devilish

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  1. Bastards has a nasty reputation following what happened during the Blackfyre rebellion. Prior to that bastards were treated with more respect. The best HOTK in Westeros history was a bastard
  2. A- The Reach had never had issues about food. Its Westeros bread basket. There's no difference in terms of supply lines between besieging the Stormlands and participating in the battle of the trident. Actually a battle takes less time then a siege which makes it easier in terms of logistics and feeding an army. Mace didn't send the bulk of his army (+ the Great Randyll Tarly) to the trident because he didn't want to. B- Renly had Mace. He's close to Randyll. Mace mother is a Redywne and his wife a Hightower which gives him a very good grip on power over the Reach. The Tyrell-Baratheon's strategy was smart. Let the wolf and the lion skin each other alive and then move in to collect the spoils. That ensured sure victory. I mean who would have thought that Stannis would be well versed in black magic? He's a warrior and a bore not frigging Gandalf. C- There are many ways how to avoid war in a feudal system. Some might remain neutral and hope that the king didn't notice, others might decide to send as little support as possible while others might spend most of the war guarding a strategic fortress without ever get their hands dirty. The Tyrells couldn't afford the former two decisions as they were rival families who shared an equal claim to the Reach who would pounce to garner the king's favour. Therefore they chose the latter. Mace rarely commit troops to actual war unless he gets something tangible + he's ensured sure victory D- Storm's end had military value but the war was being fought elsewhere. As said, unlike the young wolf whose army was mainly made up of Northerners, Robert relied mostly on 'foreigners' (people from the Riverlands, the Vale and the North). These people couldn't give a toss if Storm's end was burnt down and by the looks of it (ie not praising Stannis and sending Ned to KL first instead to Storm's end) so did Robert E- Tarly hold great respect around peers. If some knight from the Stormland's can garner so much respect then imagine what the lead general of the loyalists biggest army would have. After all, Randyll was the only man to inflict a defeat on Robert F- I never said that its irrelevant. Its surely important for Robert's succession to the crown. Would you want a king that left his house burn to the ground? I wouldnt'. What I said is that it wasn't that important in the course of battle. Most of Robert's men came from the Vale, the Riverlands and the North. Their families were sheltered in Winterfell, the Dreadfort, Riverrun or the Rune Stone not in the Stormlands. G- Not really. If Rhaegar's army was boosted by another 40k + a great general to guide them then it makes sense to say that it would have probably won
  3. a- We can make an educated guess by having a look to what Mace fielded during the WO5K b- I never said that he disobeyed orders. The crown demanded Mace to call the banners and attack the enemy and that what he did. Whether that was the most effective way to do things, well, we, all know the answer to that c- I never said otherwise. It was the Baratheon ancestral home after all. However don't you think that that army is better off fighting at the Trident instead? Don't you think that Randyll knew that? d- There's a big difference between Robb's rebellion and Robert's rebellion. In the former war, the leader committed most of the troops. In the latter, Robert relied heavily on troops from the Vale, the Riverlands and the North as half of his bannermen rebelled against him. The former are more likely to be affected if their own home is invaded than the latter. An Umber, a Blackwood or a Royce wouldn't give a toss if Storm's end is sacked and Stannis is put to the sword. They probably don't know that Stannis even exist. e- Its based on common sense. Someone with a big army at his back and with a love for glory would make sure that he's part of the biggest battle (and possible victory) fought in his lifetime.
