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  1. Spoilers for Episode 6:
  2. I'm usually of the opinion that 90 % of the posts in the rant threads are just made for the sake of picking the episode apart. Therefore, I tend to avoid the threads. However, the plot line beyond the wall was such an incoherent clusterfudge from its conception to its aftermath that an "oh, it was all a dream and I'm still on Dragonstone and we're mining dragonglass" ending would actually have improved it at this point. The... incident... has been covered so extensively by now that I guess that the original contribution I could make would be to point out that the chains would be more likely to tear the head off the dragon than pulling it out of the water. It's stuck under the ice, and a lot of force is applied. At the very least, its neck would be soundly broken in a dozen places.
  3. Worse still... they had a long, nice lake to drag those chains across. Hundreds of wights per length of chain. Sounds like sufficient force to tear the dragon's head off pull the dragon out of the lake. I guess its neck would be pretty broken now, though. Effectively, they've hanged the dragon with iron collars, via the pull of chains and friction rather than the pull of gravity, but the same principle is at work. There would be a lot of dislocated disks in that dragon neck at the very least. And for some reason, the work leader decided to let the front of the columns walk up a hill while pulling. Congratulations, all those men at the front are now worse than useless. The force they pull with would pull the chains taut - that is, a straight line from the top of the hillside to the dragon - thereby lifting the middle and end of the columns (who are still marching on flat ice) up in the air, instead of helping them put horizontal force on the dragon. Okay, arguably this is the direction they want to pull the dragon in in the first place (out of the ice instead of along the lakebed), but then the rear of the columns just weigh the chains down and pull in the wrong direction anyway. In either case, only half the men are actually doing something to get the dragon out of the lake, the other half are making it harder. Rope pulling only helps when everybody is pulling in the same direction. These guys had a bend in the chains - against the direction of gravity, no less - which would make the contribution of roughly half the members completely useless. No wonder why we see the chains are actually quite slack between the dragon and the rearmost pullers. Oh, and the timelines didn't quite add up either. But that has been extensively covered in this thread already. All I could contribute at this point was a bit of cable theory.
  4. I can only imagine all the training that lay behind that one shot. Imagine how many training shots the Night King needs to have taken to be able to throw that accurately. On the tundra, day in and day out, throwing javelins at wighted birds or whatever. Maybe he had pulled a tendon a couple of times and had to rest for a few weeks, before going back out to the range. I can imagine his early throws going wildly off target, the stupid bird flying in figure 8s above the range, the javelin landing nowhere near it. How many days did the Night's King throw his icicle to the ground and stomp angrily to the wardrobe for a long, nice, cold shower? How many times did he slip and fall, or flunk his throw? How many icy swear words has he shouted after missing by only centimetres due to an erratic gust of wind? How great was his hit percentage before he decided to call his training sufficient to hit a dragon-sized target? Does he practise with tree branches or other javelins every day while on the march? Is that why they only had 2-3 javelins left? And I wonder if that other guy who handed him the javelin has been his caddie for long, or how that arrangement came to be? They didn't seem to verbally communicate, so the caddie must have learned to read his boss' subtle movements for "bring me a javelin, size 4, I think". Did he compliment his master for a well-thrown shot? Or comfort him after he missed Drogon? Or has he learned from experience to keep his tongue tied when his master throws a bad shot? Since there were only a handful of javelins left, did he have to go pick up the one that missed?
  5. That zombie bear was hacked apart, battered, and even set on fire. It kept on fighting. One prick with the obsidian dagger, though, and it fell to the ground like a sack of ash. In a universe of consistent logic, mass arrow fire with obsidian arrows would bring a wighted dragon down in seconds. Keep in mind that their effective fire-spewing range is a lot shorter than the range of a longbow (some 50 meters or so, apparently depending on the needs of the scene). A scorpion hit like the one Bronn scored on Drogon would cause the dragon to fall apart in mid-air, possibly without even slowing the bolt down. As for defeating the army of the dead, daggers like used in the show seems like the wrong way to go. Even arrowheads would be suboptimal. If they want to truly stop the dead, they need to make obsidian caltrops. Find a chokepoint, scatter caltrops with catapults, bait the army into rushing forward. For every pricked foot, a warrior drops inert to the ground. Advanced strategies would involve obsidian-tipped barbed wire, strung out at face height or in concertina arrangements so the mounds of dead bodies won't create a footbridge across the "mine"field. The good ol' Saddam strategy might work well too, the wights have proven stupid enough to walk into deadly obstacles by the hundreds before sensing the danger, but I don't think Westeros has any oil fields to set ablaze.
