devilish

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  1. A- Prior to the Targs, all Essosi invasions of Westeros were a success B- Trade reduced significantly, there were famine, loss of knowledge and rise in ignorance. Europe would later on recover, but we will never see a Southern European powerhouse again ever. I know the medieval times very well, as I come from a country whose located at the center of the Mediterranean Sea C- Not really. Even in today's world something like Brexit can limit trade, let alone the medieval world mindset It was within the Robert-Ned-Hoster-Jon interest to keep things as they are. Else they would have lost out on the wealth of the Reach and the Westerlands.
  2. He can aid as much as he want. If Robert is alive then 6 kingdoms will fight like one. If they fight like one than nothing would stop them. Aegon was able to invade Westeros because his dragons were enormous and the Westerosi were busy butchering one another, It won't happen with Robert in command
  3. If that's the case, Aegon will never land in Dorne cause Doran would never give him permission to do so
  4. a- That is why he'll manage to escape with most of the GC. Doran won't commit a potential kinslaying if he can help it. b- 10k will be wiped away like sand by Robert and the other 6 kingdoms and Doran isn't the type to risk his neck in a losing battle.
  5. A- Robert and not Renly. Just as Aegon is innocent for his grandfather/father crimes so is Renly from his brother's crimes. The young Baratheon had been working to push Cersei out since the beginning of GOT. He's Doran's best chance of getting justice. That's a chance far too big for Doran to snub B-C- Taken, kidnapped its has no bearing whatsoever. From Dorne's point of view he humiliated Elia in front of most Lords in Westeros. His actions heavily influenced the course of action, which saw Robert and Ned being sentenced to death and when shit hit fan his lover was kept safe in Dorne surrounded by the KG while his wife and children ended up in KL, first victim to Aerys madness and then Tywin's lust for power/revenge. I have my theories on R+L too but let stick to facts. Rhaegar humiliated Elia, he unintentionally caused the war and he failed to protect his wife and children. The Martells owe the Targs nothing and from their POV they might rot in hell worse then Robert did. D- If we are in an alley, 2 big bullies comes in and they attacked us then I can't blame you for thinking for your own survival. I might be slightly pissed off if you end up in bed with the bully who have beaten me and spared him. There again, I cant blame your little brother who was a baby at home and had since spent his entire time trying to break this poisonous relationship between the bully and yourself. E- I think I answered to that F- All Martells seem not very bright.
  6. A- I am not a big fan of Robert myself but seriously I can't find any possible path he could take in the current timeline. Aerys gave him no options but to rebel. Rhaegar never even tried to negotiate anything with Robert which basically rule out a very unlikely but still possible alliance between Robert and Rhaegar to oust Aerys. Tywin removed the possibility of Robert marrying Rhaegar's daughter, Rhaella died before the rebels could take dragonstone and the dragon prince and princess fled before Stannis could storm the place. The only possible option was a marriage between either Danny and Joffrey or Danny and Robert a generation later. However by that time the feud was too big for either of these party to trust one another let alone get hitched B- But we do know. Ned was there throughout the war and while haven't a certain bias towards the stag his tolerance to ignore Robert's many weaknesses had declined significantly throughout the years. Barristan was on the other side of the barricade, he nearly died for Rhaegar and similarly to Ned he's just too honourable not to say the truth. Don't take me wrong. I do believe that Rhaegar loved Lyanna and Lyanna escaped with him to avoid marry Robert. Its pretty evident even in Ned's words who avoid ever speaking ill of the crown prince. But that's quite insignificant on that regard. The Targs had handled the Martells so badly before and during the war. They were initially involved into Aerys power play with Tywin, then they were humiliated by both Aerys and Rhaegar and then threated. The crown prince even had the audicaty to take his lover to Dorne while leaving Elia alone to the mad king's mercy. I dare to say that they are the biggest victims of them all. If there was someone who should have been at the forefront in punishing the Targs then that someone was Doran C- True and I insist that was Robert's biggest mistake. Even if Cersei turned up to be more loyal to Robert then Ned and a bigger asset to the crown then Olenna was to the Tyrells, he shouldn't have married her. Lannister crimes should have never been dumped upon the new administration. However Renly had nothing to do with it. He was actually the only one trying to get rid of Cersei and her children and if successful he would have brought the revenge the Martells sought for a generation. If baby Aegon is not guilty of his grand father crimes then baby Renly is not guilty of his brother's crime D- And who should inherit the crown? Rhaegar and Aerys were dead and so were Rhaegar's children. Stannis tried to bring the remaining royal family back but they preferred exile then to return home. Taking that in account Robert was the closest in line of succession who remained standing. E- No one expected Doran's compassion, what they expected him to do is to act rather then simply bitch about it. Renly was his best shot of getting his revenge. Instead he stayed home, counting Dorne sand and sending family members whose judgement was so clouded by revenge that they ended up butchered. I mean whom in the right state of mind would play around the Mountain in a 1 to 1 battle or even try and tame a dragon. That shows how desperate the people around Doran were to get their revenge on the Lannisters (not Baratheons but Lannisters, a Baratheon was close by and Arianne was ready to fight for her right to sit on the IT)
  7. Dorne would turn against Faegon and Connington's head would be sent to KL on a pike. However, Aegon and the GC would be able to flee back to Essos.
