devilish

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  1. And I am saying that this scenario is very improbable a- Rickard married his son to a Tully to strengthen the main line not to weaken it. Robb had blood ties with House Tully and House Arryn. Those are an extra 50-60k army as top up to the majority of the North who will take the main's line branch b- If Roose was planning to rebel then he'll do it for his benefit not for the benefit of yet another Stark. c- Brothers exist and they are married off. Brynden was meant to marry off to a Redwyne. Garlan was married off to a Fossoway and was given a Lordship. Oberyn could have easily poisoned Dorran, his slutty daughter and his idiotic son. They stood by their Lord side, some fought their brother's son war. They weren't sent to the wall.
  2. Simple, because the Tullys thought that the Freys were inferior. People who can be derided at and humiliated. Cat's problem was more about having her son being portrayed as an oath keeper + losing Walder's forces rather then hurting the Frey's pride
  3. In this timeline Shameme would probably be the first person Roose would want to kill as he'll have more claim to Winterfell and the North then his family does. That would be a bit of a problem for him because all North loyalists + Ryswells and potentially Dustins would raise to war against him. But lets say that GOT never happened, Ned and Benjen died of old age etc.Shameme will ride to battle with Ryswells, Boltons and potentially the Dustins at his back. Robb will play defensively with the remaining North at his back. In few months time a 20k army from the Riverlands will arrive lead by Uncle Edmure. Later on another 20k army from the Vale arrive lead by cousin Robin. By that time, brother in law King Joffrey Baratheon first of his name will arrive with a 40k army half of whom, Lannister men lead by his brother Tommen. I wonder who will win
  4. This is different. a- Cat hated Jon Snow. She could never reconcile the fact that Ned slept with another woman and his son plays and lives like one of her own. If Robb had lived till his 40s then I seriously doubt she would suggest that he'll send Bran and Rickon to the NW b- Jon Snow and Robb Stark are nearly the same age and those who were present when Jon Snow was born are dead. A legitimised Jon Stark can argue that he was born before Robb and therefore he could push for a claim. If Robb turns to be some pompous Lordling that breaks vows and cut Lord's heads then Jon might even find support to that claim. Benjen is a Stark. He's clearly younger then Ned which means that he can't push for that claim without making himself look silly. Therefore Ned and all his children will be given precedence over Benjen and his children
  5. Cat was described as the most beautiful, diligent and intelligent of the two. Tywin was the kind to only want the best for his twins ie a prince for Cersei, the best of Tullys for Jamie. The very fact that he settled for Lysa while a Northerner took the more beautiful of the two flowers clearly show an urge from Lannister side to build alliances
  6. My thread is related to the popular 'Southern ambitions' theory which state that Rickard was the brains behind making alliances with other wardens and LPs through marriages to one day challenge or even topple the crown. Its not the case. The first attempt of intermarriage between two top houses occurred long before Brandon's and Cat's matchup, specifically when Joanna Lannister was still alive. In matter of fact Joanna suggested a marriage between Prince Oberyn & Cersei or Princess Elia and Jamie. It also make sense. At the time the Lannisters were the closest people to the Targs with Joanna serving as hand maiden to the queen and Tywin serving as hand of the king. Royal houses tend to avoid showing their dirty laundry to the public for fear of losing their crown so in all probability the Lannisters were the first to acknowledge Aerys descend to madness and they were probably the only ones to see that for a long time. Also as time go by they were becoming less of the king's favourites and more of his target practice. Aerys harassing Joanna during Tywin's marriage not only costed her the job as queen's handmaiden but also humiliated Tywin in front of his bannermen. The Lannisters had the knowledge and the motive to build such alliances. Let us not forget what happened during the Defiance of Duskendale in 277ac ie just 2 years after Elia and Rhaegar announced they are betrothed. Tywin clearly endorsed Rhaegar as a better option to Aerys. The Lannisters weren't happy with Aerys and they were building the groundwork for a possible coupe d'etat
