Jaak

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  1. Would it have been necessary for Maegor to behead Gawen, or would the Gawen have settled for the reply - "Iron Throne belongs to one with the strength to claim it!"? Would Aenys himself have continued to look at himself as a true king? Or could Maegor have cleared King´s Landing of rebels and invited his weak brother back to King´s Landing to publicly abdicate, hand over his crown and back Maegor as the new conqueror of the kingdom he had lost? Why were Aegon and Rhaena left in Westerlands just so? For some reason, they could not save themselves either by burning the rebels or flying away, nor were any lords loyal enough to go and relieve Crakehall. And after Maegor came, they just dallied in King´s Landing - Crakehall was finally relieved by drawing off the besiegers, not by active assistance. Dragons are fast - not only Balerion but Vhagar, just consider the time Visenya needed to fetch Maegor. Even if it did not occur to Maegor or was not his priority, Visenya on Vhagar might, for example right after burning of Sept of Remembrance when Maegor was safe on Iron Throne, have flown for Crakehall, avenged the insult by dragonfire, and urged her teenage nephew to bow to the uncle who recovered the kingdom his father had lost. Not just leave the couple brooding and plotting.
  2. Or because the reason Gyldayn mentions - Targaryens being generous, perhaps relatively cash rich due to trade, had a practice of using carrots. They could find fathers willing to pimp their daughters and even husbands/grooms willing to pimp their wives/brides, for right prices. It´s not a matter of jealousy only, though. In many societies, getting cheated is a stain on a man´s honour. A man willing to sell his wife and raise another man´s child, indeed make another man´s child his heir, might be happy with the price for the fact, yet be ashamed if he´s known in public to have done the deal. (Which is where custom of first night may help. For a kind lord, it gives a kind of plausible deniability - the groom claims he could not refuse, where in fact the lord consulted the groom beforehand and would have chosen to not visit if he knew the groom minded.) Aegon Unworthy paid 7 dragons to a blacksmith for Merry Megette - along with threat for ser Joffrey Staunton. He was 20. Why did ser Joffrey let him? Daeron lived, and so did Baelor. No one knew that both Daeron and Baelor would die childless. Ser Joffrey could have told: "I´m detailed to protect you, not obey you and to keep King´s secrets, certainly not to keep your secrets from King. Leave your host and his wife unmolested. If you don´t, I´m not helping you except to protect you from physical hurt, and report your conduct to Aegon III and Viserys ASAP, by raven if urgent enough and on our return at the latest. BUT, if I´m satisfied that the smith is really willing to make deal at the price, and asks you not to walk away without the deal, then I´ll leave it for you". At what price would the smith willingly have sold out Merry Meg?
  3. Or not: Here, it is listed as retail gifts, in the name of the mother. If a rich enough landowner, like a Targaryen or, say, a Tytos Lannister, has enough land being disposable that he can make a gift equivalent of becoming a landed knight to another man´s wife, what does her title become? Not Ser, not Master, so Mistress of N? And since the gift is in her name, the cuckolded husband does not become a knight. (The shrew Mariya Darry did not become Lady of Darry, but if she had, this would not have made Merrett a knight). Right of first night might possibly work if the lords are willing to pay through nose for it, in terms of gifts and favours. Or creating a long term family bond like that of fostering/wardship. In that case, fathers might pimp their daughters to lords, and even grooms their own brides. And the custom of First Night provides certain limits to what is being sold. The lord gets one night, the groom the whole rest of honeymoon and the rest of married life. Depending on custom, the social obligations might still apply even if the lord can easily count that it was eleven months wedding to the birth of first child, or extend to subsequent children who are certainly not lord´s. That would be a kind of custom which could easily break down some time due to skimping and recriminations. Or break down in most places and stay extant in a few places blessed with a string of generous and honest lords.
  4. Are we ever clearly told which lord gets the right of first night? If a nobleman marries a commoner, which could never be really rare, like Podrick´s parents, is First Night owed or not? About bastardy: consider the heavy curse on a kinslayer, and the fate of Bael´s son. He was a bastard who honestly had no idea that Bael was his father, yet the curse operated by the fact of kinship. And now just imagine having a truculent vassal... who being the heir and eldest son of his "father" is possibly your bastard son from First Night. The risk of kinslaying is increased by uncertainty of paternity - your eldest son and heir loses a certain father, but gains a possible one, and one whose kinship may matter a lot!