  8. Iron Islands Noble House Scenario

    I marry Bryda although I make it obvious that since I don't really have a heart I can't love her and since I don't have voice I cant sing. Afterwards I plan a raid to Essos with the Sterns. I’ll take Ivarr with me despite being a cripple. If my ships get sunk, I’d offer myself to the Essosi leaders on the condition of allowing Ivarr to return home safely. I am aware that they would probably kill me, however I am pretty sure that Ivarr and Sigrud would work together to revenge me and guess what, they will be successful. Hopefully Ivarr won’t kill Sigrud though.The former is very intelligent but he’s probably sensitive of his disability. The latter is quite careless in what he does. I have a funny feeling that he will do that.
  9. A- A divided Westeros was always Essos punching bag, from the first men, to the andals right to the Targs. A unified Westeros was able to repel any invasions since and there were times when they could even add new lands to its portfolio (ex the step stones) B- Some regions can’t function alone. The North has no fleet and it depends on trade coming from South. They would be easy prey to raids (ie they can’t answer back) and if the Riverlands close the trade route, well, they are isolated from the rest of the world. The Riverlands on the other hand has too many borders to maintain. C- The creation of Westeros was a success story. The LPs and wardens were kings of their region in all but name and after dragons died out the so called king was nothing more than a glorified regulator, who needed the consensus of the majority of LPs/Wardens to act. That was evident during Egg’s administration.
  10. 1) I am curious to you what other paths he could take. You can't negotiate the man. Rickard tried and he ended up bbqed. You can't negotiate with Rhaegar either. He kidnapped Lyanna and he vanished in thin air for most of the war, leaving his wife and children to the mercy of that mad man only to re-appear at the battle of the trident. Viserys is too young and Danny wasn't yet born. 2) Doran was stuck in Dorne throughout the war. Most of his men were wiped out. We've got the opinion from people who actually bothered fighting the war. People like Ned, Stannis and Robert on one side and Selmy on the other. What happened in KL is pretty straight forward to me. When it was evident that the Targs had been defeated, Tywin assaulted KL and made a massacre. By doing so, he took his pound of flesh (as he always does, the Lannisters always pay their debts and all that) and he also made sure to pave the way for Cersei. Robert's biggest mistake was not to condemn such a crime. TBF he might not even had the men to do so. 3) And that was Robert's only mistake throughout the war. A mistake he paid with his life. That doesn't mean that the rebellion wasn't just. Also Renly has nothing to do with his brother's mistake. 4) The rebellion was just and people die during wars. As said, what happened to Elia was to be condemned but it was Lannisters doing not Renly's. Actually Renly was working on stripping the crown from Lannisters hands and he did that before and after the war of 5 kings. 5) Well no one knows exactly how many men Doran has. GRRM says that they can raise as many men as the North and the Vale (20k-30k?). However, during Robert's rebellion he could only send 10k Dornish men. I think the 20k estimate is correct. Also Dorne have no fleet, so if they wanted to reach KL, then they would have to cross either the Reach (60k) or the Stormlands (20k). Without Tyrell/Renly's consent, Dorne's army would either be defeated or it would be heavily depleted by the time it reached KL. If Dorran hated the Robert then rest assured that Dorne would have never bent the knee to him. Dorne had been successful in repealing a much tougher opponent than the crowned Stag, one who could rely on 6 other kingdoms + dragons. I think that we've got a skewed view of Dorne (mainly because there are more Lannisters among the main characters then Martells). We're talking here about people who are at the forefront of human rights, granting bastards and women far more rights when compared to the rest of Westeros etc. If Dorne was as vindictive as the Lannisters potray them to be, they would have sent Myrcella into very tiny pieces. Instead we see Doran treating her with respect and Arianne trying to fight for her right to the IT. Oberyn died defending a Lannister (ok he wanted to face the Mountain in a fight but he could have got that in an easier way if he wanted to). I believe that they are far nicer and more prone to reason then they are portrayed to be. Actually, Id rather reason with them then with Tywin.
