Julia H.

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About Julia H.

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    Shepherd of Wolf Pups

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  1. Turning Jon evil at a single stroke would mean wasting all the character development so carefully built up in five lengthy books. It would mean essentially replacing a major character with a totally new one - and all that happening so late in the story. I doubt GRRM would do that. As for Jon remaining permanently dead now - it would be rather bad story-telling, considering that his story is by no means finished yet. I don't think we have to worry about that. (Of course, it does not mean that Jon will necessarily be alive at the end of the series.) Changes in character will definitely happen, but they may be just changes that would result naturally from such a trauma. There may also be magical changes (depending on what is going to happen), but I think it's important that Jon should keep his humanity intact for the simple reason that he is humankind's "champion" against the Others, and because human readers can more easily sympathize or identify with a fully human hero. Regarding another question: I have my reservations about the idea that his watch will end because of a death that is not permanent. On the one hand, I don't think Jon will use such an excuse or that GRRM would give him such a convenient way out. I think Jon will remain the shield that guards the realms of men whatever happens, and he will continue to consider himself a man of the Night's Watch until one day he thinks that abandoning the Watch would serve his goal (of being the Shield) better or he thinks that being a man of the NW has become totally irrelevant to his life purpose. In that case, however, he will probably just admit being a deserter and damn the rules. He will simply do what must be done and he will not worry about finding a suitable pretext. The fight for survival will come first, and it will probably change quite a few things in Westeros anyway. If Jon ever starts worrying about oath-breaking, the fact that he has died once will not calm his conscience when he is obviously alive. On the other hand, I doubt that this explanation would be accepted by Westerosi society unless something very extraordinary happens, something that parallels the birth of dragons, which put Dany above the usual (Dothraki) rules and which stopped people from wondering how she had survived the fire. (At least symbolically it is a death and rebirth motif, too.) Such a development would probably make Jon a legendary outcast in society. It is possible, of course, but then would he still need a "legal" excuse to get out of the NW? Probably not.
  2. Even without counting Jon's friends on the Wall, that single enraged giant whose life Jon saved seems to be pretty bad news for the assassins. According to a brilliant theory proposed by @bemused, Marsh and Co may have planned to have Jon assassinated during the Hardhome mission. After all, all sorts of things can happen beyond the Wall, and they wouldn't even be the first ones to have this idea. When Jon changed his plans, however, they also had to change theirs, rather quickly (before Jon would be out of their reach), and the new plan was not particularly sophisticated. By the way, even Mance knows that Marsh is not a great strategist at all, nor does Marsh seem to be good at thinking ahead - though his tears during the assassination attempt strongly imply that he knows he is in great danger at the moment, so he is probably clever enough to realize that. In addition, Marsh seems to be a follower rather than a true leader type. @bemusedalso suggests that there may be a secret mastermind behind the plans, someone who doesn't mind sacrificing Marsh and others. Before leaving the Wall, Alliser Thorne warned Jon that he would be back ... dead or alive - and he didn't seem to be keen on the "dead" version, so he may have just made it sure that he would make it back alive (secretly) before he could be killed. In this case, Marsh may be following Thorne's plan now.
  3. I would like an extension, please, if it is not too late.
  4. 1) 2 2) 4 3) 1
  5. Just curious here: Most of these goods would have to come from North of the Wall (the NW territory doesn't have so many resources). Would the NW under your command acquire them through fair trade from the wildlings or would you simply colonize and exploit the areas that do not belong to either the NW or the Seven Kingdoms? In the first case, it seems that the NW (or at least Eastwatch) should turn into a huge trading post, where wildling goods are gathered and shipped onward to the Free Cities, and, of course, a large amount of goods are also sent back North of the Wall as payment. All those goods should also be imported from somewhere, as I don't think the NW would be able to produce enough goods to pay for all those mammoths and bronze and whale oil etc. As a result, the NW would probably need a new order, the largest of all: the Order of Merchants. It would probably become a very powerful and influential order within the NW, but to make it successful, it should be filled with competent, educated and preferably reliable people (who wouldn't sail away with the profit), so no random criminals. To attract such people, those strict rules would have to change - the merchants would want a comfortable life, some personal gain, and yes, wife and kids. Where would that leave the other orders? The rangers, the builders, the stewards? Could you keep the same strict rules for them? The NW would change into a completely different organization, which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing in general, but you'd have to be extra careful to keep up the standard of the fighting skills and to keep the Wall strong and intact otherwise the threat of the Others would find the "NW" ultimately just as badly prepared as in the actual story. Unfortunately, before you, the Lord Commander of the NW, could start building up this large international trading post, you'd need to raise a significant amount of venture capital somehow to build ships, finance voyages, acquire the first shipment of goods, hire the people with the necessary knowledge, etc. Another problem would be that the lords of the realm would probably notice something weird going on in the North and they might just want to stop you before you become too powerful. The sad truth is that the lords of the Seven Kingdoms do not want a too strong and fairly independent military organization up there, especially when there is no imminent military threat from the Far North, because they would see you and your wildling friends as a threat. All in all, before all these happy changes could be realized, one or two of your brothers would probably come up to you one day and stab you in the back "for the Watch" to keep those lords happy. In the second case, the NW would have to turn into a colonizing power North of the Wall, which would also require significant human, military and economic resources and would not guarantee a good relationship with the wildlings in the end (so you would still have to defend the Wall actively against them, etc.). Such an adventure might receive some support from some adventurous lords, but they would also want their share of the profit. The trade with the Free Cities would still require competent people, so see above.
  6. the turtle, "but
  7. these humans from
  8. LOL, so now we have disguised identity theories about each other? Anyway, the Giant is really a giant. I can hear his giant footsteps as he is running now close on my heels. Just one more giant step and he will overtake me! Oh, and I mustn't forget about that Bird either - after all, she has wings! My votes: 1) 4 2) 7 3) 2
  9. 1) 5 2) 6 3) 3
  10. 1) 1 2) 3 3) 6
  11. 1) 1 2) 5 3) 6
  12. was holding onto
  13. raised his tail
  14. I am not judging anyone's future actions. I'm only drawing conclusions from their current motivations. At the moment, Dany has dragons and an army of cruel savages that she wants to take to Westeros. She wants to take revenge and get back her birthright and does not think of saving Westeros from any war or destruction or suffering. Maybe she will in the future. Hopefully. But at the moment we don't know that. And it also remains to be seen if she is the one who has or will have the true means to protect the realm against the Others. Of course, she can kill off the likes of Littlefinger and Euron and so on easily, but she will have to kill a lot of innocents before she can get to the evil guys. Also, she has very little objective information about Westeros, therefore I'm not sure she will be the right person to judge who should live or die. Jon has already decided to dedicate his life to the protection of humanity. He is also one of the most compassionate and selfless characters in the story, and his storyline so far has had the regular elements of a hero's journey. It is true that he doesn't have the means to defeat the Others at the moment, but that can and probably will change. It is no accident that he identifies himself as the shield that protects the realms of men. Of course. GRRM may decide on a sudden twist that turns Jon into a completely different character (evil or selfish or whatever), just as he may suddenly turn Euron into a good guy, but I don't think it is likely, nor do I think it would be a good idea.