  7. I don't think that Benjen would have ever raised a finger against his brother. If he did, he would be crushed immediately irrespective on whether he had support from the Rills or not. Ned was loved throughout most of the North. He had support from both the King and the Tullys. A rebellion would have seen the Tullys and the crown join the fray whom in turn would drag the Vale, the Lannister and possibly anyone who was eager to kiss the kings arse (ex Tyrells) As said the medieval times were wierd with women thought to be too sensitive and weak to rule.As a widow Lady Barbrey was vulnerable both from influence within her castle and from the outside. People would be salivating at that castle and lands of hers. We all know what happened to Lady Donella Hornwood and Lady Shella Whent. By marrying a Stark she would have been protected. No one would dare touching a hair to Benjen as that would have to fight against 2/3 of Westeros. That's an act of kindness and great respect especially towards a widowed lady whose growing old.
  8. There’s a very popular theory that Rickard was making powerful marital matchups for his kids in a bid to consolidate the North’s power and maybe match or even topple the Targ’s dynasty. Those who contest this theory tend to highlight the fact that Rickard tried to marry his children to sons and daughters of other Wardens and LP instead of those to Northern banner men But who kick started this series of marriages? Who was the brain behind such strategy? That is kind of important because whoever started the whole thing might have been the brains behind it all. We know from Oberyn Martell, that Elia and himself arrived to CR few months after Joanna Lannister died. The Red viper say that Joanna was working on a betrothal between Martells and Lannisters that would have ended with either Oberyn marrying Cersei or Jamie marrying Elia. Unfortunately by the time they arrived to CR, Joanna died and Tywin was unreceptive to such deal. His plan was to marry Cersei to Rhaegar. Instead he offered Tyrion in marriage which was flatly rejected by the Martells. Oberyn also said that previously they had travelled to other castles including Starfall, Arbor, Old Town, the Shield Islands and Crakehall. These two points are quite significant a- This whole thing started before Joanna died b- None of the big houses were interested in the Martells. That includes Rickard and Hoster who are supposed to be the brains behind this power grabbing thing. Joanna died in 273 AC. Brandon was 11 at that age while Cat was probably younger. We also know that Brandon deflowered Lady Barbrey. Considering that she isn’t the kind to lose her maidenhood with somebody whose promised to another (+ its difficult to think that Brandon could have sex at age 11 with possibly a young girl) then we can safely say that Brandon’s betrothal was planned after Joanna’s death, possibly when he was 15 or 16 years of age. Another key element to all this is the fact that Tywin agreed of having Jamie marry Lysa Tully. Which makes you wonder why he accepted that? Some might suggest that Cat was already ‘booked’ for Brandon and they are probably right. However what fascinates me is the fact that Tywin still agrees to a marriage between his golden child and the Tully’s sloppy second. We’re talking here about a man who could only see his daughter marry a queen and we all know that the lion rated Jamie more then he rated Cersei. I mean the Lannisters are far more powerful and richer then the Tullys and the Starks. Why would Tywin allow this union? Unless…..Hoster had something that Tywin needed ie girls to marry and the right connections. All fingers point to the Lannisters which is fair enough. Tywin was Aerys hand and Joanna was the queen’s hand maiden. They knew that Aerys was descending into madness long before others did. Aerys show during Tywin’s wedding must have panicked the Lannisters, encouraging them to start building alliances with other houses just in case things go wrong. Joanna being a good mother wanted her children as far away as possible from the crown as possible (ie Dorne). Tywin on the other hand saw an opportunity out of this ie by having Cersei marrying Rhaegar and then use a possible marriage deal between Jamie and the daughter of the official wheeler and dealer of Westeros (Hoster) to stage a coup against Aerys. Somehow along the lines Aerys noticed it and ruined the rebellion by having Rhaegar marrying Elia and by employing Jamie in the KG. However by that time the cat was out of the bag. Hoster knew that the king was mad and if a rebellion was staged then the Lannisters would stay out of it. He must have spilled the beans with Rickard whom in turn, he pushed a marriage between Robert and Lyanna + he sent Ned as ward to the Vale.
  9. Ned ignoring Lyanna

