sperm. I think that is irritating BS. Tywin WAS Tyrion's father, mostly for the worse, whether he provided the sperm or not, and the argument that it changes anything about Tyrion and Tywin's story diminishes the investigation of nurture versus biology that the Jon/Tyrion counterpoint could provide. But ultimately I did NOT start this thread to debate the details of the secrets and lies. I wanted to discuss the possibility that GRRM is deliberately stretching them beyond the absurd to make an entirely different point about truth.
  8. It is one of the main consequences of thinking through Lemongate. Since we have no idea when exactly Ashara's daughter was born or conceived (dishonoured and impregnated do not mean the same thing) it remains a hypothesis to be tested that Dany is Ashara's daughter, brought to Dragonstone. It would explain hints associating Dany with Dorne and also why Dany looks like Ashara. One of the main things driving Dany as a character is her entitlement. Finding out her backstory is different would force her to choose between fighting on and conquering anyway, or submitting, which she is too much of a dragon to do IMO. So it would conceivably have some narrative purpose. I disagree on Tyrion. I don't think it undermines anything but instead explains a great deal. I am not certain it is true but do not mind either way. Regardless of who provided the sperm, Tyrion is a Lannister via his mother, and was raised by Tywin, who was the only father he ever knew. I think Tyrion being part Targ has in fact been set up since the very beginning with burnt bacon and dragon dreams. His name might hint at royalty, being remarkably close to the word Tyrian - the royal purple. Finally, Tywin chose to name him after a historic Lannister King famous for torture - one who sounds quite a bit like Aerys. Tyrion II Lannister - A Wiki of Ice and Fire (westeros.org) In other words, when it comes to Tyrion it is very hard to discount all of the hints, even for those who may want to.
  9. I have often seen people react very strongly against any suggestion of a secret identity for main characters beyond Jon. Valid and well argued reasons exist for thinking that Dany, Tyrion, Pod and more might be more (or less) than they believe themselves to be. However in most cases the argument against centres around the belief that we as readers can only handle so many lies, secrets and major reveals. It is a dilemma that has me wondering if GRRM is actually up to something: Maybe he is stretching the lies and secrets beyond our breaking point as readers deliberately, in order to tie the story together in the end with a finale that centres on truth: what it is; what matters and what does not; how an entire society can be built on such lies and therefore have the most crumbly of foundations imaginable. In other words, the lies and secrets are the point.
  10. No votes for Jaehaerys here?
  11. If you ask me, the reason why they disagree on who were the original kings and who the usurpers may have to do with my hunch that the Blackwoods follow somewhat matrilineal practices (and the Brackens don’t). It is more a hypothesis than a theory mind you, but is rooted in deep tracking of clues in lineages, and small moments such as Lord Blackwood asking for his son to be taken as hostage and not his daughter. Even in an overarching Westerosi patriarchy, the system would be maintained by tracking female descendants who married into other families and re-incorporating their line into the Blackwood (extended) family after one or two generations. The reason they would stick to this system IMO has to do with the greensight; it was in their family and to keep it there they needed the female line. Imagine there was an ancient pre-historic ruler who died, leaving behind an older daughter, married perhaps into a Northern family (Blackwood origins), and a younger son, much like the Dance. For the Blackwoods, by their system, the daughter was heir. For the Brackens, by their system, the son was heir. Both considered the other the usurper, legitimately.
  12. Whatever the origins of the dispute, it seems clear IMO that the Blackwoods have played the game more successfully. I would love to maintain neutrality, but a review of the history makes it hard. If Brackens were initially first men, then when the Andals came they betrayed their gods. Then they helped bring in House Hoare. They supported the zealots of the faith millitant. Then they fought for Maegor. One led a selfish mutiny at the Wall. Later the supported the darkest phases and actions of the greens. They have a consistent pattern of humourlessness, and fighting for causes that do not favour women, or the general good of their region really. Not the easiest family to love.
  13. House Swann is also very powerful. But it is one of the Houses with a "two-faced" symbol, which is another sigil set I have been meaning to start a thread for discussing. Just connected to House Frey the "two-faced" sigil Houses are: Swann Farring Paege And of course we know that Walder himself has earned quite a reputation for being two-faced. The fact that the Twins is actually two castles connected by a bridge (and separated by a river) is perhaps a reference to this.
  14. I really think we can't look at every instance of ANY poison being used and see it as some sort of pattern. If there is a set of 3, it is a set of 3 uses of the strangler at public feasts. Tywin might have been poisoned. Or not. But if he was it was not with The Strangler. My personal take on Tywin's stink is that it was meant to be symbolic. A bit of a playful way for GRRM to state that this is a man who left a stinking and foul legacy. Some saw his ruthlessness as necessary evil, but really it was all built on a big load of shit and lies and tyranny.
  15. Oberyn’s use of poison was a different kind, so the third step might actually be still to come. I would not be against a mass strangler murder (in the story, not real life, where i am always against mass murder) in one particular House… In terms of the story however, it might make most sense for Cersei to be the next one to use the Strangler. She has a history of almost using poison when things get dire, and she has a way of taking things used against her and learning from them. So maybe we should fear for the Tyrells or the Faith Millitant rather than the Freys.
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