  11. The rebellion started when Aerys ordered Jon Arryn to bring him Ned’s and Robert’s heads on spikes. Surely you can’t blame Robert for rebelling instead of willingly removing his head and handle it back to the mad king can you? Not only that, but throughout the revolt, Robert was nothing but a gentleman, fighting his foe on battlefield and sharing pints of beer with them once they bent the knee. He was certainly better than the Targ dynasty who were busy kidnapping women, threatening and insulting loyal subjects + trying to kill LPs and Wardens like flies. The KL massacre was Tywin Lannister’s doing. The man had stayed neutral throughout the entire war only to get his hands dirty when the war was over. He marched to KL without Robert’s or anybody’s consent and certainly not with Baratheon’s interest in mind. If Aegon had to suffer an accident/be persuaded to take the black then Rhaenyrs would have inherited the IT. That could have pave the way to a marriage between Robert and her, giving him more legitimacy over the crown in the same way Argella Durrandon did with Robert’s ancestor. Tywin wanted to strip that option from Robert’s hands. Robert’s only crime was to reward Tywin for such hideous deed rather than punishing him. It is one thing killing your enemy in battlefield and its another killing innocent women and children in their own bed chamber. Elia was a victim just like Robert was and unlike Robert she wasn’t able to defend herself. That was a mistake that he ended up paying for with his own life and a mistake that neither Stannis nor Renly has to pay for. The latter is even more innocent then the former since he was a baby back then and since he grew old, he’s been working to get rid of that viper once and for all. If Doran held Renly in ill account then he would be a big hypocrite since Renly was a child during the war, just as Elia’s children were. Can you blame Aegon and Rhaenys of their father’s crime? No. Same thing. Now back to the practical thing. Doran doesn't have the men to bring justice to Elia's murder let alone have a Martell sitting on the IT. His only hope is to work with others to strengthen his family's position and get the revenge he wanted. Of course he can alternatively stay idle while his best general dies defending a Lannister and his son is burnt to death trying to tame a dragon.
  12. I think Doran is not very bright tbh. All his plans had brought more misery to the Martells.
  13. North Noble House Scenario

    You are Robert Maulin Lord of House Maulin, a small but prestigious house in the North whose fiercely loyal to the Starks. Throughout the ages, House Maulin had enjoyed a degree of autonomy due to their knowledge about healing. Despite being sworn to the Bolton Kings, the Maulins were given permission to serve other houses as well and there was a time when nearly all houses in the North + the wall had a Maulin serving as a healer. Their role diminished in time due to the arrival of Maesters, but they are still very popular among both noblemen and smallfolk who still seek their knowledge regularly. Maester Luwin was a frequent visitor to Castle Maulin and your healing knowledge was instrumental in curing Lady Arya Stark from high fever. When the Stark became Kings of Winters they demanded the Maulins to be sworn directly to them. That caused enmity between the Starks and the Boltons with the latter feeling, that they were stripped, from a Lordship that was theirs. The Maulins kept their head down and served everyone as they always did, even though that was not always easy. Few years ago, your old uncle who served as a healer in some villages close to the Dreadfort went missing. Three days after his flayed body was found in the woods. Lord Ned pushed you to make an official complaint but you refused. The Maulins were there to serve and they wouldn’t be able to so at the Dreadfort if they threw baseless accusations at Roose and his ilk. The past few years there were difficult though. Your eldest son died during the red wedding and your second son is hostage at CR. Lord Jamie Lannister is willing to send him back but you cannot afford to pay his ransom. Lord Bolton was stopped by other Lords not to strip you from all lands and titles but he did made your life miserable. Your third son had been taken away as his ward and you had to promise to marry off your only daughter to a Frey bastard. That demon seems to have more lives than a cat. He was able to defeat both Stannis and Jon Snow in separate wars. Jon was able to escape in the wolfswood were he still engaging in guerrilla warfare. Stannis was captured alive by Ramsey Bolton who ordered your third son to