Reasons why Jon would be a good king.

[LC Jaime Lannister]

No, the claim is that Jon would make a good leader because he can be interpreted to align to facets of Plato's writing.

Unless, for some reason, you think that Plato's brand of philosophy isn't merely a philosophy but a universal truth of existence, the burden is on the person making the claim. Not the one challenging it.

That is different. You were saying that because this is fictional, it does not apply. <-- Claim

Now you are challenging whether or his philosophy is correct. I really know little of it and have little interest in going to deep into it.

[Minsc]

except being blind to the fact that Thorne never cared to actually do much teaching. Qhorin would have been a far superior master at arms. The only reason he wasnt was because of how amazing of a ranger he was.

I was generally be sarcastic, about if Thorne is this terrible Master-at-Arms then it speaks poorly on Jeor that he appointed and kept Thorne as Master-at-Arms for so long despite his lack of skill in that regards.

[Berkilak]

That is different. You were saying that because this is fictional, it does not apply. <-- Claim

Now you are challenging whether or his philosophy is correct. I really know little of it and have little interest in going to deep into it.

Eh, you jumped into the middle of the conversation. It's an understandable misunderstanding.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

In my view, it was better to have a harsh man to simply teach that such harshness exists and let the warriors arise from that rather than cripple your active force by depriving it of its most able member. Would it have been wiser to have a weak man teach them, if he happened to be a good teacher?

it would be better to find a harsh man who actually is willing to give proper training. Qhorin would have been a great choice, though his duties as a ranger may take him from tutelage every once and awhile.

[aceluby]

it would be better to find a harsh man who actually is willing to give proper training. Qhorin would have been a great choice, though his duties as a ranger may take him from tutelage every once and awhile.

Those who can't do, teach.

Those who can't teach, become master's at arms.

[Berkilak]

it would be better to find a harsh man who actually is willing to give proper training. Qhorin would have been a great choice, though his duties as a ranger may take him from tutelage every once and awhile.

Well, obviously. But no much man existed, that we know of. And if such a person of note was available, he probably would have played into the story in some capacity, thereby allowing us to say that Jeor did not make an ideal decision. But since such a person, who was both able and available, did not exist to our knowledge, I think the choice he made was a fair one.

I don't like Thorne. At all. But I do realize that he was a good choice given the nature of the Night's Watch.

[Nictarion]

Those 'long time high ranking officers of the watch' wanted Jon gone before he was even LC. It has nothing to do with him 'hurting the watch'. In fact, I'd say the stabbing of Jon was done illegally, since I don't think he broke the NW vows since he and the watch were threatened w/ war and murder of the LC.

Marsh seemed to feel pretty bad about stabbing Jon, hence the tears. If it was only about hating Jon, and not worrying about the NW, why the tears?

Edit: just to be clear, I don't agree with what Marsh did, but looking from his pov I can see why he did it. That being said if Wun Wun rips his arms off I won't be to upset.

[Ours if the Fury]

Reasons for him not being a good king...

He is an idiot...

[Martini Sigil]

Reasons for him not being a good king...

He is an idiot...

I respectfully disagree. He's young, sure... but the ability to see the bigger picture where it concerns the Wights being the real threat, and doing his best to facilitate the senseless hostility with the wildlings and coordinating with Stannis... Jon seems to be the only person in Westeros who has any sense of diplomacy. Not to mention his baby swapping manuever and having the brains to realize that Sam would be an awesome measter.... with a little seasoning i think Jon would be the best of all possible choices

[Nictarion]

I respectfully disagree. He's young, sure... but the ability to see the bigger picture where it concerns the Wights being the real threat, and doing his best to facilitate the senseless hostility with the wildlings and coordinating with Stannis... Jon seems to be the only person in Westeros who has any sense of diplomacy. Not to mention his baby swapping manuever and having the brains to realize that Sam would be an awesome measter.... with a little seasoning i think Jon would be the best of all possible choices

I like Jon, but the baby swap didn't sit well with me. He should have stood up to Stannis and reminded him he was LC of the NW, and no children would be burned at his castle.

[Ours if the Fury]

I like Jon, but the baby swap didn't sit well with me. He should have stood up to Stannis and reminded him he was LC of the NW, and no children would be burned at his castle.

Yes, and now the fact that he (lord commander) is going to get involved in the Wo5K shows that he is foolish!!!, he knows better then most that the nights watch dont get involved

[Arya Targaryen]

, he knows better then most that the nights watch dont get involved

Except now is the time the NW has to get involved. They cannot solve the ice zombie apocalypse on their own. And Stannis being there put them in a situation they couldn't escape. It's easy to say, that Jon should have stood up to Stannis and tell him to f*ck off, because the Watch takes no part, but guess what would have happened... Stan executes Jon (he outnumbers the Watch), makes them choose another LC, who will do exactly what he wanted. Slynt probably wouldn't have had the balls (and the intelligence) to keep the castles for the Watch, he would have given it away to Stannis' knights.

[Nictarion]

Except now is the time the NW has to get involved. They cannot solve the ice zombie apocalypse on their own. And Stannis being there put them in a situation they couldn't escape. It's easy to say, that Jon should have stood up to Stannis and tell him to f*ck off, because the Watch takes no part, but guess what would have happened... Stan executes Jon (he outnumbers the Watch), makes them choose another LC, who will do exactly what he wanted. Slynt probably wouldn't have had the balls (and the intelligence) to keep the castles for the Watch, he would have given it away to Stannis' knights.

I don't think Stannis would execute Jon. He is very hung up on law, and honor for something like that. If Jon would have stood up to him he likely would have grinded his teeth a bunch, and accepted Jon's decision.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

I don't think Stannis would execute Jon. He is very hung up on law, and honor for something like that. If Jon would have stood up to him he likely would have grinded his teeth a bunch, and accepted Jon's decision.

True Stannis is honorable he would have accepted Jon's decision, no way he will kill him.

[Arya Targaryen]

I don't think Stannis would execute Jon. He is very hung up on law, and honor for something like that. If Jon would have stood up to him he likely would have grinded his teeth a bunch, and accepted Jon's decision.

And would have gone... exactly where? He cannot go back south. If Jon doesn't provide food and weapon for him to attack the Boltons, he would have stayed... eating up the food of the Watch. No way Jon could have kicked him out. Stannis may be honorable, but he is practical, too. And, for some reasons, being the rightful king, he thinks he can do whatever he wants at CB.

[Nictarion]

And, for some reasons, being the rightful king, he thinks he can do whatever he wants at CB.

Because Jon let him think that. I don't think Jeor would have been so easy to push around.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

Stannis wouldn't have killed Jon, no question but Stannis wasn't leaving. The NW was outnumbered, unequipped, and undertrained and of Jon said "Well thanks brah brah, but ya gotta go." Stannis would have grounded his teeth and said "Do I now?!"(sarcastically) and then

He will have gestured to his men lookin all badass and shit. Jon had no say in what Stannis and his army did.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

Stanislaw wouldn't have killed Jon, no question but Stannis wasn't leaving. The NW was outnumbered, unequipped, and undertrained and of Jon said "Well thanks brah brah, but ya gotta go." Stannis would have grounded his teeth and said "Do I now?!"(sarcastically) and then

He will feature to his men lookin all badass and shit. Jon had no say in what Stannis and his army did.

This.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

Ok apparently my autocorrect change Stannis to Stannislaw. Weird.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

Ok apparently my autocorrect change Stannis to Stannislaw. Weird.

Stannislaw is pretty badass name.