  4. I love the Tyrells. I think the Reach is the biggest powerhouse in Westeros and I see the Tyrells as smarter then the Lannisters in many ways. However at that stage of the war it was pretty evident that Mace's heart was not in the war. Mace sat out the battle of the trident and kept most of his troops out of it to besiege what? An empty fortress? That's not what a loyal servant to the crown would do, especially with a 40k-50k horde at his back Also I am aware of the Reach's weaknesses. They are basically the Riverlands on steroids ie they have more troops but they have similar weaknesses (ie their source of wealth can easily be burned, they share a lot of borders etc). Lord Mace would be mad to confront Robert's wounded but battlehardened army on the Reach's fertile soil especially since they would also have to contend with the Greyjoys and a panicky Westerlands army who were eager to burn KL up to hide any trace of a possible deal with the Targs. Crops and war don't mix very well + the king hardly made it worth its while didn't he? He preferred a relatively unknown as HOTK to someone who can lead a 50k army Regarding the war of 5 kings, Stannis was worthless in the great scheme of things. His army was small and most houses had either stayed neutral or bent the knee to either Robb, Joffrey or Renly. Renly stayed in the Stormlands because he wanted the wolf and the lion to skin each other alive. Once one kill the other the Tyrell-Baratheon force could wipe the weakened victor out. Minimum effort to maximum benefit. That is the Tyrell way.
  5. its a mistake.
  6. I have to disagree. Robert left Storm's end with a skeleton army. Mace could have easily besieged it without the need of committing so many troops to that cause. So why didn't Mace took most of his army to the Trident? Is he stupid? Mace isn't the very bright but we know two things about the man A- He loves his share of glory and pomp. We've seen him how eager he was to whore his own daughter just to see her a queen B- He rates Randyll Tarly highly. Randyll is one of the best generals in Westeros and the only man who was able to beat Robert in battle. A man of such experience was needed at the trident as much as most of the Tyrell 60k army. Surely, Randyll would have loved to join the war too and must have told Mace that Storm's end hold little military value at that point and can be besieged with a token army of few thousand men If you ask me, Mace was quite eager towards the fight at first but his interest waned as Aerys kept snubbing him in terms of giving him a role in the small council. Qarlton Chelsted was a nobody and yet he was preferred as HOTK to a man who could easily raise a 50k army. He might have sensed that something is wrong with the fact that Tywin not committing any troops to the cause and with Aerys being happy with it. Were the two brewing something behind everyone's back? Under such circumstances, Mace used the same 'wait and see' attitude the Tyrells-Renly's forces used during the war of 5 kings. Let the war unfold itself and only bully yourself in when everyone is exhausted and greatly weakened by it. Unfortunately for him and in similar terms to Tywin, he underestimated Robert's charisma who could swiftly turn enemies into friends.
  7. There are some key events that need to be taken in consideration prior to the sacking of KL. The timeline is also important as it dictates what and why certain things happened. 277 AC - The Defiance of Duskendale 279 AC – Elia and Rhaegar were betrothed 281 AC – Resignation of Tywin from HODK 281 AC – Tourney of Harrenhal 282 AC – Robert’s rebellion started 283 AC – Battle of the Trident 283 AC – Sacking of KL. The Defiance of Duskendale is quite significant for 2 main reasons. a- It was the only time where Tywin publically endorsed Rhaegar as an option to Aerys. b- It was the event that fasttracked Aerys’s descend to madness. After Duskendale Aerys’s paranioa heightened. He mistrusted everyone and he refused to have people he couldn’t trust to walk around him with blades Please note that Tywin’s endorsement occurred before Rhaegar’s betrothal to Elia Martell. The second point is very important but I will deal with it later. The Tourney of Harrenhal was meant by Rhaegar to rally as many the Lords against his father. That coup failed miserably because Aerys knew about Rhaegar’s plan beforehand and he made sure he was present to it. The rest is known history. Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna, Brandon went to KL etc etc etc. We know how Aerys reacted to rebellion. He threatened the Martells with Elia if they don’t commit their army and the Martells responded to that by committing a 10k army, which was around ¼ of Rhaegar’s army at the Trident. We also know how Tywin reacted to the rebellion. He stayed out of it until after the battle of the trident. Same thing can be said about Walder Frey whose son is married to Tywin’s sister. The previous paragraph suggests that Walder and Tywin’s actions were somehow connected. This connection could explain two things a- Why Hoster wasn’t able to punish Walder for not committing his troops to the cause. We know that Hoster was pretty pissed off with the Lord of the Crossing which suggest that he would have made him bleed if he could. b- Why the young wolf was able to take the Lannisters off guard which lead to Jamie’s capture. An army isn’t very easy to hide especially in a land of rivers and plains. The young wolf would have never been able to surprise the lion in the way he did if the lion wasn’t 100% confident that the wolf would not be able to cross the twins so easily. However lets return to the subject. One question still remains though. The reason why Aerys didn’t threatened Tywin in the same way he did with the Martells. Aerys had Jamie under his custody so he could have easily threatened Tywin in the same way with Doran In isolation that point seem trivial. However that is just 1 of 3 odd behaviours done by Aerys. The last Targeryan king would a- allow Jamie (Ie the son of a Warden who remained neutral throughout the war) to remain very close to him, with a sword in hand. At times he was the only KG around him b- He would open the gates wide to Tywin’s 12k army which lead to the KL’s massacre Which makes you wonder why on earth would Aerys do that? Why would someone who suffered from such paranoia and fear of blades trust the son of a Warden who stayed neutral throughout the entire war and had resigned from HODK? Why would Tywin allow his boy to stay in KL despite knowing how instable and how eager Aerys was to humiliate him? Lets forget about that and let’s focus on the battle of the trident especially the numbers, and the terrian. Rhaegar’s army was 40k strong. Robert’s could rely on less men but unlike Rhaegar’s men most were battle hardened. Robert was also fighting on home turf What about the main protagonists of the war? Robert was described by Ned as a force of nature, a man with so much charisma that his enemies would fight against him in the morning and share a pint with him in the evening. Rhaegar on the other hand was quiet, reserved and bookish person. We can assume that if Rhaegar won then the number of casualties in his army would still be devastating. Its not so ridiculous to say that half that army would have ended up either dead or injured. As said the rebels were fighting on home soil. That means that unlike Rhaegar they might have survived a defeat. The defeated army would hide behind walls were they can recover. Anyway, the Targ royalists would probably end up with a 20k army which is scattered besieging 2-3 powerful castles and taking care of the wounded. Even if Robert dies the rebels could still rely on Jon Arryn or Ned Stark for guidance. After all, most of the rebel army were Ned’s/Jon’s troops not Robert’s Tywin sacked KL with an army of 12k. We know that the Westerlands can raise twice the amount of that so its not ridiculous to say that Tywin could raise a 20k army at a moment’s notice. He could probably rely on another 4k from the Freys, which means that Tywin could march in the Riverlands with 24k. That army could easily smash Rhaegar;s depleted and scattered force and bring the treacherous son back to KL in chains. Aerys would have used that opportunity to get rid of his treacherous son and appoint Viserys as his heir. Of course, he would owe Tywin a great deal. With the Lannister+Tyrells army being the only obstacle between an angry/grieving Dorne, North, Vale and Riverlands and the king’s neck, then its within Aerys interest to pay his debts this time round. I can see Tywin returning as HODK, Viserys marrying Cersei, Jamie being released from KG and The Freys being given the Riverlands. As HODK in a land of opportunity (so many castles to give away from the Stormlands right to Riverrun) I sympathise Tywin’s newly found art of persuasion to be enough for Kevan to be granted Storm’s end, especially if either Lancel or Jamie agree to marry Margaery. Unfortunately for the old lion, Robert won and his charisma was enough to convince Rhaegar’s men to bend the knee boosting his army enough for Tywin not to be 100% sure he can beat it. Under such circumstances, Tywin had to make sure that he is at the winner’s side + that every trace of a possible pact between him and Aerys is destroyed before Robert could find out. Hence why Tywin was so brutal in KL. What do you think?