  6. The thread title asks "Who or what will die beyond the Wall". For this particular mission, logic died on Dragonstone. "Let's send our dearest and most valuable men, including our top three military commanders, beyond the Wall - alone - to personally capture a wight we could show to Cersei, that would surely convince her to agree to an armistice!" This proposal was not meant with a "What, no!", or an "Are you drunk?", or "I can think of a million other plans we could try first", or even a "Good idea, but uh, how exactly are the logistics going to work out there?". Heck, even a "Let's bring a sled we can lash the captured wight to!" might have saved logic to some degree. But no, six valuable men on foot with no equipment to speak of was the plan they went with. Logic was well and soundly dead long before they got to the Wall.
  7. There's an enemy fortress and fleet parked right in the middle of the only sea route out of King's Landing, which is the only proper port on the east coast of Westeros that the Iron Throne controls. That's normally a very effective blockade that would make it impossible to transport any large amount of gold to Braavos, or to sellsword companies. If that logistical challenge is never brought up (actually, it is explicitly ignored, since we've seen Euron use the route past Dragonstone at least three times after Daenerys took it), it's safe to assume that a lot of things will be lumped into that blind spot too.
  8. I'd say everybody, apart from Jon. This whole expedition reeks of the writers' need to: Show the viewers how dangerous the Army of the Dead is (even though main characters have trekked up and down the continent multiple times in the time it took this army to march on the Wall). Create some action scenes north of the Wall, for whatever flimsy reason. Kill off a few named characters, both to cut loose threads and for the shock value of lots of beloved characters dying. So I guess Beric and Thoros are toast (well, to the extent icy wights can "toast" anything), they have no purpose in the final five-or-so episodes that other characters can't resolve. Sandor too, he might redeem himself by sacrificing his life to save some of his companions (anyway, his only remaining purpose would be to kill the reanimated Mountain, which frankly is a job that could be done just as nicely by others). Jorah needs to get out of the way too, so a love triangle won't eat too much of Daenerys' screentime (five episodes left after the next, remember). Gendry was quite possibly written out of the show when he got on that rowboat, and intended never to return. But the writers noticed that fans noticed that he hadn't got a proper ending, and his absence was becoming memetic. So they brought him back in, so he can be killed off in a proper, definitely-the-end-of-the-character way. He is a loose thread, only brought back to be ripped out properly. That leaves Tormund to account for: I'm sorry, but I think he's toast (or, uh... slush?) too. Dead beyond the wall, in his homeland. The series previously stated that "the Wildlings went to Eastwatch", which is to say "Every remaining Wildling is at Eastwatch". Keep in mind that there is nothing left in Dorne after the Sand Snakes died, that entire region just faded away with the death of its leadership - same goes for the Reach, which is apparently nothing but Highgarden. The series has a habit of hyper-concentrating things, not as much happening on a large continent as on a sea of tiny islands. Anyway, with the Wildlings all at Eastwatch, left a faceless group with their leader dead, the Wall looming above them, and a huge Plot Point army on the other side? There is no way this won't end with the Wall falling, and a subsequent massacre. Time will tell whether Davos dies in that battle too. I'd also throw in Benjen there somewhere. Not sure if he lives or dies or turns evil. But there's no way he won't be there.
  9. The best line in that regard was from last season: "You're here at Winterfell, and a battle is looming. The Knights of the Vale are encamped at Moat Cailin, they will come to your aid." (heavily paraphrased, I can't remember the exact wording). They might as well have said "You're in Helsinki, and a battle is looming, but don't worry. Some dudes on horseback are encamped just outside Madrid". Then again, this season is pretty egregious too. It's not like the opening cinematic shows Dragonstone completely dominating the sea route in and out of King's Landing, or there being an entire continent to sail around to get to Casterly Rock...
  10. Paraphrasing: "I've grown used to him [the King in the North]". As for your second question, I can't remember.
  11. This episode began pretty much exactly as I had expected! Jaime and Bronn break the surface, crawling ashore. The only thing I was wondering about was which of them would surface first. One issue, though: Tyrion says to the Tarlys: "This war has already destroyed one great house". How is he counting to only end up with one? The Baratheons are goners for sure. And the Tyrells, and the Tullys. You can argue about the Martells. Frey and Bolton were warden houses when their last members died. Also, I guess we will lose a half-dozen named characters in the next episode. So long, everybody who crossed the Wall except for Jon!
  12. Sorry for maybe being off-topic, but I found no other place to reach out without bumping some very old threads. And speaking of which, why is this thread in the ADwD section still stickied? It concerns an event that took place half a decade ago, and seems not to have been updated since.

  13. In other words: 2017 is totally out of the question either way? As in, it's practically confirmed from official sources that the novel will not be released this year?
