[Spoilers] The Princess and the Queen, complete spoilers discussion

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

So, I've read a fair portion of this thread, and I've seen a lot of question about Daemon's relationship with Nettles. Now, personally, up until I read this, I didn't even realize there might be a question of whether they were romantically linked. I saw something about maybe he was her father, but I'm not quite sure where that theory came from based on the story. I also think the Old Gods connection was pretty tenuous, but maybe I just missed the really compelling arguments... Having said that, I have a very love/hate relationship with Daemon, because he is such a BAMF, but he made me so angry when he got the letter from Rhaenyra and said something like "a queen's words, a whore's work." I thought, man, that's a really dick thing to say when you're out there screwing around on her, you giant hypocrite. If he wasn't banging Nettles, I suppose I won't be so mad at him for it. So I guess my question is, what do the majority of people think, that he was or wasn't romantically involved with her? And if people think he was her father, where did they get that idea from? I'm sorry, I ramble...

The idea that he was her father, came from the fact that they were very close, and that she was supposedly a dragonseed, meaning, a descendant from a Targaryen.

However, the thing to realise from tPatQ is that the questionable status of being or not being a Targaryen bastard might not be as important a factor when it comes down to riding a dragon.

The story is the work of a maester who wrote the account a 100 years after the events happened, and thus, everything he writes down is either information he received from other sources (other written accounts perhaps), or it's his own interpretation. This means that, should the maester writing the account think Daemon and Nettles were lovers, that's what he'd write. But there's not much about such their relationship at all, so it's hard to determine whether or not they were related, or whether or not they were lovers.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I suspect Nettles flew off with Daemon's natural daughter in her belly.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I suspect Nettles flew off with Daemon's natural daughter in her belly.

That would be awesome! But why daughter?

[Veltigar]

That would be awesome! But why daughter?

I'm guessing that LM thinks that it's a fitting origin story for Quaithe

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I'm guessing that LM thinks that it's a fitting origin story for Quaithe

Quaithe? I prefer Tanselle as Daemon's descendant for unknown reasons.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I'm guessing that LM thinks that it's a fitting origin story for Quaithe

Nope, a wife for a younger son of the Plumm born of the six-foot member.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Nope, a younger son of the Plumm born of the six-foot member.

And?

[Lost Melnibonean]

Nope, a wife for a younger son of the Plumm born of the six-foot member.

[Veltigar]

an ancestor for bbp then?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

wasn't Elaena the princess?

[Lost Melnibonean]

an ancestor for bbp then?

A couple more drops of Targaryen blood.

[Lost Melnibonean]

wasn't Elaena the princess?

She was probably the nice young gal that took that six-foot member.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

She was probably the nice young gal that took that six-foot member.

I just what it was to do with Daemon.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I just what it was to do with Daemon.

I am thinking that Netty had Daemon's natural daughter after she flew east on Sheepstealer and that daughter wed a Plumm in Essos...

Her captains bowed and left her with her handmaids and her dragons. But as Brown Ben was leaving, Viserion spread his pale white wings and flapped lazily at his head. One of the wings buffeted the sellsword in his face. The white dragon landed awkwardly with one foot on the man's head and one on his shoulder, shrieked, and flew off again. "He likes you, Ben " said Dany.

"And well he might." Brown Ben laughed. "I have me a drop of the dragon blood myself, you know."

"You?" Dany was startled. Plumm was a creature of the free companies, an amiable mongrel. He had a broad brown face with a broken nose and a head of nappy grey hair, and his Dothraki mother had bequeathed him large, dark, almond-shaped eyes. He claimed to be part Braavosi, part Summer Islander, part Ibbenese, part Qohorik, part Dothraki, part Dornish, and part Westerosi, but this was the first she had heard of Targaryen blood. She gave him a searching look and said, "How could that be?"

"Well," said Brown Ben, "there was some old Plumm in the Sunset Kingdoms who wed a dragon princess. My grandmama told me the tale. He lived in King Aegon's day."

"Which King Aegon?" Dany asked. "Five Aegons have ruled in Westeros." Her brother's son would have been the sixth, but the Usurper's men had dashed his head against a wall.

"Five, were there? Well, that's a confusion. I could not give you a number, my queen. This old Plumm was a lord, though, must have been a famous fellow in his day, the talk of all the land. The thing was, begging your royal pardon, he had himself a cock six foot long."

The three bells in Dany's braid tinkled when she laughed. "You mean inches, I think."

"Feet," Brown Ben said firmly. "If it was inches, who'd want to talk about it, now? Your Grace."

Dany giggled like a little girl. "Did your grandmother claim she'd actually seen this prodigy?"

"That the old crone never did. She was half-Ibbenese and half-Qohorik, never been to Westeros, my grandfather must have told her. Some Dothraki killed him before I was born."

"And where did your grandfather's knowledge come from?"

