Hodor the Articulate

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  1. The Main Conflict in the Story

    Didn't Ran pooh-pooh the Jojenpaste theory? Also no.5: there's nothing icy about Lyanna. That girl's all fire.
  2. Just Rhaegar and Lyanna things

    In this very post, you say "When he was a child all he did was read to the point that jests were made about his habits and people said that Baelor the blessed was reborn", which contradicts the notion that his life revolved around the prophecy. Take also his plans to dethrone his father - why would he even care about something as "trivial" as that, when there's three heads to be made and prophesied evil to be fought? (The common argument is that he wanted to unite the realm, to gather as strong a force as possible, but that makes no sense, given the Lyanna stuff). Then there's his harp - how many times has he been mentioned, playing emo songs on his harp? I'd say there's more evidence that he's harp obsessed than prophecy obsessed. Also, I never said Rhaegar didn't think the prophecy was important, just that he didn't appear to have an unhealthy fixation on it. In fact, I think Rhaegar considering the prophecy a big deal, marks his behaviour (becoming a warrior, dissecting it with Aemon) as perfectly rational. I mean, if you lived in a world with magic and prophecies, and you found a prophecy predicting the rise of some evil force that your close relative (possibly you) will fight off, wouldn't you mull over it a lot? As to why he risked political turmoil by running off with Lyanna, the text has already answered that - he was in love, and love doesn't give a fig about how straight-thinking you usually are.
  3. Harry & Sansa (Littlefinger is delusional)

    LF desires the things that were denied to him in his youth: power, wealth, and The Girl. In Sansa, he's found a stand-in for Catelyn, so I wonder if Harry the Heir is his Brandon Stark? If that's the case, I can't imagine him planning for a scenario in which The Jock gets The Girl again, even if it's temporary. He'd want Harry/Brandon to lose Sansa/Catelyn to him this time around, and he'd want first crack at that flower. Also, would he really risk giving Sansa all that power? He must know that the more power Sansa has, independent of him, the more risk of her straying, even with all her grooming.
  4. Tyrion's killing of Tywin was an over reaction?

    Even one rape is horrendous, even by Westerosi standards, so it really doesn't matter whether Tyrion is misremembering or not. Um...scold him for being a lovesick fool, like any normal parent? Had Tywin committed a similar act before, you might have a point, but since he hadn't there was no way anyone could predict Tywin would it THAT far. Yeah, you're just trolling now. Questioning Tysha's "innocence" is pretty much implying her punishment was justified. Taking Tywin's pov of Johanna's death as valid is implying his abuse of Tyrion was justified.
  5. Tyrion's killing of Tywin was an over reaction?

    Most lords? Randyl Tarly maybe, but I never got the impression that most lords would have killed a lowborn for marrying their son. Also, Tyrion was, what, 13/14 when he married Tysha? How was anyone, let alone a teenager, supposed to predict Tywin would order her to be raped by 100 men + Tyrion? That's an excessively cruel act for such a minor offence. Not killing Tyrion is a really low bar. A child should not have to be "thankful" their father kept them alive and well-fed. Nor should he have to take emotional and sexual abuse in exchange for the "privilege" of having access to the same family resources their siblings have. ETA: what does it matter if Tysha married Tyrion for his money? That's no justification for being raped repeat repeatedly. That's sick, and an exaggeration to say that's the norm in Westeros.
  6. Evil Daenerys?

    Yes! Willas has peaked my curiosity too. I mean, GRRM could kill him off in the upcoming war(s), but that seems like such a waste. It's hard to predict which way the Tyrells will go because we don't know when Dany will finally drag her ass to Westeros. It would be a lot harder to get them (or anyone) if Aegon has already won the throne by the time she arrives.
  7. Evil Daenerys?

    I think that's where the plot is heading. After Tyrion's pep talk, YG is in the mindset that he could gain power without Dany's help. A few easy victories later, he'll decide he won't even need Dany to secure his place on the throne, just an alliance from Dorne. Where my opinions diverge is in the events that follow. I think Aegon will be able to gather a lot of support, but without a marriage to Dany, people will continue to doubt his legitimacy. We've already seen a hint of this in the the ADWD epilogue. He'll likely not have unanimous support, and Dany won't be friendless. I won't make predictions on who'll be on whose side, though. There's too many unknowns - the Tyrells, for example.
  8. why does everyone blame Renly for Stannis's mistake

    Yeah, I don't think there's anything to say Stannis enjoys punishing people. The enacting laws part is were he gets his jollies from. It's probably what he thought of to conceive Shireen. I know Davos' punishment was for his history of smuggling, but it was still a shitty thing to do. Anyone else would have given him a full pardon, if not out of mercy, then to encourage other criminals to reform.
  9. Rhaegar wasn't polygamous, he was dumping Elia for Lyanna

    I'm pretty sure Ned and Benjen are also closely related to Lyanna and Brandon. Like, exactly as much related as L and B to each other. I'm not going speculate they were latent skinchangers because of that. If I did, I'd have to consider every other member of the Stark family, and everyone else with Stark blood, like the Karstarks, as possibly being skinchangers. If no one was aware of of L and B's abilities, then what's the point of even including such a detail in the story? You could make an argument for L being Jon's real mother, I suppose, but then what's the literary significance of B also being a skinchanger? It holds no value wrt plot, themes or characterisation. I don't mind the KotLT theory so much. I have my doubts about it (the deep voice is rather suspect) but at least there's more to back it up than a couple of words. The way people try to change tomboy-ish female characters into cliche "badass chicks" who are, like, sooo different from other girls, is pretty annoying, though. To bring it back to the topic of this thread (sort of), I suspect the reason some people insist that L and R weren't in love, is because they can't fathom the notion that Lyanna might have some girly traits. Some, I think, also hate the idea that the series might have some feminine storylines (Rhaegar can't just be a fool in love - he must be doing all this wacky shit for political reasons/to save the world!)
  10. Rhaegar was WAY better than Robert