prove his loyalty towards the Bolton by flaying him alive. There was some hope that Sansa was still alive in LF custody. Rumours said that she would be able to bring the knights of the vale to the rescue. Unfortunately any plans failed when young Lord Robin died. Harold Harydyng stormed the Eyrie few hours later with the backing of Royce and LF barely made it to Harrenhal alive. On a more positive note, the Bolton seems to relent in punishing your family. Some lands were returned and Roose even invited you for dinner, an event that you manage to return from safely. During the event Roose confessed that he was too hard on you and he’ll make amends by sending your son back very soon, he will increase your lands and he’ll intercede with Jamie on your behalf to reduce the ransom significantly. All he’s asking from you is to be loyal and neutral .That event brought some positivity in your life as you were able to see a pregnant ‘Farya’, ending any concerns you had that Ramsey was able to get his hands on the real deal. Things were bound to change few months later. It all started at the Ides of March when a courier arrived with news from Jon Snow. He told you that he was slowly building a small force who can one day challenge the Boltons. Unfortunately his camp was ravaged by high fever and he himself is very sick He remembers how you cured Arya and is requesting that you send him a cure. Such option is low risk. A week later a raven arrived from Harrenhal with a letter signed by Wyman Manderly. The Manderlys had sealed an alliance between Danny, LF some of the Riverland Lords and House Manderly. Soon enough an army will land at White Harbor with Danny and Sansa. They are requesting that you visit some powerful Lords who are known for not liking Roose and persuade them to join the war. The risk of being caught is quite high, your third son will probably die, your lands will be taken and the smallfolk will struggle. However, in exchange Lord Manderly is willing to give your family asylum, he’ll pay for your son’s ransom and if things go well, Sansa had promised you the Dreadfort and a better match for your daughter. That night you could barely sleep so you decide to spend the night at a tavern drinking wine. Suddenly a beautiful woman sits near you. She removes her cap and you’ll notice that she’s Catelyn Tully. Before you can even react, her face changes again and she reveals herself to be Arya Stark. You take her at your castle, making sure no one sees you and ask her what’s going on. She tells that she’s aware of Jon’s and Sansa’s plan but both plans are flawed. The former simply does not have enough men to cause any trouble and his guerrilla warfare is only contributing in taken men away from the cause. Sansa on the other hand is a puppet, who will handle over Winterfell to her husband Tyrion. She proposes to you a third way. a- Don’t help JS. He’ll probably die and he will take his cause with him to the grave b- Do what Sansa told you. However, make the Northern Lords aware that things could change very quickly and so called friends may quickly become enemies Her plan will be to kidnap Sansa and take her place. Once Winterfell is won, she will order LF’s and Tyrion’s arrest. The latter will be shipped off to KL in exchange of all hostages taken during the red wedding. LF and Sansa will be sent to the Vale. The former will answer for his crime while the latter will be married off to Harrold in exchange of support from the Vale in invading KL. When told that Sansa has more claim to Winterfell then her, she smiled only to tell you that the Bran Stark is safe and sound and will honour your efforts by giving you everything that Sansa promised and more. In matter of fact, if you agree with the plan, Arya will rescue your third son from Roose Bolton and she’ll kill Ramsey Snow. What would you choose?
  14. A- Dorne doesn't have enough troops to go toe to toe against the Lannisters let alone eye for the IT B- Doran won't be handling Dorne to anybody. Arianne would marry Loras in a matriarchal marriage. Her children will be Martells. No one said that Robb handled the North to the Westerlings, when he married Jeyne What they get in return is A- Their revenge for Elia's murder B- An improved relationship with a powerful neighbour C- A son in law who happens to be the king's best friend and the queen's sister D- If Renly dies, they would be in a position (in terms of negotiation with the Tyrell family) to pave the way for Danny What they got in the current timeline was A- Oberyn death while defending a Lannister in a trial by combat B- Quentyn burning into ashes while trying to tame a dragon C- A disfigured Myrcella