    It is an undeniable fact that Henry Tudor ended up a mentally ill person towards the end of his life. Syphillis had ravaged him by that time and the result wasn’t nice. However his concerns about not having a son were legitimate. He was a ruler of a fledgling and therefore weak dynasty who took the crown by might of conquest. Till his time no English queen was able to hold to the crown for long. His frustrations in not being able to convince Rome to give him a divorce were legitimate too. Kings were spoilt brats with loads of power. The church would usually bend over backwards to appease them as that would translate in riches and pledges of allegiance. Rome would probably appease him too if only his first wife didn’t happen to be part of the most powerful noble European family of the time. Therefore, by not consenting the divorce, the pope was clearly saying that the emperor of the Holy Roman Empire was more powerful and rated than the King of England. That was a fair thing to say but something no king wants to hear. I don’t buy this Southern ambitions thing. Sure Rickard lead to some prestigious marital matchups in his life time. There again I feel that these marriages were more to defend the noblemen’s rights rather as than as some cunning plan to topple the Targ dynasty. Don’t forget that Egg brought some serious reforms which were meant to help the smallfolk but which ended up hurting the noblemen + I am pretty sure that rumours about the Mad king were slowly but surely spreading up throughout the 7 kingdoms. It is only fair for Wardens and Lords Paramount to try to gang up together just in case they need to strengthen their cause against any other hostile reforms. If Rickard wanted to topple Aerys then he would have called the banners the day Brandon was arrested. That’s what Robb Stark did when his own father was arrested. Instead he went to KL to try and negotiate with the King, a strategy that costed him his life. That’s not the way an usurper would have acted.
  10. Ned ignoring Lyanna

    He knew Robert and he also knew Lyanna and how wild she is. Would he force her into a marriage to a man she didn't liked? And even if the answer is yes, would Brandon and Robert still cause such outrage if they knew that Lyanna didn't liked the prospect of marrying Robert very much and was eager to find a way out?
  11. Ned ignoring Lyanna

    Lyanna did voiced her concerns with Ned about not wanting to marry Robert, something Ned brushed aside. If he did took them seriously and he forwarded his concerns to Rickard, Brandon and Robert do you think that would change anything. As a second son, Ned had as much influence as Hodor on these matters. But as a dutiful Stark son and as Robert's best friend, his words did carried some weight. The North doesn't come across as a region were wolves are forced to marry outsiders against their will. Also maybe Brandon wouldn't had gone off the handle when Rhaegar 'kidnapped' Lyanna either.
  12. Ned Ignoring Arya

    Why are you surprised? Ned is a second son who lived in a medieval mindset. a- Medieval society didn’t like women messing up into politics, especially when they are young and rebellious. b- As second son, he was programmed to always know his place, to obey orders, to show absolute loyalty to his big bro and to let matters that require decision making to his brother. When Rickard and Brandon died, Ned replaced them with Robert He did the same thing with Lyanna when she voiced her concerns about Robert to him. As second son he had no power to stop the matchup but as brother he had the duty to voice those concerns to both his father and to his best friend. Lyanna was wild and unstoppable. Forcing her to marry against her will might have had some serious consequences in the future.
  13. Where in the Seven Kingdoms would you live?