  5. OK, an example of what really a sizable and prepared army can do against a wounded, near-flightless dragon: OK, but consider a healthy dragon, even if one smaller than Sunfyre? Two toddlers sleeping strapped to their saddle anyway, and one mother in her nervous sleep. Killing 60 attackers or burning their village is optional... All they want is notice an attack (whether with swords or pitchforks), and wake up enough to take flight. And then it´s their choice whether to flee a hundred leagues away immediately or also punish a bad surprise. Well, if there are a few attackers, killing all present may make sense - even if traces of dragon attack remain, it may be useful if it is unclear whether it was a ridden or a riderless dragon. If, as a small landed knight like ser Eustace, you hear a tall tale of a dragon having landed in Wat´s Wood, what are you going to do? Take your three knights and rush to the spot? Summon your eight smallfolk with their pitchforks? Send a messenger to Coldmoat? Can even Lady Webber mobilize her 33 men in the few hours before Rhaena takes flight again, and what are they going to achieve against Dreamfyre ready to fly that Mooton´s hundred knights could not achieve against Sunfyre unable to fly?
  6. Why should they have gone to a city at all? Stupid. A dragon is conspicuous. But a dragon is fast. If Rhaenyra could chase Syrax to Dragonstone and back as a day trip... A fugitive dragonrider can cover a hundred leagues in a day, or in the darkness of a night (Balerion attacked Harrenhal at dusk). A dragonrider getting overtaken by hunger, fatigue, dusk or dawn could pick a suitable campsite in ten leagues around. If she is worried about bad surprises, look at relatively forested areas, away from villages, lonely pastures, herds of sheep in outfields... Two one year olds should be possible to handle as "baggage". Sure, feeding two one year olds exclusively on roast mutton and milk of one mother is not quite balanced diet, especially if the mother has to feed on roast mutton alone as well. But consider the speed - in a week they´re in Dorne or past Rhoyne. If you see a small dragon flashing by in a hurry, what are you going to do? Tell a curious tall tale? By day, there will be a few people who also saw the dragon... scattered around the landscape. By night, with people asleep in houses, even the few that are up at night will have trouble seeing a dragon in sky. Though admittedly the dragonrider also has problems seeing where sheep are. People will talk... and then what? By the time you walk to the castle, the rider has eaten, slept and taken off. By the time your lord has sent a flock of ravens... how long will it take before any raven encounters Maegor or Visenya? If they do launch a wild goose chase, how much time do you think Maegor needs to search for the trail, while Rhaena is making straight ahead with a bit of zigzags to throw off pursuit... what´s the use of Maegor chasing to Yronwood and Visenya to Dayne while Rhaena gets to Fowler between them? A fugitive can fly anywhere, a pursuer cannot fly everywhere at the same time.
  7. The net outcome of Sowing was 4 successes and for these 4 successes 16 deaths, 48 injuries, unknown number of attempts failed uninjured (note that at least 2 deaths were not attempts, namely sons of Silver Denys). Considering that even after Addam was a dragonrider, a hero and a Velaryon, Corlys never dared claim that he himself impregnated Marilda while wed to Rhaenys, it is not clear how close he was to Marilda and his grand/sons as they grew up. If the commoner bastards with no recognition, no Waters surname, no pseudonymous cash apprenticing them as squires and "hedge knights" etc. decided to try and make themselves a name or die trying, did Corlys have either influence or concern to stop them?
  8. The law against first night was a secular law enacted by Queen Alysanne after Faith was booted out of the business of making and enforcing laws. What were the penalties defined? Any recipients of compensation? Procedural law for enforcement?
  9. Their own authorities, i. e. King, Master of Laws and lords? Sure. Faith courts? Questionable after Maegor. But they could have dealt with the claim another way. Jaehaerys could have married Aerea instead, and that would even have been a niece not sister. Not sure about that. Were the details of laws about family or royal consent secular or religious ones? If religious, they could not have been the same between Andals and First Men. Was Sansa's marriage to Tyrion valid? Sansa pointed out that family consent was needed. If lack of Robb's consent invalidated Sansa/Tyrion, did lack of Tywin's consent invalidate Tyrion/Tysha? Seven have High Septon as their voice on earth to annul marriages, Old gods don't.
  10. Who precisely owed First Night? And to whom? Just smallfolk? Or also nobles? When people of different lords intermarried, was first night owed to the lord of bride or lord of groom? Would a wedding in a Harrenhal domain owe First Night to Gargon the Guest, Edmyn Tully or Aegon Targaryen? If powerful lords were pushing for Targaryens to contract polygamous marriages to their daughters, or themselves in case of Queen Sharra Arryn, did any lords volunteer to invite a Targaryen to their own wedding for First Night? A child begotten in First Night is by the terms of the deal the child and, if a boy, the heir of the groom. With no inheritance rights towards the lord guest and his family. Did Faith hold any opinion about First Night? They celebrated the vows.