  8. What happened after the tragedy of Summerhall. Seriously, I find Dunk and Egg boring. The dance of dragons on the other hand....
  9. You need to see it from Tywin cynical POV. Sure the relationship with Aerys was unstable but the old lion had neither the casus belli nor the blood line to usurp his crown. With Jamie in KL there was a real risk of losing his golden lion if he acted stupidly. Aerys would still be king. However as Egg can testify, being king means nothing unless you've got the backing of your Lords. The Lannisters are a military and financial powerhouse with historical friendly ties with the Reach. These two regions is what is keeping Aerys from being torn into shreds by a furious North, Vale, Riverlands and Dorne (Rhaegar will be considered as traitor and his children will be removed from inheriting the crown). If Aerys decide to treat the man who kept him on his throne like crap then he cannot really expect Mace to back him up as it is evident that the king has no respect towards loyal bannermen who raise armies and risk their neck to protect him. That means that Aerys and Tywin's relationship will change from that of a king and a mere hand of the king to a similar relationship to what Joffrey and Tywin had a generation later. How would that translate? Its difficult to say however here is my pick a- Tywin would be declared as Lord Protector of the realm and hand of the king b- Cersei will finally marry the crown prince. c- Tywin will argue that crown doesnt have the troops to invade the North and the Vale. Under such circumstances the king will be better off granting Ned and Jon an unconditional pardon as long as they both bend the knee. That might sound extreme but will find support from Mace whose probably in no mood to spend years freezing in the cold. Things are different with the Tullys and expecially the Baratheons. Both houses were appointed LPs by the Targs for their loyalty. So its only fair for them to lose that title after they betrayed the king. The Tullys on the other hand deserve less punishment then the Baratheons as the latter have Targ blood running in their veins. I can see Tywin asking the Tullys to retain Riverrun buy lose their LP status to the Freys while the Baratheons will lose both LP status and the Stormlands. Whose best to manage the Stormlands then the Lord Protector's own brother Kevan Lannister? d- Tywin will keep adding his men at court as he did with Robert. Aerys would be guarded by Lannister men. He will be served wine from Lannister men and will get cured by Pycelle aka a Lannister man. Aerys will have a better KG then Robert did. However with the commander of the gold cloaks on Lannister payroll that will mean very little. .
  10. We know that the Martells were threatened by Aerys to join the war, else Elia would suffer. Strangely enough, Tywin was never threatened. Why would be the case? The Lannisters could raise more troops then the Martells. Unlike the Martells who wanted Aegon to one day be king, the Lannisters had no interest in the Targeryan dynasty at all. That ship sailed long ago when Rhaegar married Elia. So what stopped Aerys from threatening Tywin with Jamie in the same way he did to Doran with Elia? We all know that prior to Robert’s rebellion the relationship between the king and the crown prince was already strained. There were suspicions that Rhaegar was going to use the tournament of Harrenhal as a pretext to convince lords to turn against his father, hence why Aerys made sure he went to Harrenhal himself. We also know that before the battle of the trident Rhaegar told Jamie that he intended to sort this problem after his victory at the trident. We can assume that Tywin learnt about that through Jamie. Rhaegar’s treachery was so deep that 2 KG ie the Sword of the morning and the white bull prefered guarding the crown prince lover then their own king. However lets forget about Tywin for a minute and lets focus on the battle of the trident. Rhaegar’s army at the battle of the trident was 40k strong. Robert’s army was slightly smaller. The latter compensated to that by fighting on home turf + they were battle hardened. If Rhaegar won the battle at the trident then we can still assume that he would have suffered heavy casualties. A quarter of his army would probably end up killed with another quarter being injured. The Rebels won’t bend the knee immediately. As said the Riverlands is rebel’s turf and its renowned for its castles. Rhaegar will have to besiege those castles and force the rebels to surrender. Now back to Tywin. The old lion invaded with an army of 12k. The Westerlands can raise far more troops than that, so we can assume that Tywin could rely on a 20k