    I think that Duncan achieved very little in his training. He lived a life serving some average knight and ended with some lousy training, no idea of how nobility or the world works and no knighthood. If he wasn't extremely lucky (ie finding a Targ prince along the way and having a crown prince dying for him etc), he would have ended up killed or severly maimed by the age of 20ish. If I was his size I would have invested my time better. Flea bottom is a place were you live or die by the sword, so I should leave there knowing exactly what a sword is and having enough knowledge to wield it. Once I am of a decent age I'd move away to improve my skills further. The land between the Stormlands, the Reach and Dorne is pelted with excellent swordmen and they wouldn't mind having a giant watching their back in exchange of food, training and a bit of gold. Who knows, maybe some Lord would be interested in turning me into the new Gregor Clegane, by giving me, adequate training, lands and a title in exchange of me doing the dirty work for him. If I hit that jackpot then I'll remain there but unlike Gregor I would make sure to increase my skill. Surely there would be an excellent old swordsman around whose willing to give lessons in exchange of food and a warm bed. Irrespective whether I hit the jack pot or not by age 20ish I should be able to become quite good with the sword. I'm not saying Id have to be a Selmy or an Arthur Dayne but I should be able to go toe to toe against any knight without making myself look silly. If I don't hit the jackpot then Id move to Essos and I'll should be skilled enough to take a job with the Golden company. The GC loves tall people who know how to wield a sword so I'd probably raise up the ranks quickly there. That means more money, which would translate in better training and armour which in turn would translate into more money. If I meet Oberyn Martell along the way then I'll probably join him. There's so much to learn from a person like him and sure as hell he's got some good connections. Dorne has lost so many men during the war so they surely would appreciate somebody who is battle hardened and would know how to wield the sword. Its also a land were baseborn aren't look too much down to and a land filled with reckless men whose quick to go to the sword and therefore quick to lose their title. Lands need lords, Dorne need swordsmen and Dorran loves cautious people who knows how to wield the sword. If I don't hit that jackpot then I'll stay in Essos for enough time to be able to recoup enough money to buy some land and a title in the Reach. Don't take me wrong I am not aiming to become the new Hightower. No baseborn irrespective of how good he's with the sword could achieve that in just 1 generation. In my circumstances I would aim to become the new Cleganes with my kids given the best military training I can possibly afford. In 4-5 generations time, I hope that my family would build enough reputation to become the new Tarlys
  14. A- Surely by that time Ned would have taken him to the Greyjoy rebellion + as a non main branch Stark he would probably be put in bigger risk then Ned or his sons (ex against the wildlings) B- I don't understand your timeline. Are you suggesting prior to Robert's death (ie when Ned was made hand of the king)?. Even in that case I can see Ned leaving Robb behind with Benjen. First of all because Robb need to start learning how to rule Winterfell (and with Ned forced to be Robert's bitch who can do that better then alongside Benjen?). Secondly he's not needed at KL. Ned can marry him off to somebody without him being present in the courting process. If Benjen was still around as Winterfell's castellan then rest assured that he would be regent not Cat.
  15. Where in the Seven Kingdoms would you live?

    For smallfolk the non committal approach is all they got to avoid a life working in the fields and being used as cannon fodder in war. Regarding training I was thinking the unconventional way of learning how to fight rather than that of a squire with a proper knight (ie like Bronn). That's because the best knights tend to be well sought. A great knight will probably choose a squire from nobility or a family member not smallfolk. Meanwhile learning stuff from a lousy knight is pretty useless. That means learning fighting from the streets and there's plenty of swordfighting lessons learnt in the region between the Stormlands, Dorne and the Reach. Once I know how to use the sword I'd move to Essos. I might leave earlier if there's a war in Westeros as I said, I'd rather avoid being used as cannon fodder. The risks are just too high and the benefits far too low. My skills in sword fighting should help me go up the ranks in a sellsword company and Id invest some of my loot in armour and more training (training with a disgraced knight like Jorah Mormont?, Bravoosi swordfighting maybe?). That will turn me into a better sellsword, increasing my part of loot and hopefully by the end of it I'd be rich enough to afford buying land and maybe a title. Its only then when I would return to Westeros. The Reach would be my target. Its well managed, they like good swordsmen and people who are well versed in war, they have pretty ladies, they only tend to involve themselves in war that are profitable for them and their land is fertile. Who knows, maybe my martial skills will attract Tarly's attention.