  14. It may be that Stannis left a skeleton garrison there. After all, Daenerys tears down his banner from the main hall, signalling that his forces were the last to occupy the island. To me, it seems reasonable that the skeleton force abandoned their post when news of Stannis' defeat and death reached them. Dragonstone is an island without any civilian settlements, and with Stannis dead nobody would come with supplies or relief aid. The Dragonstone garrison would literally be the only ones left. They could stay there without orders, without a lord to serve, without a purpose, without pay, and without supplies, or go find something else to do. The only people who would possibly show up on shore would do so with an intent to take the castle, at which point the Stannis loyalists would risk capture and/or death. Sure, they could hold out for a while, but to what end? In the long run, they probably couldn't even maintain the castle. Better then to slip away while nobody's looking, go home to their families and maybe tend to a patch of land before winter comes. It did annoy me, though, that Daenerys' Unsullied could walk right up to the gatehouse doors and open them with a gentle push. The wind would have battered unfastened doors to splinters long before she'd shown up, yet no fastening system was shown.
  15. I wonder how drastic a cut could feasibly be? Just imagine the possibilities: Daenerys suddenly realizes she's pretty popular in Essos, has never set foot in Westeros, and she doesn't know squat about that continent's contemporary politics. Besides, the Seven Kingdoms have a bad case of undead infestation while Essos is warm and sunny. She decides to abandon the whole invasion, and carve herself an empire in Essos instead. Or an even faster solution to her story arch, she dies of dysentery shortly after the Dothraki find her. The White Walkers turn out to be a dud. Just as an invasion force is massing at the foot of the wall, they are hauled back to the Land of Always Winter by their disapproving mothers. "What did we say about going that far south, young man? And stop reanimating corpses, you'll go blind!" Cersei has one drink too many one evening, and the next morning she's still a little tipsy as she decends from her chambers. She stumbles down a staircase, breaking her neck. The Faceless Men straight-up kill Arya for her insolence. Her story arc ends mid-sentence. Euron encounters a freak hurricane on his way to Oldtown, which smashes his fleet and drowns him. Jon Snow remains dead, no resurrection. Tommen decides being king isn't all it's cracked up to be, and gladly yields the throne to Aegon. He and Margaery retire to this little cottage in the Westerlands, adding "T+M" next to the faded "T+T" carved into its doorway. Davos trudges around Skagos for a while, miserable in hail, sleet, and mud. After falling on his ass after sliding in unicorn dung for the twenty-eighth time, he decides "screw this!" and heads home to his wife. Stannis wins the Battle of the Ice, retakes Winterfell, kills the Boltons, and in the process becomes so gosh-darn tired of warfare and kingmaking that he decides to leave it at that. They wait out the winter repairing Winterfell, and then retire to the up-for-sale Dreadfort. Bran wakes up at Queenscrown, finding out that the entire trip beyond the Wall was a dream. He decides "let's not go to the three-eyed raven, it's a silly place", and instead they head to the Umbers where Rickon is already waiting for him. After Stannis retakes Winterfell, they move back in. Sansa wakes up the morning and realizes she likes lemon cake more than the Game of Thrones. Highborn life isn't glamorous, it's dangerous, and she can't marry for love without making everything a hundred times worse. She sneaks out in the middle of the night, goes to Gulltown, where she opens a bakery. The risk pays off, she has lemon cake every day for the rest of her life, plus a loving husband and a flock of healthy children. Littlefinger becomes so upset with Sansa leaving that he starts demanding that the lords of the Vale go after her. They listen to his wailing for a while until they grown tired of it, then arrange a hunting accident for him in his bed. He is found tragically gored by a griffin, whose claws look remarkably like daggers. Tyrion randomly stumbles across Tysha five minutes after landing in Westeros. Turns out whores go to a small secluded place on the coast of the Stormlands, where they spend the days looking out at sea, in case their loved ones come sailing in on the tide, with or without an invasion force at their back. After an uneventful capture of Casterly Rock, he pays his dues to the Second Sons and lives out his days as Aegon's Warden of the West. Dorne suffers a massive drought and all the characters there tragically die of thirst. Off-screen. Victarion has one look at a Dragon in Meereen, thinks "nope!" and throws the dragon horn overboard. After the battle, he goes to the Basilisk Isles to live out his days in piracy. Jaime and Brienne are hanged by Lady Stoneheart, who falls apart from rot shortly after. The Brotherhood Without Banners is then reformed into a farming collective. Samwell Tarly has five uneventful years in Oldtown, finishes his Maester's Degree, marries Gilly and moves someplace pleasant. The rest of the characters go unmentioned. Heck, even with a lot of drastic cuts, the amount of characters and story arcs mean it would still probably take a book or two to tie it all up.