army at a blink of an eye if he wanted. Walder’s son is Tywin’s brother in law and the fact that the two stayed out of the war is suspicious. The Freys could raise a further 4k if needed. Assuming that the two were working together then we can conclude that Tywin could easily reach the Riverlands with a 24k army, all fresh for the fight ahead.That can easily surprise and break Rhaegar's depleted army. So what was Tywin’s alternative plan? I believe that Aerys and Tywin had already cooked a plan on how to proceed after Rhaegar has won. Tywin’s army would surprise the tired loyalist army, breaking the Crown prince army’s back before he could set the ball rolling for his revolt. The old lion would then bring Rhaegar in chains alongside Robert, Ned and co and he would use his son as witness of Rhaegar’s treachery towards the rightful king of Westeros. In exchange, Aerys would release Jamie from the KG, he would allow the new crown prince Viserys to marry Cersei and he would probably give the Riverlands to Walder Frey. Tywin would be restored as hand of the king and the two would return good buddies as they were before. That would explain why Aerys (who was renowned for his paranoia) allowed Jamie to be so close to him and was so easily swayed to open KL gates to Tywin. The two had been planning stuff together and there was no reason for the mad king to believe that his friend would want to harm him.
  11. Jamie's excuse is very pathetic tbh. If Ned was made to see the boxes of hidden wildfire then he would have understood. The problem with Jamie was that he thought that a lion shouldn't be answerable to a savage Northman. He was wrong on that of course because soon enough everyone hated the Kingslayer
  12. You’re probably right but for the wrong reasons Ned was a follower and a family man. Despite being honourable, he always placed his family first. For example, he brought Jon Snow to Winterfell and he raised him as his son even though he risked irking the Tullys. He retracted his accusations towards Joffrey when threats were made towards Sansa. In contrast Robb was ambitious. He moved South despite the fact that Lannisters held half of his family captive. After defeating Jamie he placed a crown on his head despite his army was too small to defend his new realm. Considering that Sansa was in Lannister’s custody it would have been easier for Tywin to force Ned to bend the knee rather than Robb. The former would have been bad news for Varys whose plan relied heavily on Aegon/Danny finding a divided and weakened Westeros for them to conquer
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  14. Tywin’s plan of having Ned take the black was both unrealistic and stupid. The North wouldn’t have allowed it and Mormont would probably close an eye (and provide Ned with food, a horse and an escort) to his escape. Ned on the other hand, knows very well that his boy is so green that he pisses grass. He would want to take command of his own land himself. Even if Ned does takes the black, Renly and Stannis would have sent him their royal pardon which would allow the old wolf to leave the wall with his head held high. Robb’s love towards Sansa was never as strong as Ned’s. Therefore its was within Tywin’s interest to release Ned so he can assume command of his own troops and end this madness. Tywin could have exchanged Ned for Jamie but only after the former had bent the knee and had admitted that he fell victim to the Baratheon brothers lies (he'll be reminded that Sansa is still in Lannister's custody). Ned would remove his son's silly crown and he would lead the Northern army to battle against Stannis and Renly.
  15. a2nd-3rd sons were very useful for nobility. First of all people used to die like flies through war, pestilence and even the most common of illnesses, which means that 2nd-3rd sons had a good shot of becoming heirs. Secondly inheriting lands and act like a Lord was not the only career progression available. At a time when education was limited to the few 2nd-3rd sons with good connections could find great administrative posts either with the liege lord or the king or have an excellent military career. The church offered great career opportunities too either as a priest (Bishop and cardinal posts were literally bought off back then and they held great political influence + luxuries that no modern priest can enjoy these days including the pope himself) or part of a military order (Knights Hospitaliers etc). Few months ago I had the opportunity to visit the former house (actually a palace) which was bought by a knight of this kind to his mistress. I assure you that the vote of castity and poverty weren't really taken seriously back then.