    I never said Robert was as bad as Aegon IV, nor that they were a 1:1 comparison, but there are enough similarities in personality between the two to see that, that sort of person is fit to be King.
  11. why does everyone blame Renly for Stannis's mistake

    In fairness, ftheking was not criticising the gelding per se, but that the punishment was not done out of empathy for the victims of rape. While I don't agree that Stannis has a hard-on for punishment, I think ftk has a point wrt Stannis' brand of justice. True justice must be tempered with compassion. That's something Ned gets, but Stannis doesn't. Also, chopping of a dude's fingers for smuggling, which was done in order to save your life, is pretty nuts. Davos was considered to be reformed at that point. There was no need to punish him for a crime he wasn't going to commit again.
  12. Rhaegar wasn't polygamous, he was dumping Elia for Lyanna

    The context for whole discussion is during/after the rebellion, so it's not much different to the Lysa/Hoster situation. At that time, Robert needed the support of a Great House. Had Lyanna lived, his choices would have been her or Cersei. I mean, he could have chosen Cersei, but backing out of his original betrothal would be a huge insult to House Stark and his buddy, Ned. Neither Arryn or Tywin would have been so oblivious as to suggest such a thing. Also, Arryn wasn't taken advantage of. He was looking for a wife with proven fertility. It was a mutually beneficial arrangement. Yeah, and those without eligible daughters would propose a marriage to Lyanna. I'm not being obtuse, I'm pointing out the gaping holes in your theory, and challenging the it's underlying assumptions. Like the Stark family having warging skills - the only people who have shown such ability are Ned's kids. I'm still waiting for an explanation as to why Ned and Benjen haven't said anything about two of their siblings having magical animal controlling powers. You'd think that'd be a big deal.
  13. Rhaegar was WAY better than Robert

    Well, it was coarse. Must have gave Cersei some heavy chafing.
  14. Rhaegar was WAY better than Robert

    Did Rhaegar even have body hair? I bet he plucked them out with his harp strings, or possibly with unicorn hairs. There was a superficial change in Robert in his later years, but I'm not seeing any difference in personality. Fat, lazy drunk is just natural progression for a man fond of engaging in debauchery in his youth. We only have to look at Robert's parallel, Aegon the Unworthy, to see that a man of his disposition did not make for a good King. That he was well loved does not change that. Remember, Aerys was also loved by the small-folk and kept the coffers full, but we know that is only because he had a capable hand, same as Robert. Also, while not everything that happened after his death was Robert's fault, his negligence in kingly duties did contribute to much of the mess. Well, Rhaegar had other qualities as well, obviously. He was more prepared to lead than Sam, far more sociable than Stannis, and from what I can tell, more mellow than Aegon. The level of devotion people show him, even after his death, is proof that he had that something extra. Dany isn't necessarily bookish (she's not had proper education so we can't say either way, though she enjoys the books Jorah gave her), but she is more than dutiful, and has been compared favorably to Rhaegar. I agree that Robert's grievance with Rhaegar is legitimate. Blaming Rhaegar for his parent's deaths would be unfair, but he's very much entitled to hate the man for everything he's done involving Lyanna. It's not fair to expect Rhaegar to turn on his own father. First of all, it would be suicide - you'd be volunteering to be prisoner, with a good chance of being killed by Robert. Then there's his family to think about - not just Aerys, but Elia, his children, his mother, and his siblings. He'd be risking all their deaths. At best, he's dooming them to a life in exile. He has a duty to his family, his house, his vassals, and his liege. Finally, what good would come of Robert usurping the crown? Rhaegar had no guarantees that the rebels winning would make Westeros a better place, whereas he already had ideas about dealing with Aerys and securing the realm. All in all, from Rhaegar's POV, joining the rebels for ideological reasons was the more selfish direction to take. I'm not saying Robert is a monster. He's very human and very likeable, with qualities, both good and bad. But I'm not going to woobify him or blame his more disgusting behaviours on Cersei or alcohol, or whatever. There's not even anything to say he was an alcoholic. All his drinking was done while having a good time, not to drown his sorrows. He was simply a guy who always liked to party, and never regretted it.
  15. Rhaegar wasn't polygamous, he was dumping Elia for Lyanna

    Again, Lysa Tully and Jon Arryn says otherwise. Those who marry widows say otherwise. House Stark has thousands of years of noble blood and they hold power over a vast area of land. The South may think northerners are uncultured, but it's not true that they don't hold prestige among southern house, or Hoster Tully wouldn't have married his eldest into House Stark. House Stark had only one daughter at that time. Anyone wanting connections to the North would have to marry Lyanna. Oh, so now the conditions are being skilled AND fond of horseriding, but don't spend their lives on horseback. I suppose that means Willas is out since he spends too much time with his animals? And Sansa is clearly not a skinchanger because she hates riding. Oh, and Dany obviously becomes a skinchager as she comes to love riding her horse - "the horse seemed to know her moods, as if they shared a single mind". But, of course, I forgot, she's a dragonrider, which is totally the same as being a skinchanger, right? Let me put this theory to Jon fans - I'm sure they'll be delighted to hear that Dany can also warg Ghost! Jon can r.i.p now.