The source of the Andals' name

[Lady Howell]

I don't know if this has ever been discussed or pointed out, but recently, in history class, we learned about Andalusia. A region of Spain that I guess you could imagine as similar in terrain to the Great Plains of the states, perfect grazing grounds for long horns.

Seeing as Spain is infamous for their exploration of the new world, plundering of it, and spreading a lot of their culture to it, its fair to say most of us have made the connection between the Andals as conquerors and the Spaniards.

However, the name has been a mystery to me until I learned the name of a region in Spain, Andalusia, which brought to the new world Texas's favorite livestock.

Andals=Andalusia. That's where the name comes from, I think.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Andalusia. Named after al-Andalus, the islamic state/states of shifting official names on spanish soil between the 8th and 15th century, introducing medicine, universities and a bunch of other cultural stuff to Europe.

It's closer to Andalos than Andalusia, isn't it?

By and large, both is a stretch.

[Lady Howell]

Andalusia. Named after al-Andalus, the islamic state/states of shifting official names on spanish soil between the 8th and 15th century, introducing medicine, universities and a bunch of other cultural stuff to Europe.

It's closer to Andalos than Andalusia, isn't it?

By and large, both is a stretch.

What? Dude, I wasn't drawing cutlural links between Andals and Andalusia. Just the name and the fact Andalusia is a region of Spain, which I feel was the major influence on the Andals. I mean, if you're going to base a conquering society that took over and spread their religion to a culture of, let's say, pagans, then its not such a big leap to derive their name from something Spanish. A region, a person, or word, for example.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister]

I think the name comes from British history. Andals sounds like Angles.

The Angles (Andals), a Germanic people, invaded Britain (Westeros) after the Romans left. They fought and also intermarried with the natives (First Men), this completely changed the language and culture of the UK (Seven Kingdoms).

In medieval Britain the people in England (the South) were more likely descended from the Angles (The 'Eng' in England comes from Angles), whilst the Scottish (the North) were seen as having more Celtic (First Men) blood.

Seems pretty similar to the Westerosi history, and GRRM has said that he gained a lot of inspiration from British history.

[Black November]

I thought he took the Vandals and omitted the V, especially because they are infamous for invading.

[asimetrikal]

I think the name comes from British history. Andals sounds like Angles.

The Angles (Andals), a Germanic people, invaded Britain (Westeros) after the Romans left. They fought and also intermarried with the natives (First Men), this completely changed the language and culture of the UK (Seven Kingdoms).

In medieval Britain the people in England (the South) were more likely descended from the Angles (The 'Eng' in England comes from Angles), whilst the Scottish (the North) were seen as having more Celtic (First Men) blood.

Seems pretty similar to the Westerosi history, and GRRM has said that he gained a lot of inspiration from British history.

this. and only this.

[Jak Scaletongue]

this. and only this.

I'd love to know how you're so certain it's "only this" - I don't see why it's impossible that George used a variety of inspirations for all sorts of names, places, settings, cultures, etc. It's entirely possible that all 3 of the above (Andals=Andalusia; Vandal=Andal; and Angle=Andal) served as inspiration for the Andals of Essos and Westeros. Unless of course, you are GRRM, and can tell us with absolute certainty that you DID just choose the Germanic invasions of Britain as your only source of inspiration. But I think it's been made clear that he's not following a single historical "script." He takes inspiration from multiple cultures, religions, names and places and smashes them together and we get to pick them apart. The War of the Five Kings resembles the War of the Roses, but it's not an exact copy. The Andals may have been inspired in part by the Angles, but they won't be (aren't) an exact copy.

I agree that Tall Tyrion's description is the major source of historic inspiration, but I also agree that Vandal=Andal sounds reasonable and may also have inspired the name of the tribe. Andalusia in Spain hadn't occurred to me though! Good catch! Their original area in Essos does sound similar in places to the Andalusian plains.

[Alester Florent]

The Andal homeland is called Andalos. The similarity to Al-Andalus (or Andalusia; they are both pretty obviously from the same root and refer to essentially the same place) is inescapable. Whether it's intentional or not is a different question, and without word from GRRM we'll never know.

Thematically they are probably more similar to the Anglo-Saxons, though the parallel isn't exact. The Romano-Brythonic Britain into which the Angles and Saxons arrived was much more advanced than the First Men appear to have been (well into the Iron Age, for starters). In some ways the Andals look a bit more like the Romans, or the Celtic Britons themselves. But inevitably the history of Westeros is rather simple compared to that of Britain.

[Ivan Tsarevich]

Didn't Andalusia derive it's name from Vandals in the migration period?

[Lykos]

Andalusia. Named after al-Andalus, the islamic state/states of shifting official names on spanish soil between the 8th and 15th century, introducing medicine, universities and a bunch of other cultural stuff to Europe.

It's closer to Andalos than Andalusia, isn't it?

By and large, both is a stretch.

Well Nymeria burning her ships on arrival in Dorne always reminded me of Cortés burning his ships (in reality he scuttled them), so bits of the spanish conquest might have been on Martin's mind. I think he's mixing names and characteristics of history. We know that he drew a lot of inspiration from the crusades, so Al - Andalus has certainly a lot of influence on the World of Ice and Fire.