"One of them tales told at the teat, I'd guess." Brown Ben shrugged. "That's all I know about Aegon the Unnumbered or old Lord Plumm's mighty manhood, I fear. I best see to my Sons."

[Veltigar]

I am thinking that Netty had Daemon's natural daughter after she flew east on Sheepstealer and that daughter wed a Plumm in Essos...

Her captains bowed and left her with her handmaids and her dragons. But as Brown Ben was leaving, Viserion spread his pale white wings and flapped lazily at his head. One of the wings buffeted the sellsword in his face. The white dragon landed awkwardly with one foot on the man's head and one on his shoulder, shrieked, and flew off again. "He likes you, Ben " said Dany.

"And well he might." Brown Ben laughed. "I have me a drop of the dragon blood myself, you know."

"You?" Dany was startled. Plumm was a creature of the free companies, an amiable mongrel. He had a broad brown face with a broken nose and a head of nappy grey hair, and his Dothraki mother had bequeathed him large, dark, almond-shaped eyes. He claimed to be part Braavosi, part Summer Islander, part Ibbenese, part Qohorik, part Dothraki, part Dornish, and part Westerosi, but this was the first she had heard of Targaryen blood. She gave him a searching look and said, "How could that be?"

"Well," said Brown Ben, "there was some old Plumm in the Sunset Kingdoms who wed a dragon princess. My grandmama told me the tale. He lived in King Aegon's day."

"Which King Aegon?" Dany asked. "Five Aegons have ruled in Westeros." Her brother's son would have been the sixth, but the Usurper's men had dashed his head against a wall.

"Five, were there? Well, that's a confusion. I could not give you a number, my queen. This old Plumm was a lord, though, must have been a famous fellow in his day, the talk of all the land. The thing was, begging your royal pardon, he had himself a cock six foot long."

The three bells in Dany's braid tinkled when she laughed. "You mean inches, I think."

"Feet," Brown Ben said firmly. "If it was inches, who'd want to talk about it, now? Your Grace."

Dany giggled like a little girl. "Did your grandmother claim she'd actually seen this prodigy?"

"That the old crone never did. She was half-Ibbenese and half-Qohorik, never been to Westeros, my grandfather must have told her. Some Dothraki killed him before I was born."

"And where did your grandfather's knowledge come from?"

"One of them tales told at the teat, I'd guess." Brown Ben shrugged. "That's all I know about Aegon the Unnumbered or old Lord Plumm's mighty manhood, I fear. I best see to my Sons."

Unlikely imo. I think BBP had more than one drop of dragonblood because his ancestors mother was Elaene Targaryen and his real father was Aegon IV.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Unlikely imo. I think BBP had more than one drop of dragonblood because his mother was Elaene Targaryen and his real father was Aegon IV.

I know. I am thinking he has even more drops.

[Veltigar]

I know. I am thinking he has even more drops.

oh, okay then. I'll respectfully disagree on that matter :cheers:

[Arataniello]

Unlikely imo. I think BBP had more than one drop of dragonblood because his mother was Elaene Targaryen and his real father was Aegon IV.

If his mother was Elaena and his father Aemon IV, he would have plenty of drops of Targaryen blood, but absolutely no claim to the surname Plumm.

Plus, the generations are far too distant. BPP is far too alive to be a son of two Targs from five (rough estimate) generations ago.

[Veltigar]

If his mother was Elaena and his father Aemon IV, he would have plenty of drops of Targaryen blood, but absolutely no claim to the surname Plumm.

Plus, the generations are far too distant. BPP is far too alive to be a son of two Targs from five (rough estimate) generations ago.

Obviously, I wasn't talking about BBP parents, just like I know you are talking about Aegon IV and not Aemon IV. That was a mistake. BBP Plumm ancestor Viserys Plumm on the other hand was probably the child of Elaene and Aegon IV.

The whole point of the six-foot-long-cock story is that Elaene Targaryen's child Viserys wasn't the son of old Lord Plumm because he was dead at the time of conception. Ergo someone else must have fathered the child and since Tyrion told us that BBP has more than one drop of dragonblood there must be another Targaryen in play somewhere.

The most likely candidate is Viserys Plumm's father. And the most likely candidate for that is Aegon IV, a known letcher who would find it funny to fuck yet another niece and have a child to take over Plumm lands. Elaene needed a baby daddy to get control of the Plumm lands (if she hadn't been pregnant the estate would have gone to a relative of the Plumms and she would have been left empty handed) and who better than nymphomaniac Aegon IV. If there were Plumm relatives with complaints they would never be able to persuade Aegon IV to take action if it was his child.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

If his mother was Elaena and his father Aemon IV, he would have plenty of drops of Targaryen blood, but absolutely no claim to the surname Plumm.

Plus, the generations are far too distant. BPP is far too alive to be a son of two Targs from five (rough estimate) generations ago.

There is always the possibility that Elaena would be his mother and her true Velaryon aka dragonseed will be his father. 2 drops of dragon's blood.