Hodor the Articulate

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  1. It's up to Tywin, Arryn and Tully to work something out. Would the latter two be ok with Tywin ascending the throne? I suppose it could be done given enough concessions are handed out.
  2. The adaptation does suffer without her internal thoughts, especially because she's such an introverted and isolated character. I've noticed one of the biggest differences is, in the books, Dany projects a much tougher version of herself to others because she needs to appear confident as a leader and commander, whereas the show plays it straight. One reason for this is the writing/directing, but the actress' lack of range is also to blame. The thing I can't quite figure out is if they meant to make her seem so petulent or not. The show often has Dany demand things like a brat, where book!Dany would understand what a waste of time that is when she's not in a position of power.
  3. No way Cersei lets Tyrion live to claim the Rock.
  4. You're applying generalities to Dany's situation, without consideration of the character's mindset or the context. For Dany, Drogo isn't a stranger, he's her husband, who she is expected to please, and bed that night. She would consider arousal a good thing, not something shameful. Though, yes, I do think Dany poking his finger up her snatch is a step too far. I don't know wtf GRRM was thinking when he wrote that. Where GRRM stuffs up is not showing the rest of the scene, which was undoubtedly unpleasant, and in doing this, he unfortunately frames the wedding night as romantic. As I mentioned before, I think this was intentional - the scene wasn't so much for Dany's character as it was to show that Drogo had a softer side. And that is where I take issue.
  5. Actually, sometimes bodies do respond as if aroused to unwanted sexual advances. And I have little trouble believing that Dany allowed her wedding night to continue, or that she wasn't a quivering mess. She has been groomed by Viserys to be subservient and allow abuse, after all. The problem, I think, is framing. The wedding night is definitely romanticised, and seems to have been written to convey that Drogo is a sensitive savage, which isn't the right approach to take when it's sex between 13 yr old and a 30 yr old. It's all over the place though, because he sometimes also comments on how twisted it all is, like when he brings up that Dany had just turned 14, right after she found out she was pregnant.
  6. Well, you could look to Tyrion's marriage to Tysha, which, as mentioned above, was annulled on those grounds. This is why I have trouble believing any theories where Rhaegar secretly marries Lyanna. I suppose you could count the KG as witnesses, but seeing as they're all dead now, they may as well not been there in the first place. And what Septon is going to get R either an annulment or a polygamous marriage? And so if no one in Westeros will believe this second marriage, what's the point of this plot?
  7. Exactly. There's absolutely zero need to add a secondary motive. It adds nothing to the story, the characters...nothing. It isn't even presented as a mystery. Besides, it's been shown several times that all these master players - Varys, Illyrio, LF, etc - often don't have everything in their control. A lot of their plans go awry. It's their ability to adapt to the situation that makes them so successful, not their ability to produce perfect plans that has everybody doing exactly what they want them to do. "his loyalties to Robert need to be loud"... so he goes against Robert's orders to tell people about the offer lordship and lands in exchange for assassinating the Targ princess? Yeah, still not making sense. But sneaking off is exactly what he did! You, yourself, pointed out how he went off alone to find the letterbearer, convincing Dany not to come with him. See, trying to justify Jorah knowing about the wineseller is getting more and complicated, and it's all speculation, no textual evidence. We're talking about ciphers now, which would be mighty suspicious if anybody else ever read the letters, which were supposed to be from Illyrio - "Hey Jorah, why is Illyrio writing to you in code?" But it is suspicious in the context of people trying to assassinate her. He offers samples of wines to everybody in the market, but goes to get a specific cask of a different wine for her. The text makes a point of having him 'rummage about in the back of his stall' for it. Poison is a common tool for assassination in this world. So if I were Jorah, I'd wonder, too. Also, the way Jorah behaves backs up him being suspicious but not actually knowing - "Ser Jorah lifted a cup and sniffed at the wine, frowning." Why bother putting on a show when he could have just gone straight to making the wineseller take a drink? I wouldn't say it was far more length. A dude jumps out in front of them suddenly to hand over a box, which Dany takes "reflexively". She says a four word sentence and then opens it. It all happens pretty quick, whereas the wineseller took his sweet time exchanging quite a few lines of dialogue and finding the cask of wine. Also, as I mentioned previously, Robert was dead so they needn't worry about looking for assassins in every person, Jorah's focus was on Whitebeard and Belwas, and poison through food is a common, murder via a pretty box...not so much. Same with Qarth - I can't imagine death by crown, or death by ointment or news, is all that common either. And the nobles of Qarth have much less reason to risk death for a lordship in Westeros than some petty merchant. Even if they did, Qartheen are known for their poisoned wine, which Dany was offered none of. All the same, he's on full alert, trying to stay by Dany's side when she orders him to go to the docks, warning her about Pyat and Xaro and Quathe. Once more, the question of why Jorah never tells Dany about the wineseller remains unanswered.