This is off topic, but I think the greatest cultural contribution was the introduction of paper thereby providing a cheap (er) medium for administration and later the wide public impact of the printing press. They don't seem to use paper in Westeros (I know the term is used), but only parchment, skins and vellum.

With regard to the characteristics of Andal Society I mostly agree with Tall Tyrion

I think the name comes from British history. Andals sounds like Angles.

The Angles (Andals), a Germanic people, invaded Britain (Westeros) after the Romans left. They fought and also intermarried with the natives (First Men), this completely changed the language and culture of the UK (Seven Kingdoms).

In medieval Britain the people in England (the South) were more likely descended from the Angles (The 'Eng' in England comes from Angles), whilst the Scottish (the North) were seen as having more Celtic (First Men) blood.

Seems pretty similar to the Westerosi history, and GRRM has said that he gained a lot of inspiration from British history.

Martin has used the name Steel Angels in his Thousand Worlds syfy series, where they were a group of religios fanatics of a martial cult, but not really a tribe. And the Angles and Saxons didn't impose their religion on the romanised Celts in Britain, but the other way round.

[Bran the Bringer]

Didn't Andalusia derive it's name from Vandals in the migration period?

 Yes that is correct "Al-Andalusia" = " Land of the Vandals" from the Arabic languages of the time. When the Vandals finally stopped migrating they settled in Spain and North Africa and ruled there until successive waves of Arabized Berber peoples conqured North Africa and much of Southern Spain. The Kings of Aragon were noted for their Vandal Descent.

[Bran the Bringer]

The Andal homeland is called Andalos. The similarity to Al-Andalus (or Andalusia; they are both pretty obviously from the same root and refer to essentially the same place) is inescapable. Whether it's intentional or not is a different question, and without word from GRRM we'll never know.

 

Thematically they are probably more similar to the Anglo-Saxons, though the parallel isn't exact. The Romano-Brythonic Britain into which the Angles and Saxons arrived was much more advanced than the First Men appear to have been (well into the Iron Age, for starters). In some ways the Andals look a bit more like the Romans, or the Celtic Britons themselves. But inevitably the history of Westeros is rather simple compared to that of Britain.

 

I don't think we'll ever see any 1:1 analogs between real historical peoples and any peoples of Planetos and rightfully so, they are a fictional peoples after all. To try and find similarities is natural and I'm sure GRRM did the same. It certainly "feels" a more believable story if there are cultural and historical analogs that make sense to us from our perspectives.

 

Drawing on source material and other mentions in GRRM interviews it seems clear much of this story draw its inspiration from British History. The "Game of Thrones" political side has it roots there as he has made clear and even much of the more fantasical, magical elements have their inspiratons there as well.

 

So a perfect 1:1 analog it is not, but its is certainly the best inference to draw based on the authors words.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

As far as I know, Andalos doesn't have awesome and beautiful horses.

 

It is known (not in the Dothraki BS way) that the George started out his worldbuilding for Westeros based on medieval England, and then branched out from there.  That's why the Angles/Andals thing makes sense.  But actually the Vandals minus the V also makes sense linguistically.  

 

Now for the important question: do either the Angles, the Vandals, or the Andalusians have a prophecy about a land promised to them that they will find across the sea? 

[Nuncle Karstark]

For its length, this thread has been resurrected more times than Elvis.

[Annara Snow]

 

I don't think we'll ever see any 1:1 analogs between real historical peoples and any peoples of Planetos and rightfully so, they are a fictional peoples after all. To try and find similarities is natural and I'm sure GRRM did the same. It certainly "feels" a more believable story if there are cultural and historical analogs that make sense to us from our perspectives.

 

Drawing on source material and other mentions in GRRM interviews it seems clear much of this story draw its inspiration from British History. The "Game of Thrones" political side has it roots there as he has made clear and even much of the more fantasical, magical elements have their inspiratons there as well.

 

So a perfect 1:1 analog it is not, but its is certainly the best inference to draw based on the authors words.

 

Not just British history. For starters, Martin is a huge fan of Maurice Druon's Les rois maudits (The Accursed Kings) historical fiction series and has mentioned it as one of his influences, and that one is about French history (though it does touch on the English history, since of the major characters is queen Isabella, daughter of Philip Le Bel, queen consort of England as the wife of Edward II and mother of Edward III).

 

In addition, in spite of all the various parallels with the Wars of the Roses, people have also noticed the similarity to the French Armagnac-Burgundian civil war. Can you guess what the sigils of the two warring houses in that war were? 

[LadyStoneHearte]

There were people living on an island. After a few thousand years, people from across the sea invaded. They intermarried and established their own kingdom's with the natives after a long period of war, but the natives became prevalent in certain parts of the country, specifically the North. After a period of these individual kingdoms which traded, married, and fought among themselves, another invading army came from across the sea and conquered the island except for the North, establishing a monarchy that would rule for centuries.

 

This is British history. This is also Westerosi history. The wall is Hadrians wall, the First men are the Celtic peoples, the Andals are the Angles/Saxons, the Targaryens are the Normans, the Wildlings are the Scots.