  11. Ptolemies were usually monogamous and incestuous... and did kill their full blood siblings, as well as their own children and parents. Late Walder Frey is monogamous, yet as we hear from Merrett, his sons do not get along all that well. And we do not actually hear Merrett reflecting much about assistance to be expected from Crakehalls, the family of his late mother. A bigger problem is that when a family has a surfeit of trueborn sons, they need not have too much market demand. Merrett was a fool, a cripple and a drunk. A head of family not as loyal as Walder or Stevron would have been better off making Merrett redundant and hiring a more competent outsider like ser Bronn at the market rates. Both are slightly different for Targaryens. As for polygyny, sororal polygyny eliminates the competing families. If Valaena Velaryon was in her late teens when she had Visenya, she would have been 55 when she had Aenys and 60 when she had Maegor. No reason to favour one or other while babysitting, both were equally her grandchildren. As for hiring mediocre family members, think of the dragons. A pair of seeing eyes and a human mind a furlong up, moving far faster than a horse, is useful even if the mind is childish or below average. And a Targaryen who is not actually a dragonrider is potentially a dragonrider in future as more dragons hatch or get orphaned, or parent of pure-blooded children fit to become hopefully smarter dragonriders.
  12. The point is to challenge the unsupported assertion that Faith Militant did not have choice. There are lords and secular knights (as in, landowning bannermen or long term employed household knights and short term employed hedge knights) who are more or less pious. And there were Warrior´s Sons, sworn to follow Faith for life. At Great Fork of Blackwater, the army of Faith was 20 000: 13 200 of Faith Militant (13 000 Poor Fellows, 200 Warrior´s Sons), 6800 of household knights and feudal levies of 12 lords, of whom 3 are named. Note that fighting at Green Fork means the 12 lords were pious, not that their household knights or feudal levies were. Aegon had landed at the head of 1600 men. Even at Field of Fire, it was just 5000. At Blackwater, Maegor commanded 20 000. With dragon approaching. They could have killed High Septon half a year before, as soon as Maegor summoned him to stand trial for treason. Or they could have avoided the "mysterious" death and come out on the side of dragons by giving High Septon the full Argella treatment - drag him naked, living and screaming curses at their impiety to face the judgement of Maegor and his sword or dragon and set a clear example of a High Septon tried and executed in cold blood. Only because he did not call himself king. The Valyrians were a ruling minority over Andal commoners, who had been followers of Faith before Valyrians arrived.
  13. It obviously does damage the office. Anybody who held out after High Septon Pater dissolved Faith Militant or rebelled in the end of Maegor´s rule was plainly dissenting from the then High Septon as the leader of their faith. Yet they remained Andals and believed in Faith. If there is a plain precedent of people who followed their conscience and what they undestood of the holy books of Faith and not the words of the man called High Septon by the Most Devout taken captive in Oldtown, it damaged the office. And not only for those who did resist. Because there must have been a lot of people who yielded because they did not want to lose, not because High Septon told them to, which he did - people who were with High Septon Pater but not actually for High Septon Pater. If Septon Murmison had had the foresight to tell Aenys "Please, Your Grace, if you prefer to keep to Valyrian customs not Andal ones in who your children marry, it is better to also keep to those Valyrian customs in how your children marry, like your brother did.", would Aenys have beheaded him for that?
  14. How were the third or less of the brethren who beheaded their brethren selected? Um? That High Septon was probably devout enough to not be fucking while a septon. About Ser Morgan - he did not go to Wall alongside his brethren. Did he behead any of them? And afterwards? Did he hang around as a household member in Hightower family? As such, did he marry and father trueborn children, which his vows had blocked? Maegor would not behead ravens, though he could leave them unanswered. But consider that there was a large number of lords who refused to join Faith rebellion at the head of their secular bannermen. Even Hightowers would not march. From the sons and brethren of great lords who chose death, 7 got the honour of being beheaded by Maegor. And only Ser Morgan got "full pardon". There were the leal lords who fought for Maegor early on, though we hear few high profile names. At Stonebridge, the royal army of "six lordly hosts" was commanded by one Loadows of Grassy Vale, apparently no lord himself. At Blackwater, the only lord named in royal army of 20 000 was Lord of Maidenpool - the second named hero was Big Jon Hogg. Note the imbalance - two hosts of equal size and royal one with twice as much armoured horse, yet the rebel host had 3 lords out of number of 12 total given, and 2 more named knights. If a Mootton as the hero of Blackwater approached Maegor on behalf of his second son or brother who was unwilling to fight against his birth family, regardless of vows to the contrary which he had given in good old times when there was no real prospect of having to keep those vows, and begged leave for the Warrior´s Son to get a royal pardon and join the victorious royal army as a household knight in the retinue of his lordly family head - thus bearing arms for Maegor rather than surrendering them - would even Maegor have beheaded his loyal hero for that request?