  8. That's why I said D&D likely didn't think about the full implications of this new reveal. That, or they've now decided Rhaegar would be more fun as a giant douche. I do wonder if the show did this to make up for not having Aegon. Perhaps there's some plot that requires another legitimate Targaryen, say Dance of the Dragons 2.0, that has to happen for another event later down the road. Or it could just be a cheap way to create tension between Dany and Jon.
  9. In the show, yes. It's one thing to set aside your wife from a political marriage, but to have your kids be removed from the line of inheritance, and use the alliance granted to you by your original marriage, to fight for you? That's downright coldhearted. The showrunners are going have a hard time making me believe R+L was a love match. Their Rhaegar doesn't seem capable of that kind of emotional attachment to another human being. The most frustrating thing about this is, I don't think D&D meant for us to see this action as anything bad. I doubt they even considered the implications of having Rhaegar do this massively shitting thing, or if it was even plausible. They just wanted Jon be legitimized for some reason and this was the quickest way to get there (that they could think of). Why oh why did I start watching this show again???
  10. What is the point of convincing the King to issue an order, then not following it? It unnecessarily puts Varys at risk of being caught. If he wanted to go with the most risk averse path, he would have tried to convince Robert to do exactly what he was going to do. Yes he does have a secret means of communication, it's called "sneaking off to exchange intel with one of Varys' spies under the guise of checking for mail from Illyrio". I can't think how to the warning about a wineseller is supposed to be coded. Anything about wine will be mighty suspicious given what just went down. I've already covered how the wineseller was acting very suspicious in my last post, and how it's entirely plausible that Jorah came back when he did in several previous posts, also why GRRM did that in the first place. I don't much feel like repeating myself. And they learned of Robert's death in the second Dany chapter in ACOK. There was no need to be hyper-paranoid about normal people trying to kill her after that, though Jorah was still apt at picking up suspicious behaviour. Note how it was he who first noticed Whitebeard and Belwas following her, and it was them he focused on throughout the market. Again, the biggest question is why Jorah never tells Dany that Varys planted the wineseller, if that was the truth. He eventually admits that he was sending and receiving intel to and from Varys. Why not tell her that Varys informed him of the poisoned wine, instead of telling her that Varys warned him of several attempts?
  11. How about if Mel does it for Jon or whoever she thinks is Azhor Ahai next, then? I was thinking less that she creates an actual living dragon, but rather that she animates a stone one. I dunno, I was just throwing some ideas out. That said, I am pretty certain it's a literal stone beast we're dealing with. I haven't found any theories of it being metaphorical convincing enough. They all do too much tick-boxing.
  12. I never considered this, but it makes sense. Everyone in the Targ family should have known about the prophecy, after all, as well as the Prince being in R and A's line. It's likely somebody, probably Aemon, maybe everyone, thought it was Rhaegar. I think many people see his discovery of the ancient scrolls as the reason he started to believe he was the PTWP, but that's not what it actually tells us. All we know was that the scrolls convinced him to be a warrior. Likely, he was reading the lightbringer prophecy.
  13. I can't help but think of Mel because of 'shadow fire', and also Summerhall for the 'smoking tower'. If I connect these two ideas, maybe Mel has crack at waking the stone dragon for Stannis with fire magic, maybe in Dragonstone, which I believe has literal stone dragons along the castle walls. So yeah...that's my crackpot contribution to this thread. Is it plausible?
  14. This is why I don't judge competency based on technical minutiae. You can argue back and forth all day on what constitutes good military strategy and whatnot, but the only thing that provides is evidence of the author's military proficiency. The characters are limited to what GRRM can imagine. The only thing that matters here is what he intended, and I think in Robb's case, it's that he's a great general.
  15. I assume Jorah kept pushing Dany to Asshai because it was really far away from Westeros, and thus, far less dangerous for her. He hasn't shown himself to be particularly interested in magic. Besides, people wouldn't be calling Dany's dragons the first in hundreds of years if there was a belief that they never died out in Asshai. I don't think we can rely on Asshai magic as proof either, because magic also existed in Essos and even in Westeros (not just beyond the wall - pyromancers in KL were still producing wildfire) before the dragons came back, it was just in a much weaker state compared to now.